View Full Version : My Horizon Tripper, need future help

2008-12-08, 09:45 AM
Again Saph, thanks.

I statted up the build and my DM oked it. I was just wondering for the future what feats should I take. Just a reminder: It is core/SRD only.

I currently have the Combat Expertise/Improved Trip/Knockdown tree, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and EWP Spiked Chain. From ranger I have Track, Endurance, and Rapid Shot.

I know that Quicken SLA is in the MM, but is it viable? at 11th level I will be taking the Shifting planar trait, and thus gain D-Door every 1d4 rounds as an SLA. I didn't see this as an option under Saphs guide so I don't know if it is even legal. I know I wouldn't be able to use it until 16th level, so that is a while from now, but any suggestions? Thanks in advance for all of the help. If you need any more info just ask.

2008-12-08, 10:05 AM
Glad you like the build! Quicken SLA is definitely viable - the only problem is you won't be able to get it until level 18, maybe 16 if you can get your DM to allow retraining. Still well worth getting if you ever reach that far.

There are very few good melee feats in core/SRD, and you already have most of them. Some other options:

Stand Still; this allows you to stop someone moving with your AoO, but in most cases you'd rather just trip them or hit them instead.
Diehard; since you already have the lame Endurance pre-requisite, you might as well get some use out of it. The main use of this feat isn't to allow you to keep fighting on negatives, but to avoid bleeding to death.
Improved Disarm; since you already have a Spiked Chain and Expertise, this is worth considering. Very useful against higher-level humanoid NPCs, who tend to rely on their gear, but basically useless against everyone else.
Cleave; probably not worth it.
Improved Initiative; ditto.

Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

- Saph

2008-12-08, 10:48 AM
I still don't know about feats, It seems strange all of the decent melee feats can be picked up by 9th level. I like stand still for large monsters, because they usually have poor reflex saves, and I can't trip them. Other than that I don't know.

2008-12-08, 11:31 AM
Quicken SLA isn't actually as useful as you might think, as DD states that you cannot take any other actions after using it in the same round. So no DD behind someone to gank them.

2008-12-08, 11:40 AM
Meh, if you've got Power Attack, Cleave tends to be worth something - especially great for clearing out mooks, but the extra attack really does come in often enough to matter. Same with Improved Initiative - you really want to be able to position yourself optimally. I'm personally a huge proponent of Quick Draw. Trip, if fail drop the Chain, draw new Chain, continue your Trips like nothing happened.

It's really potent for UMDers of course, though, but even for normal combatants, it has its uses, and since your feats have relatively low value at this point, it may just be worth getting; chain Tripping (referring to making multiple consecutive Trip-checks rather than tripping with a Chain) may be necessary when dealing with larger opponents (that is, for example, when you really, really want to bring that Huge guy down when Enlarged).

Indeed, later on your feats are of little value too, so you're forced to take feats with relatively little impact (just the opposite of how it should work). That's one of the major problems with core-games; melee characters have very little to play with.

Keld Denar
2008-12-08, 11:57 AM
It should be noted that a HW's Shifting Planar Trait functions as Dimension Door. Dimension Door explicitely ends your turn after its use. Thus, a Quickened Dim Door would only really be useful for getting out of reach of a foe after making a full attack, rather than blinking into a position to make a full attack. At the level you get it, though, you should be doing about 50 dmg per attack with a bit of PA and Haste, so you should be able to kill a lot of stuff in a single full attack, which makes the scare of being full attacked much less, especially if you have a party that helps control enemies, delivering them to you one at a time to dispose of. This makes casual escapes less imporant, although if you do fail to kill a foe you full attack, you could blink away, thus denying it a full attack on you (unless it has pounce). Thats useful, but like I said, by level 16 as a full BAB PAer, you should be able to kill most everything in the MM with the exception of a couple super high hp monsters (Tarrasque) in a single full attack, assuming decent buffage.

Another thing I wonder, and I know demons have this restrictions on their Teleports, but would a HW be able to take allies with him? Normally, Dim Door allows this, and I don't recall HW specifically denying this possibility. Thats would be incredibly useful!

I agree with Eldariel. At higher levels, especially with reach and PA, cleave is actually pretty useful. Creative use of 5' steps means you can usually get a cleave in almost every round where there is more than a single opponent standing. That extra attack will result in a net total of about 50ish additional damage, which is nothing to balk at. That comes from my play experience as a level 13-15 range spiked chain fighter. Plus, in core only, its not like you have a TON of other feat choices.

2008-12-08, 03:37 PM
I wasn't aware of the D-Door restriction, so I can pretty much nix that idea. I think quick draw will be used. Are there any ways of increasing size in core that stack with Enlarge Person? (no psionics) or of getting extra attacks?

Keld Denar
2008-12-08, 03:44 PM
I wasn't aware of the D-Door restriction, so I can pretty much nix that idea. I think quick draw will be used. Are there any ways of increasing size in core that stack with Enlarge Person? (no psionics) or of getting extra attacks?

Multiple size increases don't stack. So if you were Polymorphed into something large, then Enlarged, you wouldn't gain the size benefit. Likewise if you had Righteous Might (somehow) and were then Polymorphed. Your size wouldn't change. In core, large is the biggest you can get without Polymorph Any Object or Shapechange.

Getting extra attacks...I guess you could take TWF and attack with your Spike Chain and Armor Spikes, but that wouldn't really net you much extra damage, especially with PA, since Armor Spikes are [Light] weapons and do not gain any bonus damage from PA. Other than that, the only thing I can think of is Exotic Weapons Master's Flurry of Strikes, which is in CWarrior, and thus not Core, and Slashing Fury from PHBII, which suffers the same restriction. I'd assume grafts are right out as well...

Looks kind of like you are stuck in that regard. Sorry yo.