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overduegalaxy
2008-12-04, 02:15 PM
First of all, yes, I know this isn't an optimal build. But it's my character concept, now I need to execute it effectively.

So far, all I know is that the base class is going to be Psychic Warrior. Haven't chosen a race (but I don't want to use goliaths, I just don't like them). I can pick up the feat Monkey Grip from CWar, but that's only one step up. How big can I possibly get my weapon, taking as few penalties as possible to my to-hit?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-04, 02:19 PM
Monkey Grip, remember, does nothing about the penalty for using a larger weapon. That said, it is possible to go with a huge 1-handed weapon if you're medium and have Monkey Grip. Toss in Mighty Wallop(SpC, IIRC) and it goes Gargantuan, then enlarge yourself and it's colossal with only a -4 to-hit. The more you can enlarge yourself the more boosts you can cut out, too.

Frerezar
2008-12-04, 02:20 PM
Be a half giant, their powerfull build (just like goliaths) would llow you to weild weapong even one size bigger, and their favored class is psychic warrior)that wuld allow you to wield gargantuan weapons (with monkey). If you are not satisfied with that, find a way to cast greater mighty wallop (races of the dragon or dragon magic idk) on your weapon for colossal plus damage. or the power EXPANSION might make you and your equipment one size lager, i don't have my books here so i couldnt be sure

jcsw
2008-12-04, 02:21 PM
1. Buy a Necklace of Natural Attacks from Savage Species.
2. Attach the Sizing Enchantment from Magic Item Compendium.
3. Hope you can convince your DM that you're automatically proficient with your hands even if they're oversized, based on the fact that spells/effects which increase the effective size of natural weapons don't seem to incur penalties.

kamikasei
2008-12-04, 02:23 PM
Be a half giant, their powerfull build (just like goliaths) would llow you to weild weapong even one size bigger, and their favored class is psychic warrior)that wuld allow you to wield gargantuan weapons (with monkey).

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip don't stack. Just be a half-giant and leave Monkey Grip out of the build all together.

RTGoodman
2008-12-04, 02:46 PM
What level are you starting at? What sources are allowed.


Tentatively, if you aren't looking for the MOST optimized build, what about a Half-Giant Psychic Warrior with a sugliin? The sugliin is basically a tree with some antlers and sticks and sharp bits taped to it, and it's a two-handed exotic reach weapon that deals 2d8 damage. The downside is that it takes a full-round action to use until you can pick up the Sugliin Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Sugliin_Mastery) feat. If you grab EWP (Sugliin) and Power Attack at 1st level, Improved Bull Rush at 2nd level, and something else at 3rd, you can get Sugliin Mastery at 5th (as a bonus feat), Leap Attack at 6th, and (I think) Shock Trooper at 8th. That's your basic charger build, plus a gigantic ridiculous weapon (which, by the way, is gargantuan-sized now because you're using expansion to grow two size categories, and Powerful Build ups it by one more). For more cheese, you can spend one level on (CChamp) Lion Totem Barbarian to make full attacks when you charge, for even more destruction.

Question - how much damage does a gargantuan weapon that's 2d8 as a medium weapon do? 6d8? I can't seem to find the right chart...

Mephit
2008-12-04, 02:48 PM
Tentatively, if you aren't looking for the MOST optimized build, what about a Half-Giant Psychic Warrior with a sugliin? The sugliin is basically a tree with some antlers and sticks and sharp bits taped to it, and it's a two-handed exotic reach weapon that deals 2d8 damage. The downside is that it takes a full-round action to use until you can pick up the Sugliin Mastery (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Sugliin_Mastery) feat.

Or you get EWP(Fullblade). Exactly the same, but attacks as a standard action.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-04, 02:50 PM
Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize)'s the table for all who want it. Yes, a 2d8 weapon would indeed deal 6d8. I prefer a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer(MM4) personally, or the Elephant Axe(DC).

overduegalaxy
2008-12-04, 02:56 PM
What level are you starting at? What sources are allowed.

The DM hasn't announced a level yet. As for books allowed: Core + Psionics, Complete..., Races of..., environmental, and MM1-5.

Paramour Pink
2008-12-04, 02:56 PM
Overduegalaxy? Now that's a trouble-makers name if I ever saw one. I bet you're the type that likes whispergnomes and beguilers, and rangers to boot, and all combinations thereof. :smalleek:

Which is why this thread confuses me. :smalltongue:

Darrin
2008-12-04, 03:34 PM
How big can I possibly get my weapon, taking as few penalties as possible to my to-hit?

There are several ways of increasing your weapon size. Monkey Grip should be avoided *unless* you're getting an average damage increase greater than 3-4 points (in which case it can start to outperform Power Attack. But you'll probably still be teased about using it).

1) Powerful Build. Half-Giant or Goliath is easiest. You lose about +1 BAB due to the +1 LA, but LA buyoff may help.

2) Strongarm Bracers. MIC, p. 139, 6000 GP and worth every penny.

3) Major Titan Bloodline, Unearthed Arcana. Use Oversize Weapon as an (Ex) ability. Probably worse than Monkey Grip, since you have to give up three class levels (and +3 potential BAB) and it doesn't kick in until ECL 12.

4) Touchstone ability, Sandstorm p. 55, Sunken City of Pazar. However, it only works for 1 minute, 1/day, so not all that optimal.

On top of that, you can increase your size via Alter Self, Enlarge Person, or Expansion/Augmented Expansion. You already mentioned Psychic Warrior, and I think Augmented Expansion is the only way to stack two size increases.

What kind of oversize weapon do you want to use? Consider:

Start with a 1d4 weapon such as a kukri. Powerful Build + Strongarm Bracers gives you two size increases, so 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8. Now make the kukri out of gold or platinum (Heavy Weapon property, Magic of Faerun p. 179). Requires EWP, but damage goes up to 2d6. Add another one for TWF.

Person_Man
2008-12-04, 03:43 PM
Start with any bludgeoning weapon that deals 1d12 or 2d6 damage. Standard damage progression goes from 1d12 or 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6 -> 6d6 -> 8d6

The following things increase effective or actual weapon size:

Powerful build or Monkey Grip
Improved version of Expansion (www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm)
Greater Mighty Wallop spell (Races of the Dragon) increases size damage for any blunt melee weapon by one step for every 4 caster levels, up to an effective size of Colossal

Also, you can choose to use an inappropriately sized weapon, and take a cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. It's right there in the core rules (www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm). A -4 or -6 penalty isn't that big of a deal for someone with high Str and respectable BAB.

jcsw
2008-12-04, 11:51 PM
3) Major Titan Bloodline, Unearthed Arcana. Use Oversize Weapon as an (Ex) ability. Probably worse than Monkey Grip, since you have to give up three class levels (and +3 potential BAB) and it doesn't kick in until ECL 12.


Fun fact: The titan's Wield oversized weapon (ex) ability says you can wield Gargantuan Axes, not axes "One size larger than normal".
Therefore, *technically* even if you were a fine creature with the titan bloodline, you could wield Gargantuan axes.

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-04, 11:58 PM
I refuse to help you build this character on moral grounds.

The Glyphstone
2008-12-05, 12:02 AM
Fun fact: The titan's Wield oversized weapon (ex) ability says you can wield Gargantuan Axes, not axes "One size larger than normal".
Therefore, *technically* even if you were a fine creature with the titan bloodline, you could wield Gargantuan axes.

I don't know whether to be shocked or awed - this is a completely new loophole to me, and it's been ages since I've seen that. Plus, it's hilarious. The downside is that you can't Enlarge or Expansion, because that will *technically* make the weapon bigger than Gargantuan and thus no longer able to be wielded with the ability.:smallwink: And it unfortunately *technically* specifies that the ability only works with Gargantuan two-handed warhammers.:smallbiggrin:

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-05, 12:10 AM
I don't know whether to be shocked or awed - this is a completely new loophole to me, and it's been ages since I've seen that. Plus, it's hilarious. The downside is that you can't Enlarge or Expansion, because that will *technically* make the weapon bigger than Gargantuan and thus no longer able to be wielded with the ability.:smallwink: And it unfortunately *technically* specifies that the ability only works with Gargantuan two-handed warhammers.:smallbiggrin:

It's only 4d6 damage...

Lemur
2008-12-05, 12:58 AM
As long as you're focusing on getting a big weapon, you might consider taking Vampiric Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vampiricBlade.htm).

Tacoma
2008-12-05, 02:31 AM
You will need to start with oversized spiky yellow hair.

This is key.

All discussion of feats is meaningless. Your weapon will be as large as you want it to be. The trick is to move your enemy onto the weapon, but hold onto the handle to make it look like you're swinging it. The perspective of your enemies is the real issue here.

It is now that delight begins to dawn upon your features. This is where the magic happens.

Furthermore once you have mastered the use of an oversized, illogically broad sword in this manner you can step up to other weapons. Perhaps a small cottage? Or an Ent.

But Tacoma, you say in slowly accelerating wonder and envy, what if there is nothing to wield?

You are standing on a planet. Grab hold, my son, and strike your enemy upon it. The benefit of this is that a very liberal interpretation of the Cleave feat chain could suggest that your enemy need only be adjacent to your weapon, and not to you.

Secure your princesses, world, because you're all in a threatened square.

Keld Denar
2008-12-05, 02:36 AM
Secure your princesses, world, because you're all in a threatened square.

Priceless...

KKL
2008-12-05, 02:45 AM
Hey.

Grab the Gold material from something of Faerun. Got that?

Now, Strongarm Bracers.

Got those?

Races of Stone. Goliath Greathammer, get it in Large flavor.

All of those? Large Heavy Goliath Greathammer. What's the damage on this baby? 3d8. It's a two handed weapon so hadd your str mod and a half. And then toss in Expansion too, for larger die sizes. And Greater Mighty Wallop.

Just find an enchantment that allows you to reduce things to light particles when you kill then and you're Golden. Or Goldion.

PS: Sensibility was here, Monkey Grip is a loser.

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-05, 02:46 AM
Secure your princesses, world, because you're all in a threatened square.
I'm sorry, but your princess is in another castle.

Darrin
2008-12-05, 09:38 AM
Races of Stone. Goliath Greathammer, get it in Large flavor.


Won't work. The Heavy Weapon property (Magic of Faerun p. 179) doesn't automatically increase a weapon's damage up to the next size category, it uses a table. And the table only goes up to 1d12 -> 2d8. So if you use a Large Goliath Greathammer, the Heavy Weapon property doesn't increase the damage. The only way to get that to work would be to start with a medium Greathammer (1d12 -> 2d8) and put the sizing property on it.




PS: Sensibility was here, Monkey Grip is a loser.

Monkey Grip actually starts to make sense if the average damage goes up by 3.5 or 4.5 points.

ReluctantDragon
2008-12-05, 12:38 PM
You will need to start with oversized spiky yellow hair.

This is key.

All discussion of feats is meaningless. Your weapon will be as large as you want it to be. The trick is to move your enemy onto the weapon, but hold onto the handle to make it look like you're swinging it. The perspective of your enemies is the real issue here.

It is now that delight begins to dawn upon your features. This is where the magic happens.

Furthermore once you have mastered the use of an oversized, illogically broad sword in this manner you can step up to other weapons. Perhaps a small cottage? Or an Ent.

But Tacoma, you say in slowly accelerating wonder and envy, what if there is nothing to wield?

You are standing on a planet. Grab hold, my son, and strike your enemy upon it. The benefit of this is that a very liberal interpretation of the Cleave feat chain could suggest that your enemy need only be adjacent to your weapon, and not to you.

Secure your princesses, world, because you're all in a threatened square.

Comedy. Gold.

KKL
2008-12-07, 11:55 PM
Won't work. The Heavy Weapon property (Magic of Faerun p. 179) doesn't automatically increase a weapon's damage up to the next size category, it uses a table. And the table only goes up to 1d12 -> 2d8. So if you use a Large Goliath Greathammer, the Heavy Weapon property doesn't increase the damage. The only way to get that to work would be to start with a medium Greathammer (1d12 -> 2d8) and put the sizing property on it..

Well, balls. A DM of mine said it worked, so I had fun for that campaign, till it just died.

Lemur
2008-12-08, 12:43 AM
Won't work. The Heavy Weapon property (Magic of Faerun p. 179) doesn't automatically increase a weapon's damage up to the next size category, it uses a table. And the table only goes up to 1d12 -> 2d8. So if you use a Large Goliath Greathammer, the Heavy Weapon property doesn't increase the damage. The only way to get that to work would be to start with a medium Greathammer (1d12 -> 2d8) and put the sizing property on it.

You're misinterpreting the table. It shows die increase for each individual die used in weapon damage, not total weapon damage. 1d8 becomes 2d6, so a weapon that uses two d8s would become 4d6, as each d8 would be converted.

btw: it's better to get the Greathorn Minotaur version of the greathammer as it has a 19-20/x4 crit (MMIV p. 101)

Darrin
2008-12-08, 09:27 AM
You're misinterpreting the table. It shows die increase for each individual die used in weapon damage, not total weapon damage. 1d8 becomes 2d6, so a weapon that uses two d8s would become 4d6, as each d8 would be converted.


Holy platonic polyhedrals... you're right. I missed the "(Each Die)"...

Wow. So a Large Greathammer with the Heavy Weapon property goes from 3d6 to 3d8 (avg dmg 13.5). Add Strongarm Bracers and it goes up to... 4d8, I think. Add Monkey Grip and you can get it up to 6d8 (Heavy Gargantuan Greathammer, I think). Expansion goes up another size category, 8d8, but the weapon size table in the Rules Compendium stops there (doesn't say what happens after 8d6).* Expansion goes up another size category, 6d8, and Augmented Expansion goes up to 8d8.

A Heavy Large Bastard Sword would actually get slightly better damage. 2d8 -> 4d6 (avg dmg 14). Add Strongarm Bracers and damage goes up to 6d6. Add Monkey Grip and it goes up to 8d6. Expansion goes up to 12d6, and you can augment it up to 16d6. If you can squeeze in another size increase in somewhere (maybe polymorph into something huge?), you could max out the weapon size table with 24d6 damage.* Expansion goes up to 8d6, and Augmented Expansion goes up to 12d6. Find some way to squeeze on a couple more size increases (polymorph or Wu Jen's giant size), and you can max out the weapon size table at 24d6.

* = Silly me, as someone who has ranted at others over misunderstanding Monkey Grip, I should be one of the last people to forget that Powerful Build and Monkey Grip don't stack.

Aneantir
2008-12-08, 11:34 AM
You're misinterpreting the table. It shows die increase for each individual die used in weapon damage, not total weapon damage. 1d8 becomes 2d6, so a weapon that uses two d8s would become 4d6, as each d8 would be converted.

btw: it's better to get the Greathorn Minotaur version of the greathammer as it has a 19-20/x4 crit (MMIV p. 101)

I fully support the use of the most obscene damage dealing weapon in the game. Also, you may want to consider going Psychic Warrior/Psychic Weapons Master for the build, taking the improved critical feat, for a greathammer that crits on 15-20.