Introversion/Extroversion (and the Internets)

[Ego Slayer]

Was going to throw it into the DT thread since I didn't think it really warranted its thread but it doesn't really belong there, so here's one. :P

While talking with two friends this morning over coffee (as we always do on Friday morning :P), we got to discussing the Jung typology test, specifically the Introvert/Extrovert aspect and the difference between socialization online and in person, especially regarding being an Extrovert. The argument was that socialization online lacks far too much to determine extroversion. Mainly the lack of body language and reactions (ex: if something upsets you online, you can chose not to show it, where as in person it could easily be seen through body language). While I found that a valid point, I didn't agree with the idea that enjoying a large group of persons over AIM is so different from the same group in person that one cannot be thusly labeled as an Extrovert. A point I didn't bring up was that I wonder how much of what you gain personally (attention, influence, validation [can't think of the word I want to use!]) from any type of social interaction plays into how you function or enjoy people. A point one of them brought up was, directed at me, "would you want to spend four hours with them in person every night?" when I explained my constant interaction with Gitp (on AIM). Of course what I didn't refute strongly enough was that normally no one spends that much time socializing every day, so its kind of a moot point, imho. Basically, there so much control in online (IMing more so than forums) socialization that it cannot compare to the same in person that and whether you're an Extrovert or Introvert can't apply as the same as it does in person, and either cannot be determined solely on how, or the levels of, you interact online.

Thoughts?

[Vuzzmop]

Interesting. One could expect greater validation of social needs by an extrovert talking over the internet, but this then leads me to wonder if a lack of body language and other aspects of conversation may leave a highly extroverted person unsatisfied, especially males (who use bodily movements and gestures to greater effect, approximately 90% of our expression), while an introverted person may be content with this level of social contact.

Hrrrrmmmm.

[zeratul]

I for one depending on who I'm with can be much more extroverted off line or much more introverted. However I have met people who are huge extroverts off line but quite the opposite online. So there definitely is a difference generally between people being introverts or extroverts online and off line.

[Gray Jester]

Agree and disagree. My understanding of the whole Introvert/Extrovert thing was that introverts are -tired- by social interaction, and extroverts are charged by it.

I actually am more introverted then extroverted, but seeing me in a group of people, particularly my friends, you wouldn't necessarily think it: I'm often loud, expressive (sometimes), etc. It's just that social interaction is tiring to me: If I don't have some time off on my own to recharge my batteries, I can get very, very stressed within a matter of days. (Last time it happened: church trip. No time to myself, for 5 days straight. I was ready to snap by the end of it.) (Also: I'm toward the middle of the spectrum, on most tests, just ever so slightly more toward introversion, and I tend to be a bit mercurial as to how much social interaction I want.)

So in my opinion, just interactions aren't enough to judge if someone is introverted or extroverted in the Jung typology-sense. I do agree that it's harder to judge with online interactions, though: I find it easier to handle multiple conversations and things -are- more controlled online. The pace of interaction is also often slower then face to face chatting.

[Ego Slayer]

Yeah... and that Extroverts tend to enjoy large groups, where as Introverts don't. Another thought, though, is how much does your place in the situation, and the situation itself or people involved (on or offline), play into how an Introvert interacts with the group, or determine a level of Extroversion.

And as I type that, Grey Jester makes some points there... :P I'm kinda right on the edge between Introverted and Extroverted, but probably leaning towards the former. Also, as a point you seem to have made there... yeah, in person can tire me out, but online never, ever has. Which is an interesting thing to look at. :smallconfused:

This started mostly because I pointed out that when I retook the test I went from INFJ, to ENFJ. ONE POINT in ENFJ. :P My friend totally disagreed with this. The difference in my answering was putting far more value on the time I spend online, as its where 95% of my social interaction ends up, regarding friends. I mean, single test, or single letter cannot encompass an entire personality... its far to complex (at least looking at my own, its not simple in the least bit), and situation and people involved has a lot of play on how you interact.

[mangosta71]

I'm pretty sure I qualify as an introvert, though I've never taken the test. It's much easier (and less awkward) to lurk online when a huge group of people suddenly butts in on what was previously just a few people chatting. You can choose to simply keep quiet, and any time you start to generate a response you can decide at the last moment not to, whereas in person you could start talking and get funny looks when you suddenly clam up. And as has been pointed out, it's also easier to conceal a soul-deep hatred. >.>

I wonder, how is it possible to really be an extrovert in a situation of total anonymity?

[Zarrexaij]

Gray Jester, I can be the same way.

I happen to be extremely introverted and find even short conversations draining sometimes. It gets worse in groups.

I'm very INTJ, by the way.

[B-Man]

Well, there's at least a study that's pro-on-line socialisation.[link (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/us/20internet.html?_r=1)]

I've always differentiated between the two but recently the line is blurring a lot more than it did in the past. I have far more on-line friends than RL friends and I'm find with that. My on-line group of friends are helping me coup with stress a lot better than my group of RL friends and it isn't due to lack of communication. I mean, I'm fairly introverted but I always think of the group I'm in before I think of myself. Wait. Am I a paradox of myself again? I always seem to contradict myself when it comes to describing myself. *shrug*

[Gray Jester]

And as I type that, Grey Jester makes some points there... :P I'm kinda right on the edge between Introverted and Extroverted, but probably leaning towards the former. Also, as a point you seem to have made there... yeah, in person can tire me out, but online never, ever has. Which is an interesting thing to look at. :smallconfused:


Well, I think that also depends on how much emotional contact there is in the interaction. Spending an hour in an emotionally charged argument with your best friend (particularly if they're of the opposite sex and lines between friendship and relationship have been strained) online is much more tiring then spending an hour asking someone you consider pretty cool but are only barely into the "friend" area how their life is going, or talking about Dnd with someone who you never actually have met in person. I'm rarely tired after just chatting with people who I haven't met outside of the electronland, but to me at least, interacting with people who I have met, and become close friends with in person can be just as tiring as interacting with them in person, because things like body language (and thinking about it) are replaced by thinks like word choice and how something might be interpreted. :P



This started mostly because I pointed out that when I retook the test I went from INFJ, to ENFJ. ONE POINT in ENFJ. :P

So, you put two skill points in Jung Typology (Extroversion)?

[Thufir]

I'm definitely introverted in real life, but over the internet I think I become a bit more extroverted, though not too much more.

[Mauve Shirt]

Also, you can spend 4 hours in the AIM chat, but you're not necessarily interacting. I'm in the chat pretty much constantly but I ignore it a lot of the time.
I like social interactions and going out with friends, but I also tend to use friends in order to not meet new people. If you sit at a table in the cafeteria alone, there's a chance someone will come and try to talk to you. However, if you sit there with a friend, even if you're not talking, usually no one will bother you.

[Don Julio Anejo]

The difference between extroversion and introversion has less to do with interaction and more to do with the need for outside stimulation.

In general, introverts' brains are more excited in their normal state, so adding some more stimulation from the outside causes them to feel overloaded. This causes them to seek more relaxation and avoid things like really noisy parties, or even random people talking to them as Mauve Shirt mentioned.

Extroverts' brains are less excited, making them LOOK FOR outside stimulation. Things like being the center of attention are very good for this (obviously not for everyone, this is just an example). Or competition. Or noisy parties. Or meeting new people. Etcetera.

[Faceist]

Interesting. One could expect greater validation of social needs by an extrovert talking over the internet, but this then leads me to wonder if a lack of body language and other aspects of conversation may leave a highly extroverted person unsatisfied, especially males (who use bodily movements and gestures to greater effect, approximately 90% of our expression), while an introverted person may be content with this level of social contact.

Hrrrrmmmm.
Agreed. It's much harder for me - as a self-professed extrovert (god that sounds stupid) - to get across my meaning when I'm not there in the flesh because a good portion of my communique involvings flapping my arms about, making faces and generally being a booby. On the internet, I kind of lose something in the translation. I'm misunderstood more often, I get fewer laughs, I have to resort to smileys to make my meaning known. It's harder for me to be outspoken online and my usual methodology is to lurk on forums. (Boo!)

Maybe unsurprisingly, the Jung typology test calls me an ESFP, or "performer". :smallsigh:

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that I tend to put up a front online. In real life I'm more of a loudmouth chaotic neutral kinda dude but online I retreat into my shell a little. I'm much more analytical, maybe because - as mentioned - there's more opportunity for pauses, thinking time, etc. Even in "instant" messaging programs you have the ability to go back and fiddle around with your sentences before you send 'em.

[Nychta]

I never really thought about extroversion/introversion online, mostly because I didn't think that actual social interaction and typing responses through MSN or AIM or this forum are the same.
I like spending time with friends, and often seem loud and animated, but I still think of myself as closer to an introvert. They tire me out after a while, and I'm not always comfortable with people that I don't know. Communicating online, via the forums or MSN is fine for me with people I don't know in RL. But with friends I just find it easier to talk to them in person.

[Player_Zero]

Introversion/extroversion don't really apply online. Not in the same respect at any rate. Your onoline personality is not necessarily a reflection of that in real life.

If you are talking about deducing what someone acts like in real life based upon how they act online then you should know that people don't act the same online as they do in real life. That doesn't make it impossible to work out how someone acts in real life, but depending on the person their projected personality may vary wildly between the two mediums.

[potatocubed]

In general, introverts' brains are more excited in their normal state, so adding some more stimulation from the outside causes them to feel overloaded. This causes them to seek more relaxation and avoid things like really noisy parties, or even random people talking to them as Mauve Shirt mentioned.

I wonder if internet interaction might be more attractive to introverted types because, unlike real interaction, you can just turn it off when you don't want to deal with it any more. It gives you a more precise control over the level of stimulation you receive.

[Jalor]

I agree. I'm extremely shy (I rarely speak to people other than close friends, which makes meeting new people very difficult), and yet I "talk" for hours over the internet. I'm also much more articulate over the internet, mostly because I can think for a few minutes before posting. Intro/Extro labels sort of don't apply over the Intarwebs.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I actually don't like the internets (I'm extroverted btw). Instead of saying what I want I rethink and analyze what it is I'm writing and in the end I only say something like 1/4 of what I really want to. Either because I can't formulate my thoughts correctly (IRL I can just explain what I meant) or because I'm afraid people won't take it the way I intended and some will get offended...

In person it's easier - people know exactly what you meant from your body language and tone of voice.

[Dragonrider]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm INFJ and every time I've taken the test I've scored 100% introvert. 100%. How is that even possible?!

I'm more extroverted online, but I wouldn't say to a great extent. The lines DO start to blur, but the thing about the online community is that it's not LOUD (this is a huge factor in my introversion) and it's easy to think about your response/figure out how to be tactful. It's not like everyone DOES, but it's a much more...controlled environment.

And you can withdraw from it at your leisure. Unlike "real life".

[Lemur]

To give some more perspective on Internet users and personality (or at least the forumgoers here):

We've had personality test threads before in Friendly Banter. While the numbers may not be perfectly representative, about 3 out of 4 posters were measured as introverted on the Myers-Briggs personality test in both threads that I observed.

[Alarra]

I always score as introverted on tests and the like and tend to be rather shy in most social interactions. Online, however, I'm much more talkative and outgoing. I do agree with what previous people have mentioned in that the 'online' aspect removes a lot of the immediacy of real life interactions - you're able to stop and think about responses, you don't have to interact when you don't want to, etc. I also noticed though that when I'm around my online friends in rl, I'm faaaar more talkative and outgoing then when I'm around most of my real life friends. Admittedly, I think I'm getting better much less introverted of late.

[Jokerz]

I'm extremely introverted. I actually try to avoid social situations that would force me to talk to many people at a time. (No parties for Jokerz!) Online, however, it becomes much easier to talk, perhaps because of the lack of interruptions.:smallsmile:

[snoopy13a]

I think it is easier for the shy introverts (not all introverts are shy but probably all shy people are introverts) to interact online. There is more time to formulate responses and there is less fear of rejection. For example, if someone flames me on a message board I don't feel nearly as bad as if they insulted me to my face. Additionally, many shy people aren't that great with body language which of course, doesn't exist on the internet.

I suppose there is a significant difference between the shy introverts who may want social interaction but are often fearful and insecure about it and the non-shy introverts who are disinterested in social situations instead of being scared of them. I'd guess that the shy introverts are overrepresented on the internet because it provides more "risk-free" socialization.

[Starshade]

Internet is dominated by introvert people i think, once the people in a gameguild i am in did a online test, 80-90% scored INTP or INTJ and we had just one person who was not a extrovert NT or somewhere in introvert scale.

[Gray Jester]

Internet is dominated by introvert people i think, once the people in a gameguild i am in did a online test, 80-90% scored INTP or INTJ and we had just one person who was not a extrovert NT or somewhere in introvert scale.

That's actually quite interesting, at least in my opinion. INTP/INTJ have only about 8% of the population total, iirc (1 in 20 each, I think it was), and that's also missing a lot of other I***s, which makes me think the guild/game also favored NT types. The chances of 80-90% (or more) of the guild being INT* seems to point to that conclusion, at least.

(This is relevant to my interests. I am an INTP. :P)

[Flame of Anor]

I am an INTJ, and moderately introverted--I do sometimes like being in groups--but that's not what being on GitP is like. With a real-life large group, it's a sort of sink-or-swim situation--I have to always be keeping up my end of the conversation. The internet in general, including GitP, is a much "safer" social environment: I don't have to come up with responses in real time, I can edit what I said, I don't have to endure people looking at me funny if I said something weird, and I can leave whenever I want to. This, I feel, is what makes the blagowebs so appealing to introverts.

[wxdruid]

Well, I'm Introverted 67%, Sensing 62%, Thinking 25%, Judging 22% (ISTJ)

an inspector.

For online, I am about the same as offline. Reluctant to get involved, but once I am, then I am. I read the OOTS comic for 3-4 months before I even dared make a forum account.

In group chats I am usually pretty quiet and rarely say anything. I prefer talking one on one in person and in chat. I avoid parties like the plague and the only social situation I enjoy is getting around a table to play D&D.

The interesting part is that my Town characters tend to be more social than I am or ever will be. For example, Tygerlilly and Kethend (a kender and a young dragon), they'll go up to everyone and blatantly invade their personal space. Something I rarely, if ever, do in RL.

I have also been an ISTP in the past. It also fits some of my habits/personality as well.

[Castaras]

I am very shy in real life to begin with. Once I get used to people (takes a while) I become more confident, or at least, pretend to be more confident. Same with voice chats that I do with the MMORPG I play.

Just typing, I am extremely outgoing and say the first thing that comes into my head. To be honest, you see the real me online, that I hide IRL. Aka, the weird me rather than the shy me.

So yeah. I think of myself as the person online, I just am too shy to act myself a lot of the time IRL.

[sktarq]

If you are using the the idea that introverts are tired out by social interaction and extroverts charged up, I'd have to say that I'm an Online introvert and offline extrovert.
I generally find online interaction hard to "bother" with very much-I'd rather read a book. The main exception are people who I know well in real life but distance prevents me from seeing very often/at that moment.

Briggs-Myers can't make up it's mind about me Extrovert/Introvert wise (or anything else -I think I score 5% outside of the midline on even one catagory about half the time) so It's a useless messure for me-my friends, professors, family can't agree euither so I stopped caring years ago. (I had a self definitional crisis of identity and thus asked allot of people a few years ago-I don't recomend it). I like small groups. New people one-on-one or in such small groups (less than approx 6) are great bigger than that and I just get little chunks at a time, however I hate crowds with a passion. I've never been able to just be part of the crowd. Which can make a concert or sports game feel like a very lonely scary place, especially when you can see your friends join the "mob". That said put me on stage and I'm fine-but that generally means I have some sort of goal, job, mission (e.g. to give a entertaining speech, make them laugh, make them learn) etc.
None of that translates to online. So I just don't care much.
Then again I'm not much of one for online video games, or video games at all. Oooh your warlock is a lvl 82 and had a pet yeti.....just doesn't give me any emotional kick-In fact it generally depresses me. Then I go read a book.

As for the idea that extrovert need more stimulation that same idea would lead to only extroverts skydiving etc which is considered a type of behavior well linked to such base stimulation levels. However I've been part of a street skeletoning crew as well as other "high risk/stimulation" activities and have known many introverts in such a crew. Not many of the "shy" kind but plenty of the "disinterested" kind.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Internet is dominated by introvert people i think, once the people in a gameguild i am in did a online test, 80-90% scored INTP or INTJ and we had just one person who was not a extrovert NT or somewhere in introvert scale.
There's a bias here. You didn't test the whole internet, just the game guild. The results can (and will) be different even for a different guild in the same game. Yours might be a raid guild, another guild might be a social roleplaying one (a bunch of INFPs), another yet will have a bunch of overly competitive pvpers who want to be the best at everything (ENTJ suddenly comes to mind). And that's not even talking about a different game, or, gasp!, a different part of the internet.

I doubt you will see many INTP's on fashion forums for example. Or sports' teams forums. Or Myspace.. I'm willing to bet 75% of people who are active there are either ESFP or ESFJ.

[Lemur]

In the playground, about 40% were either INTP or INTJ. About 50% were NT, and in addition about 25% were NF, so about 75% of everyone were measured as Intuitive. Like DJ Anejo says, this doesn't represent the Internet, and it probably doesn't even represent these forums outside of Friendly Banter all that well.

I suppose I should throw it out there that I come up as strongly introverted on personality tests, a notion that I'd agree with. It's worth noting that I'm not much more communicative online than in real life though, because a great deal of the time I just don't have anything to say on the topic at hand.

I also find that it's easier for me to express myself in writing than speaking since seeing my thoughts in front of me helps me organize them better, plus it really makes me think about what I'm saying. Plus it seems to me that my brain is geared to think in a more literary than conversational fashion- I'm prone to analyze what people say and look for multiple ways to "interpret" both the words of others and my own, which doesn't do anything for conversation except possibly cause confusion.


Briggs-Myers can't make up it's mind about me Extrovert/Introvert wise (or anything else -I think I score 5% outside of the midline on even one catagory about half the time) so It's a useless messure for me-my friends, professors, family can't agree euither so I stopped caring years ago.

Useless? It sounds like the test was pretty accurate to me. It described you as neither strongly introverted or extroverted, and the people who know you all seem to corroborate this by their inability to come to a consensus.



So who thinks it's time for another personality test thread? I think it's time for another personality test thread. But I was thinking doing something other than Myers-Briggs this time.

[Pyrian]

Useless? It sounds like the test was pretty accurate to me. It described you as neither strongly introverted or extroverted, and the people who know you all seem to corroborate this by their inability to come to a consensus.Any personality test which merely confirms the answers you give by telling you what you told it, is essentially useless. The test of a personality test is the correlation between answers in the same category: if they register as statistically independent variables, then there is no underlying trait being measured.

[Felixaar]

I'd love spending four hours a night with my playgroundish buddies. I did all that and MORE for a few weeks this year, and it was AWESOME.

[UncleWolf]

I normally don't enjoy large groups(I'm not a very social person IRL) but no matter how many times I this test, I am always an ENTP. The levels may vary somewhat, but it is essentially the same(and yes, I tell the truth).

[sktarq]

Useless? It sounds like the test was pretty accurate to me. It described you as neither strongly introverted or extroverted, and the people who know you all seem to corroborate this by their inability to come to a consensus.

Right I need to elaborate. When my friends, prof etc couldn't figure it out they all had strong opinions one way or the other. As a guide to try new things that XXXX people often like it is pretty useless. Also for saying "You are XXXX" getting a new catagory every week is pretty useless.

[Alien]

Many people here seem to agree that extroverts online are hampered by looking over their own and others' words repeatedly before getting them out, while introverts are boosted by it.
As an extreme introvert, that does match my own experiences, at least. In RL I'm often overloaded by people talking, by only hearing their lines once (most people get tired fast of repeated requests for saying stuff again), and having to think up a coherent response in a split second before the conversation moves on or people get annoyed that I'm not responding.
Part of my issues are probably due to my asperger's though... it seems most people don't have to manually figure out there's a sound incoming, filter out the irrelevant noises, make the sounds into words, figure out what the sentence means, whether it means what it seems to or there's some underlying jibe, sarcasm, innuendo, hinting or whatever, and well, by the time I'm through with that part and can start thinking up responses, yeah, conversation has moved on. IRC and other online communication makes that a lot easier for me, and I'm a lot more outgoing online.