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josh13905
2008-11-27, 03:02 PM
:smallsmile:My party will probably contain a githzerai monk, a rogue fighter, a paladin (me) and one other person. i was wondering how to make paladin the books available to me are:
Player handbook, Complete Adventurer, Complete arcane and Divine, Monster manual, Monster manual 2, Dungeon master guide, Pl;ayer handbook 2, dungeonscape, complete scoundrel, and Complete warrior.

i would info such as feats, Equipment and especially race.
Please Any help would be apreciated:smallsmile:

A Smart Person is not always a Wise One.

mikej
2008-11-27, 03:13 PM
Since you have enough melee I would focus on healing mainly, since you have dungeonscape on the list you may want to check out the divine spirit variant of the paladin

Keld Denar
2008-11-27, 03:16 PM
How "paladin" do you want to be?

Lots of choices. You can be a mounted charger (high damage, especially if you go halfling or gnome so you can have a medium sized mount).

I like PA and Divine Might (CWarrior) on almost all of my paladins. Very good tactic.

Sorcadin and Bardadin are both very good ideas. Sorcerous casting on top of Paladin defense can make a strong buff n beat style "gish" character, and tricking out Inspire Courage on a Bard/Paladin blend using Devoted Performer (CAdventurer) is good.

Moar info plz!

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-27, 03:17 PM
Dynamic Priest (Eberron Dragonlance)

Dynamic Priest [General]

Your self-confidence and force of personality are the foundations of your faith.

Benefit: For purposes of determining bonus divine spells per day and maximum divine spell level, your primary spellcasting ability is Charisma. If you have more than one divine spellcasting class, the bonus applies to only one of those classes. Your spell save DC's are not affected by this change.

Akisa
2008-11-27, 03:31 PM
Cleric with Divine Meta Magic Persistent Spell! Sorry I had to say it before someone else say it.

Kyeudo
2008-11-27, 03:34 PM
The monk will be useless (LA race and Monks? enough said), the rogue will need help flanking, and whoever else is going to be playing had better be a batman wizard.

With your paladin, you are going to spend the early levels covering for the rest of the party in combat. Later on, you'll have some spells to self buff and will be expected to be the damage sponge.

For stats, you'll want a 14 Wisdom (all you ever need for spellcasting), then focus on Strength, Charisma, and Constitution. Dump stat Int and Dex, since you arn't a skill monkey class and you have access to heavy armor.

You wont have that many skill points to sling around, so decide early if you want the mount or not. If you are going to have the mount, you'll want (19-Dex mod) ranks in Ride. Otherwise, go with skills like Sense Motive, Diplomacy, or Knowledge (Religion). You shouldn't be casting spells often, so you can dump Concentration if you have to.

Feat-wise, you can't go wrong with Power Attack or other feats that improve your damage. Extra Smite might help keep you smiting evil early on. If you get the mount, Mounted Combat and Spirited Charge can do good things for you.

Look at some possible PrCs to go into later on in levels and start lining up for it early.

Kyeudo
2008-11-27, 03:36 PM
Again, Dynamic Priest. Put a 10 in Wis and pump Cha.

Which book is that out of?

josh13905
2008-11-27, 03:52 PM
Haven't actually started campaign yet but am working on it to be ready. we are going to begin at 3rd level because monk has level adjustment +2
What Do you mean a race and monk???

How do you quote people?

Probably going to use 25 point buy because it is the fairest method but ill let you know when i do. Id like some scores please if you would

Which is better having a mount or not (Assuming i can use my mount where i go???)

Thinking about being a Aasimar with level adjustment +1 is that a good idea or would it not be as good as actual paladin levels?

I don't really want to be a sorcerer paladin or a bard paladin but thanks for your opinion. I think we will have plenty of fighting capability should i scrap it and go with a cleric?

Roderick_BR
2008-11-27, 03:53 PM
Obligatory feat: Battle Blessing. All your paladin spells that can be quickened are always quickened. It allows you to heal or buff yourself or an ally, and still lay down the hurt.
If you want to keep going into melee, I suggest taking Power Attack and the tactical feat Awesome Smite, that gives you special abilities like not suffer miss chance (like from a blur effect), or to ignore some DR when smiting. Extra Smites are a must in this case.
Finally, check the Divine Feats like Divine Might or Divine Shield, that adds your charisma to your damage rolls, and shield's shield bonus, respectively. Since your turning is slightly weaker than a cleric's, spending them on special powers is never a bad plan.

I don't remember well, but I think these feats can be found in the Complete Divine, Complete Champion, and Complete Adventurer books.

Edit:
Battle Blessing and Awesome Smite: Complete Champion.
Divine Might and Divine Shield are on the SRD/Players's Handbook. Do'h

Also, if you have feats to spend, some reserve feats can be nice to complement your spellcasting (Complete Champion, Complete Divine, among others), like Touch of Healing, that allows you to pretty much keep your group above half their maximum HP everytime you have time to rest. Not needed if you already have a capable caster in your group.

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-27, 03:54 PM
Which book is that out of?

All I know is that it's an Eberron [General] Feat. Seen it mentioned. I have the text quoted in the first post I made on this thread.

Kyeudo
2008-11-27, 04:04 PM
All I know is that it's an Eberron [General] Feat. Seen it mentioned. I have the text quoted in the first post I made on this thread.

I own all the Eberron sourcebooks out there except Dragons of Eberron and I've never run across it. That feat would be extremely useful, so I'd like to track it down.

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-27, 04:07 PM
I own all the Eberron sourcebooks out there except Dragons of Eberron and I've never run across it. That feat would be extremely useful, so I'd like to track it down.

Huh.... upon further investigation, the Spirit Shaman handbook says it's a Dragonlance (Legacy of the Twins) feat.

My mistake.

Mephit
2008-11-27, 04:25 PM
Haven't actually started campaign yet but am working on it to be ready. we are going to begin at 3rd level because monk has level adjustment +2

LA is bad as it is in most cases. Monk is a relatively weak class. So by losing Class levels, the monk handicaps himself even more mechanically.[/quote]



Which is better having a mount or not (Assuming i can use my mount where i go???)

Why wouldn't you take a mount? :smallconfused:
Unless you're talking about class variants, I can't see why you'd let it pass.


Thinking about being a Aasimar with level adjustment +1 is that a good idea or would it not be as good as actual paladin levels?

I'm tempted to say 'Take lesser aasimar', but that's not on your list. It's a decent pick I think, with stat boosters to your important mental stats. But you should always be wary of LA. That's 1d10 less HP, -1 BAB, and perhaps some powerful class feature 1 level later. It also affects your smites. So think it over well: Is that measly +1 mod to your Wis and Cha worth that?

KillianHawkeye
2008-11-27, 04:26 PM
Divine Vigor is a pretty decent feat from one of the Complete X books (I forget which one). It helps your move speed and lasts a minute per your Wisdom bonus IIRC.

Only be an Aasimar if you care about pumping up your Charisma for the max benefit from the Paladin's divine grace and smite damage. Otherwise, it's not worth it unless your DM is allowing LA buyback.

Akisa
2008-11-27, 04:30 PM
Haven't actually started campaign yet but am working on it to be ready. we are going to begin at 3rd level because monk has level adjustment +2
What Do you mean a race and monk???

How do you quote people?

Probably going to use 25 point buy because it is the fairest method but ill let you know when i do. Id like some scores please if you would

Which is better having a mount or not (Assuming i can use my mount where i go???)

Thinking about being a Aasimar with level adjustment +1 is that a good idea or would it not be as good as actual paladin levels?

I don't really want to be a sorcerer paladin or a bard paladin but thanks for your opinion. I think we will have plenty of fighting capability should i scrap it and go with a cleric?

Well with 25 point buy both the paladin and monk are severely hurt compare to the rogue. So you're better off with Cleric which is less Mad. This is using 25 point buy from DMG not the pathfinder point buy...

Akisa
2008-11-27, 04:31 PM
If you want to play Aasimar then you should take Lesser Aasimar from player guide to Forgotten Realms.

Keld Denar
2008-11-27, 04:38 PM
If you want something that is Paladinesque, but are concerned that the low point buy will hinder you a lot, check out Complete Warrior. The PrC Pious Templar has much of the paladin flavor without the MAD and the Code as a class feature. You also don't have to be LG, which expands your list of possible gods. It gets fast progressing Paladin casting (but GAH, you don't have access to Spell Compendium!!!@!#@!$) which is pretty crappy without SpC, but better than nothing. I built a pretty neato Dwarven character a while back with a lot of levels in PT. Unfotunately, it also uses a PrC in Races of Stone (Deepwarden) which is available online as a web enhancement. The real glory of the build was that it was only majorly dependant on Str and Con, with a little bit of wisdom for minimal spellcasting. That would be perfect in your 25 point buy situation because it can make more of the stats.

Plus, you are a freakin dwarf. Whats not to love?

Interested in the build? Comes in 2 flavors, depending on choice of weapon (Dwarven Urgosh or Dwarven Waraxe). Could be adapted to not use Deepwarden (if you can't use the web enhancement) but would suffer in AC a bit.

Townopolis
2008-11-27, 05:38 PM
I recommend paladin 4/knight 16, since you have PHB2, possibly paladin 4/marshal 1/knight 15 to get a minor aura for a save.

Divine Shield + Shield Spec + Shield Ward gets a pretty decent AC that can be used against rays. If you can convince enemies to focus on you, you'll do pretty well as a tank between that and Cha to saves. Eventually, you're knight levels will give you a mass taunt, but until then you're going to need to work with positioning. Normally, wading in the center and having the monk and rogue come in from the sides (where, hopefully, they'll be engaging 1 enemy at a time) should work, but it depends on your DM.

For items, AC and saves are your selling point, so cloak of resistance, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, defending weapon, focusing shield (focusing, found in Cadv, is awesome), and mithral full plate (with complimentary dex booster), and a cha booster. Keep the enhancement bonuses as high as possible for obvious reasons.

Most people dislike optimizing defense, but you should be able to get something that'll stand you against a balor without getting hit every round by level 20.

Lessee...

start with 14 cha, put 2 points in it, get +6 cha item, that's +6 AC from divine shield
+6 shield (focusing), base 2, +1 for feat, that's +9 from shield
+5 full plate, base 8, for +13
+3 dex
+5 defending
+5 natural
+5 deflection
+2 (i think) shield block ability from knight (only against 1 target)
10 base

58 AC. A balor with +33 requires a nat. 20 or higher to hit.

An unbuffed Elder Red Wyrm requires a 9 to hit, but colossal dragons are that way anyway.

[Edit]: Math fixed, thank's for spotting that, Eld.

Eldariel
2008-11-27, 05:44 PM
Check your math Smoothie. 10+6+9+13+3+5+5+5+2 = 58. You forgot the base 10. At any rate, optimizing defense is a decent way to go about as long as you have the means to affect your opponent. If you're hitting for 20 damage a turn, no matter of defense is going to make you anything but dead weight on level 20.

josh13905
2008-11-27, 07:57 PM
thank you for all the ideas but right now i'm focused on the begining so does anyone have any type of build or race for paladin level 3 or lower if a level adjustment is included. please include feats and equipment assuming we start with standard, along with ability scores. thank you i think standard starting gold is 2,850

Happy Thanksgiving!

I think i would like to go mostly Paladin with maybe a prestige class or 2 thrown in but i would like them to stack with my paladin levels where possible

What does Mad mean when it comes to ability scores?

Eldariel
2008-11-27, 08:14 PM
MAD = Multi-Attribute Dependant. Paladin is a model case of this: you need Strength to fight, Constitution to survive, Charisma for all your class features and Wisdom to cast spells. That's 4 attributes. And you wouldn't mind some Dex and Int as you have fine class skills, and even Full Plate allows for +1 Dex. So you have real use for all 6 attributes.

By comparison, Druid for example is perfectly capable of working with just Wisdom and Constitution (Wildshape handles the physical stats, and he has enough skills for all the important Druid-ones with Int 10 or 8+Human, and no need for Cha). Likewise, a Wizard only needs Int and Con; you can generally handle your defenses with Magic, and the same with hitting, so your Dex isn't that important (although the lower the level, the more important Dex becomes - on level 1, Con is crap since you die to one hit anyways, so you need to max out Dex for a level 1 game instead). Barbarian is just fine with just Str and Con (along with a splatter of Dex).

None of those classes are MAD - they need one very high stat, second decent stat and all the rest can be very low without hurting the class much at all. Basically, they can do well with lower stats overall than e.g. Paladin or Monk. Paladin requires very high stats to be powerful.


And before we can give you feats or anything, you need to decide what you focus on. Mounted Combat? Melee? Some spellcaster multiclass (Sorcerer and Bard are decent choices - there's a feat to allow you to fix the alignment conflict for Bards and Paladins)?

Keld Denar
2008-11-27, 08:15 PM
What does Mad mean when it comes to ability scores?

MAD is Multiple Ability Dependancy. Its generally considered a bad thing for a class to be, especially in a low point buy situation. As a paladin, you need Str, a little Dex, Con, some Wisdom, and lots of Cha. Being dependant on 4-5 stats is rough, since you won't have any over 14 with a 25 pb. Thats why I was trying to get to to play a paladinlike PrC like Pious Templar. PT is a standard warrior type addon which only needs a little wisdom to function. Other than that, you need high Str and Con like any other warrior class.

For you, as an Asimaar, probably start with Power Attack at 1, and it doesn't really matter at 3. For 6, take Divine Might, although with only a 14 or so cha, you aren't gonna get much in the way of mileage out of it.

Person_Man
2008-11-27, 08:21 PM
Race: Halfling or some other small race. A small race can ride a medium mount everywhere. A medium race often has trouble fitting its large mount in dungeons. A Paladin's mount can easily be its most powerful class feature.

Feats: The most important feat for a Paladin is Leadership, strait out of the Player's Handbook. It let's your mount be something ridiculously potent, such as a dragon or giant spider or whatnot. Search through the Monster Manuals and find something you like, and then talk to your DM about it. If your DM bans Leadership (a reasonable decision, since many players abuse it) then you can go into Beastmaster (Complete Warrior) for an animal companion, and take the Devoted Tracker feat (Complete Adventurer), which allows you to designate your special mount as your animal companion, gaining both sets of bonuses. Then head into Halfling Outrider (Complete Warrior), whose levels stack with both your Paladin and effective Druid levels to determine both sets of bonuses, and you end up with the classic super mount build.

josh13905
2008-11-27, 08:40 PM
Well maybe a cleric would be a better non MAD option hmmmm maybe i can sqeeze out a higher point start from our dm... what should i ask for in order to be an effective paladin?

I Think i like the idea of being mounted but i don't really like and aasimar so maybe just human ( Don't want small because of less damage but i will think on it...)

My monk companion have +6 dex, +2 wis from his githzerai, +4 armor bonus along with spell resistance 5+level and spell like abilities so i don't think he will ever be in trouble.

How bout some help racially for my Fighter Rogue Friend? What you think?

And if we have: A paladin or cleric, a monk, fighter/rogue, then what would our 4th guy be potentially???:smallcool::smallcool::smallcool::sm allcool:

Thank you again for all the help

:smallcool:

Glimbur
2008-11-27, 08:43 PM
You all could do with an arcane caster. Wizard, Sorcerer, maybe a bard if you're feeling cheeky.

Eldariel
2008-11-27, 10:05 PM
Cleric would indeed be good. Melee Cleric does use the same stats as a Paladin (although more Wis, much less Cha), but he has the spells to boost them up (Divine Power gets you that +6 Str, for example, and Divine Favor is +3 to hit and +3 to damage). And you can build an efficient caster Cleric with even lower stats. Also, having access to the potent healing abilities means that your party will be running much longer on average (although having everyone buy the "Healing Belt" - 750gp item from Magic Item Compendium - also helps; Healing Belt gives +2 on Heal-checks, and has 3 charges per day and you can either use 1 charge as a Standard Action to heal 2d8, 2 charges to heal 3d8 or 3 charges to heal 4d8 points of damage). Basic tactic: buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds as soon as you can afford it and you'll be covered for out-of-combat healing so the Cleric doesn't need to burn his precious spell slots for Cure-spells.

As far as the Monk goes, his problem will be doing something to make the opponents care about him. He's hard to affect, sure, but he cannot really damage the opponents (lowish Str, level adjustment, low BAB, low base damage, no weapon enhancements) nor block their movement, so any group of opponents with understanding of basic tactics could pretty much ignore the Monk.

And for the last slot, if anyone is willing to tackle the scary section of PHB that is "spells", an arcanist is a great choice. Wizard or Sorcerer in particular allows you to deal with physically menacing opponents simple fighting would never defeat. This (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=956548) post has great advice on how to make a functional Wizard, and which spells are worth choosing so they help the others do their jobs better. Really, every party wants an arcane caster.

josh13905
2008-11-28, 08:06 AM
Ok lets step back from all this and decide: My party has a monk, a fighter/rogue, and for the purposes of this and arcane spellcaster, what is best class for me, if you don't know the books that are available to me then read my first post on this thread.

Paladin
Cleric
Ranger
knight
ninja
or some other class from my books...?

im pulling for the first three right now...

Eldariel
2008-11-28, 08:32 AM
Cleric. Having a second spellcaster is great, and the party needs a buffer and a healer, and an auxillary tank, all of which are roles Cleric can take. Also, Cleric can help the arcanist in offensive spellcasting even on low levels (Cause Fear et al.).

EDIT: To extrapolate, Paladin is more of a fighter. You already have two guys who want to be in the frontline though, so Paladin would just add to that. What your party does not have is divine spellcaster support, which is something you'd bring as a Cleric. As a bonus, a Cleric can be a great frontliner, much stronger than a Fighter or a Paladin, if he uses his magic to buff himself up. So when needed, you can go smite some heathens in the front.

josh13905
2008-11-28, 09:03 AM
ok then a cleric... is it possible to switch name of thread?
What domains should i pick and god?
Build for 3rd level (or lower with level adjustment)...
Are there any races i could be with + to wis and no level adjustment?

Thanks again for all the help
how about these abilitie for a human?
str 14
dex 8
con 13
int 8
wis 16
cha 12

Eldariel
2008-11-28, 09:23 AM
There's always Lesser Aasimar. It's not in any of the allowed books (Lesser Aasimar is in Player's Guide to Faerun), but it's basically a more Human version of Aasimar in Monster Manual, so it should be available (the only difference between the two is that Lesser Aasimar has no Level Adjustment and has the "Humanoid"-type instead of the "Outsider"-type, which grants you weapon proficiency in all martial weapons and allows you to Alter Self into some scary powerful forms). It has +2 Wis, +2 Cha and no other ability score modifiers.

That said, a Human is just fine too. Your present stat array works ok. I'd consider moving 2 points from Cha to Dex or Int to avoid negative modifiers, but that's about it (Int would get you skillpoint, while Dex helps your AC and initiative, so between those two - if you build a Lesser Aasimar though, I'd definitely buff Int as otherwise you'd be stuck with 1 skill/level). Also, I'd place the odd score in Charisma over Constitution since it's less important of the two (you only use Charisma for Turn Undead, something you don't really need as you have great spells for slaughtering undead as well).


As for feats, much depends on your focus. You have Complete Divine and Complete Arcane, so you could go with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell buffer Cleric [Divine Metamagic is in Complete Divine, Persistent Spell is in Complete Arcane], but without Spell Compendium, you've got far less good options for party buffs to Persist. The other fine Divine feat (feats which burn your Turn Undead-uses, which as I just touched upon, you don't really need for actually Turning) is Divine Spell Power [Complete Divine].

Anyways, you could build an Archer Cleric with Zen Archery and Persistent buffs, but you're probably better off as a classic caster Cleric, picking stuff like Extend Spell, Divine Spell Power (and Extra Turnings to fuel it), and perhaps Power Attack or so to boost your melee ability (when you want to smite those heathens). Eh, Cleric Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) has some good advice on the feats if you feel like reading it. Also, pick a God in accordance to what kind of a Cleric you want to play. Generally most Domains are fairly good, but if there're specific abilities you want (Planning is great as it grants Extend Spell, and Undeath grants Extra Turning to fuel your divine feats, for example - other good ones tend to add some handy Wizard-spells to your Domain slots), go with a God that offers that domain, of course. The easy way out is to be the Cleric of an ideal instead, but that's kinda cheesy and some DMs will probably protest. Not to mention, not all settings allow it. And it's cooler to shout the name of your God as you charge at your adversaries.


EDIT: Ok, I just noticed that many of the spells you'd want from Spell Compendium are also in Complete Divine. So you're fine. DMM: Persistent Spell-focused buffer Cleric capable of smiting heathens when needed is what I'd go with. The important group buffs are Mass Lesser Vigor (so everyone gets Fast Healing thus removing the need for out-of-combat healing), Prayer (buffs for you, debuffs for opponent!) and later on stuff like Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Vigorous Circle, etc. It also allows you to Persist those one-two personal buffs later on; Divine Power and Divine Favor are always good choices (although come level 10 or so, you can Quicken Divine Favor instead and Persist some higher level buff). For your present levels, most mass buffs aren't yet available, but you could Persist e.g. Bless or so.

josh13905
2008-11-28, 11:07 AM
could you post all the stats of the lesser aasimar?

josh13905
2008-11-28, 11:58 AM
Has i understand so far a lesser aasimar has +2 wis and cha
so here are new stats ( last time int was low because of human extra skill points)

str 14
dex 10
con 13
int 10
wis 16 +2 =18
Cha 8 +2=10
but wouldn't that make the lesser aasimar unbalenced because there is nothing to counter the modifiers?

Keld Denar
2008-11-28, 11:58 AM
Lesser Asimaar as discribed on the wizards website actually doesn't get the +2 wis without the +1 LA. The stats are:

Outsider(Native) subtype.
+2 Cha
+2 Listen/Spot
Light 1/Day CL=HD

For the price of a +1 LA, you get:
+2 Wis
Daylight 1/Day CL=HD (replaces Light)

The +1 LA is not worth it.

josh13905
2008-11-28, 12:00 PM
ok so now i have

str 14
dex 10
con 13
int 10
wis 16
cha 8 +2=10
hmmmm

Keld Denar
2008-11-28, 12:05 PM
Do you want to be more of a melee cleric or a caster cleric? If the later, swap stats around so you get a little higher cha. Str is only gonna affect your carrying capacity, and as a caster, Mithril BP should be the heaviest armor you wear (extra mobility is important).

I've played both types. At lower levels, a melee cleric tends to be more fun, but at higher levels, a caster focused cleric can do a lot more fun things. This will affect what feats you take (like Divine Spell Power). You'll still be able to melee if required, but otherwise it would be best to stay towards the back and buff/debuff/dispel/crowd control.

josh13905
2008-11-28, 12:15 PM
my battle tend to have no more than 5 enemies at high levels so it doesn't seem like crowd control would be important.
I want my cleric to be an effective fighter, but i think i would prefer him to be a better caster, i have a feeling often times my party will be disabled or some other problem will be present and they won't be up for the fight so i'll need at least some capability at fighting evne if it is always defensively. I've seen the power of the higher level spells and think it near impossible to best them with combat and with Divine Power and Rightoeus Might ill be ass capable as a fighter anyway so i guess how about this:

str 12
dex 12
con 13
int 10
wis 16
cha 8+2 =10

Keld Denar
2008-11-28, 12:49 PM
my battle tend to have no more than 5 enemies at high levels so it doesn't seem like crowd control would be important.

Crowd control is important any time you have more than 1 foe. The best way to fight bad guys is 1 at a time, when all of your characters can focus fire to eliminate each one before moving on to the next. 2 half injured bad guys do twice as much damage as 1 dead bad guy and 1 living bad guy. Wall of Stone and certain disables like Radiant Assault (SpC) or Holy Smite can level the playing field out, or tip it in your favor. NEVER underestimate crowd control.

I enjoyed playing a high level cleric as a controller. Utilizing buffs (Righteous Wrath (CDiv) and Recitation (CDiv)), crowd control, disables, Dispel Magic (as both a counterbuff and a counterspell), and reactive status effect cures (Resurgance or Heal) and you feel kind of like a wizard in armor, rather than a cleric. If you do everything right, you shouldn't have to lift a single weapon, and you'll be able to breeze encounters at mid-high levels.

Plus, I don't like DMM Persist. It just feels....dirty.

Eldariel
2008-11-28, 02:43 PM
Lesser Asimaar as discribed on the wizards website actually doesn't get the +2 wis without the +1 LA. The stats are:

Outsider(Native) subtype.
+2 Cha
+2 Listen/Spot
Light 1/Day CL=HD

For the price of a +1 LA, you get:
+2 Wis
Daylight 1/Day CL=HD (replaces Light)

The +1 LA is not worth it.

That's not Lesser Aasimar. That's the Aasimar racial progression. Lesser Aasimar is in Player's Guide to Faerun, and has Aasimar's stats, but Humanoid (Native)-type, so he's affected by all effects that affect Humanoids (such as Charm Person) and all effects that affect Outsiders (such as Banishment). It's fairly powerful.

If you have to use the racial progression, Human is many times better with the extra skillpoints and feat both hitting your sparse resources.

Lert, A.
2008-11-29, 12:29 AM
Just for kicks, I'll mention a paladin option. Be warned, it will require access to Races of the Dragon and a DM willing to use the Draconic Racial Class Variant on page 70.

Gnome (picked for a nice Con boost; whatever you think would be good) Half-Dragon (2 Racial levels) Dragon a choice of Bronze, Silver, or Gold for lawful good (if your DM decides that you can roleplay a different heritage, go ahead and pick something you like; the same section contains most of the dragons that can be used in your template).

Now for your 3 level progression:

1st: more of a racial substitution level - you can give either Str, Con, and/or Cha a mild dip. You gain all the Paladin features and a +2 bonus to Intimidate and Spot

2nd: racial level - gain +2 to Str, Con, and Cha (helping you out in your slightly lower stats), claws, darkvision 60ft, dragonblood subtype (helps to qualify for some feats), +1 to natural armor, +4 racial bonus vs. sleep and paralysis

3rd: second Paladin level - if you chose a +Con race and put in a good score you shouldn't be too far behind (or even ahead of) the rest of your party powerwise, still being able to wade into battle and crack skulls.

Later levels you can choose to take the last two racial levels which must be taken consecutively and add the rest of the Half-Dragon template. You'll be a little behind a +0 LA character, but have a solid character.

Food for thought.

Edit:
If you were to shuffle around those last set of stats and take the Dynamic Priest feat (mentioned earlier), you could pretty much dump Wis and get something like:

str 15 -2 +2 = 15
dex 12
con 12 +2 +2 = 16
int 10
wis 10
cha 12 +2 = 14

josh13905
2008-11-30, 06:36 PM
Thought about it and going to build new thread about mystic theurge/cleric/something
name will be:
Mystic Theurges and their playablility