New Trait-Blank

[Baxter190]

Alright, I got this idea form, well, a Ciaphas Cain Novel. Heres how it goes.

Blank
Magic jues doesn't seem to work around you.

Benefit
Magic does not work within 10 ft. of you, as if you were under a natural, permantant, anti-magic fiel. When you enter a square where magic is currently active, it is suppressed, but not dispelled.

Drawback
You cannot be magically healed, or affected by any "postive" magic such as cat's grace or the such.

Roleplaying Ideas

Characters with this trait might seem to be completely zoned out, as if they we're even there mentally, or they may just seem oblivious to magic.


Any suggestions or edits I should make?

[Dorizzit]

This seems either completely useless or ridiculously overpowered, depending on your build.

[Baxter190]

Well, if you use it on a fighter or barbarian, he nulls out any mages he gets close to, makeing them even weaker. Its also cancels out the effects of some nasty curses. However, the fighterwould be able to be healed, so he would have to be really careful. Also, any thoughts on spells like fireball and meteor swarm?

[Meek]

That is pretty ridiculously overpowered I think. Anti-Magic field is one of the most annoying yet absurdly powerful effects in the whole game, the usage of which opens a rules can of worms nigh-instantly. Running around with an active AM field all the time is not something a trait should be giving out. This is a PrC ability with heavy, heavy requirements and some limit on use.

[Baxter190]

Well, then how can I reduce it so that it can be taken as a trait? Make it just personal range?

[Heliomance]

On the other hand, you CAN'T BE MAGICALLY HEALED. That's a pretty huge downside.

[Zenos]

On the other hand, you CAN'T BE MAGICALLY HEALED. That's a pretty huge downside.

Or buffed. And you can't make use of magic items like wings of flying.

[charl]

Change it so that the trait only effects mental spells or something like that, perhaps.

[Innis Cabal]

Its a pretty vicious double edged sword.

You can't use magic, but it can't hit you. I would say the con's far outweigh the pro's in a standard game of D&D

[Baxter190]

Thats what I figured. What range should I make it though? personal, or with a a square or two of reach?

[Magnor Criol]

I'd say make it a personal-ranged thing - magic, good or bad, simply doesn't effect you. This way you can't be magically hurt or magically healed, but you don't have an AMF wandering around with you wherever you go.

If you really want it to affect other creatures, them maybe when you come into contact with them, or when you enter their square, the AMF applies to them, too, but that still may be overpowered.

[Meek]

I'd say make it a personal-ranged thing - magic, good or bad, simply doesn't effect you. This way you can't be magically hurt or magically healed, but you don't have an AMF wandering around with you wherever you go.

If you really want it to affect other creatures, them maybe when you come into contact with them, or when you enter their square, the AMF applies to them, too, but that still may be overpowered.

This seems like the best solution. It's focused on you unless you like, grapple somebody.

[Heliomance]

Easier way to express it within game mechanics: You are immune to anything that allows spell resistance. This effect cannot be lowered.

[Fan]

I agree entirely.
This would either be A: horrible, or B: Horribly broken if not changed.
Otherwise I would just make a reaping mauler, and have it grapple with the Balor while activating his item of expansion to become Gargantuan of bigger, and bam A level 20 encounter becomes a CR 15 encounter.

[charl]

I agree entirely.
This would either be A: horrible, or B: Horribly broken if not changed.
Otherwise I would just make a reaping mauler, and have it grapple with the Balor while activating his item of expansion to become Gargantuan of bigger, and bam A level 20 encounter becomes a CR 15 encounter.

Except you can't use any magic items either.

[Innis Cabal]

I agree entirely.
This would either be A: horrible, or B: Horribly broken if not changed.
Otherwise I would just make a reaping mauler, and have it grapple with the Balor while activating his item of expansion to become Gargantuan of bigger, and bam A level 20 encounter becomes a CR 15 encounter.

But the Mauler would never be able to hit the AC of the creature. So it all balances out. The Balor on the other hand could cause problems.

[Heliomance]

The item wouldn't work. Also, if you become large than medium, you cease qualifying for Reaping Mauler and hence cannot use its abilities.

[Baxter190]

How about whenever a person who has this trait succesfully attacks someone, the target gets this effect as well, but only from a melee attack. My reasoning is that the blank got close enough to hit, so the blank field overlapped with the target. It would bar any magic abilities from the target, but prevent them from being hit with firball and the like.

[Fan]

Well, have him take VoP then. He doesn't NEED magic items, and with this trait it makes the feat good at higher levels.

[Innis Cabal]

Well, have him take VoP then. He doesn't NEED magic items, and with this trait it makes the feat good at higher levels.

Except not only does that limit him to say...Good. He could only be 1 class. You'd be double screwed.

[Fan]

Except not only does that limit him to say...Good. He could only be 1 class. You'd be double screwed.
true, but its the best insatnce of abuse I could think of with this trait.
Meh, I guess it isn't THAT broken.

[Stupendous_Man]

Alright, I got this idea form, well, a Ciaphas Cain Novel. Heres how it goes.

Blank
Magic jues doesn't seem to work around you.

Benefit
Magic does not work within 10 ft. of you, as if you were under a natural, permantant, anti-magic fiel. When you enter a square where magic is currently active, it is suppressed, but not dispelled.

Drawback
You cannot be magically healed, or affected by any "postive" magic such as cat's grace or the such.

Roleplaying Ideas

Characters with this trait might seem to be completely zoned out, as if they we're even there mentally, or they may just seem oblivious to magic.


Any suggestions or edits I should make?

Overpowering body odor as a side effect.

[Baxter190]

Overpowering body odor as a side effect.

Epic Win. I'm glad somebody recognized where this came from. So, will he be resistant to spells that orignated outside of his blank sphere, like fireballs and the like?

[Innis Cabal]

true, but its the best insatnce of abuse I could think of with this trait.
Meh, I guess it isn't THAT broken.

No, its really not. It screw's you over pretty bad. No magic items. No magic healing or buffing.

Your base B.A.B and saves are it. Against foes with nonmagical powers, your sunk, and fast.

[Baxter190]

Thats what I was thinking Cabal, but it would do wonders in a eberron campaign, where magic is pretty much common place. Sigil would be messed up.

[Fan]

No, its really not. It screw's you over pretty bad. No magic items. No magic healing or buffing.

Your base B.A.B and saves are it. Against foes with nonmagical powers, your sunk, and fast.

Namely a Troll. Good against Wizard's, but that's it.
Then again that, and TOB are the only things I play besides Clerics, and Druids, so that would be a kick in the proverbial balls for me.

[Zeta Kai]

At low levels (~1-5), this is ridiculously overpowered, as magical damage is high, while magical protections are low. At middle levels (~6-10), this ability starts balancing out; magical damage is increasing in prevalence & potency, while magical protections are increasingly useful. But at higher levels (~11+), the game balance assumes that you have magical healing & magical buffs (&, even more importantly, magical items/weapons/armor), so a balanced game would include higher damage of all sorts.

Sure, you're immune to the meteor swarm, but a rock dropped from a great height isn't gonna avoid hitting you just because it was hoisted up to the ionosphere by magic. And a balor is gonna bisect you easily, even if it cannot add magic to it sword. Also, good luck with that tarrasque.

Short answer: you'd make a great Commoner in a Commoner's world, but even a Fighter would run into big problems in an actual game. D&D runs on magic, so without magic, your PC won't be running for long.

[Stupendous_Man]

Short answer: you'd make a great Commoner in a Commoner's world, but even a Fighter would run into big problems in an actual game. D&D runs on magic, so without magic, your PC won't be running for long.

There's always... MARTIAL MANEUVERS!

[Innis Cabal]

There's always... MARTIAL MANEUVERS!

But with a master work weapon(or just your fists) and no special armor even if your just a sword sage your not going far.

[Baxter190]

So its good?

[Innis Cabal]

Mechanically? Ya.

[Magnor Criol]

No, it's definitely not good as-is.

The viability of no magic affecting you is still up for debate, but the ability to project and absolute null magic zone around yourself is decidedly broken.

It's really gotta be personal-range, no area of effect.

-E- Ninja'd.

[Innis Cabal]

No, it's definitely not good as-is.

The viability of no magic affecting you is still up for debate, but the ability to project and absolute null magic zone around yourself is decidedly broken. It's really gotta be personal-range, no area of effect.

That is ignoring the fact that you will screw yourself over. You won't -live- past level 8 for this to be useful.

No player would pick this.

[Magnor Criol]

That is ignoring the fact that you will screw yourself over. You won't -live- past level 8 for this to be useful.

The area effect lets you completely destroy casters - make it up to them, and suddenly they're just a low-con, d4-hit-die meatsack. Also, your party members may not really like you, since they can't have anything to do with magic as long as they're near you.

It's the ability to force the AMF on others that messes this up, not the AMF itself, so much.

[Innis Cabal]

A caster with even 14 int would be able to figure the guy out and kill him before he got close enough.

Its been said before. The magic can't kill you. But rocks and other weapons sure as heck can't.

Having played casters against AMF foes...this trait does very little to hurt you if you play smart.

[Shadow_Elf]

Soulknife and Monk, anyone?

[Innis Cabal]

Two of the "weakest" class's both with mid B.A.B...again, this will mess them up badly. Early on may make you awsome. But the awsome ends there.

[Stupendous_Man]

Soulknife and Monk, anyone?

Giacomo advocated an AMF UMD monk.

it didn't turn out well, iirc.


And Soulknife wouldn't work due to magic/psionic transparency

[Heliomance]

Only if you're playing with magic-psionics transparency. It's an optional rule.

[Stupendous_Man]

Bad things happen when you have psions and wizards in the same campaign without transparency.

Wizard: A dragon!
Psion: Sweet, no psi-resistance!


Psion: A Psion-Killer!
Wizard: Sweet, no spell resistance!

[Innis Cabal]

And if that were the case then it would work for both anyway. At least if I was DMing.

[Baxter190]

So how would the Blank be able to force the nulling-effects onto other characters? Grapple only?

[Innis Cabal]

Even then. Baxter. They'd be awsome at the first few levels but then going up against bigger and meaner creatures or maneuver users....they'd be hosed.

[Faithdreamer]

No, it isn't.

Change the fluff of getting a kick in the bum -- after working so hard the Prinny deserves the chance it earned.

And give them DR1/Slashing or Piercing

EDIT: Meant for Prinny Thread

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Only if you're playing with magic-psionics transparency. It's an optional rule.

Actually, it's the standard rule--Psionics Are Different is the variant. In 1e and 2e they were different, but 3e standardized them.


And Soulknife wouldn't work due to magic/psionic transparency
It doesn't matter either way:

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.
It would be a pain to make it work, but it is indeed possible.

[Eloel]

Alright, I got this idea form, well, a Ciaphas Cain Novel. Heres how it goes.

Blank
Magic jues doesn't seem to work around you.

Benefit
Magic does not work within 10 ft. of you, as if you were under a natural, permantant, anti-magic fiel. When you enter a square where magic is currently active, it is suppressed, but not dispelled.

Drawback
You cannot be magically healed, or affected by any "postive" magic such as cat's grace or the such.

Roleplaying Ideas

Characters with this trait might seem to be completely zoned out, as if they we're even there mentally, or they may just seem oblivious to magic.


Any suggestions or edits I should make?

That's a Flaw, not a Trait.

[Heliomance]

No it's not. Flaws never carry any upside. This has the upside that you can't be affected by hostile magic.

[Eloel]

You can't use wondrous items, you can't use magical weapons/armor, you can't use potions, you can't use any other form of magic. Seems flawly to me.

[Heliomance]

Yes, but again, that enemy wizard over there can't do a thing to you. Flaws never carry any sort of an upside, this carries both an upside and a downside. Ergo, it's a Trait. The fact that the downside outweighs the upside makes it a bad trait, not a flaw.

[Knaight]

The enemy wizard can kick your sorry ass if they have an ounce of creativity. Your immune to shatter. The ceiling above you, probably made out of heavy stone, is not, and it will fall down. The floor below you is totally not immune to fireball, and your not immune to the ambient heat from a superheated floor. The floor below you also isn't immune to being shot with a burst from a decanter of endless water followed by a quickened lightning bolt, which never even targets you.

[Heliomance]

Shattering the ceiling to do damage to someone underneath requires DM fiat.
Heating the floor with Fireball requires DM fiat and is not realistic - fireball comes and goes too fast to heat the floor to damaging levels. It would just make it a bit warm.
Water+lightning bolt requires DM fiat, and it's still magical lightning, so you'd still be immune.

Sorry, what was your point again?

[olelia]

I think many people are still forgetting when the wizard walk along with orb spells and destroys the non-magical jo schmoe :smallfrown:.

[Innis Cabal]

There are spells that make secondary effects you'd not be immune to.

Like Earth to Lava.

And dying from rocks falling on you's not so much diam fait more like....realistic. Physics still works somewhat in D&D'

Edit: Orb spells wont work. This is an Anti-Magic Field.

[Aergoth]

You might also want to add that the person cannot be the possessor of spell-like abilities. You could expand it to psionics as well.
And magic items wouldn't work. Add that to the description.

[Heliomance]

Allowing someone to take damage if they are standing under a ceiling when someone casts Shatter on it is not covered by the rules and therefore requires DM fiat. I will concede the point on Rock to Lava, but isn't that like an 8th level spell?

[olelia]

Actually if I remeber correctly they're instantanuous(sp?) conjuration which means when pitched outside of the AM they are no longer magical. So your actually chucking a ball of said energy.

Edit:Clarification, which means your hitting them with non magical energy.

[Heliomance]

No, it doesn't. You'd chuck the orb, and it would fizzle when it reached them.

[Aergoth]

What about avalanche? Summoned creatures would be dismissed, I think.

[olelia]

Creation
A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

Emphasis added
Thus with this reasoning AMF doesn't affect the spell...because after you throw it is no longer part of it.

[Innis Cabal]

I think its 9th level.

And there is rules for falling damage. Rocks and such falling fall under falling damage.

[Aergoth]

Better one, Goodberry (berries?). Creates a magic item. What happens to the berry created. What about Acorn Grenades (i think that's the spell)

[olelia]

Your thinking of fire seed for the acorns :smallbiggrin:. But since both have a duration both would be suppressed as long as they are in the AM field.

[Innis Cabal]

Anything magical in nature ceases in an anti-magic field. Everything.

[olelia]

That's the point though...the orb spells aren't magical once thrown. You use magic to summon a ball of fire from point X and then chuck said fire. The fire has no magical connections, the only magical part is the summoning.

Edit: Ah found what I was looking for. From the AM field spell.


Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

Emphasis added

[Innis Cabal]

Its still a spell. The orb spells do not function in or going through an AMF area. Thus they would not function in this regard.


Edit: there is nothing in the spell description of Orb or Acid or any other that indicates that you "summon an orb and then throw it" it actually says an orb launch's from your palm.

[olelia]

Correct, and the spell itself is conjuration. Duration? Instant. Thus. As I've quoted. AM field has NO EFFECT.

[Edit] To actually expand upon it. The AM Field has no effect on the effect of the spell. The effect of the orb spell is to damage you and thus would still damage the guy.

[Duke of URL]

So how would the Blank be able to force the nulling-effects onto other characters? Grapple only?

Melee touch attack to suppress for 1 round. Subsequent hits stack to a maximum of N rounds (N=4? 5?).

Now, a flurry VoP monk making touch attacks might actually be useful.

[Heliomance]

I think its 9th level.

And there is rules for falling damage. Rocks and such falling fall under falling damage.

Yep. You're absolutely right, there are. Deciding that those rules apply when you shatter a ceiling is DM fiat. There's no particular reason that the spell has to create bits big enough to do damage. It might well reduce it to the consistency of gravel, or even dust.

[charl]

Yep. You're absolutely right, there are. Deciding that those rules apply when you shatter a ceiling is DM fiat. There's no particular reason that the spell has to create bits big enough to do damage. It might well reduce it to the consistency of gravel, or even dust.

Of course when you are underground there would be A LOT of gravel. Enough to kill anyone.

[olelia]

Unless said ceiling is under a volcano...then I think the least of your conerns is gravel :smalleek:.

[Knaight]

Shattering the ceiling to do damage to someone underneath requires DM fiat.
Heating the floor with Fireball requires DM fiat and is not realistic - fireball comes and goes too fast to heat the floor to damaging levels. It would just make it a bit warm.
Water+lightning bolt requires DM fiat, and it's still magical lightning, so you'd still be immune.

Sorry, what was your point again?

OK, my bad. Apparently I made the mistaken assumption that part of the reason the GM was there was to adjudicate when players tried to do something other than a generic attack entirely covered by the rules, and that part of the draw to tabletop RPGs was the openness and non-restrictiveness. As most people clearly don't play like this I have to withdraw my statement. Although the fireball one actually could be dismissed by a GM, provided that the floor is stone, and not carpet, wood, etc. Stone to Mud would probably work then, turning everything to mud except for the ground under the characters feet, then just having flying creatures beat up on them while they try to avoid having the mud around(although not directly touching) their feet get turned back to stone while they are in it. As for lightning bolt its magical lightning that touches the water, presumably normal lightning also comes off of it once it does, as the moving conduits and such could amplify it in such a way that it splits.

[Baxter190]

Alright, thanks everybody for the help and opinions. But as it has ben pointed out, later in the gam, players with this trait would be screwed. As such, to helpt them out and encourage use of ths trait, I would like to make a class for this. Anyone want to help?

[Val]

What about, say, a magical lock or something?