PDA

View Full Version : That's right, rezzing an old thread, with new questions [3.5]



herrhauptmann
2008-12-07, 05:44 PM
Getting ready for an ECL 15 game, just found out the DM has a small rule, if your arcane caster dies, you don't get to make another arcane caster. It's gotta be something different...

Currently going to make a dwarven defender.

Feats: dodge, endurance toughness (for PrC)
Also
shieldward,
P. Attack,
Cleave (skipping great cleave because I'm not expecting to be a damage monster)
Nimbus of Light and another Exalted feat (this will give me access to Risen Martyr PrC, so I get an extra chance to keep playing the dwarf
That leaves 3 feats...
I could go weap focus, weap spec, g. weap focus. Or use a feat to give shield bonus to adjacent allies.

Items:
I have a question regarding these. Is it possible to have a named item from DMG increased in power?
ex: Breastplate of Command: a +2 breastplate with other stuff total price is 25400 (about 4500 of which is the +2 breastplate itself). So would a +3 breastplate of command cost 30400? (difference between +2 and +3 armor added to the other stuff from the breastplate of command)

The reason I'm asking, is I saw the Redeemed Demon armor from Book of Exalted Deeds ( still +4 plate, with claw attacks of 1d10) but it also does the sword of conscience spell (BoED) when struck. And I would like to further enchant the suit of armor with some other effects (including Blueshine)

If I can't get that redeemed demon armor upgraded, might just go for soulfire armor (+4 enhancement), makes me immune to level drain, stat loss and negative energy (if I read it write).

Also getting a amulet of retaliation (BoED), half of any damage I take gets transferred to the striker. All damage resulting from attack, half is sent to striker, however, being hit with a poisoned weapon, only I receive the poison, not the attacker (per item description). But if attacker is using the item 'Poison Dagger' does he also get poisoned? Because in that case, the poison is an effect of the weapon itself, not something that was added on.

Keld Denar
2008-12-07, 06:11 PM
Dwarven Defender is bad. It's not even very good at what it does(give you a high AC), and its very bad at what its supposted to do(tank). You are either gonna get ignored, or things are gonna hit you regardless of how defendery you may be.

If you want to be a dwarven tank, try my dwarven build:
Dwarven Flurry Fury! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15422232&postcount=1) He wields an Urgosh!!!!! Freakin awesome. Spoilered for your convenience.

So, I was thinking of an idea...who ever uses the Dwarven Urgosh....I do! The trick is, not to use it as a double weapon, but to wield each side individually as if you were wielding 2 twohanded weapons. That way, you get all the benefits of 2handed fighting (1.5x str, 2:1 PA) but you are still using an awesome ass weapon and qualify for Flurry of Strikes and Slashing Fury.

Dwarven Urgosh Flurry Fury!
Dwarf 28 PB Str 16, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6
Final stats with items Str 26 (30 rage), Dex 10, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6
1 Ranger1 Track, Endurance Favored Enemy: Arcanists (get 4 ranks in prereq skills, 2 ranks Kn:Relig xclass)
2 Fighter1 Power Attack (5th rank in Climb + Jump)
3 Fighter2 Hold the Line, Weapon Focus: Urgosh (5th rank Kn: Dung xclass)
4 Barbarian1 Spirit Lion Totem (5th rank in Survival class + 3 Craft:Weapon)
5 Barbarian2 Uncanny Dodge (3rd + 4th rank Kn:Relig xclass)
6 Deepwarden1 Track again... True Believer (Kn:Arc 3 ranks)
7 Deepwarden2 Stonewarden (Kn:Arc 4th rank xclass Spellcraft 2 ranks xclass)
8 Pious Templar1 Mettle (Spellcraft 3rd rank xclass)
9 Pious Templar2 Improved Init (Spellcraft 4th rank xclass)
10 Pious Templar3 Weapon Spec:Urgosh
11 Exotic Weapon Master1 Flurry of Strikes Trick
12 Pious Templar4 Leap Attack Melee Weapon Mastery: Slashing
13 Occult Slayer1
14 Occult Slayer2
15 Occult Slayer3 Slashing Fury
16 Occult Slayer4
17 Occult Slayer5
18 Pious Templar5 Battle Blessing
19 Pious Templar6
20 Pious Templar7

So, what do you get?

Con to AC (AC 37 with +5 mith fullplate and +5 animated shield, 41 vs giants)
Mettle
7th level PT casting as swift actions (spells like Righteous Fury and Rhino's Rush)
Mind Blank
Spell Reflection 2x/day
40 movement in Mith Fullplate while Hasted.
Pounce
DR 2/-
Very strong fort save, decent will save, weakish reflex save (meh)
Full 20/20 BAB
Smite Attack (good for final iterative)
Always set for a charge (Hold the Line) + Double damage from Urgosh spike
Best part is: with Haste, feats, str, and +5 weapon, attacks at +30, +30, +30, +30, +25, +20, +15 before misc buffs.

A bit of a late bloomer, but all in all, very strong offensively and defensively.

Gear at 20 is +6 str and con items, Boots of Speed, +1 Animated Energy Immunity Deathward Mithril Lg Shield(with MV), +1 Energy Immunity Deathward Mithril Fullplate(with MV) probably a +5 Vest of Resistance. Still lots of room for gear. Probably a +1 Wounding Transmuting Valorous//+1 Brilliant Energy Urgosh, made from Adamantine or Star Metal.


Its basically your average BDF build, with some good immunities and some nice buff casting with PT spells (use Spell Compendium). Good damage output like any self respecting melee character, but more robust. Why does high damage have to come at the expense of defenses? This guy kicks ass.

trehek
2008-12-07, 06:26 PM
I've had a Dwarven Defender played in two of my campaigns, and I have to agree with the above poster that it's not very good. It lacks an ability to pull the attention of enemies. Most of the time the Defender just gets ignored. It gets better though, if you combo the class with some reach weapon and feats which hinder the opponents in threat range enough to make them hate you.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-07, 06:32 PM
I've had a Dwarven Defender played in two of my campaigns, and I have to agree with the above poster that it's not very good. It lacks an ability to pull the attention of enemies. Most of the time the Defender just gets ignored. It gets better though, if you combo the class with some reach weapon and feats which hinder the opponents in threat range enough to make them hate you.

Like Vexing flanker, adaptable flanker and hindering opportunist?
One lets me give an aid another any time I get an AOO. (Good because we had a large party, with only 2 frontline fighters plus my chain guy. Used aid another to lower AC enough so they could actualy hit the dragon)
Another gives me +4 when I flank instead of +2,
Lastly gives my allies flanking from any square which I threaten.

Wanted to use those for last character, a combat reflexes tripper human with Jotunbrud (act as large for opposed rolls where favorable. Count as large when being eaten whole by creatures like purple worm). However that game died after a few sessions.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-07, 06:42 PM
What's wrong with switching to a divine caster? There are lots of good options that way. Be a Favored Soul who worships Lolth, and you'll get
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip)
Weapon Focus (whip)
Weapon Specialization (whip)
Note you can use a whip dagger (automatic proficiency if you're proficient with whips) for lethal damage, and you threaten everything within 15'. You can add the Lolth-Touched template (Monster Manual IV pages 92-94) for only +1 LA; it gives STR +6, CON +4, +4 on Hide and Move Silently, and immunity to fear.

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-07, 06:44 PM
"Oh no, it's a Dwarven Defender!"

"Come, let us briskly walk away!"

Optimystik
2008-12-07, 06:46 PM
What's wrong with switching to a divine caster? There are lots of good options that way. Be a Favored Soul who worships Lolth, and you'll get
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip)
Weapon Focus (whip)
Weapon Specialization (whip)
Note you can use a whip dagger (automatic proficiency if you're proficient with whips) for lethal damage, and you threaten everything within 15'. You can add the Lolth-Touched template (Monster Manual IV pages 92-94) for only +1 LA; it gives STR +6, CON +4, +4 on Hide and Move Silently, and immunity to fear.

Sure you don't mean Loviatar? Lloth's FW is a dagger, IIRC.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-07, 06:48 PM
Sure you don't mean Loviatar? Lloth's FW is a dagger, IIRC. Actually, you don't remember correctly. Whip is the favored weapon listed on page 109 of Complete Divine.

Keld Denar
2008-12-07, 06:49 PM
Like Vexing flanker, adaptable flanker and hindering opportunist?
One lets me give an aid another any time I get an AOO. (Good because we had a large party, with only 2 frontline fighters plus my chain guy. Used aid another to lower AC enough so they could actualy hit the dragon)
Another gives me +4 when I flank instead of +2,
Lastly gives my allies flanking from any square which I threaten.

Wanted to use those for last character, a combat reflexes tripper human with Jotunbrud (act as large for opposed rolls where favorable. Count as large when being eaten whole by creatures like purple worm). However that game died after a few sessions.

More like Thicket of Blades stance (Tome of Battle), Combat Reflexes, and the Standstill feat. This keeps enemies in arms reach, so if your friends stay kind of far back, your foe will have to attack you.

Crusader is a beautiful tank...everything a DD should have been, and more.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-07, 06:49 PM
Questions about your build Keld...

The trick is, not to use it as a double weapon, but to wield each side individually as if you were wielding 2 twohanded weapons.

You're referring to swapping which end of the urgrosh you use, right? Say axe head for normal combat, and only switch to spear head when setting for a charge?
Also, which god has the urgrosh as a favored weapon.



Favored Enemy: Arcanists

?? Choosing arcane casters as a favored enemy? Which book is that in?

metagaia
2008-12-07, 06:50 PM
What's wrong with switching to a divine caster? There are lots of good options that way. Be a Favored Soul who worships Lolth, and you'll get
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip)
Weapon Focus (whip)
Weapon Specialization (whip)
Note you can use a whip dagger (automatic proficiency if you're proficient with whips) for lethal damage, and you threaten everything within 15'. You can add the Lolth-Touched template (Monster Manual IV pages 92-94) for only +1 LA; it gives STR +6, CON +4, +4 on Hide and Move Silently, and immunity to fear.

A probably non-evil dwarf that worships Lolth!? Boy is that going to be a RP challenge...

Optimystik
2008-12-07, 06:51 PM
Actually, you don't remember correctly. Whip is the favored weapon listed on page 109 of Complete Divine.

That teaches me to rely on web sources.:smalltongue: (Get it??)
+1 post count

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-07, 06:52 PM
Actually, you don't remember correctly. Whip is the favored weapon listed on page 109 of Complete Divine.

The scantily, leather clad goddess of the drow favors whips. Who'd have thought?

Keld Denar
2008-12-07, 06:56 PM
Yea, as long as you don't claim extra attacks with your Urgosh, you can treat it as a 2 single 2handed weapons that you can "quickdraw" between. So, if you have a BAB of 11, you can make 3 attacks with the axe, 3 attacks with the spike, or 2 axe/1 spike, or 2 spike/1 axe, etc. If you make 4 attacks in a round using TWF, you'd have to make them axe/axe/axe/spike or spike/spike/spike/axe and you'd only get 1x str with the primary side and .5x str with the opposite side. This is bad. Stick to your normal number of attacks and you'll get more use out of it. It is more versitile because you can swap ends to overcome different DRs if required, which is nice. The real glory comes with the fact that since its a double weapon, it qualifies for EWM's Flurry of Strikes trick, which grants you an extra attack with a -2 penalty to all attacks. Since this counts as a normal attack, it also recieves 1.5x str bonus. Thats good!

Favored Enemy: Arcanists is a feature in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage. I forget which one, but its not a standard PHB thing. Its about the best choice though, since LOTS of things qualify as Arcanists, and you get your OS +1d6 bonus damage against all of them as well.

As far as gods favoring Urgoshes....uh....I dunno. Make one up? Its a Dwarven Urgosh for gods sake, one of those bearded buggers has to use it...

Curmudgeon
2008-12-07, 07:04 PM
A probably non-evil dwarf that worships Lolth!? Boy is that going to be a RP challenge... Not as much as you think. The standard convention is that you can be within one step of the deity's alignment. So CN is fine. Not evil, just unpredictable.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-07, 07:14 PM
Favored Enemy: Arcanists is a feature in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage. I forget which one, but its not a standard PHB thing. Its about the best choice though, since LOTS of things qualify as Arcanists, and you get your OS +1d6 bonus damage against all of them as well.

As far as gods favoring Urgoshes....uh....I dunno. Make one up? Its a Dwarven Urgosh for gods sake, one of those bearded buggers has to use it...

The favored enemy arcanist is something I totally wasn't expecting, so thanks on that one.

DM is big on us not making things up, so I'll be using a feat for the weapon focus. We're allowed up to 2 flaws, so it's not a biggie. (I'll keep looking through splatbooks to see if I can find one though)


EDIT: One dwarven god has 'axe' in her name, yet her favored weapon is a greatsword...

Optimystik
2008-12-07, 07:17 PM
A probably non-evil dwarf that worships Lolth!? Boy is that going to be a RP challenge...

"Grugni was raised in the Underdark as a slave to the noble drow house of XXX and the only times that they had cessations in her daily beatings were during the house's ritual observations of the Spider Queen. Though at first she viewed her lot with extreme resentment, she came to equate her reprieves from the unattainable standards of her leash-holders with the mercies of the Lady Herself - and her brutal punishments as the forging of her soul in the smithy of The Great Dark."

Pick your favorite way for her to reach the surface (smuggled by duergar, exploding wizard's tower during portal experiment, divine intervention, etc.), stick a whip in her hands and the mad desire to "convert" every dwarf she meets to worship of the Spider Queen, and bingo.

Keld Denar
2008-12-07, 07:22 PM
Clangeddin Silverbeard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clangeddin_Silverbeard#Clanggedin_Silverbeard) might be what you are after, although the wiki page doesn't have his favored weapon. I'm a long ways from my copy of Races of Stone, sadly. What setting do you play in? Generic core? Greyhawk? Realms?

herrhauptmann
2008-12-07, 07:30 PM
Realms: Clangeddin has a battleaxe.

Keld Denar
2008-12-07, 07:32 PM
Realms: Clangeddin has a battleaxe.

An Urgosh is like a Battle Axe (1d8 x3) duct taped to a short spear (1d6 x3). Call it a modified Battle Axe, worship Clangeddin, and call it a day?

I dunno.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-08, 02:00 AM
What the hell is the cleric domain 'dwarf '? Most of the dwarven pantheon in FR has it, but I can't seem to find it listed anywhere.

Rising Phoenix
2008-12-08, 02:13 AM
What the hell is the cleric domain 'dwarf '? Most of the dwarven pantheon in FR has it, but I can't seem to find it listed anywhere.

Hello,

Fairly sure it's in Spell Compedium.

Cheers!

R.P.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-08, 10:35 AM
You're right, it is. Just would've expected to find it in a book printed around the same time as the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting instead of 3 years later.

daggaz
2008-12-08, 12:28 PM
"Grugni was raised in the Underdark as a slave to the noble drow house of XXX and the only times that they had cessations in her daily beatings were during the house's ritual observations of the Spider Queen. Though at first she viewed her lot with extreme resentment, she came to equate her reprieves from the unattainable standards of her leash-holders with the mercies of the Lady Herself - and her brutal punishments as the forging of her soul in the smithy of The Great Dark."

Pick your favorite way for her to reach the surface (smuggled by duergar, exploding wizard's tower during portal experiment, divine intervention, etc.), stick a whip in her hands and the mad desire to "convert" every dwarf she meets to worship of the Spider Queen, and bingo.


Which doesn't do a thing to counter the fact that the Spider Queen despises all non-drow, and even devours the males of her own species, considering them to be little more than necessary for procreation and a convenient snack.

When munchkinism defeats divine fluff, you get cheese.
Thank you, come again.

only1doug
2008-12-08, 02:55 PM
Actually, you don't remember correctly. Whip is the favored weapon listed on page 109 of Complete Divine.

a spider (dagger) is listed as Lloth's favored weapon on page 40 of Forgotten Realms Faiths and pantheons.



That teaches me to rely on web sources.:smalltongue: (Get it??)

the "web" was right. (depending on GM's preference of source).

Starbuck_II
2008-12-08, 03:22 PM
Which doesn't do a thing to counter the fact that the Spider Queen despises all non-drow, and even devours the males of her own species, considering them to be little more than necessary for procreation and a convenient snack.

When munchkinism defeats divine fluff, you get cheese.
Thank you, come again.

You can worship a Diety even if they don't like you:
Be a Cleric of a Cause, all the [cool] kids are doing it :smallbiggrin:

Curmudgeon
2008-12-08, 05:25 PM
a spider (dagger) is listed as Lloth's favored weapon on page 40 of Forgotten Realms Faiths and pantheons. So they decided to tame the Spider Queen? Bah! Bah, I say! Lolth is a core deity. The FR people are just wrong confused.

Eldariel
2008-12-08, 05:37 PM
I'd like to point out that Bloodstorm Blade Dwarven Defender is a perfectly fine character, especially with a two-level Deep Warden-dip. You'll basically have Str/Con for everything. And you hit things. Hard. Within few hundred feet at least.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-08, 06:27 PM
I'd like to point out that Bloodstorm Blade Dwarven Defender is a perfectly fine character.

Bloodstorm blade? Is that something from Tome of Battle?

As for making a dwarf priest of lolth, I got nothing. I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that if a god has only worshippers of a race, you must be that race to be a cleric of that god. Like only dwarves can be clerics of Moradin and Clangeddin.
But there is a way around that, at least for Goliaths, dwarves, and gnomes. The stoneblessed PrC. After all 3 levels, you can qualify for all PrC's, feats and items which only members of those races qualify. You also gain most of the features of that race, stone cunning, +4 dodge vs giants, +1 att vs orcs/goblinoids, even a +2 Con at the end of it.
Yes, I did contemplate a halfogre dwarven defender warhulk with huge spiked chain and strongarm bracers. :) [/cheese]

Tacoma
2008-12-08, 06:33 PM
What the hell is the cleric domain 'dwarf '? Most of the dwarven pantheon in FR has it, but I can't seem to find it listed anywhere.

It's a mishmash of spells from 2E that combine the lamest selections of the old Dwarven Beermaster (a variant Aquamancer specialist wizard) and the scattered facial hair related spells from everything prior to 1995. It's from Player's Option: Greyhawk.

Anyway, the answer of course since you cannot play an arcane caster is to play a character with maximum CHA at all costs, Leadership, with a cohort who is an Arcane caster. Then just assume control of the cohort and have the party members sign a collective contract that includes the undersigned members as "full members of the adventuring company" and sign both your main and your cohort.

Off the main. Cement shoes, whatever. The cohort stays and probably all the followers scatter. You are now playing what you want, perhaps minus a level or two.

Eldariel
2008-12-08, 06:58 PM
Bloodstorm blade? Is that something from Tome of Battle?

Yes. Basically, it's a thrown weapon specialist PrC. Basically, you get to treat your thrown attacks as melee attacks, and if you wield the thrown weapon in two hands, you get to deal two-handed damage with the thrown weapon. It costs you a swift action each round to activate. You basically need 2-4 levels of it to be able to make ranged full attacks with whatever weapon you're wielding and treat them as melee attacks. Then you're free to go Dwarven Defender and your opponents are pretty friggin' unable to ignore you. You can even use all the normal control tools like tripping and bull rush with Bloodstorm Blade. And you can enter it level 5, allowing you to get either two levels before the minimum entry to Defender, or 4 levels before level 10 entry to Defender, or 4 levels + 2 levels of Deepwarden before level 12 entry to Defender (getting to level 9 Defender by level 20).

Really, Defender has annoying entry prerequisites though - it's like it's made to not be entered. Toughness? OMGWTFBBQ? Endurance? Is this the allstars of worst feats in D&D? Dodge, the perennial bookkeeping headache? At least it's not Mobility too... Oh yeah, and +7 BAB. For real. And you have to be a Dwarf so that the feats hit you especially hard (due to the lack of level 1 bonus). 'cause screwing players is fun!


If I was making a Dwarven Defender, it would be:
Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Deepwarden 2/Dwarven Defender 9. And a lot of swearing because I don't get to finish Defender before Epic. Stupid PrC planners. You get Improved Trip (without having to worry about prereqs) from Barbarian (lose Fast Movement for something too), get to pick up PBS and Precise Shot from Fighter, martial maneuvers from Warblade, use a feat for Dodge, get Toughness and Endurance on 3 and 6, get Rapid Shot, Power Attack and all that crap, crossclass Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and Heal into 5 for Deepwarden, go around tossing ricochetting axes tripping everyone you hit and getting that free attack with two-handed power attack.

Optimystik
2008-12-08, 07:02 PM
Which doesn't do a thing to counter the fact that the Spider Queen despises all non-drow, and even devours the males of her own species, considering them to be little more than necessary for procreation and a convenient snack.

When munchkinism defeats divine fluff, you get cheese.
Thank you, come again.

If Lloth got interested enough to take personal umbrage at this poor little "munchkin," the dwarf would probably be honored to her toenails, spider chow or not.

Notice also I made her female, to slightly increase her chances of being an amusing curiosity to the Queen.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-08, 07:11 PM
Really, Defender has annoying entry prerequisites though - it's like it's made to not be entered. Toughness? OMGWTFBBQ? Endurance? Is this the allstars of worst feats in D&D? Dodge, the perennial bookkeeping headache? At least it's not Mobility too... Oh yeah, and +7 BAB. For real. And you have to be a Dwarf so that the feats hit you especially hard (due to the lack of level 1 bonus). 'cause screwing players is fun!

I agree that DD has craptastic entry requirements. At least make it improved toughness instead of toughness. (Don't get it, there was an improved toughness in Sword and Fist and Masters of Wild, but they waited until PHB 2 to make it 3.5).
Endurance only useful if the fight is absurdly long and your defensive stance ends, now you're only winded instead of fatigued. I like the idea of the bloodhammer, melee enemies walk away, you punish them for it from a distance. What're they gonna do if they don't like that? Come up close and start bashing you again? :)

Is it one hammer throw a round? Or one for each attack you can possibly make in a round

Eldariel
2008-12-08, 07:25 PM
I agree that DD has craptastic entry requirements. At least make it improved toughness instead of toughness. (Don't get it, there was an improved toughness in Sword and Fist and Masters of Wild, but they waited until PHB 2 to make it 3.5).
Endurance only useful if the fight is absurdly long and your defensive stance ends, now you're only winded instead of fatigued. I like the idea of the bloodhammer, melee enemies walk away, you punish them for it from a distance. What're they gonna do if they don't like that? Come up close and start bashing you again? :)

Is it one hammer throw a round? Or one for each attack you can possibly make in a round

You get to make a full attack with one weapon on level 4 (earlier on, you'd need multiple weapons and Quick Draw to do the same). Basically, the weapon immediately ricochets back to your hand and you can catch it as a free action, allowing you to make a full thrown attack with the same weapon (great for enchanting, for example). Heck, it even allows you to make a mix of melee- and ranged attacks in one round with your iteratives. A full attack with Whirling Frenzy, Rapid Shot, Haste-effect and 16 BAB makes for a total of 7 ranged attacks treated as melee attacks with full Power Attack-capability, for example (all based on your newly improved Strength). You also get Throw Anything as a free bonus feat in Bloodstorm Blade 1, so you can literally throw any weapon you feel like.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-12, 03:24 AM
I think the DM enjoys shooting me in the ass.

No totem barbarians. No whirling frenzy. Thri-kreen always get the +2 ECL, even if they're nonpsionic.
If I take a flaw that affects my saves, it's going to be a -6 instead of a -3 on the basis that I can afford a +5 cloak.
So if a level one character makes it up to level 15, at what point does his flaw suddenly get more pronounced?? F****!

Starting to think the only game in town isn't worth this.

Tacoma
2008-12-12, 07:22 PM
No totem barbarians. No whirling frenzy.

Maybe he doesn't think those things are balanced. A better choice is to rebalance them. But you can't expect him to be perfect.


Thri-kreen always get the +2 ECL, even if they're nonpsionic.

This is jacked. If you lose significant abilities on a race then its ECL should be re-evaluated. Then again maybe he feels losing that ability isn't enough to lower to below +2. Maybe he felt it was overpowered in the first place and losing psionics drops it in like with other +2s.



If I take a flaw that affects my saves, it's going to be a -6 instead of a -3 on the basis that I can afford a +5 cloak.

He is retarded. If you have -4 to your save that's going to be just as important whether you have other bonuses or not. And if you take feats or magic items to mitigate that you're losing the opportunity to take other feats and magic items.
Following his logic, if you have high attack bonus then True Strike should give you (not everyone else) +10 instead of +20.



Starting to think the only game in town isn't worth this.
Is anyone else at the table getting shafted like this by arbitrary rules that aren't very good? Ask them. If it truly is you, then bring it up to your DM before the game or after when nobody else is around. If they're getting screwed over too, you all might want to tell the DM that his restrictions are getting a little difficult to play with.

That said Herr, if I were DMing 3E again, I wouldn't let people play Thri-Kreen, or worship Lolth unless they were Evil (and it'd kind of have to be an Evil campaign). Everything in the core books would be in but any splatbooks would be on a case by case basis. Third party books would generally be a "no". So maybe you're thinking about this from the wrong perspective.

Without worrying about class or race or special abilities, what kind of character do you want to play? How do you want him to interact with the game world? What role should he play in a fight?

Except in very extreme circumstances, you don't need to go outside core to play the character you want.

People just have this feeling that they need to power up and squeeze as much out of each level as possible. But that instinct combined with your DM's arbitrary restrictions is making you unhappy.

Keld Denar
2008-12-13, 12:39 AM
My build still works without Lion Totem...although it does lose a bit. One hit on a charge is still decent though. Otherwise, you can rely on your party caster to port you into position with Quickened Benign Transposition or Dimension Door.

Check it out, I updated it to include Uncanny Blow!

herrhauptmann
2008-12-20, 06:17 PM
EDIT: Forgot to include stats:smalleek:
Stats at level 1: Str 18 Dex 15 Con 19 Int 15 Wis 14 Cha 11
At level 15: Str 20 and Con 22

1) Bbn 1 Dodge, Power attack (Flaw,still searching for Dragon magazine) Know Religion 4, Jump 4, Climb 4, Know Dungeon 4, Survival 4, Heal 4
Rage (lose when I go lawful for dwarven defender), Movement +10 ft keep even when lawful.
2) Bbn2 (Uncanny dodge) Know Religion 5, Jump 5, Climb 5, Know Dungeon 5, Survival 5, Heal 5

3)Clr 1. Endurance. Jump 6, Climb 6, UMD 1, Ride 1
Racial sub level. Lose turning, gain giant smiting (races of stone)
4)Ftr 1 Improved Toughness Jump 7, Climb 7, UMD 2, Ride 2

5)Dwarf paragon 1 Jump 8, Climb 8, UMD 3, Ride 3
Craft Expertise, Improved Stonecunning
6)Dwarf paragon 2 True believer Climb 9, UMD 5, Ride 4, Tumble 1,
Darkvisin +30ft, Saves bonus
7 Pious templar 1 Climb 10, UMD 5, Tumble 2, Ride 5,
Mettle. If spell save allows fort half, or will partial, I take no effect.
8) PT 2 UMD 6, Know planes 1, Search 1, Spot 1
Smite 1/day. +4 att. +1 damage/PT level
9) PT 3 ,Greater Weapon focus UMD 7, Know planes 2, Search 2, Spot 2
(weapon spec of deity weapon free), DR 1/-
10) Paragon 3 UMD 8, Know planes 3, Search 3, Spot 3
(Con +2)
11)Deepwarden 1 UMD 9, Planes 4, Search 4, Spot 4
Track, Trap sense 1
12)Deepwarden 2 Melee weapon mastery. UMD 10, Pleans 5, Search 5, Spot 5
Stonewarden: Con to AC (lose whenever I would lose dex to ac)
13)Dwarven Defender 1 Balance 4
Defensive stance 1/day. AC +1
14)PT 4 Cleave Swim 4
Gain a bonus feat.
15) Ftr 2. Slashing fury, Leap Attack. Balance 5, Swim 5, Tumble 4

Was afraid DM would rule I can't get full con to AC on the basis that my armor has a low max dex penalty, and anything which causes me to lose dex bonus will cause me to lose con.

Could really use some help on skills at this point.

Future plans:

Dwarven defender 2. For uncanny dodge.
Find a way to enter Exotic Weapon master without using another feat for weapon focus.
Beyond that, maybe advance pious templar a little more. Doubt a free feat is worth extra 2 levels of fighter.

Basic equipment. Going to purchase more once I figure out how much I've spent. Included will be wand of restoration and similar spells.

Armor:
Mithral Interlocking plate (Races of stone). AC8, max dex +2, ACP -4. 25lb. 10900 gp
+3 armor.
Soulfire +4 (BoED)
Blueshine +1500 (MIC)
Called +2000 (MIC)
Agility 3 (or 5) (MIC) 4000 (or 8000)
49k + 3500 + 10900 +4000 (or 8000)
tower shield AC 4.
+1 Armor
Animated (+2)
Called +2000
180+ 9000 +2000
Weapon:
Large Urgrosh 1d10/1d8 x3.
+2 weap
Blessed (+1) BoED
Everbright +2000 (MIC)
Shadow strike +5000 (MIC)
350(times 1.5 or 2) +2000 + 5000 + 9000
Strongarm bracers 6000
Boots of Haste 27kHaste effect at will
Retribution AMulet 56k


AC: 10+ 11 (armor) + 5(shield) +1 DD + 6 (con) +2 (sacred) +1 (haste dodge)= 36
Modifiers:If move 5ft or less, AC +2, Dodge feat +1, vs Giants +4, Defensive Stance +4, Con raises by 4 in stance for extra +2.

Attacks: Base 14/9/4
Urgrosh
14/14/9/4 +2 feats, +1 haste, +2 magic +5 str (+1 stance)
1d10 +2 feat +2 magic + 7 (str) or (+9 when in stance)
or
14/14/14/9/4 (extra attack form slashing fury). +2 feats, +1 haste, +2 magic, +5str -5 fury (+1 stance)
1d10 +2 feat +2 magic +7 str or (+9 when in stance)
Piercing end is similar but -2 attack, -2 damage, no fifth attack from slashing fury (obvious reason)
HP: 2d12 (bbn)+ 2d10(ftr)+ 1d8(clr) +3d10 (paragon) +2d12(deepwarden) +4d10(templar) +1d12 (defender) + (15*6) +15 improved toughness= 181 +90= 271 (+30 when defensive stance)
DR 1/-

herrhauptmann
2008-12-29, 12:14 AM
Keld,
For your dwarf urgrosh build.
You should include the steadfast boots 1,400gp from MIC.
Now don't have to waste an action readying the urgrosh against a charge. Also gives another +4 vs overrun, bullrush, trip.

Skjaldbakka
2008-12-29, 12:20 AM
I have never seen a dwarven defender that was not incredibly awesome in play. However, by the numbers, it isn't that great.

Now, I've never had anyone play one in my campaigns, but I houserule Toughness to be improved toughness, dodge to be a flat +1 dodge bonus to AC against all opponents, and endurance to include all the wierd endurance feats from the environment book (heat endurance, cold endurance, etc.).

I have played an epic dwarven defender once, and he was the party tank, and the most effective character in the group. Which was partly because the spellcasters didn't really know what they were doing, and I was specc'd not to have to move to attack. Having a custom item of whirling blade helped.