Vote Up A Campaign Setting: Discussion Thread

[afroakuma]

Alright folks, this will be the new discussion thread for VUACS, since the other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96183) has reached 50 pages.

To summarize what went down:


Genre: Arabian Nights/Desert Fantasy

Thematic Priorities: Mystique/Travel/Tradition/Multiculturalism/Classic Threats/Fate & Destiny

Magic Level: Moderate

PC Races: Half-Djinn, Lizardfolk, Genasi, Half-Ghul, Kobold & Gnoll

Human Percentage: 50%

Primary Antagonists: Use of Magic

Geography: Few Large Continents

Primary Religion: One Single God

Cosmology: Yin/Yang Planes

Politics: City-States

Advanced Classes: Alchemist, Dervish, Geomancer, Djinn Lord, Master of the Wastes, & Pharaoh

Setting Title: Hourglass of Zihaja


Progress continues on all aspects of the setting. A new spoiler may be in the offering. Let the discussion commence!

[Mercenary Pen]

Will any 4e specific monsters be redone for the 3.5 element of the setting (possibly Kruthiks)?
with another spoiler in the offing, I want to get as much information as I can.
Will any monsters that exist in both editions be reskinned to better suit the setting (desert variant shambling mound perhaps)?

[afroakuma]

No to all.

[Pronounceable]

Will you be ditching the stupid alignments of 4e? White writing for the win!

Will the largest city be nicknamed Jewel/Gem of Desert/Sands?No, seriously. I like this.

Will we be getting any more teasers? Wooo! I'm invisible!! You can't read meee!!!

[afroakuma]

Shadow hates them, but this is a campaign setting, not a game redesign. The overall design aesthetic is definetely biased towards 3.X, however.

Probably not.

Not a teaser. More of a spoiler.

[Zeta Kai]

I've asked the mods to close the old thread. We should have a link to the old thread in the OP, though, for clarity's sake.

[afroakuma]

Consider it done.

[Zeta Kai]

The powers that be have locked the old thread, which has the side benefit of preventing people from quoting the decapitation discussions that ultimately derailed the thread.

May the on-topic conversation commence.

[afroakuma]

That reminds me, Zeta. Have you had a chance to look over the item I sent you?

[Zeta Kai]

Here, this will get the talk going. Here is a map of the campaign setting's primary focus:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/HoZ5.jpg

[Zeta Kai]

That reminds me, Zeta. Have you had a chance to look over the item I sent you?

Look: Yes.

Have time to comment/critique: No.

I will tonight. It looks good so far. More detailed analysis to follow.

[Magnor Criol]

Hm, I really like that map. Lots of land to scatter hooks in, a nice bite-sized bit of green down in the bottom for more environs, and plenty of water to ply through in search of those long-lost islands everyone talks about. And a massive lake to boot. I like it.

Have y'all decided what the economic basis for this setting is going to be, perchance? For instance, being a desert, I can see water being an important commodity, so powers that have access to water, and can control that access, could be significantly more affluent than others.

[Juhn]

I see a sea in the south. And a body of water that appears to be Great Lake-sized in the northwest as well.

Either of those freshwater?

[TheCheshireHat]

Hard to get a sense of scale on the map, but I´m guessing that the large body of water in the middle there is more of an inland sea than a lake?

I like the broken, scattered coastline. Much needed for secret islands, hidden coves and shipwrecks. The mountain range seems large and imposing, and tall enough to have permanently snowed peaks. Good, good.

The isthmus in the southwest looks like a prime spot for major political conflicts, and I´m extremely curious about the little piece of what looks like snow/ice to the southeast.

Also, I think the two eastern-most rivers actually joined halfway down is a nice touch :smallsmile:.

Can we have more stuffs please?

[afroakuma]

Have y'all decided what the economic basis for this setting is going to be, perchance? For instance, being a desert, I can see water being an important commodity, so powers that have access to water, and can control that access, could be significantly more affluent than others.

Still in committee.


Either of those freshwater?

Oh, probably. :smallwink:


Hard to get a sense of scale on the map

That bum. He removed the map scale! :smallsmile:


but I´m guessing that the large body of water in the middle there is more of an inland sea than a lake?

That would be correct. What you're looking at is a continent.


The isthmus in the southwest looks like a prime spot for major political conflicts, and I´m extremely curious about the little piece of what looks like snow/ice to the southeast.

Oh, the isthmus has been talked about. It's one of my pet projects. As for what's below... mountains? A whole 'nother Arctic continent? Hmm... :smallcool:


Can we have more stuffs please?

Wha... you got this less than half an hour ago.

My god, how did you survive waiting until now?

[Athaniar]

This is looking more and more interesting (and it was very interesting already at the start). Eagerly looking forward to new material.

[Juhn]

The bottom-right corner confuses me. It would seem to be frozen, which means it's probably near one of the poles. The bottom-left corner, on the other hannd, is quite green, while one would assume it's at the same latitude.

[afroakuma]

I wonder if the white spots could be something other than snow and ice...?

[Glenstorm]

I believe my keen eye has spotted a region that looks quite important, due to the local geography/presence of water

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Glenstorm/HoZ5.jpg

Don't hurt me I voted for saberdusk

[Juhn]

And it even has a small bay, as well. At least, I think that's a bay. And it leads more-or-less directly to that mysterious white area.

[Zeta Kai]

The bottom-right corner confuses me. It would seem to be frozen, which means it's probably near one of the poles. The bottom-left corner, on the other hannd, is quite green, while one would assume it's at the same latitude.

England is on the same latitude as Siberia & central Canada. The British Isles are kept warm by ocean currents coming from equatorial regions. Tundral conditions are not universal by latitude, as mitigating factors can come into play. A view of the rest of the world of Siraaj will make this more clear.

[Juhn]

That's true.

I suppose I should refrain from asking such questions until we see a world map.

Though, if that is supposed to be tundra after all, then is this continent in the southern hemisphere?

[Zeta Kai]

Though, if that is supposed to be tundra after all, then is this continent in the southern hemisphere?

I don't have my stamp on me, but YES. The mountains are equatorial.

[afroakuma]

I do. No guarantees on a tundra, but


Yes.

The mountain range is approximately at the equator. This continent is in the southern hemisphere.

[insecure]

England is on the same latitude as Siberia & central Canada. The British Isles are kept warm by ocean currents coming from equatorial regions. Tundral conditions are not universal by latitude, as mitigating factors can come into play. A view of the rest of the world of Siraaj will make this more clear.

I saw what you did!

[afroakuma]

Lies. Siraaj, eh?

[TheCheshireHat]

Still in committee.
Wha... you got this less than half an hour ago.

My god, how did you survive waiting until now?


Coffee and sheer willpower :smallwink:

And anyway, I got more stuffs already! I like the name :smallsmile:

Lets see if I can pull this off again...

Can we have more stuffs please?

http://gallery.racoonfink.com/d/9574-5/shrek-2-puss-in-boots

Pretty please?

[afroakuma]

No. Wait until the main spoiler is posted.

That includes certain other persons.

[Mercenary Pen]

Question about the map: Any reason there are no large rivers radiating to the north and east of the main continent?

[afroakuma]

*shrug* It's a desert. Somewhere had to have less water.

Read:

because.

[Juhn]

I thought it was called "Berdusk". Or is that the name of the continent?
The largest city-state? The plane?

[afroakuma]

Lies. Slander. Propaganda. Berdusk is a region. I think I indicated that.

[Thane of Fife]

That main continent gives me the willies. Something about that one mountain - it looks like a giant, crazed eye.

And the lake looks like a big gaping mouth.

[Owrtho]

Ya know, if the lower portion you can't see is also a triangle it sorta looks like an *stabs hand to prevent typing of blasphemy*

Sorry bout that. Anyways, if those white spots (or atleast some of the) are something other thn snow or ice, then that could be looked into. So far I can only think of clouds (which would seem odd to draw on a map) or a desert of white ash.

Also, what's with all the green? That almost looks like there could be a contenant down there that does not have desert constituting the majority of its landmass...

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

We may never know. Or we might be planning a jungle to justify druids in the setting. Either or.
And yes, I just love white sand. Perfect, white sand.

Salt flats, too. Love those.

[Lord_Gareth]

Will you, at any point, be accepting community write-ins and ideas, even if it's only to tweak 'em?

[afroakuma]

We did that. That was the brainstorm.

For some reason, the first 24 hours were pretty wasted. :smallconfused::smallwink:

What did you have in mind?

[Lord_Gareth]

I dunno, I just come up with things at random. I had a rather striking mental image of a caravan walking through the desert and meeting a man dressed completely wrong for the heat, but he doesn't seem uncomfortable at all. When they pass, he tips his hat - and the entire caravan erupts into flames. He plucks out a burning brand, puts it in his mouth, replaces his hat upon his head, and walks on.

More concrete things to come; I'm a spontaenous designer.

[afroakuma]

Well, it is a discussion thread, and I won't discourage people from discussing.

But the stamps will not be coming to this thread.

[Lord_Gareth]

The Yes/No ones?

Thing is, you didn't request all that much from the community. I, for one, would love to be able to actively participate...at the same time, I still want to be surprised. That's why I asked if you'd be considering write-ins - not unconditionally, but on a case-by-case basis. It gives the community something to do besides pester you every 5 minutes for information, and it gives you more material to work with.

[afroakuma]

The Yes/No ones?

The same. Also that other one, but we won't go there. There is only one circumstance under which a Big Yes or Big No will drop on this thread, and itwon't come up for a while.


Thing is, you didn't request all that much from the community.

Technically, we requested everything that wasn't nailed down.


I, for one, would love to be able to actively participate...

We've had a few people say likewise. It's great that we have so many people wanting to help, and if we ever do it again we may be more inclined to tap the community's aid.


at the same time, I still want to be surprised. That's why I asked if you'd be considering write-ins - not unconditionally, but on a case-by-case basis.

Like I said, you can post them here, or send them to... probably me, since I'm the most active of us.


It gives the community something to do besides pester you every 5 minutes for information, and it gives you more material to work with.

No, I expect that that will happen anyway.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright, then what would you, as a designer, prefer to be sent in? Little scenes for "concept shots"? Basic ideas? Detailed fluff? Crunch? Detailed fluff + crunch, a Lore table, and a sample encounter?

[afroakuma]

I'll look at anything, but I make no guarantees on any of it. Monsters will be glanced at and immediately handed off to Zeta Kai for approval. And he may ignore his PM box unless I notify him at HQ. I would suggest erring on the side of less work, since it'll be less of a blow if it doesn't get used.

This is not a blanket encouragement of write-ins. However, if there's something you would like to write in, my PM box is open, as is this thread.

As a special bonus, I dredged up one of the early early messages from back when Steampunk was leading. This is what might have gone down:





Geography, I would say, should come immediately before Politics/Government.

Main Opposition describes the primary antagonists of the world. Examples:

Dragonlance: Draconians/Dragons
Forgotten Realms: Well-organized human evil.
Greyhawk: Big Bad Empires
Dark Sun: Defilers/Tyr
Spelljammer: Neogi, scro, mind flayers

Perfect. I'm crafting a list of all the upcoming polls. I'll run them by you as they come up. Here's the one for tomorrow, assuming Victorian/SP still wins:

{table=head]Themes|Votes
Phantasmagoria: mediums, ghosts, & séances, spiritualism, the occult, & exploitation of the Final Threshold in scientific applications|
Mechanisms: clockwork & steam-driven technology|
Gothic Horror: vampires, gargoyles, & werewolves|
Travel: exploration, exotic colonial lands, & the fear of the unknown|
Academia: printings, dusty tomes, forgotten lore, the written word, detective work, & informed research|
Gas-Lamp Science: exploiting alchemy to craft pseudoscientific marvels|[/table]

Thoughts?

[Lord_Gareth]

What about things that straddle the line between monster and race?

In any event, I've got a few ideas that may be posted in the next day/few hours.

Also Afro, do you ever sleep?

[Magnor Criol]

Damn, now I almost wish steampunk had won, I'd love to play that Academia theme. That's right up my alley (and that of most of my characters - I usually play high-Int chars...)

afro's right, write-in or no write-in encouragement there'd still be a constant cry for info. We're human, after all. =p

I think part of the reason you got so little response during the "brainstorming" session is the time constraint. That's a bit of a short time to come up with a solid idea to pitch out, especially when we knew so little of what was going down.

[afroakuma]

What about things that straddle the line between monster and race?

I review it as a race, then pass it to Zeta for monster review.


In any event, I've got a few ideas that may be posted in the next day/few hours.

Alright.


Also Afro, do you ever sleep?

It's possible. 14 minutes from now, I will be in bed, yes.

[afroakuma]

I think part of the reason you got so little response during the "brainstorming" session is the time constraint. That's a bit of a short time to come up with a solid idea to pitch out, especially when we knew so little of what was going down.

The other part, of course, is that everyone wanted more info, more [NOUN] etc. before contributing. :smallamused:

[Ziegander]

I'm lurking around these threads as I am quite eager to see what Hourglass of the Gods has waiting in the wings.

Just one small suggestion: Perhaps you can have easter egg material in the form of concessions to close votes, where the runners-up in each of the VUACS voting sessions gets some part of the existing campaign world designed specifically with them in mind.

For example: Victorian/Steampunk nearly won out as the genre. Perhaps there is a collection of individuals, a guild, or even a settlement, which is very victorian/steampunk-esque. Perhaps a region (small) even.

Since Low Magic was rather close to Moderate Magic perhaps areas of low magic, or maybe just a nation or city, could be present.

One single god is the primary religion of course, but infinite gods was a very close second. Perhaps there is a sect (powerful perhaps) that worships these infinite gods. Incorporating them in some way better validates the setting's name for sure.

And, the obvious, a nod to Saberdusk wouldn't be too much to ask would it? :smallwink:

[horngeek]

Is the Executioner going to be in this campaign setting? (it's late in Aus, so please don't kill me if this was a stupid question)

[afroakuma]

Just one small suggestion: Perhaps you can have easter egg material in the form of concessions to close votes, where the runners-up in each of the VUACS voting sessions gets some part of the existing campaign world designed specifically with them in mind.


We're not going to go this route. Steampunk elements will not be included. There is one god and no infinite gods/angels/whatever. I refuse to bring out the stamp on this.

The nod to Saberdusk was because that was my choice for a name, selected because I had planned the Berdusk region already.

Horngeek: it's been answered in another thread, I think, but: no, the Executioner is Shadow's own thing. It will not be part of the campaign setting.

[Lappy9000]

Oh glorious of glorious McGlories! I've been watching this for a while, but seeing that map really shows that you guys are in fact completely insane determined in your efforts of Vote Up a Campaign Setting.

I look forward to watching this world come into being!

[afroakuma]

Oh, we're pushing it, Lappy. That's only one fragment of one world's map; less than a sixth, I believe.

[Lappy9000]

Oh, we're pushing it, Lappy. That's only one fragment of one world's map; less than a sixth, I believe.

I wouldn't have believed any less.

So, is there anything astounding about the world's construction? You know:

* Is it the normal spherical shape?
* Is there an Underdark?
* Do the normal rules for a world's ecology still apply here?
* Has anything been blasted to pieces (like continent-size pieces)?
* Is it possible to walk right into the Ying/Yang plane?
* Is it's head. Cut. Off?
You don't need to feel compelled to answer these; they're more for brainstorming than anything.

[afroakuma]

• Is it the normal spherical shape?

I believe so; neither of the others has suggested anything else.

• Is there an Underdark?

Oh, quite likely. Caverns are very important. Sure, some may be giant magical talking tiger heads, but... :smallwink:

• Do the normal rules for a world's ecology still apply here?

As a general rule, yes. There are certain exceptions.

• Has anything been blasted to pieces?

Backstory's been one of my pet projects, and so far it's shaping up to be a no.

• Is it possible to walk right into the Yin/Yang plane?

:smallwink:

[Lappy9000]

• Is there an Underdark?

Oh, quite likely. Caverns are very important. Sure, some may be giant magical talking tiger heads, but... :smallwink:

I think I just realized what an awesome dungeon that would make. All that gold and the player's can't touch any of it. That's almost bordering on mean, although I bet it could spark some very creative solutions to get all of that gold out of there.

[Pronounceable]

The other part, of course, is that everyone wanted more info, more [NOUN] etc. before contributing. :smallamused:

Thing is, I could've suggested a mysterious cult of assasins who wield invisible scimitars (or a desert hermit who was once a djinni sultan cursed and exiled into the wastes, or an organization of favored women from various rulers' harems who subtly pry info from their men and sell it in blackmarket, or... you get the idea) at any time, but I had (have) no idea if that'd fit the setting.

Of course, if you allow random joe #42 to write whatever stuff occurs to him at any time, you'll get 30 pages of stuff (15 pages of which will inevitably contain hourglasses) sift through. Which'd be no fun. You're probably better off doing all the work yourselves.

[afroakuma]

Of course, if you allow random joe #42 to write whatever stuff occurs to him at any time, you'll get 30 pages of stuff (15 pages of which will inevitably contain [NOUN]) sift through. Which'd be no fun. You're probably better off doing all the work yourselves.

There is that risk. Hence, my PM box as an option. That way, I can just delete anything that mentions [NOUN].

But again, that sort of thing would have been great during the brainstorm. We wanted people to just throw out ideas, regardless of whether or not they would fit. The sole exceptions were mentioned very early on, but we had to spend a day fighting that battle because people kept arguing the point.

[Mercenary Pen]

Are there any plans to run inaugural play-by-post campaigns within the setting as tests of how well the flavour works? because you really need an excuse to run campaigns in your own handmade setting

Also, this region of 'Berdusk', its design intent wasn't to make everyone 'say Berdusk' perchance? I caught your nod to the setting name you preferred! Don't try to deny it

[Juhn]

I know I'm certainly hoping for an -itP campaign in this setting.

[afroakuma]

No, as I said, I planned the region name first and evolved a possible setting title from that.

[Mercenary Pen]

I know I'm certainly hoping for an -itP campaign in this setting.

Same here, 4e in my case- on the grounds that I've only just gotten into D&D with 4e (from Neverwinter Nights of all places...)

[bue52]

Is there any plans for the icy part of the map?

Are there lakes in the continent, just that they are too small to be noticed in the scale of the continent, or is it supposed to be THAT barren in some places?

[afroakuma]

Is there any plans for the icy part of the map?

There are plans for me to continue hinting that it might not be ice...


Are there lakes in the continent, just that they are too small to be noticed in the scale of the continent, or is it supposed to be THAT barren in some places?

Welcome to the desert. :smallsmile:

[XiaoTie]

There are plans for me to continue hinting that it might not be ice...

Would that be related to you previously mentioning some sort of salt flats? :smallbiggrin:

[afroakuma]

I'm glad some people listen to me. :smalltongue:

[XiaoTie]

An area that huge made entirely of salt. Now THAT is a place I'd like to see, or play the adventures in it.

[Magnor Criol]

I'm glad some people listen to me. :smalltongue:

Eh, we come in and out. =p

I'm sorry, I know you've said this before, but I've lost track: When is your rough estimate for completion?

[afroakuma]

I'm hoping late December. We have a lot of monsters to get done, along with tinkering with PrC's, regional feats, 4E conversions and of course the not-mentioned but prodigious mountain of fluff that I'm going to have to churn out. :smalleek:

[Magnor Criol]

Which is why I will be duly impressed if you do manage it all by December. I know y'all's standards, you aren't going to scrimp, so if you get it all up to par by then it'll be really something.

I know I'm going to be impressed, regardless of time, with the end product. Just late December will be extra impressive. :smallbiggrin:


What we voted on are going to be the main races, the setting-specific classes, etc., if I understood things right, but are there going to be races or classes that are specifically banned from appearance here?

Also, with only two planes - again, assuming I understood the the yin/yang thing right - how are you handling the myriad outsiders, and how do summoning spells work?

[afroakuma]

Which is why I will be duly impressed if you do manage it all by December. I know y'all's standards, you aren't going to scrimp, so if you get it all up to par by then it'll be really something.

I know I'm going to be impressed, regardless of time, with the end product. Just late December will be extra impressive.

It helps that I don't have a life. :smalltongue:


What we voted on are going to be the main races, the setting-specific classes, etc., if I understood things right, but are there going to be races or classes that are specifically banned from appearance here?

Psionics is... highly discouraged, since I'll only inflame anyone if I say "ban." Other than that, it's basically a logical flavor issue in each DM's court. Myself, I'd exclude elves, knights, samurai etc. because I don't believe they fit.


Also, with only two planes - again, assuming I understood the the yin/yang thing right - how are you handling the myriad outsiders, and how do summoning spells work?

We've determined a way to handle which outsiders will be allowed in. Especially important to nail down early, since half-djinni are a playable race.

[Zeta Kai]

What we voted on are going to be the main races, the setting-specific classes, etc., if I understood things right, but are there going to be races or classes that are specifically banned from appearance here?

Wh-Where are all the gnomes? What? Whadya mean there are no gnomes? :smallbiggrin:

[Shadow_Elf]

Wh-Where are all the gnomes? What? Whadya mean there are no gnomes? :smallbiggrin:

Back in the Monster Manual where they belong :smallamused:.

[afroakuma]

*sigh* I'm actually going to have to give 4E the point for that.

[Mercenary Pen]

Interesting- the build team seem to have divided opinions on the subject of gnomes but then again, gnomes are the most likely culprits to have produced timepieces of any variety...

[Luean]

It helps that I don't have a life. :smalltongue:


Who needs a life, when he can homebrew all day?

[MammonAzrael]

Back in the Monster Manual where they belong :smallamused:.

What do you mean back? They've been a PC race, in the PHB since 2nd at least (haven't played first, so can't attest to that). Were they in the 1st edition Monster Manual (and not available as a PC)?

[Shadow_Elf]

What do you mean back? They've been a PC race, in the PHB since 2nd at least (haven't played first, so can't attest to that). Were they in the 1st edition Monster Manual (and not available as a PC)?

I meant Back of the Monster Manual. Which I guess is even worse.

[Thane of Fife]

Were they in the 1st edition Monster Manual (and not available as a PC)?

I'm almost certain they were PCs in 1st Edition, where I believe they were added to help distinguish the game from Tolkien.

My personal theory is that gnomes are generally disliked because they have neither the bad-ass quality of dwarves and half-orcs, nor the sex appeal (or at least the possibility thereof) of elves, half-elves, and halflings. The gnomes are generally relegated to being the ugly stepchild, forced into acting as comic relief.

[Magnor Criol]

Yeah, overall gnomes are mostly relegated to comic relief, I think because of their body structure - awkwardly large head and large facial features, short...their rather silly racial abilities don't help either (Speak with Burrowing Animals? Really?) Still, I like them overall.

[Zeta Kai]

My personal theory is that gnomes are generally disliked because they have neither the bad-ass quality of dwarves and half-orcs, nor the sex appeal (or at least the possibility thereof) of elves, half-elves, and halflings. The gnomes are generally relegated to being the ugly stepchild, forced into acting as comic relief.

I'm sure that this is why they didn't make the cut in the Race vote. Many people feel this way, myself included. Of course, if they had been selected, we would have used Whisper Gnomes...

[TheCheshireHat]

My personal theory is that gnomes are generally disliked because they have neither the bad-ass quality of dwarves and half-orcs, nor the sex appeal (or at least the possibility thereof) of elves, half-elves, and halflings. The gnomes are generally relegated to being the ugly stepchild, forced into acting as comic relief.

I am thoroughly confused and slightly disturbed.

But I agree. Gnomes just don´t really have their own schtick, besides comic relief. And comic relief races only work if they have something else going for them. Kenders, for instance. Kinda sad really, because gnomes could be made into something interesting.

Sooo, what about that spoiler that was being talked about earlier (I know, I know, I have a one-track mind for some things.)

[afroakuma]

*sigh* We're getting there. Don't worry.

[Juhn]

I am thoroughly confused and slightly disturbed.

Every so often, that Lidda doesn't look half-bad...

[Fako]

Every so often, that Lidda doesn't look half-bad...

But isn't that because Lidda only has half as much going for her than a human woman would? I mean, it's easy to overlook how a dwarf looks by simply looking over their heads.. :smallamused:

[Shadow_Elf]

Sooo, what about that spoiler that was being talked about earlier (I know, I know, I have a one-track mind for some things.)

I have a little something to reveal for all of the 4e players following VUACS:

Warlocks:

Warlocks in Hourglass of Zihaja have a slightly different spin on them. With only two opposing planes, there lacks a Feywild, Far Realm and Shadowfell from which to get their powers. Because of this, the pacts that they make must take on a different spin. The Infernal Pact will stay very much the same; a mortal makes a pact with a devil in order to gain access to hellishly painful powers and abilities. This, however, is the only pact that will be left untouched.

The ever-popular Star Pact, loved for its Lovecraftian themes and eerie fluff will become the Deva Pact. Even Good Outsiders can grant you power for a price, and Devas tend to be the most benevolent of Warlock patrons. The Star Pact's powers will be slightly refluffed as a result (some keywords and damage types may be changed, but it will stay fundamentally the same)

The naughty and mischievous Fey Pact is also being reworked. It will instead be turned into the Genie Pact, and its powers will take on a larger range of elements. Genies are willing to give mortals plenty of power... for a price. The new fluff for the Genie Pact Warlock will reflect this.

Finally, the Dark Pact, created by the evil Drow and available only to owners of the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. It is being transformed into the sinister Ghul-Pact. More on this later folks, since the Ghul's fluff is still somewhat of a mystery!

I hope you have enjoyed this little peek into the reflavouring of existing material for the setting.

This announcement was brought to you by the Build Team.

[afroakuma]

As well as the letter W and the number 3! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDm0PqjAF78)

[Alteran]

Excitement!

I'm glad to see you're getting somewhere with this. :smallwink:

I like warlocks, and this seems like a nice flavour-change. Nothing too big for how you play one in combat, but significant enough for role-playing. As one of the many (I'm sure) 4e players looking forward to this campaign setting, I was very glad to see this. It's just fluff, but it's something. (Hint-hint, can I see some crunch? :smallbiggrin:) I appreciate what you have shown us, but that just makes me wonder about what you're not showing us. Best of luck in your work!

[afroakuma]

(Hint-hint, can I see some crunch? :smallbiggrin:)

The word "no" comes to mind. Bolded. Centered. In five-point.

A proper spoiler will appear in due course, but asking about it won't get you anywhere.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright, the idea I had earlier has coalesced into an organization!

Sandmen
"Kill you? I won't lay a finger on you. I swear."

The Sandmen are a guild of assasins, but they are also so much more. Travelers, smugglers, explorers, bodyguards and even priests, the Sandmen are the self-appointed representatives of the desert, survival of the fittest given sentience and malice.

The Sandmen were founded long ago by an outcast mage. Angry and bitter at his tribe, he stalked them for days and afflicted them with disaster after disaster until they succumbed to starvation and ruin. Deciding he liked his new talent for theatrical overkill, he took up banditry in a much similar manner, picking off caravans in the middle of the desert wastes. Eventually, he took on an apprentice and began raiding for payment at the behest of others.

The movement took on a life of its own, and now the Sandmen are a modestly sized criminal organization dedicated to assasination and raiding. Known for disguising their attacks as desert occurences, the Sandmen are seen as the heart and soul of discretion by the underworld community, and are generally only recognizeable by the small vial of desert sand each one keeps on his person. Sandmen never attack alone, preferring to use teams of spellcasters to inflict misfortunes or else carefully coordinated squads of desert warriors attacking from ambush. They always take half of the fee for a job first, and then the rest upon its completion; failure to pay is usually met with a grave misfortune, but then again, one should not walk out in a sandstorm, no?

[afroakuma]

A full organization. Much more potential. Certainly capable of working with two of our advanced classes.

[Lord_Gareth]

A full organization. Much more potential. Certainly capable of working with two of our advanced classes.

Does that translate to, "I'll show this to the other designers and see what they think?"

*/hope*

[afroakuma]

That translates to:

I'm currently reading Ender's Game. If you have, you'll know what sort of mood I intend to instill.

If not, it translates to:

The other designers may see it, they may not. I will make no public statement on it, nor will anyone else from the build team.

[Juhn]

As well as the letter W and the number 3! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDm0PqjAF78)

That was... Really, really trippy afroakuma. And mildly unsettling.

[afroakuma]

What, you never watched Sesame Street?

[Juhn]

Yes, I did. Never saw that, though.

It reminded me more of Schoolhouse Rock than it did Sesame Street, though it was a little more acid-trip.

[afroakuma]

Wow... I'm surprised. I can't remember a Sesame Street without that in it. Granted, that was a compilation of all of them, but still.

[Juhn]

...I got the "brought to you by" reference. That was in every single one. The video itself, not so much.

[Alteran]

The word "no" comes to mind. Bolded. Centered. In five-point.

A proper spoiler will appear in due course, but asking about it won't get you anywhere.

Don't worry Afro, my intent is not to bother you all endlessly. I just felt like I wouldn't belong in this thread if I didn't do it once.

To be on-topic, I have a few ideas that I think would be interesting, but I'll wait until I'm more awake to write them up.

[TheCheshireHat]

Very nice work on the warlock fluff there. I suspected a Genie pact would show up at some point or another, but I´m glad to see it confirmed.:smallsmile:

[Mr.Bookworm]

Suggestion

For gnome flavor. You seem to be somewhat divided on the issue of gnomes, and I was looking at their racial entry, and they seem near perfectly suited for a desert campaign, with minimal to no adapting.

What follows is a detailed step-by-step analysis of a gnome's racial abilities for use in a desert, followed by a summary where I present my idea.


+2 Constitution, -2 Strength.

Constitution is one of the most important attributes for the average Commoner in a desert. It helps with everything from dehydration to simply being able to keep walking.


Small: As a Small creature, a gnome gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.

See end summary.


Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.

Ho, hum.


Low-Light Vision: A gnome can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Always useful, and I can imagine groups in the desert moving at night if the heat is really bad. Also makes some sense in the context I present.


Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons.

Ho, hum.


+2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.

I'll explain this at the end.


Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects.

Again, this'll be explained at the end.


+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids.

I recommend striking this, unless you have fluff that it makes sense for.


+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.

Again, I recommend taking this out, unless you have aforementioned fluff that makes sense.


+2 racial bonus on Listen checks.

I'm a little unclear on how this would fit in, myself. What I was able to think of is that a desert-faring culture, at certain times, would need to rely on their sense of hearing, when their sense of sight was unavailable due to duststorms and such. Might want to remove it.


+2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.

I recommend striking it. It basically is encouraging the stereotypical mad scientist gnome, which I want to avoid at all costs.


Automatic Languages: Common and Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. In addition, a gnome can speak with a burrowing mammal (a badger, fox, rabbit, or the like, see below). This ability is innate to gnomes. See the speak with animals spell description.

Ho, hum.


Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.

Will definitely be explained at the end. Though I find the burrowing animal thing a bit silly myself.


Favored Class: Bard. A multiclass gnome’s bard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.

Meh. I personally would change it to illusionist, based on my idea.

So, if anyone has actually bothered to read up to this point, here's my idea. Underground illusionists. Think about it. Living underground would negate many of the disadvantages of the desert. This also explains the burrowing animals, and small size. Gnomes would not be tricksters, usually, but use illusions to defend their underground cities.

So, that's my two cents.

*cough*

[afroakuma]

Not that we're concerned: There are no gnomes in this setting. None.

[Pronounceable]

So there are "outsiders" in addition to djinns. And traditional (?) devils and angels to boot. Are they traditional DnD devils and angels? If they are, they both live in the other plane. I read it as "we can haz Blood War". Which'd make the other plane very hazardous to people from this one. What'd the djinns say to that (assuming djinns are also outsiders and not native to this plane)?

Plus we have ghuls (whatever they exactly are). Where do they fit with all these guys? Traditional ghoul of Arabian Nights is quite similar to gehreleths afair (no doubt you've modified them, but still). The other plane seems pretty messed up looking at the inhabitants.

And the whole "outsider" thing. They're "outsiders" because they're from the "other" plane. So when we're over there, they are natives and we gotta be outsiders. Any other way doesn't seem plausible with only two planes and an "outsider" concept.
...
Yeah, I like cosmology. So what?

[afroakuma]

I'll get to all of these questions when I get back. In about 9 to 13 hours from now. :smallfrown: (Baaaad day coming)

[Mr.Bookworm]

Not that we're concerned: There are no gnomes in this setting. None.

Wait, what?

Aren't the core races in there along side the new ones?

...

Well, that was a total waste of a good ten minutes.

[puppyavenger]

Wait, what?

Aren't the core races in there along side the new ones?

...

Well, that was a total waste of a good ten minutes.

the core races were on the voting list, humans were the only ones guaranteed (for some reason)

[afroakuma]

Alright, I'm back far earlier than I expected, though in an excruciatingly bad mood. Try not to take it personally if I seem to snap at you for the next few hours or so.

[Magnor Criol]

Well, that was a total waste of a good ten minutes.

Ten minutes? :smallconfused:

I'm pretty interested in the cosmology answers myself. I eagerly anticipate the explanation.

[Hope you had] Good luck on whatever it is you have had today, afro. (Is it finals?)

-E- Ninja'd by afro himself.

[afroakuma]

No, I finished finals yesterday. This was medical. Thank God for the speed of our medical system.


So there are "outsiders" in addition to djinns. And traditional (?) devils and angels to boot. Are they traditional DnD devils and angels?

You mean, are they from the Monster Manual? Yes.


If they are, they both live in the other plane.

Also true, with occasional exceptions.


I read it as "we can haz Blood War".

No, I think we've done something more interesting.


Which'd make the other plane very hazardous to people from this one.

Only in certain places. I'd say they're near even. What that says about this plane, I don't even want to guess.


What'd the djinns say to that (assuming djinns are also outsiders and not native to this plane)?

They're also involved. Why do all my extraplanar races start with a D?


Plus we have ghuls (whatever they exactly are).

Ugly, that's what they are. :smallsmile:


Where do they fit with all these guys? Traditional ghoul of Arabian Nights is quite similar to gehreleths afair (no doubt you've modified them, but still).

Interesting. We didn't go in that direction. Gehreleths will not be in the setting.


The other plane seems pretty messed up looking at the inhabitants.

A) You don't know the half of it.

B) It's really quite functional and elegant. I prefer it.


And the whole "outsider" thing. They're "outsiders" because they're from the "other" plane. So when we're over there, they are natives and we gotta be outsiders. Any other way doesn't seem plausible with only two planes and an "outsider" concept.

"Outsider" will be refined as a term to accomodate the functionality and background of this setting. Those traveling from one plane to the other may acquire the Extraplanar subtype, but that which is an Outsider remains an Outsider.

[Zeta Kai]

Attention, Built Team: check out the new material @ HQ.

Everyone else here can salivate in anticipation.

[afroakuma]

Spotted, commented.

Holy massive update, Batman!

[AgentPaper]

Gnomes are in the MM in 4E. They would make a perfect little sneaky guy that goes around making desert mirages to lure in the unwary, then ambush. If they were used as a monster in 4E, would they be made as a monster race in 3.5?

[afroakuma]

Nope. Gnomes, elves and halflings are not in the setting in any edition, in any capacity.
Sorry.

[Mewtarthio]

Nope. Gnomes, elves and halflings are not in the setting in any edition, in any capacity.
Sorry.

Don't you mean

GNO?

[afroakuma]

Said I wouldn't use it.

[Juhn]

From what I know, Kobolds were inserted in order to make them the "sneaky race", and I approve of this decision. Fully half the races do not look anything like a human.

Half-Ghul count for the .5 on either side in my book.

[afroakuma]

...they're all anthropomorphic...

[Vic_Sage]

From what I know, Kobolds were inserted in order to make them the "sneaky race", and I approve of this decision. Fully half the races do not look anything like a human.

Half-Ghul count for the .5 on either side in my book.
Thankfully, now if only we could have gotten rid of humans.....

[Magnor Criol]

For those who don't like the gno decision on gnomes, realize:
All the niches gnomes fill are being filled by other races, I'm sure;
You're free to not play the setting if it irks you that much; and
If you really, really want gnomes in the world, you can homebrew them into the setting yourself when you start playing with it. (Assuming Zeta, Shadow & afro haven't made some sort of explicitly gnome-targeted reason why they don't exist...)

That's how any of the noncore races happen in any game, after all - they're ruled to be a part of the world despite that the setting (probably) didn't explicitly mention them when it was written.


Thankfully, now if only we could have gotten rid of humans.....

Then I think this setting would've sucked, frankly. Yes, humans are the most commonly chosen race. Their numerical superiority doesn't make them inherently bad. Pound-for-pound they're the most versatile, adaptable race and they're frankly usually just as fun to play as another +0 LA race with special abilities but no bonus feat or skills.

Without humans, this world would also be much less accessible to newer players, since many would rather take a human for their extra feat than any others.

Besides - one of the biggest things that draw people to DnD is playing a "normal" human being surviving amid, and even besting, supernatural creatures. Triumph of the underdog, and all that jazz.

[Juhn]

...they're all anthropomorphic...

Yes, but you see, with elves you've got slightly shorter, slighter humans with pointy ears. With Dwarves, you've got shorter, stockier humans with long beards. With halflings, you've basically just got tiny, sneaky humans. Gnomes, you've once again got tiny humans, apparently with comically oversized heads as well.

Gnolls, Lizardmen, Kobolds, etc do not have this problem.

[Zeta Kai]

Yes, but you see, with elves you've got slightly shorter, slighter humans with pointy ears. With Dwarves, you've got shorter, stockier humans with long beards. With halflings, you've basically just got tiny, sneaky humans. Gnomes, you've once again got tiny humans, apparently with comically oversized heads as well.

Gnolls, Lizardmen, Kobolds, etc do not have this problem.

Agreed. I'm quite happy with the racial selection that was voted upon. We've got a number of very interesting options, for a number of different play styles. I'm sure most of you will be pleased by this setting's unique feel.

[Juhn]

I'm more than pleased with our current racial selection as well. I'm still anxiously awaiting the opportunity to crank out a Lizardman and get playing in this setting.

[Shadow_Elf]

Yes, but you see, with elves you've got slightly shorter, slighter humans with pointy ears. With Dwarves, you've got shorter, stockier humans with long beards. With halflings, you've basically just got tiny, sneaky humans. Gnomes, you've once again got tiny humans, apparently with comically oversized heads as well.

Gnolls, Lizardmen, Kobolds, etc do not have this problem.

My take on things:

Golbins are small Hobgoblins (both Goblinoid)
Halflings are small Humans (look similar)
Kobolds are small Dragonborn (both dragonoid)
Gnomes are small Elves (both fey)

[Juhn]

Gnomes are fey? Is this just a 4e thing, or did I entirely miss that?

[starwoof]

I think he means they are both fae in folklore?

[Mr.Bookworm]

the core races were on the voting list, humans were the only ones guaranteed (for some reason)

*headdesk*

Well, that was stupid of me.


Ten minutes?

The ten minutes it took me to write up the gnome thing.


For those who don't like the gno decision on gnomes, realize:

Oh, I have no problem with it, I just like using gnomes in roles that aren't tinkerers/pranksters.


Gnomes are fey? Is this just a 4e thing, or did I entirely miss that?

It's a 4e thing.

[Thane of Fife]

I am thoroughly confused and slightly disturbed.

What I meant is that it's much less painful to imagine a romance between two halflings than between two gnomes. You can imagine a halfling being a sexy person, but smaller. That's harder with gnomes.


As well as the letter W and the number 3!

I remember that!


If you really, really want gnomes in the world, you can homebrew them into the setting yourself when you start playing with it. (Assuming Zeta, Shadow & afro haven't made some sort of explicitly gnome-targeted reason why they don't exist...)

"And as the world slowly turned to desert, the people were forced to eat all of the gnomes. And there was much rejoicing."


Oh, I have no problem with it, I just like using gnomes in roles that aren't tinkerers/pranksters.

I think that my favorite method of using gnomes was to treat them as beings obsessed with the difference between truth and falsehood. Everything is both real and not real until you've closely examined it. A king advised by identical twins - a diviner and an illusionist - that he might better learn to tell fact from fiction.

Humans are obsessed with surviving past their deaths; gnomes are obsessed with surviving until them, because if people don't believe in you, you never know when you might stop being real.

[Vic_Sage]

Then I think this setting would've sucked, frankly. Yes, humans are the most commonly chosen race. Their numerical superiority doesn't make them inherently bad. Pound-for-pound they're the most versatile, adaptable race and they're frankly usually just as fun to play as another +0 LA race with special abilities but no bonus feat or skills.

Without humans, this world would also be much less accessible to newer players, since many would rather take a human for their extra feat than any others.

Besides - one of the biggest things that draw people to DnD is playing a "normal" human being surviving amid, and even besting, supernatural creatures. Triumph of the underdog, and all that jazz.
Then give a new race the human racial features or something and I play 4E so I don't have to deal with the stupidity of LA (Not trying to turn this into a Edition war). I'm friking sick of seeing humans all the time, I'm a god damn human an dsee them everyday. Its the same reason I have beef with games like Mass Effect, KotOR, and 90% of all campaign settings, Humans are all ways so great, Humans are all ways the underdogs, humans humans humans humans humans. God I hate them so.

*Just a note I actually love all the other Race selections*

[Juhn]

I'm forced to give the obvious answer: Then don't play one. Play a gnoll, or something.

What do you care if the NPC shopkeeper is a human or a kobold?

[Vic_Sage]

I'm forced to give the obvious answer: Then don't play one. Play a gnoll, or something.

What do you care if the NPC shopkeeper is a human or a kobold?
Thing is, I didn't wanna see em period and was hoping something else would take its place.

But I'm obviously in the minority so I'll shut up and stop bringing it up.

[TheCheshireHat]

What I meant is that it's much less painful to imagine a romance between two halflings than between two gnomes. You can imagine a halfling being a sexy person, but smaller. That's harder with gnomes.


Thank you Thane for the mental images. I do concede the point, although I´d say that halfling err... romance is more painful to imagine than elf or human romance, by a degree roughly equal to the difference between halfling and gnomish romance.



"And as the world slowly turned to desert, the people were forced to eat all of the gnomes. And there was much rejoicing."


:biggrin:

[Zeta Kai]

I'm sorry that I ever mentioned the dreaded G-word... :smallsigh:

[Owrtho]

Thing is, I didn't wanna see em period and was hoping something else would take its place.

But I'm obviously in the minority so I'll shut up and stop bringing it up.

I agree with you. I've gotten so sick of them that I actually want to make a humanoid free CS...

Owrtho

[puppyavenger]

I agree with you. I've gotten so sick of them that I actually want to make a humanoid free CS...

Owrtho

dragonsaberationsundead? who would be the enemies?

[Owrtho]

You forgot fay and plant among other things, and undead would be unlikely to be races. Though I ment humanoid not ony in type but also body structure. As for enemies, they would be the same largely. And as for this, it is off topic and I'd like to avoid derailing this thread (I'll likely make my own sometime soon anyways).
So, ontopic, any ideas what ghuls will be like?

Owrtho

[thegurullamen]

dragonsaberationsundead? who would be the enemies?

Awesome.

Constructs? Plants? The forces of good, nature and all that other Tolkien crap?

Seriously, who else wants to drop kick the Shire right back into labor camp mode? I can't be the only one.

[puppyavenger]

Awesome.

Constructs? Plants? The forces of good, nature and all that other Tolkien crap?

Seriously, who else wants to drop kick the Shire right back into labor camp mode? I can't be the only one.

turn the English countryside analogy into the slave labor camps?

also, who says that non-humanoids can't raise undead armies?

[Zeta Kai]

So, on-topic, any ideas what ghuls will be like?

They will be scary.

[Owrtho]

also, who says that non-humanoids can't raise undead armies?

Not sure, though if your reffering to what I said I only ment I wouldn't have them for players to be (at least not untill they died).

Owrtho

[HoundDog]

So, ontopic, any ideas what ghuls will be like?

Owrtho

I think that in a few Arabian tales they were corpse-eating djinn, although they were eventually replaced by ghouls in such tales as Arabian culture urbanised. Thats just from a few mythology books I have, but wikipedia says that ghul was the origional arabic name for ghouls (and that they were also corpse-eating spirits, though the meaning eventually changes). Still, aside from that, I haven't a clue.

[Vic_Sage]

Heres to hoping there not going to be the Drow of races (Wants to see more begign or at least neutral undead in CS's).

[Athaniar]

Then give a new race the human racial features or something and I play 4E so I don't have to deal with the stupidity of LA (Not trying to turn this into a Edition war). I'm friking sick of seeing humans all the time, I'm a god damn human an dsee them everyday. Its the same reason I have beef with games like Mass Effect, KotOR, and 90% of all campaign settings, Humans are all ways so great, Humans are all ways the underdogs, humans humans humans humans humans. God I hate them so.

*Just a note I actually love all the other Race selections*

I so agree with you. Let us start a resistance!

[Alteran]

If you really don't like humans, nobody is going to stop you from taking this setting (or any other) and deciding the humans are something completely different. It wouldn't be too hard, I imagine. Just remove every reference to humans, and replace it with your choice of race.

[Pronounceable]

I so agree with you. Let us start a resistance!

Resistance is futile! Humanity will triumph over lowly beasts.

[Mercenary Pen]

If you really don't like humans, nobody is going to stop you from taking this setting (or any other) and deciding the humans are something completely different. It wouldn't be too hard, I imagine. Just remove every reference to humans, and replace it with your choice of race.

Bear in mind that we voted in a ton of part-human races like Half-Djinn, Half-Ghul and Genasi, so they'd need their flavour tweaked to fit the race-change as well.

[Alteran]

Well, the human halves of those races could become whatever race they choose to replace humans. So Half-Guhl would just be half Guhl, and half (replacement for humans). I'll not deny that this would still require flavour tweaking, but this was started with flexibility in mind (it seems). It shouldn't be too hard to tweak.

As for Genasi, and I don't know about 3.X, but in 4e they're not part human. Humanoid, yes, but that's pretty much it.

[afroakuma]

What about if, instead of humans, we had an exotic race like... the Snamuh? These beings are anthropomorphic, with rounded ears, slightly browned skin, one nose, two eyes, one mouth, two arms, two hands with five fingers each...

[LordZarth]

What about if, instead of humans, we had an exotic race like... the Snamuh? These beings are anthropomorphic, with rounded ears, slightly browned skin, one nose, two eyes, one mouth, two arms, two hands with five fingers each...

ZOMG TAHTS SO COOL HOW CULD YU POSIBLY HAV THOUT OF IT????!!!!

afroakuma = /win

[TheCheshireHat]

What about if, instead of humans, we had an exotic race like... the Snamuh? These beings are anthropomorphic, with rounded ears, slightly browned skin, one nose, two eyes, one mouth, two arms, two hands with five fingers each...

Yes, I can see how that would work. I suppose these... Snamuh would have fairly unextraordinary physical and mental attributes, an average height somewhere between 5 foot 6 and 6 feet, hair colour varying between straw coloured and black, blue, green or brown eyes, and would live, on average, approximately 70 years.

They would also be used as a baseline for comparison with other races, as most descriptions would state, or imply, that elves, for instance, are more graceful than these Snamuh, or that dwarves are stronger and have a higher alcohol tolerance.

Ok, I´ll stop now.


Edit: Might as well say something on-topic.

I suppose ghuls are not going to be undead in the usual sense? Hell, are we even getting undead in this setting?

[Juhn]

...I just now noticed the anagram. On it's own, "Snamuh" is an awesome-sounding word, so I didn't clue in immediately.

[afroakuma]

I am that awesome.

CheshireHat: Oh yeah, there are going to be undead.

[Mercenary Pen]

Just got round to setting up the Character Builder this afternoon, so I've been- amongst other things- putting together some setting appropriate 4e character sheets (including a Gnoll battle cleric and namuh assault swordmage:smallwink:)...

Plan is, if somebody does run HoZ for 4e online, I can just tweak the builds slightly according to any house-rules they bring to the table (like replacing my Swordmage's Fullblade if they veto adventurer's vault material)...

Question is, does anyone else have favourite character ideas for this setting already (possibly this question's a little early for half-ghul and half-djinn fans)?

[Juhn]

I know I'm going to set up a Lizardman as soon as this gets worked out. Possibly a scout.

[Shadow_Elf]

The 4e stats of Gnolls and Kobolds have been changed.
So don't make any characters too prematurely.

[afroakuma]

Ladies and Gentlemen: We are now seeking an artist to draw imagery for the new races and classes. A thread has been posted regarding this.

Also, Shadow: That one idea you had, it was absolute gold. We must haz it.

[Szilard]

Ladies and Gentlemen: We are now seeking an artist to draw imagery for the new races and classes. A thread has been posted regarding this.
Where is this thread?

[afroakuma]

Well, it's up now. I am a liar and a thief. :smallsmile:
Except for the thief part.

[Shadow_Elf]

Also, Shadow: That one idea you had, it was absolute gold. We must haz it.

What idea was that? I'd like to think I've had a few...

[Mercenary Pen]

The 4e stats of Gnolls and Kobolds have been changed.
So don't make any characters too prematurely.

Blast, I only have Open Beta of the character builder and no money to spend paying WotC wages beyond buying books occasionally. I'd heard about the changes to Minotaurs, but not Kobolds and Gnolls.

[Szilard]

Blast, I only have Open Beta of the character builder and no money to spend paying WotC wages beyond buying books occasionally. I'd heard about the changes to Minotaurs, but not Kobolds and Gnolls.

I think he means thay were changed for this campaign setting only...

[Shadow_Elf]

I think he means thay were changed for this campaign setting only...

You get a cookie for understanding my intent.

Warning: Cookie May be Huge
http://www.driveinpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg

[Magnor Criol]

That cookie looks delicious.

Mmm hi-res chocolate goodness.

[Mercenary Pen]

I think he means thay were changed for this campaign setting only...

My mistake... I just remembered hearing about the other change (and hearing rumours that something similar for Bugbears was in the works) and took the wrong end of the stick... wrong stick as well no doubt

[Zeta Kai]

Shhh... hey guys... I think they're waiting for another teaser or spoiler or something. The coast is clear; we can come out now. :smallbiggrin:

[TheCheshireHat]

Teaser!? What!? When!? How!?

...

*looks around*

Oh...

*fades back into the shadows*

[Magnor Criol]

Traditionally, if I recall (though I'm hardly well-versed in Arabic history), most desert warriors wore little in the way of armor because putting a set of fullplate on would have been akin to putting yourself in a man-sized E-Z-Bake oven.

Is this going to be stressed in this setting (i.e. emphasis on overheating / dehydration rules, special armor that alleviates some of this problem, feats that represent desert-armor training or heat resistance, magic abilities/enhancements that cool the wearer, etc.)?

On a similar note: is this desert going to be like most natural deserts, in that it's blazing hot in the day and frigid at night? Temperature extremes could force adventuring parties to take interesting precautions.

[afroakuma]

There will be a reasonable amount of latent heat in most areas.

[Zeta Kai]

There will be a reasonable amount of latent heat in most areas.

And latent cold, too.

[Juhn]

This is only marginally relevant to this thread, but in the interest of an eventual PbP in this setting I suppose it counts: I've left a comment in the OOC thread of that game you're currently running, afroakuma, specifically regarding formatting and DM style.

[afroakuma]

I'll take a look, Juhn.

[Magnor Criol]

More curiosity.

Are any of y'all's homebrew projects (the Oaves, various inevitables, any of the other VUA[X] contests, etc) going to be in the setting standard? Or are they precluded by a bid for SRD-compliance?

[afroakuma]

Of my own: no. At this time, I'm not aware of any inclusions by Zeta Kai or Shadow_Elf.

[Zeta Kai]

Are any of y'all's homebrew projects (the Oaves, various inevitables, any of the other VUA[X] contests, etc) going to be in the setting standard? Or are they precluded by a bid for SRD-compliance?

I do not intend to foist my other projects upon either the Build Team or the voters. Most of my past homebrew is incompatible with the feel of this setting anyway. Only the Bio-Mage could have fit reasonably well, & as much as I love that class, I have no intention on including it in this campaign.

[Juhn]

Well, I was out recently, and, as it often does, inspiration struck me. I now have a preliminary character idea. But, I'll get to that in a little while.

First, I have a (series of) question(s) regarding spirituality which is a field that, apart from there being one God, has yet to really touched upon. There are only two planes in this setting, and from what I know the "yin" plane functions as the abode of supernatural creatures like genies. What happens when people in this setting die? Is there an afterlife? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? If so, are these separate from the two "yin-yang" planes? Is there any way to reach them apart from death? Does resurrection occur, with or without magical intercession? Or is there no afterlife? Is oblivion the only thing that follows death, or, perhaps, an infinite cycle of reincarnation back into one of the two planes?

And finally, and perhaps just as importantly, is the truth known by the inhabitants of this world? Or, is it (like in our world) primarily a matter of faith?

[afroakuma]

There are only two planes in this setting, and from what I know the "yin" plane functions as the abode of supernatural creatures like genies.

Not entirely true, but for purposes of the other questions, let's run with that.


What happens when people in this setting die?

Big party. Nobody liked them anyway. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbNypLbWD4k)


Is there an afterlife?

Yep.


Is there a heaven?

Hmm.


Is there a hell?

Hell, yes. Not in the conventional sense, though.


If so, are these separate from the two "yin-yang" planes?

Nope.


Is there any way to reach them apart from death?

I can't think of many compelling reasons to go to "Hell," but sure.


Does resurrection occur, with or without magical intercession?

Can't be answered at this time.


And finally, and perhaps just as importantly, is the truth known by the inhabitants of this world? Or, is it (like in our world) primarily a matter of faith?

Some know part of the truth, some believe part (or most) of the truth, and some believe some completely foolish (or optimistic) things.

[Magnor Criol]

I'm hoping that the next spoiler y'all release will have a lot more details about matters of faith, souls, the afterlife, and such. That's one of the biggest variables about any setting, and one of the topics y'all consistently refuse to reveal much about.

Similarly, I'm quite interested in the dynamics involved with this singular god. If there's one god, there's only one place for clerics to draw their powers from, no matter what their domains and beliefs are, so that should make for some unusual dynamics. IIRC, you guys stated that he's rather disinterested in daily society, which makes things...different.



Oh, and just so you know, afro, you've got me paranoid enough that I now have to highlight every post of yours from start to finish. =p'

[Alteran]

So do I! Part of me tries not to, but then I realize I missed something and I'm checking again. :smallannoyed:

One might say that Afro has driven me to train perception. (That is to say, put "ranks" in "spot checks" in 3.X speak. Is that correct?)

[Vic_Sage]

Personally I'd rather the next spoiler be about the races and culutres moreso than the religion.

[Juhn]

So, Heaven gets a non-answer and Hell gets a definite yes. And the optimists are foolish. How much GRIMDARK are you guys infusing into this setting?


One might say that Afro has driven me to train perception. (That is to say, put "ranks" in "spot checks" in 3.X speak. Is that correct?)

Technically, those would be search checks. To my understanding, spot checks are to notice things, search checks are when you actively go looking for something.

[Shadow_Elf]

He's just being evasive.
I think.
I'm not the fluffmaster that either Zeta or Afro are, so maybe I missed something.
Maybe I didn't.
Maybe I'm being evasive.
Or not.
Hard to tell.
Or is it?
Only sometimes.
@ ^: But that is debatable.
That's begging the question. I think.

[afroakuma]

I'm hoping that the next spoiler y'all release will have a lot more details about matters of faith, souls, the afterlife, and such. That's one of the biggest variables about any setting, and one of the topics y'all consistently refuse to reveal much about.

Only because it's... quite involved. Unless you're planning to feed yourselves to a roc over and over again, though, it shoudln't be a concern early on. :smallsmile:


Similarly, I'm quite interested in the dynamics involved with this singular god. If there's one god, there's only one place for clerics to draw their powers from, no matter what their domains and beliefs are, so that should make for some unusual dynamics. IIRC, you guys stated that he's rather disinterested in daily society, which makes things...different.

Yup. Among other things, commune will be highly useless.



Oh, and just so you know, afro, you've got me paranoid enough that I now have to highlight every post of yours from start to finish. =p'

Only for easter eggs. I won't pull that prank again.


Personally I'd rather the next spoiler be about the races and culutres moreso than the religion.

Far more likely.


So, Heaven gets a non-answer and Hell gets a definite yes. And the optimists are foolish. How much GRIMDARK are you guys infusing into this setting?

Some Middle Eastern traditions are known to be fecklessly optimistic with regards to their afterlife (how many virgins?). Some religions assume that everyone gets into paradise, or that the evil are forever condemned to hell...

It's not grimdark. There's simply no easy paradise.

[Zocelot]

He's just being evasive.
I think.
I'm not the fluffmaster that either Zeta or Afro are, so maybe I missed something.
Maybe I didn't.
Maybe I'm being evasive.
Or not.
Hard to tell.
Or is it?
Only sometimes.
@ ^: But that is debatable.
That's begging the question. I think.

Alternatively, you're dracula.

[Juhn]

Well, I've got a character-concept, as I said before, I only hope it meshes well enough with the established cultures.

[afroakuma]

Fastest way to find out would be to try me. :smallamused:

[Juhn]

Very true. I'll give you a writeup soon enough, then.

[Juhn]

Concept Incoming:

Alright, this particular concept, as is sometimes known to happen with me, came to me with a simple phrase: Absolute Loyalty. I'd already been planning on playing a Lizardman, and my current class choice is floating somewhere between Barbarian, Ranger or Scout, or, depending on the style of Lizardfolk spirituality, possibly Druid. I view this particular character as rather cynical, possibly less than trusting of other races. He is a Lizardman, and is very proud to be one. His loyalty is absolute. To what he owes loyalty exactly, I'm not yet sure of. My current thought leans me toward the idea of his culture, or his sense of Lizardfolk identity, or as a more solid example of this, the State. Lizardfolk society. Not necessarily his leaders, but the framework of his society itself. He is an obvious foreigner to humans and their half-breed varieties, and he clings tightly to his homeland and his ways. Taking a page from the Lizardfolk MM entry that states they would do things which humans find reprehensible, he will do anything – literally anything – if it for the good of his people, the good of his culture, and depending on how Lizardfolk society is set up, his State. His sense of duty is immense. His sense of loyalty is absolute. Treason is unthinkable. Execution is too light a punishment for traitors, and he will accept none from those he travels with, Lizardfolk or not. He holds his traditions close, even those which humans might find barbaric or unpalatable. However, as stated, he is willing to undergo anything, compromise anything, for the good of his people, his culture, his society, and so on.

Different concepts depending on class:

Barbarian – He is a warrior, a veteran of few or many, famous or unheard-of battles, depending on campaign background and starting level. He has risked his life to defend his homeland and its ideals, and he thinks that is nothing extraordinary. He would, without a second thought, risk his life countless more times, and if necessary, die a painful death, if it would better his people and their society. He is scarred, and cuts a rather intimidating figure, especially in the throes of Rage. He is largely untrusting of other races, having fought against them before, but he is not above co-operating with them if that is what will do good for his society. In time, they may even come to earn his impressive brand of loyalty.

Ranger or Scout, possibly even Rogue – Someone needs to do the dangerous jobs: the infiltration, the spying, the sabotage, and this Lizardman is more than willing. He is willing to do anything to help his homeland, and he is aware that sometimes, the balance of power can shift with a few swift strokes. He is cunning, he is canny, and he is loyal above all else. He is willing to work with other races, and even to help them, but he will do nothing which will harm his culture, his society, or its people. So long as he is not asked to do anything treasonous, they will find him a loyal, and useful, ally. He is lithe, and epitomizes the lizardly attributes of movement: quick, decisive action, slipping unnoticed and unheard from place to place, striking with calculation. He is the finger and claw of his people, and acts the part.

Druid – Note: this concept is rather mutable depending on Lizardfolk spirituality. The following will use an example. Lizardfolk are a spiritual people, more mystical than humans, kobolds or gnolls, and this Lizardman is no exception. He is a living example of his people's beliefs, of respect and fear of the desert they live in. He is a protector of his people, able to ward off nature's wrath, whether through ritual prayer or natural power (read: current class abilities), and has their respect as such. He views his position not as one of authority, but of responsibility: should he or his brethren fail, the desert will be unforgiving to both him and the rest of his people. He is a man of unswerving faith, of grim determination, and of absolute loyalty. He is tall and imposing, with a confident air, and his eyes show more wisdom than his reptilian body might otherwise indicate.

In any case, that's what I've got so far. What do you folks think?

No matter what, this should hopefully at least spark some discussion.

[afroakuma]

I don't see anything there that the current setting direction would undermine.

[Juhn]

Well, that was... uninformative, though I suppose it was mildly heartening. Is that the proper antonym for disheartening?

[afroakuma]

It is, yes. What were you hoping for? And really, what were you expecting? :D

[Juhn]

I dunno, really. People's thoughts, opinions perhaps?

[afroakuma]

Oh. I meant from me. :smalltongue:

[Juhn]

You don't have thoughts and/or opinions?

[afroakuma]

Oh, I probably do, but they might confirm or deny certain posted elements, so I really find myself without liberty to do so.

[Zeta Kai]

I will say, Juhn, that I like all of your concepts (especially the Barbarian), & that none of them are incompatible with the setting so far. If it helps, it is important to remember that most PC races live predominantly in or around the city-states, & each city-state's laws & culture are different than one anothers. Each city-state is a unique micronation, essentially, which makes for wildly different character concepts living in close proximity. We think that this will help enhance gameplay & the setting's verisimilitude. PCs have the chance to greatly affect the Powers That Be, or even to become one themselves.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I will say, Juhn, that I like all of your concepts (especially the Barbarian), & that none of them are incompatible with the setting so far. If it helps, it is important to remember that most PC races live predominantly in or around the city-states, & each city-state's laws & culture are different than one anothers. Each city-state is a unique micronation, essentially, which makes for wildly different character concepts living in close proximity. We think that this will help enhance gameplay & the setting's verisimilitude. PCs have the chance to greatly affect the Powers That Be, or even to become one themselves.

Reeeeeally.

Will you be including rules for running a city-state?

[afroakuma]

My God, we can't say anything in this thread anymore without it being analyzed. :smallamused:

[Mercenary Pen]

My God, we can't say anything in this thread anymore without it being analyzed. :smallamused:

Goes off to analyze this random and seemingly insignificant post. You think I'm joking.

*Comes back* 'My God', does this mean you've taken up worship of Zihaja, or have you chosen a different deity?:smallwink:

[Zeta Kai]

'My God', does this mean you've taken up worship of Zihaja, or have you chosen a different deity?:smallwink:

Zihaja doesn't really care if you worship Him or not. It's your neighbors & your city managers that care what you believe & how you worship. :smallamused:

[Mr.Bookworm]

Zihaja doesn't really care if you worship Him or not. It's your neighbors & your city managers that care what you believe & how you worship. :smallamused:

*analyzes*

1) Zihaja clearly has purple as a primary, favored color.

2) Zihaja is a male deity.

3) Zihaja is referred to using the capital H.

4) Neighbor and "city manager" mechanics relating to religion will be featured.

5) There will be "city managers", who presumably manage a city.

6) Zeta Kai is amused, but not enough to use a large amused smiley, merely a small amused smiley.
[/joking]

[afroakuma]

Well, 2) is certainly correct.

[Mercenary Pen]

3) Zihaja is referred to using the capital H.

It is quite common in religious circles to use capitals when referring to a deity... whether that be for pronouns, adjectives, etc.

An example to demonstrate:

"The Mighty One, God, the Lord"

[Juhn]

Oh, I probably do, but they might confirm or deny certain posted elements, so I really find myself without liberty to do so.

Your near-obsessive desire for secrecy is getting to the point where it stifles creativity, methinks. When somebody creates a character concept and puts it into something called a "discussion thread", he hopes for some feedback and, well, discussion.


I will say, Juhn, that I like all of your concepts (especially the Barbarian), & that none of them are incompatible with the setting so far. If it helps, it is important to remember that most PC races live predominantly in or around the city-states, & each city-state's laws & culture are different than one anothers. Each city-state is a unique micronation, essentially, which makes for wildly different character concepts living in close proximity. We think that this will help enhance gameplay & the setting's verisimilitude. PCs have the chance to greatly affect the Powers That Be, or even to become one themselves.

Ah, well, that's somewhat more useful. Firstly, thank you for the compliment. Which concept I end up using likely depends on which role is most needed for the party being formed. As far as the city-states thing go, yeah, that was one of the major reasons why I didn't vote for city-states when we got to political geography. It makes it hard to pin down a character like this, especially when Travel is so high on the themes list. Still, I hope there are some universal elements when it comes to Lizardfolk culture? They are a rather distinct minority, compared the the human/part humans that make up fully half the races of this setting.

[Luean]

I find this thread quite entertaining ^^

BTW: Is there a chance that this setting will feature some kind of sand pirates? (not bandits, but pirates with some kind of magic ship or something like that)

If not, I'll wait until you are done with the setting and start homebrewing then.

[afroakuma]

Your near-obsessive desire for secrecy is getting to the point where it stifles creativity, methinks. When somebody creates a character concept and puts it into something called a "discussion thread", he hopes for some feedback and, well, discussion.

Peer discussion is heavily encouraged. I wouldn't have commented at all, except that I wanted to confirm that your ideas would be viable in the setting.


Still, I hope there are some universal elements when it comes to Lizardfolk culture?

Yep! They're all scaly!

[Juhn]

Peer discussion is heavily encouraged. I wouldn't have commented at all, except that I wanted to confirm that your ideas would be viable in the setting.


"I wouldn't have commented at all" is exactly what I didn't want. I put it up there for people to comment on, and you do count as a peer. You play the game too, after all. You could always explain what you think of the idea, perhaps offer constructive criticism, without giving anything away.

Yep! They're all scaly!

...And you're telling me that's the extent of it, or something?

[Mercenary Pen]

...And you're telling me that's the extent of it, or something?

Nope, he's trying not to give away spoilers- just the same way that people who earn money in publishing/creating stuff try not to give away spoilers.

[Juhn]

Hmm. Anyone else? Any thoughts, opinions? Perhaps character ideas of your own?

[Athaniar]

Seems fine to me.

[TheCheshireHat]

I like the concept Juhn. It´s got solid RP potential, and makes for some very interesting intections with other PC´s. :smallsmile:

I´ve got something myself. It´s kinda nebulous at the moment, as it depends quite a bit on the settings take on genies. Basically, the idea is about a Human (or perhaps Genasi) that has met and fallen madly on love with a Djinni. The Djinni loves him too, but the is something that stops them from being together (bet you didn´t see that coming :smallbiggrin:). Maybe she is trapped in some way, and he must find a way to free his beloved. Alternatively, the Djinni has an extremely powerful and very protective father who very emphatically objects to marrying his daughter off to some good-for-nothing Human, and so our love-struck [class] (Djinni-pact warlock is an obvious choice, in 4e but some other class multi-classing into warlock could work too) must seek glory, fame and riches to satisfy him. In any case, the Djinni has granted her lover a small measure of power to aid him.

I´ve never played either 3.5 or 4e though, so I have little idea what classes would work for this concept. Or if a hypothetical DM for a PbP would want to admit a, utter D&D newbie. :smalltongue:

[Shadow_Elf]

CheshireHat, I can tell you that this idea will most definitely work in 4e DND. I would suggest having warlock as your primary class, because Multiclassing is less efficient in 4e, and the level of power you want this human's lover to give him would not be very well represented with an MC Warlock. Depending on how high level the character is going to be, he might be multiclassed into Fighter, Wizard, or Warlord.

[Owrtho]

Well, not sure how much you can say, but will half-ghuls have an LA? Also, will there be race stats for ghuls?

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

Half-ghuls will have an LA. There will not be race stats for ghuls.

[Juhn]

Oh hey, it looks like we're getting some more character concepts. Glad to see I'm not alone anymore. :smallsmile:

[Owrtho]

So, would a man eating, dexterity based melee half-ghul be viable?

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

I don't know what man-eating has to do with it, but sure, why not.

[Owrtho]

A key feature of ghuls is that they eat humans (at least traditionally)

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

Ah.

Well, sure, if that's what your half-ghul wants to do.

[Juhn]

I doubt the lizardmen would have any real problems with that, as long as it's enemies that are being eaten. They tend to be rather pragmatic people.

[Zeta Kai]

I doubt the lizardfolk would have any real problems with that, as long as it's enemies that are being eaten. They tend to be rather pragmatic people.

1) Fixed a typo for ya. :smallwink:

2) You know, many races are like that, regardless of setting. Including humans.

[Juhn]

Ah. Yes. Playing too much Warhammer's got me using the wrong terms.

And yeah, true. I'm just going by their MM fluff in that they tend to be willing to do some rather reprehensible things, so I doubt they'd be too quick to judge.

[Shadow_Elf]

A word to the wise: Don't go by the MM fluff when thinking of character concepts. We've made some, ummmm, very big changes in some of those departments.

[afroakuma]

Concurred with a vengeance.

[Juhn]

True enough, but we have no cultural information to speak of at the moment so that's all I really have to go on.

[afroakuma]

Next person to hint that they want more spoilers gets one of these up their nose.


http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/afroakuma/SilverHellstar.jpg

[insecure]

Next person to hint that they want more spoilers gets one of these up their nose.


http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/afroakuma/SilverHellstar.jpg

That'd be an awesome death. Awesome enough for me to demand MOAR SPOILERS!!1! No, not really, just lurking around here. ;)

[starwoof]

Man, how are they going to make that one into a prestige class?...

[Mr.Bookworm]

Next person to hint that they want more spoilers gets one of these up their nose.


http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/afroakuma/SilverHellstar.jpg

Couldn't, you just, y'know, copy one of the conversations?

I mean, comeon.

[Juhn]

That was not actually a deliberate hint; it was more of a justification for my folly.

Though I certainly wouldn't refuse any additional information, if that's what you're getting at.

[afroakuma]

No, I think this is what I was getting at:


http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/afroakuma/SilverHellstar.jpg

[Juhn]

But if I'm Good-aligned, wouldn't that just send me directly to one of the Good-aligned outer planes?

[Juhn]

But it's not in orbit if it's up my nose. Unless... :smalleek:

[Juhn]

I am amused by how obvious the Cthulhu Solution is with that particular villain.

[Shadow_Elf]

Speaking of Cthulu, I made a level 45 Solo (4e Speak) monster from the Far Realm for the Gears of Neve setting. It was somewhat like Afro's Hellstar, except it was a psionic robot that collapses planes because it can, instead of a space station killing things with its Death Laz0rz to save them from damnation.

[Juhn]

I don't recall seeing any actual lasers.

[Mercenary Pen]

You want lasers, try looking amongst its SLA's, because it does have a selection of Rays.

[Juhn]

Thanks to these last few posts I can no longer show this thread to anyone else in my group.

[afroakuma]

Meh; this is just the discussion thread. How much material here did you really need to show them? :smallwink:

[Juhn]

Trying to sell them on it, mayhaps?

[Vic_Sage]

A word to the wise: Don't go by the MM fluff when thinking of character concepts. We've made some, ummmm, very big changes in some of those departments.
THank the gods above.

[afroakuma]

Sell them on the campaign setting? Or?

I can blank my off-topic posts regarding the Hellstar, but I don't think there's been too much said anyway. What in particular were you concerned with?

[Juhn]

If I ever attempt to sell my group on this setting, I will probably have them read through this thread (and possibly the first one as well). Of course, with your most recent villain you've also pretty much supplied the framework for an entire campaign, and I'd also like to use that one as well. But, of course, if they read through this (ostensibly unrelated) thread, then it might end up spoiling things for them that they shouldn't know about until (near-)epic levels.

[afroakuma]

Too much risk to give them the actual setting thread?

Well, I've removed all of my offending posts (except the Up Your Nose threat, but that's hardly relevant.) Should clear things up.

[Juhn]

Ah, well, thanks for that. Part of me is sad to see them go, though; they were rather amusing.

I should probably remove my corresponding posts as well.

[starwoof]

Now my post about it looks totally nonsensical. Thanks guys.

[Mewtarthio]

And so the Elder Evil has collapsed an entire thread into a vortex of confusion and nothingness.

Note also how Afrokuma has skillfully distracted us from clamoring for more spoilers. :wink:

I mean, you guys. Skillfully distracted you guys. I would never oppose you, Lord Afrokuma. Please don't decapitate me or shove that thing up my nose or anything like that. :eek:

[Juhn]

Why do you feel the need to validate his delusions of grandeur, Mewtarthio? That can only end badly for us.

[Athaniar]

Well, I've removed all of my offending posts (except the Up Your Nose threat, but that's hardly relevant.) Should clear things up.

Since you removed the posts, care to tell me what that whole discussion was all about?

[afroakuma]

Why do you feel the need to validate his delusions of grandeur, Mewtarthio? That can only end badly for us.

Oh don't worry. I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92837) validate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94009) my (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95094) own (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95452) delusions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96016) of (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5372734#post5372734) grandeur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98414) regularly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96183).

[vegetalss4]

actually i would believe that "completely accurate perceptions of grandeur" would be more correct

[Mercenary Pen]

actually i would believe that "completely accurate perceptions of grandeur" would be more correct

Don't inflate his head!!!! He can barely get it through doorways as it is.

[Juhn]

Oh don't worry. I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92837) validate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94009) my (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95094) own (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95452) delusions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96016) of (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5372734#post5372734) grandeur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98414) regularly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96183).

I suppose there is something to be said of the fact that you once had "you doubt my power?" as a catchphrase.