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Person_Man
2008-12-04, 10:12 PM
This is a riff off of a build of mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) that included it as an option. The premise is simple: Find as many different Dex penalties, damage, and drain effects as possible.

Penalties from different sources stack. Reducing an enemy to 0 Dex means that they're Paralyzed (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Paralyzed). A low Dex and/or Paralyzed enemy is ridiculously easy to hit, and is subject to Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Coup de Grace.

Options that I know about:


Net (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Net) (SRD): Touch Attack to Entangle.
Razor Net (Dragon Comp p. 115):Touch Attack to Entangle.
Quick Draw (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Quick_Draw_(Feat)) (SRD): Needed for making a full attack with thrown weapons.
Lasso (BoED p. 34): Touch Attack to Entangle.
Tanglefoot Bag (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tanglefoot_Bag) (SRD): Ref Save or Entangled.
Spell Storing Weapon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Spell_storing) (SRD): Useful for delivering spells with weapons.
Smiting Spell (PHBII):Useful for delivering spells with weapons.
Entangle (www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm) (SRD): Ref Save or Entangled.
Briar Web (Com Div p 156): Cler 3/Dru 2/Ran 2: Ref Save or Entangled + 1d6 poison Dex damage.
Entangling Spell (Champ of Ruin): +2 LA, any creature damaged by an energy spell is also Entangled for 1 round, No Save.
Touch of Fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/touchoffatigue.htm): Fort Save or Fatigued (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued). Enemy who is already Fatigued becomes Exhausted (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted).
Ray of Exhaustion (www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rayOfExhaustion): Touch Attack makes enemy Exhausted. Successful Fort Save still leaves you Fatigued.
Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) (Races of Dragon): +0 LA race with Ref Save breath weapon.
Entangling Exhalation (Races of Dragon p 101): Breath weapon Entangles.
Quicken Breath (Draconomicon p 73): Quickens breath weapon.
Entangling Ectoplasm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/entanglingEctoplasm.htm) (SRD): Touch Attack Entangles.
Ghost (SRD, +5 LA): Horrific Appearance deals 1d4 Str, Dex, and Con damage
Corrupting Touch (Ghostwalk): Touch Attack deals 1d4 Dex damage.
Empowered Ability Damage (Libris Mortis, reqs incorporeal undead type): Ability damage deals +50% damage.
Rope of Entanglement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#ropeofEntanglement) (SRD): No Save or attack roll, Entangles.
Poison: Many poisons deal Dex damage.
Poison Master (Comp Scoundrel): Poison deals +1 ability damage per die.
Touch of Golden Ice (BoED): Evil enemies hit with unarmed or natural attacks must Save (DC 14 Fort) or take 1d6 Dex damage.
Wild Shape/Alter Self/Polymorph: Turn into something that deals Dex damage., like a Giant Centipede (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm) or Scorpion Folk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/scorpionfolk.htm) or Ettercap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ettercap.htm), and/or have one as an animal companion or cohort or whatnot.
Death Blow (Comp Advent p 106): Coup de Grace as a Standard Action.


The up side to having this combo is that for a relatively low investment, such as Quick Draw and a few spell storing weapons, you can quickly impose a -18ish penalty to an enemy's. The odds of your success are usually very high. It's a great backup option for a Ranger, Factotum, or Rogue-ish character.

The down side is that tons of mid-high level enemies are immune to Dex damage, poison, fatigue, etc. So it's its probably not worth optimizing. And some DMs may rule that Entangling effects don't stack, because not all of them spell out their penalties. Some of them just say that you become Entangled, and the description of Entangled and the FAQ say nothing about what happens if you become Entangled a second time.

So, my question for the playground is simple - what did I miss? Can you think of any spells, magic items, feats, special equipment, or other abilities that make you Entangled and/or that impose a Dex penalty, damage, drain, etc? And how would you incorporate this into a build? If you were to optimize it, how would you go about it?

Thanks in advance.

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-04, 10:14 PM
Shivering Touch - 3d6 dex damage.

Ray of Clumsiness - as Ray of Enfeeblement, but for Dex.

Kizara
2008-12-04, 10:15 PM
The famous, dragon-killing, shivering touch?

Edit: *stabs a ninja*

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-04, 10:16 PM
^ Batman'd. :smallwink:

Keld Denar
2008-12-04, 10:33 PM
Numbing Sphere, Frostburn pg 102. Basically a Flaming Sphere for 1d6 cold damage with 1d4 Dex damage tacked on. Great followup to a Quickened Ray of Clumsiness. Lasts rounds/level, so roll it onto your stucked foe who is Entangled by your Tanglefoot Bag or Druids Entangle Spell. Tick tick tick dead.

Also, Briar Web doesn't do dex damage, only physical damage. Check over SpC again.

Person_Man
2008-12-05, 11:52 AM
Wow, Shivering Touch (Frostburn pg. 104) is a No Save 3rd level spell. Put one in a Spell Storing net and one in a Spell Storing lasso, and you deal 6d6 Dex damage and impose a -8 to their Dex score. All you need to do is make 2 touch attacks.

Well, that was too easy.

But assuming your DM bans ridiculous spells, I think the same tactic with a Ray of Clumsiness and a Numbing Sphere would get the job done just as well. Heck, two Rays of Exhaustion with this tactic would still leave your enemy with a -14 penalty, which would be enough to kill almost anything.

Proven_Paradox
2008-12-05, 12:32 PM
I'm not sure some of what you posted works... The way I'm reading the rules, the penalties from being entangled in multiple ways wouldn't stack; even though the different entangling effects are from different sources, the source of the dex penalty is the same: entangle.

It's kind of like being shaken twice--it just doesn't happen. Either the second effect worsens the condition to frightened, or (if one of the shaken sources state that you can't get above shaken from that source) the two effects overlap and don't stack.

Or are you just listing multiple ways to get entanglement once?


Anyway, there's a 6th level druid spell in Complete Champion: Wooden Blight. Deals 1d4 dex damage per level for 1 round/level--at zero dex, instead of being paralysed, the target turns into a wooden statue. They can make a fort save throw every round to take half damage for that round and end the effect. For each point of damage they take from the spell, their speed is reduced by 5 feet (minimum 5).