Vaarsuvius in Start of Darkness!? (Spoilers)

[Euron]

Okay, so I was doing a reread of my compilations, and I found something that made me nearly fall out of my chair.

In SOD, during Eugene's visit with Roy (that is spliced with the same scene in Origin), we see his flashback to the story of Fyron. When his story gets to the introduction of the conflict with Xykon, we're told that he (Xykon) stole something from his private exhibit; what was stole isn't made completely clear (at the time), but during that flashback we see a scene with a few people in his exhibit (page 21, panel 2): Xykon, being one of them, and one of the other notables being an elf (seen from behind, wearing V's identical outfit, the circlet, the cloak, the robe, same hairstyle). (on a minor note, you can see the crown itself in the case in the bottom right of the same panel, I just noticed that at the same time)

Is this a coincidence? Am I going crazy? Please, can someone else look this up?

Though even if it is him, does that mean anything? Surely he wouldn't remember a passing face like Xykon, but obviously he would remember Fyron, right?

[Grey Watcher]

Okay, so I was doing a reread of my compilations, and I found something that made me nearly fall out of my chair.

In SOD, during Eugene's visit with Roy (that is spliced with the same scene in Origin), we see his flashback to the story of Fyron. When his story gets to the introduction of the conflict with Xykon, we're told that he (Xykon) stole something from his private exhibit; what was stole isn't made completely clear (at the time), but during that flashback we see a scene with a few people in his exhibit (page 21, panel 2): Xykon, being one of them, and one of the other notables being an elf (seen from behind, wearing V's identical outfit, the circlet, the cloak, the robe, same hairstyle). (on a minor note, you can see the crown itself in the case in the bottom right of the same panel, I just noticed that at the same time)

Is this a coincidence? Am I going crazy? Please, can someone else look this up?

Though even if it is him, does that mean anything? Surely he wouldn't remember a passing face like Xykon, but obviously he would remember Fyron, right?

I assumed it was V as well. So yeah, V probably knows who Fyron is, but even if he does, it doesn't seem to matter much. Either V knows the full story behind Roy's quest to destroy Xykon, in which case he doesn't seem terribly upset about it, or he doesn't know, in which case... well, he doesn't know.

I think it was just a little extra Rich threw in there to remind the reader that elves tend to be old....

[RMS Oceanic]

It would be interesting if (s)he and Xykon had a chat after the tour:

:vaarsuvius:: Ah, a most enlightening tour from a fellow well learned in the arcane ways, wouldn't you agree?
:xykon:: Uh, sure...
:vaarsuvius:: Of course, I could never see the point in directing excessive time in mastery of illusions, when mighty magic can just pass harmlessly through it and vanquish whatever real threat lies behind it.
:xykon:: I hear ya.
:vaarsuvius:: I mean, the problem with illusionists is that they're all obsessed with appearance, when the only thing that matters is the might of your spells. Take that crown he had: what's the point? It doesn't even grant a bonus to spellcraft checks! It even looks a bit tacky...
:xykon:: I dunno, I kinda liked it.
:vaarsuvius:: Then strive to possess your own, my human friend, for I'll have no part in it. Good day. *Walks away*
:xykon:: "Possess my own", eh? Sounds like a good idea...

:smallbiggrin:

[Vagnarok]

Oh man, this is a really cool detail.

I bet V was too wound up in his/her own ideas to notice though.

[Nerdanel]

Maybe Xykon's crown is a major artifact or was the item familiar of some dead sorcerer of bygone ages. In that case V might be the only person in the world to do things like say to Durkon, "No, don't hit him with a heal. His crown makes him immune to positive energy attacks."

I think at the very least the crown increases charisma, making Xykon's spellcasting more powerful. I think it was that property of the crown that allowed Xykon to use the crown to pick up women at a bar. It's probably some less-used bonus type too, allowing for Xykon's cloak to be a standard cloak of charisma and for the crown's charisma bonus to stack on top of that.

[Finwe]

The crown is not magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html).

[Lira]

The crown is not magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html).As far as he knows...

[Hydro Globus]

He is a lich sorcerer, I think we can trust :xykon: in this.

[Jan Mattys]

The crown is not magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html).

Maybe.
Or maybe Xykon is a liar.

[Kaytara]

As far as he knows...

Or rather, as far as he is willing to tell Roy. Chances are, it's either exactly how he says it is and the crown is there just for show, or it's a critically powerful magic item, in which case he has a very good reason not to tell the good guys about it.

As for V being in that panel.... Well, if there's one thing it indicates, it's that (minor Origins spoiler) V may not be as young as ve says ve is. Eugene grew to be about 70 years old and the Fyron incident happened when he was about in his twenties, i.e. about 40-50 years before the events of the comic. V is supposedly about 103 or 130, according to Origins and Blues respectively (by the way, I just noticed that ve's age in Blues is '130?', with a question mark), and is said to have studied as an apprentice to Aarindarius until age 100. Either way, fifty years ago V would have still been a teenaged apprentice. I suppose you could assume a research trip to Cliffport or somesuch but the impression from the books is that V basically just stayed holed up in that tower in the realm of the elves, far away from human lands, which was the reason Aarindarius kicked ve out.

That, combined with V being married at an astonishingly young age (for elves), especially for someone leading such an asocial lifestyle, and the conspicuous question mark after the 130, makes me very suspicious about V's history.

EDIT: In other news, it looks like Frudu might also be in that panel. :)

[Nerdanel]

I think the "Badass... REALLY badass." line is purposefully ambiguous. There are many ways to interpret that sentence, one of which is "Is deadly in combat... Is REALLY deadly in combat." Not just badass appearance, but badass powers and special qualities. It is also noteworthy that appearance is linked to charisma, which is Xykon's casting stat.

[Raging Gene Ray]

That, combined with V being married at an astonishingly young age (for elves), especially for someone leading such an asocial lifestyle, and the conspicuous question mark after the 130, makes me very suspicious about V's history.


Are you implying a drug-addled past of some sort? Perhaps implying that V might have been planning on stealing the same crown in order to fence it for Sannish, Mordayn Vapor, or whatever the junkies in the OotS-iverse crave?

[Kaytara]

Are you implying a drug-addled past of some sort? Perhaps implying that V might have been planning on stealing the same crown in order to fence it for Sannish, Mordayn Vapor, or whatever the junkies in the OotS-iverse crave?

Yes, that is it. You have perfectly gleaned my true intentions. Have a cookie.

...

Damn it, why do I often feel like quoting OotS characters whenever it's convenient? XDDD
On a more serious note, I haven't the slightest idea. I just think that V may well be several decades older than ve says ve is.

[David Argall]

The idea has been suggested several times in the past. However, it is rather unlikely. There are loads of elves in the world, and no reason to think V was in the area.
From plot purposes, what good would this do? Despite being around the crown for months, it would appear V never so much as tested it for magic, nor remarked that he had seen it before. How is she supposed to use this relationship now?

Where costs are a consideration, actors may play several minor roles in a play, which sorta might be what happened here. Our artist wanted an elf in the picture and a picture of V could be slapped in a lot easier than making a new one. Any resemblance to V would then be something to ignore.

[Mauve Shirt]

This idea has come up a few times. If that was V, he would probably have been able to recognize the crown when Roy took it.

[Nerdanel]

The world is full of crowns. V might never have made the connection to that one crown he saw one day several decades ago. He might only know that Xykon stole the crown from Fyron but not know or remember that Fyron had been the name of the owner of that particular museum.

[whitelaughter]

Xykon is a Sorcerer, so his spells run off Charisma. If the crown makes him 'look cool' then it may be increasing his Charisma.
Still, I do like the idea that the entire mess started over a non-magical trinket! It fits so well with Xykon's personality.

[Kaytara]

The idea has been suggested several times in the past. However, it is rather unlikely. There are loads of elves in the world, and no reason to think V was in the area.
From plot purposes, what good would this do? Despite being around the crown for months, it would appear V never so much as tested it for magic, nor remarked that he had seen it before. How is she supposed to use this relationship now?


That is somewhat weak. While there may be lots of elves in the world, most of them do tend to stay holed up in the Elven Lands. If I'm not mistaken, the green-haired elf Belkar just killed may have been the first elf other than Vaarsuvius that we've run into during the entire comic. (Flashbacks and mental constructs don't count.)

Thus, when an elf shows up who looks exactly like Vaarsuvius from behind, it's not that far out there to assume that it IS Vaarsuvius rather than a peculiar doppelganger.

As for what good it would do for the plot... As I mentioned, V's age seems like it will be a key plot point later on. The way V's age is given in Blues ('130?') makes it seem like Rich doesn't want us to be able to accuse him of giving false information if/when? V's true age is revealed later. This might be just another hint in that direction.

As for the crown... As Nerdanel said, there are lots of crowns and the one Xykon nabbed doesn't look all that unique and memorable, either.

If I'm not mistaken, Roy never mentioned Fyron and the origins of that crown directly in V's presence, either. So we do not actually know what associations Fyron's name would awaken in V. (Although, chances are, none at all, since there is obviously a whole bunch of people named Fyron in Cliffport at least.)

It probably IS magical, though. I doubt something that merely looked good would merit a place in Fyron's personal library/exhibition.

[Istari]

There was a elven archer in the bandit camp arc

[ZiggyGuy]

About the crown being magical, I still find weird that the crown was detected as "evil aligned", and the one holding it too...
Is there any evidence of that happening to non-magical objects?

[Latch]

Ziggy, I think this just goes to show how evil Xykon is. He wore the crown for a long time, and his evil aura managed to rub off on it. I don't think that the evil aura is the same as magical auras, which might also rub off on non-magical things, come to think of it...

Anyway, I think that evil auras can rub off on anything.

I also think that the crown is completely mundane and has nothing to do with stats at all. Xykon thought it looked "badass" and so stole it from Fyron, whom he killed in the process. This is what started the entire feud. This fits, as we know Xykon to be an arrogant, evil sorcerer who gets what he wants in the end.

[ZiggyGuy]

Yeh, I saw that on the comic... still kinda doesn't work for me..

[Kaytara]

I also think that the crown is completely mundane and has nothing to do with stats at all. Xykon thought it looked "badass" and so stole it from Fyron, whom he killed in the process. This is what started the entire feud. This fits, as we know Xykon to be an arrogant, evil sorcerer who gets what he wants in the end.

We know why Xykon supposedly stole it - although, as a Chaotic Evil Big Bad with ranks in Bluff, whether he was telling the full truth is anyone's guess.

However, why would a mundane, completely non-magical old crown be on display in the library of a renown wizard?

(I like the idea that maybe the crown just gives the wearer an obscenely high boost to Charisma, which would fit Xykon's comment and his influence on barmaids.)

[Evil DM Mark3]

OMG this is all a Xanatos Gambit by V to gain access to the portals, destroy creation, slay the gods and then create a new universe in his own image![/crazy-pot theory]

[Zevox]

However, why would a mundane, completely non-magical old crown be on display in the library of a renown wizard?
Perhaps the same reason it would be on display anywhere else? Being a valuable item, perhaps with historical or sentimental value. Perhaps the wizard was a friend of the previous owner. There could be any number of reasons, really.

Zevox

[David Argall]

We know why Xykon supposedly stole it - although, as a Chaotic Evil Big Bad with ranks in Bluff, whether he was telling the full truth is anyone's guess.

For a crazed egomaniac, Xykon has been quite truthful. He's not above telling a lie when it helps him, but for the most part, he is pretty open and honest about his desire to have you die in agony.
And we can't really see much reason for him to lie here. At that point, he was assuming he would just kill Roy when he got bored talking with him. Even if he was already thinking of letting Roy flee, there seems little reason to worry about Roy knowing about the crown. It clearly provides no vital benefit. Xykon functions fine without it.

[Euron]

Maybe it's a second phylactery. That's why it registered as "Evil" to the DE. DUN DUN DUN

[Nerdanel]

For a crazed egomaniac, Xykon has been quite truthful. He's not above telling a lie when it helps him, but for the most part, he is pretty open and honest about his desire to have you die in agony.
And we can't really see much reason for him to lie here. At that point, he was assuming he would just kill Roy when he got bored talking with him. Even if he was already thinking of letting Roy flee, there seems little reason to worry about Roy knowing about the crown. It clearly provides no vital benefit. Xykon functions fine without it.

Xykon is smart enough to lie when it's in his interest. For example, I don't think anyone believed him when he told Tsukiko that he got that headband (Dorukan's) from his morning cereal. There is also the matter of the ring of positive energy resistance that wasn't, if the ring was indeed the same V later identified as a ring of wizardry.

On the other hand, can anyone point to an example of Xykon revealing a crucial weakness or information that could be used to create a weakness (such as knowledge which item to steal/sunder) to an enemy or an uncertain ally?

[Hydro Globus]

I think Xykon didn't lie.

1.) Roy said "magical crown", Xykon had no way of knowing if Roy made sure.
2.) Xykon likes to brag. If he doesn't have any reasons to withhold the truth, he will tell.
3.) He had no such reason. He didn't even know who was this "Bluepommel" guy.

[Latch]

I completely agree.:smallsmile:

[silvadel]

Interesting -- thing is it wouldnt give V any interesting info because Xykon almost certainly didnt say his name there, the crown was just one of many artifacts on the tour and not something that would interest V, and the only depiction of Xykon the OOTS has seen is as a lich -- so even if V would recognize Xykon in the flesh, such is meaningless.

[Ramien]

The crown's not magical, and hence, below V's interest, so it's little surprise the elf doesn't recall it.

And for all those people saying the crown is somehow magical, I doubt it. It was hard-won loot at the end of an adventure, which means it's been subjected to detect magic at least once, and identify if it showed up as being at all magical.

[Tempest Fennac]

I like the idea of V and Xykon having that discussion.:smallbiggrin: I have to agree with David about Xykon probably being truthful about the crown not being magical due to how Xykon would proably think that it wouldn't matter if Roy knew what it did.