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Heliomance
2008-12-05, 06:50 AM
How would you go about building the ultimate skillmonkey? I assume it would begin wih Factotum and Able Learner, but where do you go from there?

monty
2008-12-05, 06:53 AM
Factotum 20. With Brains over Brawn, almost complete SAD on Int, and the best skill list in the game, why would you want anything else?

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 06:54 AM
It only has 6+INT skill points. By taking a level then switching to Rogue or similar, you can get 8+INT.

monty
2008-12-05, 06:57 AM
It only has 6+INT skill points. By taking a level then switching to Rogue or similar, you can get 8+INT.

But you DON'T get Cunning...whichever the one is that lets you add class levels to skills 1/day (don't have the book on me at the moment). You should have enough Int to cover pretty much all of the important skills anyway.

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 07:00 AM
But you DO get Skill Mastery at later levels.
(Factotum may get this also, if so disregard this)

What race would be best? Human or Grey Elf? They both end up with the same number of skillpoints, but Int can be used for so much more. OTOH, Con penalty is sucky.

monty
2008-12-05, 07:03 AM
But you DO get Skill Mastery at later levels.
(Factotum may get this also, if so disregard this)

What race would be best? Human or Grey Elf? They both end up with the same number of skillpoints, but Int can be used for so much more. OTOH, Con penalty is sucky.

However, by the time you get Skill Mastery, the same number of Factotum levels would be giving you a +10 or more bonus to all skills (1/day).

Human gets a bonus feat, so it's hard to say. Didn't one of the Dragon magazines have some 0 LA templates that gave +2/-2 to various stats? Was there one for +Int?

Eldariel
2008-12-05, 07:04 AM
From core races? Human gets that extra Font of Inspiration, but strictly skillmonkeying goes to the Elf. Factotum really becomes stupid-good once you reach level 19; the ability to copy any class feature is just plain dumb (e.g. Skill Mastery). I'd take a one-level dip in Exemplar for Skill Masteries, bonuses and extra skillpoints though.

Eldritch_Ent
2008-12-05, 07:12 AM
For lower levels, Bard with Able Learner, Bardic Knack and Improvisation mean you can use *any* skill you want at, uhh, bard level + int mod.

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 07:13 AM
How viable is Factotum 20 in combat?

monty
2008-12-05, 07:16 AM
How viable is Factotum 20 in combat?

Depends. With enough FoI, you can nova a (lots)d6 sneak attack and kill just about anything that's vulnerable to it.

You could argue the fighter's bonus feats as a single class feature and get all of them for a little while; that would certainly make you effective.

There's other, less questionable tricks, I'm sure, but it's the middle of the night and I'm still working on a paper, so I'm not really putting full thought into this.

jcsw
2008-12-05, 08:07 AM
To make a true skillmonkey you need to play an Anthropomorphic Monkey.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-05, 08:17 AM
Depends on what level. Changeling Rogue 1 is always nice for your first level, Chameleon is nice for the floating Skill Focus, Factotum would be a required dip with Able Learner at some point, and of course Human is great for truly maxing your number per level, as is Nymph's Kiss.

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 09:06 AM
Depends. With enough FoI, you can nova a (lots)d6 sneak attack and kill just about anything that's vulnerable to it.

You could argue the fighter's bonus feats as a single class feature and get all of them for a little while; that would certainly make you effective.

There's other, less questionable tricks, I'm sure, but it's the middle of the night and I'm still working on a paper, so I'm not really putting full thought into this.

That's not until level 19 though. Factotum, while awesome, does seem decidedly sub-par combat wise.

BRC
2008-12-05, 09:14 AM
Factotums get less skill points than rogues, but they have a higher INT, and can throw their class bonus on skill checks, plus they have Every skill as a class skill. If you really want more skill points, take rogue at first level to take advantage of the first level x4 skill points, but go Factotum after that.

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 09:38 AM
Okay, let's set some more concrete goals.

Goal 1: Max ranks in as many as possible different skills
Goal 2: Skill Mastery in a many as possible different skills
Goal 3: Being able to competantly fulfill as many roles as possible - sneak, trap detector, party face, acrobat etc
Goal 4: Being able to achieve the highest possible result at need in as many as possible different skills

Bonus points for being combat viable, and for being playable at every level from 1-20.

Arbitrarity
2008-12-05, 09:46 AM
Human Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Exemplar 1/Incarnate 4

Well, one of my favorites. Exemplar gives skill mastery, Chameleon gives access to Improvisation. Incarnate is... see here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=574633)

Well. Boost intelligence, obviously. 4 soulmelds, 6 essentia, 1 chakra bind.

Soulmelds should be something in the Incarnate by the numbers list, i.e.

* Acrobat Boots – Balance, Escape Artist, Jump, & Tumble.
* Dragon Tail - Balance & Swim (competence bonus)
* Elder Spirit - Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), & Use Magic Device
* Keeneye Lenses – Spot.
* Mage’s Spectacles – Decipher Script, Spellcraft, & Use Magical Device.
* Necrocarnum Touch – Slight of Hand & some Bluff checks.
* Psion’s Eyes – Autohypnosis, Psycraft, Use Psionic Device
* Riding Bracers – Handle Animal & Ride.
* Sailor’s Bracers – Swim, Profession (sailor), & Use Rope.
* Silvertongue Mask – Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive.
* Theft Gloves – Disable Device, Open Lock, and Slight of Hand.
* Truthseeker Goggles - Gather Information, Search, & Sense Motive

You have essentia capacity 5, which means +10-14 in any skill you choose, as long as you keep the essentia invested.
Also, you can use the floating feat to shape soulmeld, to get almost all of these.

I'm not sure about how to tweak the level progression, but I think this is the most competent in skills, even if not with the most max ranks. He is more skilled though, with at will +10-12 on most of the skills above, and +10 to 4 skill checks when he needs is (improvise), +5 to any skill 1/day, and take 10 on everything.

woodenbandman
2008-12-05, 09:55 AM
dude 6+int is plenty, especially since you don't need strength or dex. Rogues need dex, which means less int. You need nothing but int, which means more int. an 18 (conservative) gets you 10 maxed skills, which takes care of knowledge(dungeoneering, the planes, nature, and the other members such as wizard and cleric can get the others), tumble, hide, move silently, use magic device, open lock, search and disable device. you'll, of course, have over 30 endgame, which, while it doesn't retroactively add skill points, you have near full ranks in at least 3 more skills, such as spot, listen, and diplomacy.

Not to mention that you can just dip exemplar for one level and lo, you can take 10. YAY. You ARE the skillmonkey. The only viable other class for a factotum is Chameleon, and MAYBE exemplar.

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 10:05 AM
Exemplar only gives Mastery with 1+Int mod skills. You have a fair few more than that.

Arbitrarity
2008-12-05, 11:19 AM
1 + Int mod. I'm a Chameleon.

My int mod is +15. 16 skills should be enough for most purposes.

Perhaps instead, I should switch things up a bit.
Factotum 5/Incarnate 1/Chameleon 10/Incarnate 2/Crusader 2. Still no MC penalties, and Aura of perfect order lets me take 11 on 1 d20/round. I lose 1 Essentia, which doesn't help my skills any, and a chakra slot. However, only 1 take 11/round. Meh.

Now, my skills. I have 20 initial intelligence, from race and age. Increasing INT at each level yields 256 skill points. Not the best, admittedly. However. Even untrained in a skill, I can get +22-24 (improvisation, incarnate) before stats, etc. +15 to all dex and str based skills. I still have ranks.

Fax Celestis
2008-12-05, 11:30 AM
You guys are making this too complicated:

Changeling Rogue 10 (with racial sub levels)/Exemplar 10.

10+Int for first level, 8+Int for the rest of your career. Rogue gets Skill Mastery at 10th as a special ability, Exemplar gets it four times over their career (each time is 1+Int more).

Heliomance
2008-12-05, 11:35 AM
You're thinking of Skill Artistry. Exemplars get Skill Mastery for 1+Int skills at 1st level, then for 1 more skill per level thereafter.

Fax Celestis
2008-12-05, 11:43 AM
You're thinking of Skill Artistry. Exemplars get Skill Mastery for 1+Int skills at 1st level, then for 1 more skill per level thereafter.

Why so I am. Still, I wouldn't make things overly complicated.