Self-fulfilling prophecy delivery for a Mr. Redcloak, courtesy of the Sapphire Guard.

[itsmeyouidiot]

I've just finished "Start of Darkness," and boy, did I like it. Being the cheapskate I am, of course, I just looked for an offer for it on craigslist rather than ordering from the official store. (That'll teach the Giant not to try to make a profit from a webcomic. :smallmad:)

It also spurred a sudden realization when I re-read comic #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html).

Could the reason that the Sapphire Guard went to kill Redcloak's tribe have to do with a prophecy that predicted that one of the tribe's members would attempt to take Soon's Gate? If that's the reason, then the Sapphires certainly did a pretty good job of creating Redcloak's primary motivation for attempting to take Soon's gate. You'd think, this being OotS and all, they'd have been genre savvy enough to know about this and avoid it. Oh, never mind, the plot required it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall). Oh, well :smallredface:.

[David Argall]

Not impossible, but we have no serious evidence of it [not that seems to stop, or even slow down, a number of posters] and we are unlikely to get any.

[Raging Gene Ray]

(That'll teach the Giant not to try to make a profit from a webcomic. :smallmad:)


Why'd you say that? Now Rich is going to have to beat the everloving crap out of you with a motorcycle!

Seriously though, unless there's anything to suggest that the thing in your spoiler happened...it's just pure speculation. Someone who actually read SoD could probably argue better than I can.

[FoE]

(That'll teach the Giant not to try to make a profit from a webcomic. :smallmad:)

Yes, let's teach that bastard for trying to make a living off his own work!

Damn you, Rich Burlew! HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME PAY FOR ENTERTAINMENT?! All my disposable income is ear-marked for essential things, like gambling and hookers! :smallmad:

By the way, WHAT PROPHECY?

[Zevox]

Seriously though, unless there's anything to suggest that the thing in your spoiler happened...it's just pure speculation. Someone who actually read SoD could probably argue better than I can.
It's pure speculation, and poorly founded at that.

SoD spoilers:
During that attack Redcloak's master, the previous bearer of the Crimson Mantle, told Redcloak that he was the target of the Paladins' attack on the village, and that they had done this before to his master. That they slaughtered the rest of the village while they were at it was merely because, as he put it, they "set off their 'Evil radar'." This seems a pretty likely explanation for the attack, especially if he was right about them attacking in the past for the same reasons - and since the Paladins make a point of attacking him en masse after noticing he is wearing the cloak, and Miko reacts rather strongly later on when she notices Redcloak wearing it, there's evidence to back it beyond just his word.

In short, there's no reason that such a prophecy would be required for the attack, nor any evidence to support the notion, and there's a logical explanation for the attack provided in the book itself. Which makes the theory pretty weak.
Zevox

[Warlord JK]

It's pure speculation, and poorly founded at that.

SoD spoilers:
During that attack Redcloak's master, the previous bearer of the Crimson Mantle, told Redcloak that he was the target of the Paladins' attack on the village, and that they had done this before to his master. That they slaughtered the rest of the village while they were at it was merely because, as he put it, they "set off their 'Evil radar'." This seems a pretty likely explanation for the attack, especially if he was right about them attacking in the past for the same reasons - and since the Paladins make a point of attacking him en masse after noticing he is wearing the cloak, and Miko reacts rather strongly later on when she notices Redcloak wearing it, there's evidence to back it beyond just his word.

In short, there's no reason that such a prophecy would be required for the attack, nor any evidence to support the notion, and there's a logical explanation for the attack provided in the book itself. Which makes the theory pretty weak.
Zevox

What he said :smallbiggrin:.

[The Extinguisher]

It's hard for me to trust the word of the high priest of a god who wants to unleash the god-killing abomination, about the motivations of an order who swore to protect something that keeps that very same god-killing abomination locked away.

Something about a conflict of interest.

[newcresty]

By the way, WHAT PROPHECY?

The one next to the Gate

[ThisIsNotDan]

The one next to the Gate

LOL, awesome.

Also, this webcomic wouldn't be nearly as good if the Giant weren't able to make a living off of it, thus allowing him to spend far more time crafting it than he otherwise could. I really hate when people try to shaft the Giant (or any other artist/author) because they somehow feel entitled to his creative genius.

[Kaytara]

I wouldn't dismiss the OPoster's idea quite so quickly.

It's entirely possible that their scryings simply revealed that there was one goblin in village XY who was going to threaten the foundation of the universe itself. Being already familiar with the Crimson Mantle, once they saw the High Priest they immediately assumed it was him, rather than any of the rugrats crawling underfoot. Which led to the slaughter, which led to Redcloak's grudge against them. Pretty much the classic example of many self-fulfilling prophecies found in fantasy - a massacre by an overlord with the intent to eliminate one person who would be a threat in the future fails to kill that one person and gives them a damn good reason.

Though I'll admit, the fact that the Sapphire Guard diviners seem to be able to pinpoint exactly what group of adventurers caused the destruction of Dorukan's Gate is a weak point in this idea, since they likely would've been able to determine exactly who it was that threatened existence itself.
Although, then again, all goblins DO look rather similar to human eyes....

[itsmeyouidiot]

Yes, let's teach that bastard for trying to make a living off his own work!

Damn you, Rich Burlew! HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME PAY FOR ENTERTAINMENT?! All my disposable income is ear-marked for essential things, like gambling and hookers! :smallmad:

By the way, WHAT PROPHECY?

Um, have you ever heard of sarcasm?

Edit:

I wouldn't dismiss the OPoster's idea quite so quickly.

It's entirely possible that their scryings simply revealed that there was one goblin in village XY who was going to threaten the foundation of the universe itself. Being already familiar with the Crimson Mantle, once they saw the High Priest they immediately assumed it was him, rather than any of the rugrats crawling underfoot. Which led to the slaughter, which led to Redcloak's grudge against them. Pretty much the classic example of many self-fulfilling prophecies found in fantasy - a massacre by an overlord with the intent to eliminate one person who would be a threat in the future fails to kill that one person and gives them a damn good reason.

Though I'll admit, the fact that the Sapphire Guard diviners seem to be able to pinpoint exactly what group of adventurers caused the destruction of Dorukan's Gate is a weak point in this idea, since they likely would've been able to determine exactly who it was that threatened existence itself.
Although, then again, all goblins DO look rather similar to human eyes....

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. It might not be true, (as Rich has proven us wrong on multiple occasions), but it's definately not impossible, so I wouldn't dismiss my idea just yet.

[factotum]

Um, have you ever heard of sarcasm?


Clearly he has, because he was just using it against you...

[Kaytara]

Clearly he has, because he was just using it against you...

A high Hide does not equal a high Spot.

...By which I mean that just because someone has used sarcasm doesn't mean they recognised it elsewhere. In fact, if a person made fun of a statement in a sarcastic way, it's a pretty sure hint they didn't recognise that statement as sarcastic rather than decided to join in on the fun.

[T-O-E]

Why'd you say that? Now Rich is going to have to beat the everloving crap out of you with a motorcycle!

Are you trying to make a meme?

[Samurai Jill]

Why'd you say that? Now Rich is going to have to beat the everloving crap out of you with a motorcycle!
Well where's my motorcycle, huh? Answer me that? When do I get some special attention?

[Greep]

The one next to the Gate

What gate? I don't see any gate o.O

[hamishspence]

Maybe they have their own Oracles of sorts "A goblin wearing a Crimson Mantle will threaten the fabric of creation itself"

[FoE]

Um, have you ever heard of sarcasm?.

Haven't you? :smalltongue:

[Yagerr]

Haven't you? :smalltongue:

Talking about the other guys quote not face of evil lol

is it really sarcasm to "hey look how I got around not paying him"

I mean its not really... like saying one thing but meaning another... its more like Hey guys I didn't pay someone who wrote a book that I enjoy enough to talk about on the internet...

Eh personally thought, ranting about sarcasm is like spitting into the ocean.

[Rad]

Actually it would be interesting to speculate about HOW the sapphire guard knows about the Crismon Mantle and what it knows about it.

[King of Nowhere]

It's pure speculation, and poorly founded at that.

SoD spoilers:
...
That they slaughtered the rest of the village while they were at it was merely because, as he put it, they "set off their 'Evil radar'."
...
Zevox

This just makes me think: What would the Sapphire guard have done if they had used their detect evil on Greysky city? :smalleek: I could almost justify the destruction of the city for that case. (enphasis on "almost")

[pjackson]

IT is pretty clear that Redcloak does not understand the motivations of Paladins (546 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html)).
There is no reason to assume that his predecessor understood them better.

We know the Sapphire Guard had access to diviners (292 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html)).

We know the Sapphire Guard know about the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle and considered him a threat to the gate (369 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html)). The easiest way they would have learned that is by divination. The obvious question was "Who is the greatest threat to the gate?".

We also know that the Sapphire Guard went on a crusade to eliminate threats to the gate, and that involved killing at least one wearer of the Crimson Mantle (277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)).

Put together it makes the idea that the raid that killed Redcloak's family was intended to eliminate a threat to the gate more likely than the idea that they were killing the goblins just because they were evil.

Whilst it is speculation it is not poorly founded and there is evidence to support it.