I Blame Durkon

[MasterofMockery]

I Blame Durkon for most of the bad things that have happened to the party post 500. There is a reason behind this of course, his utter lack of forethought in battle preparation. It is clear that Durkon has disruption giantitp.com/comics/oots0094.html and should have prepared it before hand, I mean after all the order's main purpose it the battle was to destroy Xykon before he could alter the battle too much. With disruption Roy would have a chance to destroy Xykon, and come out alive, if he managed it so where he had enough health to come out alive after the fall. Also, given the relative closeness to Varsuvius http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0441.html he would have likely to have been able to reinforce the resistance at the breach in the wall, possibly (but not probably) changing the outcome. Then the entire party would be together again, Roy might be alive, and Redcloak might not make it out alive of the lord's tower. This minor overslight cost the order greatly, so I ask Why Durkon, Why.

[Shades of Gray]

I DON'T!

Roy's Weapon wouldn't have really benefited from disruption, it's already dangerous to undead. Not buffing Roy with a SINGLE low level spell which is already on his weapon. Disrupt undead, IIRC, just adds 1d6 damage vs. undead.

[Zevox]

so I ask Why Durkon, Why.
This is why (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7).

Beyond that, actually, if you read what the Disruption spell does, it wouldn't have helped at all. In order for it to affect an undead creature, their HD has to be less than or equal to the caster's caster level. Xykon is epic-level, Durkon is not, therefor Durkon's Disruption spell couldn't possibly affect Xykon.

Zevox

[Warlord JK]

This is why (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7).

Beyond that, actually, if you read what the Disruption spell does, it wouldn't have helped at all. In order for it to affect an undead creature, their HD has to be less than or equal to the caster's caster level. Xykon is epic-level, Durkon is not, therefor Durkon's Disruption spell couldn't possibly affect Xykon.

Zevox

Please read above post if anyone feels any need to agree or argue.

[theinsulabot]

i am inclined to think that durkon and the others hadn't quite grasped what a bad ass xykon actually was. when they used there disruption a minor house ruling call could of given it a bit more "oomph" against undead, like a one shot with a DC resist check for xykon. but once they grasped they were dealing with a lich so tough he could probably pull off a hadoken if he really wanted to, they discarded the use of disruption, realising it to be useless against a lich of xykon's power

[Belkster11]

Durkon didn't know how the battle was going to play out, we may as well blame Haley for not having arrows that could hurt a lich.

[RMS Oceanic]

Well she should have! She should have taken a leaf out of Green Arrow's book and had +5 Boxing Glove Arrows! And her +3 bow should have had a Greater Truedeath Crystal! :smallfurious:

[Scarlet Knight]

I always wondered how those boxing gloves fit in his quiver....:smallconfused:

[Fawkes]

I blame Daigo and Kazumi for not having more class levels.

[Raging Gene Ray]

I blame Xykon...and Redcloak, and Miko and Shojo, and Roy...of all the characters I'd blame, Durkon comes in a distant 62nd

[King of Nowhere]

I don't think Xykon can be killed with a single spell, at least not a spell Durkon is able to cast. I'd be really surprised if someone can destroy a character 8+ level over him with a single spell (unless calling for natural 1 on saving throws).
I think back in the dungeon, Durkon tought that his spell could kill Xykon, and the goblin teenager believed him, and Xykon believed it all, or decided to not take the chance, or just wanted to see Roy's face.
Anyway, my theory is that if Roy could hit Xykon with his sword, it would have sorted little to no effect, minor damages at most.
NOTE: I base this interpretation over the assumption that disruption is house-ruled in oots. Otherwise,
In order for it to affect an undead creature, their HD has to be less than or equal to the caster's caster level. Xykon is epic-level, Durkon is not, therefor Durkon's Disruption spell couldn't possibly affect Xykon. is the answer.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Disrupt undead, IIRC, just adds 1d6 damage vs. undead.
Disrupt Undead (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsDtoE.html#disrupt-undead) ≠ Disrupting Weapon (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsDtoE.html#disrupting-weapon)

Disrupt undead cannot be cast upon a weapon, and I doubt anyone in the order thought a 0-level spell would destroy Xykon.

[factotum]

Disrupting Weapon is even worse, though, because it has no effect whatsoever on an undead with more hit dice than your caster level!

[Kaytara]

Actually, since we're casting blame around, it's a miracle no one's mentioned Vaarsuvius.

Roy only jumped onto the dragon in the first place because Vaarsuvius wasn't there to cast Fly on him or deal arcane damage to Xykon. Roy's weapon was the only thing that worked.

Therefore, if, at the beginning of the battle, Vaarsuvius hadn't separated from the group in order to (heroically, but with characteristic arrogance and against Roy's orders) 'handle' the three titanium elementals, it is likely Roy wouldn't have died, the group wouldn't have ended up separated and a lot of the current problems wouldn't have happened.
(It is, of course, likely that the delay in dealing with the elementals would have had a strong negative impact on the battle, but as I said, chances are the party still would have lived through it without becoming separated.)

Just something that occurred to me. I'm curious to see if this will be brought up in the actual comic. If V ends up learning hir lesson about arrogance and solo adventuring, this would fit right in.

[[TS] Shadow]

While I agree that the Giant didn't take the strip this way because of plot, it has been proven in the strip before that the Distruption spell would end Xykon in one hit: Strip 112. Don't forget this is when both Roy and Durkon were levels 9-11, as opposed to Azure City's 14-15.

[Zevox]

Shadow;5415826']While I agree that the Giant didn't take the strip this way because of plot, it has been proven in the strip before that the Distruption spell would end Xykon in one hit: Strip 112. Don't forget this is when both Roy and Durkon were levels 9-11, as opposed to Azure City's 14-15.
Not necessarily. Remember, the Goblin got this information by overhearing Durkon talking, who likely didn't realize Xykon was that much more powerful than him. And Xykon just took him at his word.

Zevox

[Flame of Anor]

And, while we're at it, only bludgeoning weapons can be Disrupting, anyway.

[Theodoriph]

Actually, since we're casting blame around, it's a miracle no one's mentioned Vaarsuvius.

Roy only jumped onto the dragon in the first place because Vaarsuvius wasn't there to cast Fly on him or deal arcane damage to Xykon. Roy's weapon was the only thing that worked.

Therefore, if, at the beginning of the battle, Vaarsuvius hadn't separated from the group in order to (heroically, but with characteristic arrogance and against Roy's orders) 'handle' the three titanium elementals, it is likely Roy wouldn't have died, the group wouldn't have ended up separated and a lot of the current problems wouldn't have happened.
(It is, of course, likely that the delay in dealing with the elementals would have had a strong negative impact on the battle, but as I said, chances are the party still would have lived through it without becoming separated.)

Just something that occurred to me. I'm curious to see if this will be brought up in the actual comic. If V ends up learning hir lesson about arrogance and solo adventuring, this would fit right in.



Except...it wouldn't.


And no one's mentioned it because it doesn't make much sense. Unless people are going to start blaming the raindrop because it fell into a puddle of water, creating a noise that attracted the attention of a young woman who wandered over and saw a gorgeous man nearby, who saw her and introduced himself, who married her, had kids, who had kids, who had more kids, who had Xykon.

It's just preposterous. And you can go even further back then the raindrop :P



If you want someone to blame, blame Miko. It's quick, easy, and makes sense. Xykon and RC would have died if she hadn't destroyed the gate. Guaranteed. Don't be too hard on her though. She was kind of mental.

But yeah...if you want to undo one action, you undo that one. And everyone (except the subjugated Azurites) lives happily ever after.

[SoD]

I blame Crystal, from back when she disguised herself as a member of the saphire guard who duel-weilded a katana/wakizashi (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html). Does she really think that dying her her and changing her outfit will fool us that easily?

[Kaytara]

Except...it wouldn't.
And no one's mentioned it because it doesn't make much sense. Unless people are going to start blaming the raindrop because it fell into a puddle of water, creating a noise that attracted the attention of a young woman who wandered over and saw a gorgeous man nearby, who saw her and introduced himself, who married her, had kids, who had kids, who had more kids, who had Xykon.

It's just preposterous. And you can go even further back then the raindrop :P


I disagree. That is not a valid comparison. The example you provided is a random event, and a neutral one at that. A raindrop falling down isn't considered particularly good or bad by anyone and it doesn't have any easily foreseeable long-term consequences or risks. More to the point, it is random and a matter of chance rather than a sentient person's conscious decision. Therefore, yes, it would be preposterous to "blame" any of those events for later repercussions.

What I was referring to, however, was Vaarsuvius' attitude. That's a completely different thing, as people ARE often chastised and blamed for their attitude if it causes something unfortunate to happen, even if they had no idea it would lead to that. For example, "If only you weren't so careless, you wouldn't have lost the keys." The person didn't want to lose the keys. That doesn't mean they can't be criticised for having an attitude that made the loss of keys more likely to happen.

Same with Vaarsuvius. When you're facing an army of monsters led by an Epic-level lich who could show up any moment, staying together is usually considered a good idea. Splitting from the team is considered foolish and irresponsible. However good your intentions, disobeying the orders and plans of your leader, especially one that you yourself respect and have voluntarily chosen to follow, is also foolish. Likewise, going off on a miniature solo adventure in the middle of the battle when your comrades rely heavily on your arcane assistance makes you an unreliable ally. Not only that, you're taking a chance that things will work out exactly how you imagine them. If you take a stray arrow or are caught under a boulder a Titanium elemental happens to toss your way, you're on your own and probably dead, whereas otherwise you might've been saved from it by the meatshield or healed by the cleric.

The battle is probably the earliest real example, but recently it's becoming apparent that Vaarsuvius is in fact very much of a solo player, always ready to take matter into his own hands if he deems it necessary. Vaarsuvius can thus be very easily blamed for not acting in the best interests of the team and causing them problems in the process.

[Traker]

I blame Crystal, from back when she disguised herself as a member of the saphire guard who duel-weilded a katana/wakizashi (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html). Does she really think that dying her her and changing her outfit will fool us that easily?

I didn't see that till now.