Mystic Theurge Playability and Builds

[josh13905]

Id like to know how to make a Mystic theurge using methods that are legal
The books available are: Complete Adventurer, Complete arcane and divine,complete warrior, 3 core rulebooks, Player handbook 2, dragon magic, dungeonscape, and complete scoundrel.
please help with starting ability score feats, etc. for cleric/some arcane class

[Stupendous_Man]

wizard/ Ur priest / Mystic theurge

Edit: wait, not necessarily in the books you're allowed.

[RS14]

Take a look at the handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=860220).

[Mushroom Ninja]

wizard/ Ur priest / Mystic theurge

The one "drawback" is you have to be evil...

[Yukitsu]

Have a change of heart. You can change alignment after 2 of ur priest, and keep advancing it via theurge.

[Stupendous_Man]

The one "drawback" is you have to be evil...

you don't lose your spellcasting ability for being good.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Have a change of heart. You can change alignment after 2 of ur priest, and keep advancing it via theurge.

That would do.

[Keld Denar]

Human
Wizard4/HumanParagon3/AbjurantChamp3/DivineCrusader1/Contemplative1/MysticTheurge8

Well, would work, except no UA for Human Paragon and no Complete Mage for AbChamp. Boo.

Would get 17th level wizard casting, 10th level Divine Crusader casting (9th level spells from 2 domains). Build that came up in a recent Ur-Priest/MysticTheurge thread.

Hmmm, you could probably do something interesting with Cleric into Seul Archanamach and then progress them both with Mystic Theurge. SA only gets up to 5th level spells though, IIRC. Still, 5th level wizard casting from a couple schools tacked onto nearly FULL cleric casting would be badass. Throw a level of Geomancer in there at some point and you could DMM: Persist a couple of really nice Wizard spells as well.

[playswithfire]

The one "drawback" is you have to be evil...

From the thread addressing that, here's his goody-goody cousin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5389937&postcount=36)

[Fax Celestis]

You didn't list Tome of Magic, but if you can get that, you can go Wizard 3/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 4 and end up with double nines.

[Thurbane]

It's a shame HoH isn't on the list - Wizard/Archivist/Theurge would be pretty cool. True, you've got to track 2 spellbooks, but you're casting off one ability - INT.

[Mushroom Ninja]

It's a shame HoH isn't on the list - Wizard/Archivist/Theurge would be pretty cool. True, you've got to track 2 spellbooks, but you're casting off one ability - INT.

That would be pretty Epic!

[Jack_Simth]

Id like to know how to make a Mystic theurge using methods that are legal
The books available are: Complete Adventurer, Complete arcane and divine,complete warrior, 3 core rulebooks, Player handbook 2, dragon magic, dungeonscape, and complete scoundrel.
please help with starting ability score feats, etc. for cleric/some arcane class
Let's see... if Races of the Wild was available, you could do a Wizard-3/Druid-3/Mystic Theurge-4/Arcane Heirophant-10 (9th level Arcane and Divine spells at 20th)... but it's not.

The standard "power" build is Wizard-5(Players Handbook)/Mindbender-1 (Complete Arcane)/Ur-Priest-2 (Complete Divine)/Mystic Theurge-8(Dungeon Master's Guide)/Full Arcane Advancement PrC of Choice-4 - 9th level Divine casting at 15th or 16th (depending on Wisdom), 9th level Arcane casting at 19th.

Edit:
Do note that from a power perspective, it's a trap without something like the Ur-Priest build - being three levels (1.5 spell levels) behind on casting hurts. Now, if you're playing this as a 5th wheel in an unusually large party, it's okay with a Wizard-3/Cleric-3/MT-10. If you've got a small party, and you're playing this as the only caster in the party, then the flexibility is somewhat useful (although you'll generally do better with a Magic-Domain cleric - or better, a Magic-Domain Cloistered Cleric).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bard6/Fighter1/Sublime Chord1/UrPriest2/Mystic Theurge10

9's in both columns.

Fighter1 can be replaced with anything that has high Fort to meet the +3 Fort save prerequsites for UrPriest

Other than using UrPriest, Mystic Theurge is a trap. In exchange for reducing your spellcasting progression by at least 3 levels, you get to have twice as many spells you can't cast at the same time. Even with UrPriest, you're still delaying progression on arcane side at least 2 levels.

Consider if you will:

your 'classic' Wiz3/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10/Geomancer4

You get 9th level spells in one side, but only 7th on the other side. You can change around arcane and divine for up to 3rd level spells (whch can be of use when combined with DMM or using armor). However, you still have the same number of actions per round that anyone else does. Granted, if you use Geomancer to advance arcane, you've still got Batman cheeze, but that's still not nearly as powerful as many other choices.

[Kurald Galain]

Don't forget the Precocious Apprentice trick.

[Jack_Simth]

Bard6/Fighter1/Sublime Chord1/UrPriest2/Mystic Theurge10

9's in both columns.

Fighter1 can be replaced with anything that has high Fort to meet the +3 Fort save prerequsites for UrPriest

Sublime Chord has a requirement of 13 ranks in a skill - you can't qualify until 10th, to take it for 11th. The build you're looking for is
Bard-5/Mindbender-1/Ur-Priest-2/Mystic Theurge(Bard/Ur-Priest)-2/Sublime Chord-1/Mystic Theurge(Sublime Chord/Ur-Priest)-8/Sublime Chord+1

If Unearthed Arcana content is available, you'll want the Savage Bard (for the good Fort save - lets you drop the Mindbender level completely). Do note that it's available on d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) .


Other than using UrPriest, Mystic Theurge is a trap. In exchange for reducing your spellcasting progression by at least 3 levels, you get to have twice as many spells you can't cast at the same time. Even with UrPriest, you're still delaying progression on arcane side at least 2 levels.

Consider if you will:

your 'classic' Wiz3/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge10/Geomancer4

You get 9th level spells in one side, but only 7th on the other side. You can change around arcane and divine for up to 3rd level spells (whch can be of use when combined with DMM or using armor). However, you still have the same number of actions per round that anyone else does. Granted, if you use Geomancer to advance arcane, you've still got Batman cheeze, but that's still not nearly as powerful as many other choices.
From a power perspective, that's true.

It can be a useful PrC with early entry tricks (such as the Ur-Priest), and it can also be used effectively in fifth wheel situations, or in situations where there's only one caster who must cover both the arcane and divine roles. Otherwise, it's generally very sub-optimal.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

With Precocious Apprentice go Grey Elf, Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) 3/ Wizard 1/ Mystic Theurge 10. Archivist gets access to almost every spell (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515321) in the game. Just cast Secret Page to put any spell you want into your spellbook/prayerbook without having to find a scroll from an obscure class.

[josh13905]

Pretty sure my dm will let me epic prestige giving me cleric 3/wizard3/ mystic theurge 14 putting me in 9 level spells for each divine and arcane...

What Main ability does a warmage get spells with and what level does he get 2nd spells and 9 spells?

[Keld Denar]

Mystic Theurge only has 10 levels. Unless you are just projecting the class features (save/bab progression, spells are kind of a gimme).

Warmages cast off Cha, but get bonus damage from high Int. Warmage as a MT is proabably not a very good choice, simply because of delayed spell progression and the fact that Warmages suck :P

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Archivist 3/ Warmage 1/ Mystic Theurge with the feat Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon would actually be a very viable build. Generally though, a Warmage/Cleric/MT is just awful because nothing is a dump stat.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Pretty sure my dm will let me epic prestige giving me cleric 3/wizard3/ mystic theurge 14 putting me in 9 level spells for each divine and arcane...
Sounds like you have a cool, smart and reasonable DM. Another option, if you can get your DM to house rule Favored Souls into SAD Cha casters, is Sorc 4/FS 4/MT 12. I'm sure that someone will jump down my throat for daring to suggest a spontaneous caster over a prep caster, but having all those spells known combined with spontaneity can be a lot of fun!

TS

[Blood_Lord]

Sounds like you have a cool, smart and reasonable DM. Another option, if you can get your DM to house rule Favored Souls into SAD Cha casters, is Sorc 4/FS 4/MT 12. I'm sure that someone will jump down my throat for daring to suggest a spontaneous caster over a prep caster, but having all those spells known combined with spontaneity can be a lot of fun!

Just to be different, I'm going to jump down your throat twice, and neither time for that.

1) You suggest someone take Epic class levels pre-Epic?

2) You suggest anyone take Epic Mystic Theurge, which is the worst epic spellcasting class.

[John Campbell]

I've been kicking around the idea of a dwarven Cleric 3/Wizard 2/Runesmith 1/Mystic Theurge just for the "cast anything in the book, in adamantine full plate" factor.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Epic Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMysticTheurge) is indeed a lot worse than just alternating between more Wizard and Cleric levels for those last four. Wizard 3/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 10 starting out, then going Mystic Theurge 11-14th you'll get 4d4 hp and be four levels closer to your once-every-6th epic bonus feat, vs Wizard 4th/ Cleric 4th/ Wizard 5th/ Cleric 5th you'll get 2d4+2d8 hp. No character should ever take Epic Mystic Theurge levels, never ever.

Use the Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) variant from UA, and after going Cloisered Cleric 3/ Wizard 3/ Mystic Theurge 10 start taking Dweomerkeeper (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a), alternating the spellcasting between classes like the Epic Mystic Theurge would do, and you'll be way better off than actually taking Epic Mystic Theurge levels.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Just to be different, I'm going to jump down your throat twice, and neither time for that.

1) You suggest someone take Epic class levels pre-Epic?

2) You suggest anyone take Epic Mystic Theurge, which is the worst epic spellcasting class.
I don't think a post technicaly qualified as jumping down someone's throat unless you insinuate or outright call them a moron. So you're cool so far. :smallsmile: Anyway, you'd be totally justified for jumping down my throat if Josh hadn't said that his DM would probably let him take "epic" MT levels before actually hitting epic. Your second point is a good point, but I would hope that Josh's DM is smart enough to simply continue the MT's dual casting progression rather than use the epic MT.

TS