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View Full Version : [4e] Light Shields and Versatile Weapons



LibraryOgre
2008-12-07, 11:08 PM
Can you use a light shield and gain the +1 to damage from a versatile weapon?

Myatar_Panwar
2008-12-07, 11:16 PM
I don't think so... it only applies to versatile weapons when you wield them in 2 hands right?

*checks book* Well it says that you can use the light shield while still having use of your hand, but it also says that you can't use your shield hand to make attacks. So I'd say no I guess (though you could argue that you are only aiding in attacking, not actually wielding the weapon, or something along those lines)

NPCMook
2008-12-07, 11:30 PM
They answered this in the FAQ, No you can't.

Some homebrews I've seen say you can use the versatile aspect of a weapon, but your shield's AC will not help you till your next turn.

Starsinger
2008-12-07, 11:31 PM
They answered this in the FAQ, No you can't.

Some homebrews I've seen say you can use the versatile aspect of a weapon, but your shield's AC will not help you till your next turn.

Like when a Swordmage uses his longsword two handed?

NPCMook
2008-12-07, 11:36 PM
Like when a Swordmage uses his longsword two handed?

Yes, he technically loses his +3 AC till his next turn

skywalker
2008-12-08, 02:43 AM
Yes, he technically loses his +3 AC till his next turn

Actually, if he's intelligent(and he should be!), he doesn't.

Switching up how many hands you're using to wield a weapon is a free action, last I checked.

So you can have your AC bonus, grab your sword with your second hand to make an attack, and then drop your hand off to get the AC bonus back.

To the OP, does it really make sense to be able to do that? I mean, contribute to a sword swing with a shield attached to your arm?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 02:44 AM
They answered this in the FAQ, No you can't.

Some homebrews I've seen say you can use the versatile aspect of a weapon, but your shield's AC will not help you till your next turn.My sig still applies, even in 4.x.

OneFamiliarFace
2008-12-08, 03:28 AM
Even using RAW though, the light shield entry says:

PHB p.214 "However, you can't use your shield hand to make attacks."

Thus, you cannot use that hand to make an attack with an off-hand or versatile weapon.

LibraryOgre
2008-12-08, 12:31 PM
To the OP, does it really make sense to be able to do that? I mean, contribute to a sword swing with a shield attached to your arm?

Actually, yeah, it does. A two-handed hafted weapon (or a versatile hafted weapon being used two-handed), both arms provide motive force, but only one is necessary for aiming... the other largely provides a pivot point, increasing the effectiveness of the lever.

Hal
2008-12-08, 12:47 PM
I guess it's kind of a balance thing, because otherwise if you're wielding a shield then there wouldn't be any reason not to use a versatile weapon, at least from a mechanical perspective.

LibraryOgre
2008-12-08, 01:03 PM
I guess it's kind of a balance thing, because otherwise if you're wielding a shield then there wouldn't be any reason not to use a versatile weapon, at least from a mechanical perspective.

Not quite true; you'd have to wield a light shield to get the +1 to damage, and if you've got heavy shield proficiency, that's removing +1 to AC and Reflex saves.

Asbestos
2008-12-08, 02:07 PM
Not quite true; you'd have to wield a light shield to get the +1 to damage, and if you've got heavy shield proficiency, that's removing +1 to AC and Reflex saves.

Not an issue for Warlords that don't get heavy shield proficiency. I think the bard preview didn't either.

Mando Knight
2008-12-08, 03:20 PM
Wait... question! Could you theoretically loosen your shield with a minor action, two-hand your versatile weapon with a free action, attack, then use another minor action to ready your shield again?

If so, then Sword'n'Board Defenders everywhere got a whole lot more powerful...

EDIT: ...or would this fall under the "equip or stow a shield" under standard actions?

skywalker
2008-12-08, 05:12 PM
Wait... question! Could you theoretically loosen your shield with a minor action, two-hand your versatile weapon with a free action, attack, then use another minor action to ready your shield again?

If so, then Sword'n'Board Defenders everywhere got a whole lot more powerful...

EDIT: ...or would this fall under the "equip or stow a shield" under standard actions?

I'm not sure what loosening a shield is. The PHB does not specify. But "re-readying" would be a standard action, like you say: "equipping a shield."

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon with two hands) while also having a shield. Got any pics/evidence?

Mauril Everleaf
2008-12-08, 08:28 PM
You cannot, according to RAW. The advantage of a light shield over a heavy one (for those proficient in both) is that you are able to hold non-weapon things in it, such as a torch, and it also only applies a -1 (instead of a -2) to STR, CON and DEX based skills and checks. And while the FAQ is actually RAW. CustServ is not. FAQ, at least for 4e, is a rather short list of official responses. CustServ is largely best guesses.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 09:02 PM
You cannot, according to RAW. The advantage of a light shield over a heavy one (for those proficient in both) is that you are able to hold non-weapon things in it, such as a torch, and it also only applies a -1 (instead of a -2) to STR, CON and DEX based skills and checks. And while the FAQ is actually RAW. CustServ is not. FAQ, at least for 4e, is a rather short list of official responses. CustServ is largely best guesses.They made that PoS official? Wow. Yeah, that won't backfire a bit...

LibraryOgre
2008-12-08, 11:50 PM
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon with two hands) while also having a shield. Got any pics/evidence?

Thought I'd seen it, but four hours of research didn't turn up anything.

Townopolis
2008-12-09, 12:08 AM
I can contribute nothing more to the debate of whether or not it's RAW, but were I DMing the campaign, I would rule that no, you cannot use a versatile weapon 2-handed and still gain the benefit of a light shield in the same round. I believe this is RAI. If it is not, then it's my own house rule. That is all.

OneFamiliarFace
2008-12-09, 12:15 AM
I can contribute nothing more to the debate of whether or not it's RAW, but were I DMing the campaign, I would rule that no, you cannot use a versatile weapon 2-handed and still gain the benefit of a light shield in the same round. I believe this is RAI. If it is not, then it's my own house rule. That is all.

This still seems the soundest to me. It isn't allowed by RAW (as written in the PHB). And for RAI, there are still plenty of advantages to wielding a light shield over a heavy one (though not necessarily for a fighter or paladin). There is the aforementioned torch example (which, now that no one has darkvision can be very useful).

Add any example where swinging, climbing, hanging, or otherwise grabbing onto something would require you to sheathe your weapon if you were wielding a heavy shield, and the light shield doesn't seem to be missing out too much over the heavy shield.

skywalker
2008-12-09, 12:47 AM
This still seems the soundest to me. It isn't allowed by RAW (as written in the PHB). And for RAI, there are still plenty of advantages to wielding a light shield over a heavy one (though not necessarily for a fighter or paladin). There is the aforementioned torch example (which, now that no one has darkvision can be very useful).

Add any example where swinging, climbing, hanging, or otherwise grabbing onto something would require you to sheathe your weapon if you were wielding a heavy shield, and the light shield doesn't seem to be missing out too much over the heavy shield.

Drow have darkvision.

I can't really envision anybody climbing/swinging with a light shield on their arm, either. Maybe climbing, altho surely they would need their other hand? Maybe I'm just poorly envisioning a light shield? The only thing I can see you doing with that hand is something like holding a torch, or a spell component, your weapon while you drink a potion, etc.

Also, a sunrod is a much better investment than a torch. It casts bright light for 20 squares and you can tie it to a belt/something else to keep both your hands free.