[build help] drow 6th level

[Shiva]

Can you help me a bit? How would you made drow level 6?

I want to play swashbuckler/rouge!

Drow's LA is removed, and have Daylight Adaptation for free, setting is FR, and I can add a single Trait and a single Flaw using the rules on the D20 SRD (Flaw also grants Bonus Feat).

Abilities are 36 point buy and starting gold is 13,000 gp.

Drow should be sailor form Skullport and the game will be pirating.

Or there is maybe one of the Prestige Classes perfect for drow pirate? Range weapons should be pistols and muskets from the DMG. (P. 145).

I really need help cause there is really a lot of facts to consider.

Or what is the best class to play drow?

Thanks

[Keld Denar]

You don't need a PrC. WotC came out with a lovely little feat in Complete Scoundrel called Daring Outlaw. You can easily qualify for it by level 6, and it allows you to combine your Rogue and Swashbuckler levels together to determine how much sneak attack you get, and what your grace bonus is. Typical builds would be Rogue4/Swashbuckler16 for a more combat feel build, or Swashbuckler3/Rogue17 for more of a skill based feel. As a drow, you can't take Able Learner, which will hurt some of your more roguey skills like Search/Disable or Hide/MS if you take mostly Swashbuckler. You don't take a PrC, because you are getting the benefits of both classes by taking one or the other, so if you take a PrC, you are losing out on 2 classes worth of features.

Typically, you'd want to duel wield, especially with the more Swashbuckler build, because your AB will be higher than a straight rogue. More attacks gets you more SA damage. As far as pistols, I don't know what stats you are using or what you are doing for proficency, so more info would be helpful. Drow classically favor 2 sword combat styles, which would be optimally done with either 2 shortswords or 2 elven lightblades (if you want to pay for proficeny) as well as hand crossbows (which could be duel wielded, but not duel reloaded).

MOAR INFO!!!

[Shiva]

The game will be pirating and to follow the setting for range weapons we will use muskets. As for melee weapon I would use 2 longswords or 2 bastardswords or chain.

I thought of taking rogue(3)/swashbuckler(3)? How should I arrange abilities?

Keld Denar you didn't helped me at all! And tell me do you use shortswords?!

Can chain be used as two weapons or have one chain in each hand?

So I get 3 feats as bonuses!

+ 1 regional feat

+ bonus feat (for flaw)

And I'm taking Daring Outlaw and Craven for now.

[Iku Rex]

Books available?

[Keld Denar]

OK, I suggested 2 short swords because it was the least feat intensive option. Duel wielding long swords requires Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (another feat on top of the already feat intensive TWF chain) and still gives you nasty penalties. Short swords are only 1 damage average less than long swords, with the same crit properties, and are a far superior option from an optimization point of view, which I was under the impression you were requesting. Bastard swords would be even worse, as you'd be trading another feat (EWP) for an extra +1 average damage, on top of requiring TWF and OTWF. Even Weapon Specialization gives a better damage/feat return than that.

And no, a Spiked Chain can NOT be used as a double weapon, at least not with the rules as printed. If your DM approves it, then you can, but then again, if your DM approves duel wielding halflings (who are duelwielding spiked chains) then you could too, so its a moot point. If your DM is houseruling it, let us know...I'm still 1500 xp short of my first level of Mindbender, so I'm decidedly lacking in Telepathy skills.

As far as regional feats go, I'd look at Blooded. It gives a +2 bonus to initiative, among other things, which is very nice. It stacks with Improved Initiative for a total of +6 before Dex is counted, if you really want to go first. Also, I dunno if the book Drow of the Underdark has any drow specific regional feats for the UD, but it might be a good place to look.

So, again, MOAR INFO. Any other houserules that we should be familiar with? What stats are you using for Pistols (or whatever)? How are you planning on getting proficiency for all of this stuff you want to take? What ares are you willing to compromise on to get a functional build?

Also, do you have the book Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords available? That would be VERY helpful.

[Shiva]

Books available?

PHB's, DMG, Completes, Stormwrack, Magic Item Compendium, Faerun/FR Campaign Setting and Supplements. No TOB, no Psionics.

[RMS Oceanic]

I have to agree, the Swashbuckler >=3/Rogue >=4 Daring Outlaw path is the best to take, with two light weapons to fight. Also, take the Swashbuckler variant in PHBII that replaces your bonus to Dodge AC with a (starts at +2) Shield Bonus to AC when you fight with Two Weapons. Whether you want to be a combatant (Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16) or a Skill Monkey (Rogue 17/Swashbuckler 3) is up to you.

[Shiva]

Bastard swords would be even worse, as you'd be trading another feat (EWP) for an extra +1 average damage, on top of requiring TWF and OTWF. Even Weapon Specialization gives a better damage/feat return than that.

Hmmm :D Then I will take two short swords.


As far as regional feats go, I'd look at Blooded. It gives a +2 bonus to initiative, among other things, which is very nice. It stacks with Improved Initiative for a total of +6 before Dex is counted, if you really want to go first. Also, I dunno if the book Drow of the Underdark has any drow specific regional feats for the UD, but it might be a good place to look.

OK, nice feat.


I have to agree, the Swashbuckler >=3/Rogue >=4 Daring Outlaw path is the best to take, with two light weapons to fight. Also, take the Swashbuckler variant in PHBII that replaces your bonus to Dodge AC with a (starts at +2) Shield Bonus to AC when you fight with Two Weapons. Whether you want to be a combatant (Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16) or a Skill Monkey (Rogue 17/Swashbuckler 3) is up to you.

Great :smallbiggrin:
Not to make mistake min. level for taking Daring Outlaw is swashbuckler(3)/rogue(3)?

[Keld Denar]

Not to make mistake min. level for taking Daring Outlaw is swashbuckler(3)/rogue(3)?

The prereqs for it are Grace+1 and SA +2d6, which would mean you need 3 levels of Rogue to get it. Most people try to get to Swash3 asap as well, to get int to damage. Thus, Rogue3/Swash3 (or specifically Rogue1/Swash3/Rogue2) is the most common build. Rogue1 at the start nets you the largest number of skill points, although Swash1 as your first level results in 4 extra hp due to the difference in HD size and the fact that HP at level 1 are always max.

So, again, whether or not you want to be a really skilled character, or a more combat focused character would impact which order you take the levels, and which of the 2 classes you progress the most.

Swashbuckler is gonna result in the most damage, since your AB will be higher and you'll hit more often and more competantly duel wield.

Rogue is gonna net you more skill points, and the Rogue special features, specifically Crippling Strike (2 str damage per hit), which with the Savvy Rogue (requires Rogue10) but allows you to do Str damage to foes even if you normally can't SA them. Of course, this isn't a huge benefit because the 3 big foes you can't SA (undead, elementals, and constructs) are also immune to ability damage. It does allow you to do str damage to other rogues, barbarians, plants, and oozes, though.

[Shiva]

Bonus feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting
Daring Outlaw
Craven

Regional: Blooded

Trait: one of these (what do you think)

-Relentless-
You don't know the meaning of the word "tired." You go all out until you simply can't continue.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Constitution checks and similar checks made to continue tiring activities (see the Endurance feat for all the checks andsaves to which this benefit applies).
Drawback

Drawback: Any effect or condition that would normally cause you to become fatigued instead causes you to become exhausted.

-Spellgifted- can this allow me to cast 1 1st level spell?

You have a gift for casting spells from a certain school. Although your spells from this school are more potent than those of other casters, you are not as effective at casting spells from other schools.

Benefit: Choose a school of magic. Add 1 to your caster level when casting spells from that school.
Drawback

Drawback: Reduce your caster level by 1 whenever you cast a spell that is not from your chosen school.

Flaw: none

I'm going to be more more swashbuckler than rogue! Do I take experience penalty for multiclassing?

What is the best ability strat (for warrior)?
36 point buy (+2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int +2 Cha)

Str 16 Dex 18 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 10
or
Str 18 Dex 18 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 10
or
?

I have 13,000 GP to spend? What is the best for this money?

[Keld Denar]

Spellgifted wouldn't give you any spells. It only increases your caster level (the variable part in d6/level or X rounds/level, etc) it doesn't actually give you a spellcasting level.

Honestly, I wouldn't take either of those traits. The bonuses for Relentless are minor compared to the drawback (you get almost 1shotted by a 0th level spell, Touch of Fatigue!) Being Exhausted is bad, as its essentially Slowed + minus 6 penalty to str and dex. BAD!

For flaws, take either the one that gives you -1 ranged attacks, or -1 AC. Your AC will never be high enough to matter much, so the loss of 1 point won't hurt much. The penalty to ranged attacks isn't too bad because you SHOULD be fighting with your swords instead of shooting too much. You want to take a flaw, because feats are GOOD. I'm sure you could find something to take.

I'm pretty sure the favored class of drow is fighter, so you would take a multiclass penalty if your DM actually uses them. They are stupid. Otherwise, there was a feat on some Dragon Mag that adds an extra favored class. You'd have to take it once to add either Swash or Rogue, so that it wouldn't count.

The alternative is to build to Rogue10/Swash10, or Rogue9/Swash11, or Rogue11/Swash9 (level 20 doesn't count, since there isn't any exp gain after 20 unless you go epic). This'll cost you 3 points of BAB though, in any configuration.

[Iku Rex]

Ability scores:

32 point buy
Str 10 2
Dex 15 8
Con 14 6
Int 18 16
Wis 8
Cha 8

+1 Dex level 4
+2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha Drow
+2 Con [Vest] of Con

End result at level 6:
Str 10 (+0)
Dex 18 (+4)
Con 14 (+2)
Int 20 (+5)
Wis 8 (-1)
Cha 10 (+0)

Feats: Blooded (Regional, free for you apparently), Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Craven (ChampRuin)(flaw), Improved Toughness (CWar)(3), Daring Outlaw (6)

Flaw: "Shaky" (only one eye - you're a pirate :smalltongue: )
Trait: Dunno.

(Craven is hard not to take - it's that good. But it may cause problems for your character concept. I'd play the character as obsessed with luck - bad luck in particular. If he fails a save against fear he's become convinced that his luck has turned bad and it may be time to make a run for it.)

If you want to go Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF) you need the Persuasive feat. If so, drop Improved Toughness.

Advancement: I'd probably get one more rogue level (Uncanny Dodge, +1d6 SA with Daring Outlaw). However, after that it gets tricky. Neither rogue nor swashbuckler is favored class for a drow male. And an even mix isn't really optimal. This makes prestige classes more attractive.

The Scarlet Corsair PrC (Storm) isn't bad. Perfect flavor for a pirate. ("Must have established a reputation as a fearsome pirate.")

Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF) could work as well, especially if refluffed for a pirate organization. Two bonus feats and more sneak attack.

You could even consider some wizard levels, for low-level buffs.

Equipment:
600 Boots of Agile Leaping (MIC 76)
5000 Vest of Con +2 (MIC 234) and Resistance +1 (MIC 234)
3600 Belt of Ultimate Athleticism (MIC 75)
2100 +1 Mithral Chain Shirt
320 MW Rapier
100 Hand Crossbow
315 MW Cutlass (Storm)

965 Left for mundane equipment

Make sure you make the appropriate skills to take advantage of the belt and boots. With a starting Int of 20 you should have lots of skill points.

[Shiva]

Flaw: "Shaky" (only one eye - you're a pirate :smalltongue: )
Nice. :smallsmile: Thanks.

It was 36 point buy in. Should I put this extra 4 points in strength?

[Iku Rex]

Nice. :smallsmile: Thanks.

It was 36 point buy in. Should I put this extra 4 points in strength?Couldn't hurt. Or Charisma, if you want the dashing/charming type.

(EditEditEdit: Nevermind then. :smallsmile:)

[Shiva]

Thank You All! :smallbiggrin:

[Lemur]

I think the Detached trait would be a decent one to take, or possibly Plucky, as either of those would boost your will save at the expense of one of your better saves. Alternatively, Reckless is sort of a Power Attack lite if you don't plan on taking the feat itself.

Also a question about some of the earlier advice. Why is Rogue 17/Swashbuckler 3 advised over Rogue 16/Swashbuckler 4? The latter seems like the better choice to me.

[Keld Denar]

Also a question about some of the earlier advice. Why is Rogue 17/Swashbuckler 3 advised over Rogue 16/Swashbuckler 4? The latter seems like the better choice to me.

I dunno, I guess it does get that last BAB you need for your 4th attack. My bad. Didn't really think there was much reason to take Swash past 3, but I guess there is.

[Shiva]

I have one more request what is the best race/class or PrC to play in Drow vs. Elf war 1 st as warrior and 2nd as wizard 18th level?

Allowed books: any of the core, the complete series(no psion), PHB/DMG2, the Forgotten Realm books, and Heroes of Battle.

Setting FR. I will not be fighting massive armies, but will behave more as strike forces and Black Ops.

Any alignment and any race form this material. Starting gold is double than normal.

Thanks

[Heliomance]

Why is everyone saying dual wild shortswords? What's wrong with one shortsword and one longsword?

[Starbuck_II]

Why is everyone saying dual wild shortswords? What's wrong with one shortsword and one longsword?

Probably for stuff like that are same weapon bonuses (Weapon Focus, etc). That would be my guess.

[Heliomance]

Also, what's the title got to do with the thread?

[Shiva]

Well I didn't want to complicate, so I used my old tread. But now I see that it got complicated so I will make another tread. :D