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starburst98
2008-12-08, 12:02 PM
this thread is to help make good uses of wish by having others break it and refine it until it is perfect. i'll start:

i wish i could live forever with eternal youth, but not be sent into another plane or put in stasis.

Moriato
2008-12-08, 12:04 PM
this thread is to help make good uses of wish by having others break it and refine it until it is perfect. i'll start:

i wish i could live forever with eternal youth, but not be sent into another plane or put in stasis.

but not so much youth that I'm actually an infant

Enlong
2008-12-08, 12:05 PM
Very well, you are now a Golem under the command of a wizard somewhere. The body cannot age, and you will live forever unless you are destroyed. So sorry about that "free will" thing, though.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 12:08 PM
There's a whole forum devoted to this, if I recall correctly. The problem with D&D wishes is the phrase "partial fulfillment". That means you can write a perfect Wish in legalese, using several hours to say it, but it can ignore any part of that it wants. The best Wishes in D&D terms are ones that abuse the "normal" abilities.

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 12:09 PM
I'm not sure being a golem qualifies as being eternally 'youthful.' Even if you ARE a golem, you will age, even if it doesn't affect you.

Enlong
2008-12-08, 12:12 PM
I'm not sure being a golem qualifies as being eternally 'youthful.' Even if you ARE a golem, you will age, even if it doesn't affect you.

Well, if you are an Elan, you still age, though it doesn't affect you. Same for Warforged, etc. If you really wanted to not age at all, that would mean stasis.

Darrin
2008-12-08, 12:47 PM
this thread is to help make good uses of wish by having others break it and refine it until it is perfect. i'll start:


The perfect wish is whatever would put the DM's "Robert Jordan/R.A. Salvatore is a HACK, *this* is how you write epic fantasy" novel he's been trying to shove down the players' throats back on track, which they've completely ruined up to this point. If you can work in that +5 Souldrinker/Holy Avenger Sword That Is Totally Not Stormbringer/Excalibur/Anduril for your character, so much the better.

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 01:00 PM
The perfect wish is whatever would put the DM's "Robert Jordan/R.A. Salvatore is a HACK, *this* is how you write epic fantasy" novel he's been trying to shove down the players' throats back on track, which they've completely ruined up to this point. If you can work in that +5 Souldrinker/Holy Avenger Sword That Is Totally Not Stormbringer/Excalibur/Anduril for your character, so much the better.

Wow. Just a little bit cynical, are we?

jguy
2008-12-08, 01:54 PM
There is a whole website dedicated to getting the perfect wish. I think it is PerfectWish.com or something

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 12:56 AM
A turkey sandwich

OneFamiliarFace
2008-12-09, 01:02 AM
A turkey sandwich

*Ding* Win.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 01:05 AM
Create a Simulacrum of a Efreeti, Solar, or anyother creature with wish as an SLA. Then wish for a +9x10150000000 Vorpal, Flaming, Flaming burst, Abberation Bane, Animal Bane, Construct Bane, Dragon Bane, Elemental Bane, Fey Bane, Giant Bane, Aquatic Humanoid Bane, Dwarf Bane, Elf Bane, Gnoll Bane, Gnome Bane, Goblinoid Bane, Halfling Bane, Human Bane, Reptilian Humanoid Bane, Orc Bane, Magical Beast Bane, Monstrous Humanoid Bane, Ooze Bane, Air Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Earth Outsider Bane, Evil Outsider Bane, Fire Outsider Bane, Good Outsider Bane. Lawful Outsider Bane, Water Outsider Bane, Plant Bane, Undead Bane, Vermin Bane, Brilliant Energy, Dancing, Defending, Frost, Shock, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Merciful, Mighty Cleaving, Spell Storing, Throwing, Distance, Thundering, Vicious, Wounding, Medium Spiked Chain of Speed

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 01:06 AM
Efreets? FTW?

Talic
2008-12-09, 01:07 AM
Well, the perfect wish is the one where you get what you want. Well, what you want is the key factor.

"I wish to be shielded from the life sapping attacks of the undead" would be a perfectly reasonable wish to have Death Ward cast on you. Reasonable in power, and execution.

"I wish that John Eric, the healer of our group, were alive again." Sensible for a wish to replicate a Raise Dead spell.

_Zoot_
2008-12-09, 01:09 AM
A turkey sandwich

make sure to say that the turkey can not be dry.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:11 AM
make sure to say that the turkey can not be dry.

You know the way i see it, the universe only try's to mess with you, if you get greedy.
If you spend 10,000 gp on a sandwich, im going to assume it will be tasty

Enlong
2008-12-09, 01:12 AM
Well, the perfect wish is the one where you get what you want. Well, what you want is the key factor.

"I wish to be shielded from the life sapping attacks of the undead" would be a perfectly reasonable wish to have Death Ward cast on you. Reasonable in power, and execution.

"I wish that John Eric, the healer of our group, were alive again." Sensible for a wish to replicate a Raise Dead spell.
True. Said spells are well within the usual power of Wish. Only a real sadistic and/or unreasonable DM would twist those.

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 01:26 AM
You know the way i see it, the universe only try's to mess with you, if you get greedy.
If you spend 10,000 gp on a sandwich, im going to assume it will be tasty

And that is why you will have a live turkey between two french rolls and be pissed. Enjoy your 10k gold lost and 5k exp drain.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 01:26 AM
True. Said spells are well within the usual power of Wish. Only a real sadistic and/or unreasonable DM would twist those.

My wish earlier in this thread was within the defined power of the wish spell, how many DMs would try to twist that?

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 01:31 AM
"I wish for total anonymity."

The "Universe" (That is, the GM) twists my wish by making everyone forget me.

Joke is on him, it's what I actually wanted.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 01:32 AM
My wish earlier in this thread was within the defined power of the wish spell, how many DMs would try to twist that?

Sorry. Clarification: i meant within the spell's parameters such as it applies to the bullet-pointed list of things Wish can do flawlessly. Death Ward is laughably easy for Wish to duplicate, as it is a 4th level spell, and ressurections are another explicit category of things Wish can do (in fact, it has the strength of Resurrection, not Raise Dead.

The wish for immortality falls outside these parameters, and in fact is the given example of a twistable wish.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:33 AM
And that is why you will have a live turkey between two french rolls and be pissed. Enjoy your 10k gold lost and 5k exp drain.

Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value (turkey sandwich) + Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower. (Create Food and Water)


You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)


Man... I have no idea what level of value is placed on deli sandwiches in your game world...

Enlong
2008-12-09, 01:34 AM
Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value (turkey sandwich) + Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower. (Create Food and Water)


You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)


Man... I have no idea what level of value is placed on deli sandwiches in your game world...
You try finding a deli in a pseudo-medieval swords-and-sorcery world.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-09, 01:34 AM
The DM shouldn't pervert a sandwich-style Wish. Even if you explicitly wanted a sandwich worth20k+, that's still within the bounds of the Wish and should be granted in it's entirety, true to both meaning and intent. That is the RAW(one of the few situations in which it applies to Wish).

Zeful
2008-12-09, 01:37 AM
Sorry. Clarification: i meant within the spell's parameters such as it applies to the bullet-pointed list of things Wish can do flawlessly. Death Ward is laughably easy for Wish to duplicate, as it is a 4th level spell, and ressurections are another explicit category of things Wish can do (in fact, it has the strength of Resurrection, not Raise Dead.

The wish for immortality falls outside these parameters, and in fact is the given example of a twistable wish.

Yes but my wish for a massively broken item was within the defined parameters of the spell. It would cost twice as much XP to make than it would normally, but creatures with a wish SLA don't pay XP for the ability it doesn't apply. Meaning any magic item can be created for free.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 01:38 AM
My DM overrules that. ANY wish can be perverted, even if it's in the bounds of the "mundane" Wish abilities.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-09, 01:39 AM
My DM overrules that. ANY wish can be perverted, even if it's in the bounds of the "mundane" Wish abilities.Houserules have no place in a RAW discussion.

Trizap
2008-12-09, 01:42 AM
"I wish to be immortal and eternally young without any harmful and/or unintended side effects"

"I wish nothing bad will ever happen to me ever again"

there.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:42 AM
You try finding a deli in a pseudo-medieval swords-and-sorcery world.

Well the deli thats thought to be the worlds oldest, Salumeria Gusti, is at least 400 years old. So it falls in the right time period for the end of the age.

I'd make a joke about if there are pseudo-medieval Jews there's going to be a pseudo-medieval deli, but im afraid my mom will find this post...

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 01:43 AM
Houserules have no place in a RAW discussion.

I know, I just felt like complaining. :smalltongue:

Enlong
2008-12-09, 01:44 AM
My DM overrules that. ANY wish can be perverted, even if it's in the bounds of the "mundane" Wish abilities.

Well, that just frankly makes the spell totally worthless. Who wants to attempt to "undo one mistake" only for the DM to say that a nearby city blew up due to temporal complications? Or to wish for some gems to pay for new armor only to have the DM make it a bunch dagger-sharp gems that materialize right above you and skewer you?



Oh, right. Sorry, Zeful, mistook you for the OP. Yeah, that one about making magic items seems just ridiculously broken, especially since they already put a cost cap on the mundane item, only to make the pie the limit for magic items, which are worth more anyway.

Singhilarity
2008-12-09, 01:44 AM
Perfect Wish?

I wish for ALL planes to be Morphic to my will.

jcsw
2008-12-09, 01:44 AM
Even "Feed the entire city with pretty good tasting ham sandwiches" shouldn't be twisted...

Zeful
2008-12-09, 01:44 AM
"I wish to be immortal and eternally young without any harmful and/or unintended side effects"

there.

You are effected by the Temporal Stasis spell. The wish could only provide the immortal effect (partial fulfillment).


"I wish nothing bad will ever happen to me ever again"
You are effected by a CL9,000 Temporal Stasis spell. Nothing bad will ever happen to you.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 01:46 AM
"I wish nothing bad will ever happen to me ever again"

Your body and soul are both annihilated. Now nothing bad can happen to you ever again. In truth, nothing can happen to you ever again.

Optimystik
2008-12-09, 01:49 AM
"I wish to be immortal and eternally young without any harmful and/or unintended side effects"

"I wish nothing bad will ever happen to me ever again"

there.

Instant and permanent stasis would satisfy both of those and would neither be harmful nor unintended... to your ENEMIES. (You never specified whose intent or definition of harm)

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:50 AM
Even "Feed the entire city with pretty good tasting ham sandwiches" shouldn't be twisted...


Ewww, don't get on the band wagon and bring pork in to this.
Corned beef maybe

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-09, 01:52 AM
Ewww, don't get on the band wagon and bring pork in to this.
Corned beef maybeFeed the entire city with BACON!

Also, corned beef is a disgrace to beef(assuming you mean the stuff in tins).

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 01:52 AM
Anyway, my point is that the perfect wish is one that is made in such a way that there is an easy (though not too obvious) way to twist it, such that you trick your DM into twisting it in that way, when that twist was what you actually wanted all along. Like the one about total anonymity.

Oh, here's another. Wish for something worth 25,000 gold. Maybe a large diamond. My DM would cause a real diamond that already exists to be transported to me. I now have a stolen diamond and if I'm caught with it, will be killed.

But instead, I plant it on an enemy.

Optimystik
2008-12-09, 01:53 AM
Perfect Wish?

I wish for ALL planes to be Morphic to my will.

Your brain instantly shuts down from processing the sheer amount of raw data that constitutes the morphology of the planes. You are reduced to a vegetative state: they continue to function as normal.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 01:53 AM
Instant and permanent stasis would satisfy both of those and would neither be harmful nor unintended... to your ENEMIES. (You never specified whose intent or definition of harm)

I just go the partial fulfillment. You can only become immortal for the first.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:55 AM
Feed the entire city with BACON!

Also, corned beef is a disgrace to beef(assuming you mean the stuff in tins).

The type I'm referring to is cured Brisket.

According to Wiki, in Europe, Corned Beef is roughly the same thing as spam?



EDIT

if your English, American Corned Beef is apparently close to "salt beef"

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:01 AM
"I wish that I was immortal and eternally young and that this wish cannot be twisted or perverted in any way possible"

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:01 AM
I wish you would not grant this wish.

Optimystik
2008-12-09, 02:01 AM
Anyway, my point is that the perfect wish is one that is made in such a way that there is an easy (though not too obvious) way to twist it, such that you trick your DM into twisting it in that way, when that twist was what you actually wanted all along. Like the one about total anonymity.

Such a situation is less about the inherent perfection of your wish, and more about the gullibility of your DM.

I mean, what you're saying is the equivalent of Xykon's plan in this strip. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html)


Oh, here's another. Wish for something worth 25,000 gold. Maybe a large diamond. My DM would cause a real diamond that already exists to be transported to me. I now have a stolen diamond and if I'm caught with it, will be killed.

But instead, I plant it on an enemy.

Your DM isn't nearly imaginative enough if he lets a simple trick like that work.
For example:

(a) The diamond's original owner sees it flying through a portal into your hand at the time the wish is made, getting a detailed look at your appearance and location;
(b) The enemy uses the planted diamond to hire an assassin's guild to do you in;
(c) The enemy plants it back on you;

etc. Those were just off the top of my head.

Waspinator
2008-12-09, 02:02 AM
A turkey sandwich

Congratulations, you're polymorphed into a turkey sandwich.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:02 AM
"I wish that I was immortal and eternally young and that this wish cannot be twisted or perverted in any way possible"

The wish cannot be completed as specified, you are affected by the spell Temporal Stasis. You are immortal. Have a nice day!:smallbiggrin:

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:04 AM
"I wish that I was immortal and eternally young and that this wish cannot be twisted or perverted in any way possible"

Partial fulfillment. You're immortal but not eternally young. It also didn't fulfill the second clause. Game mechanically though, who cares if you're young or not? Well, if you're a caster, anyway.

In real life though, if I wanted to "twist" this one, I would just grant it. Oh sure, it'd be great for a while, but then everyone you loved would grow old and die. You'd meet new people, yes, and then they would grow old and die. Ad nauseam.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:04 AM
"I wish to abolish the Wish spell's 'partial fulfillment' option."

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:04 AM
The wish cannot be completed as specified, you are affected by the spell Temporal Stasis. You are immortal. Have a nice day!:smallbiggrin:

thats a twist, doesn't work

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:05 AM
Partial fulfillment. You're immortal but not eternally young. It also didn't fulfill the second clause. Game mechanically though, who cares if you're young or not? Well, if you're a caster, anyway.

In real life though, if I wanted to "twist" this one, I would just grant it. Oh sure, it'd be great for a while, but then everyone you loved would grow old and die. You'd meet new people, yes, and then they would grow old and die. Ad nauseam.

so? how does that effect me?

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:06 AM
thats a twist, doesn't work

No, it's a partial fulfillment, one of two possible DM answers to an overly powerful wish. Twisting it is the other option.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:06 AM
"I wish to abolish the Wish spell's 'partial fulfillment' option."Partial fulfillment: Wish's partial fulfillment option is abolished for wishes made by Joe the Farmer.

Of course, if you have a lot of wishes to spare, this may eventually work out...

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:06 AM
Partial fulfillment. You're immortal but not eternally young. It also didn't fulfill the second clause. Game mechanically though, who cares if you're young or not? Well, if you're a caster, anyway.




that and its impossible for partial fulfillment, its and not or doesn't bend that way.

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:07 AM
No, it's a partial fulfillment, one of two possible DM answers to an overly powerful wish. Twisting it is the other option.

no partial fulfillments are impossible as there and in it, they have to grant
it cause of the and

Singhilarity
2008-12-09, 02:08 AM
Your brain instantly shuts down from processing the sheer amount of raw data that constitutes the morphology of the planes. You are reduced to a vegetative state: they continue to function as normal.

Naturally.
However my WILL - existent beyond the confines of my body, continues to function. (As many discarnate entities still seem fully capable of acting)

As swiftly as the event occurs, the planes begin to shift, and a new, far more capable body gets formed for myself.

(I know, I know it goes beyond the scope of Wish as written... also - I'm all for the heartfelt wishes "Revive the Dead Healer" as someone else pointed out... but y'gotta foster just a little bit of Megalomania, y'know?)

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:08 AM
Such a situation is less about the inherent perfection of your wish, and more about the gullibility of your DM.

Indeed, because no Wish is perfect, I think.


Your DM isn't nearly imaginative enough if he lets a simple trick like that work.
For example:

(a) The diamond's original owner sees it flying through a portal into your hand at the time the wish is made, getting a detailed look at your appearance and location;
(b) The enemy uses the planted diamond to hire an assassin's guild to do you in;
(c) The enemy plants it back on you;

etc. Those were just off the top of my head.

Admittedly, it would only work the first time because he wouldn't be expecting it. (That is, he'd be assuming I wanted the money.) I'd have to guard against case (b) and (c) up there, but of course, in case (b) then the diamond is still not in my possession, and could possibly be traced back to the enemy. (If I take care it can't be traced back to me, of course.) And what if the assassin's guild recognizes it as a stolen diamond and refuses to take it because of that?

I think he would let it slide once for the creativity, though.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:09 AM
no partial fulfillments are impossible as there and in it, they have to grant
it cause of the and
Thing is? The wish doesn't have to be impossible for Partial Fulfillment to take place. The DM can use it on ANY wish that is stronger then the listed uses.
Besides, the and makes it technically 2 wishes.



Partial fulfillment: Wish's partial fulfillment option is abolished for wishes made by Joe the Farmer.

Of course, if you have a lot of wishes to spare, this may eventually work out...

My next action is to, in a completely mundane fashion, and without use of Wish, walk to the relevant authorities in my hometown, and have my name legally changed to "Joe the Farmer".

What now.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:11 AM
so? how does that effect me?

You're asking how witnessing the deaths of everyone you love affects you?


that and its impossible for partial fulfillment, its and not or doesn't bend that way.

Sorry, if you wish for a and b, only getting a is partial. At least by common English semantics.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:12 AM
thats a twist, doesn't work

Yes it does. Due to the Partial fulfillment clause of the spell, you could give an 800 page legalese document, and I could stop reading after the first sentence.

Wish can't provide immortality, it says so in the spell. The spell has two options in this case, twist, or partial fulfillment. Any attempt to word your way out of a twist falls you into partial fulfillment.

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:12 AM
"I wish that none of my wishes can be twisted, perverted or partially fulfilled in any way possible or imaginable"

beat. that.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:12 AM
My next action is to, in a completely mundane fashion, and without use of Wish, walk to the relevant authorities in my hometown, and have my name legally changed to "Joe the Farmer".

What now.The granted wish was referring to a particular individual named Joe the Farmer, not "people named Joe the Farmer." Of course, you could go find the right Joe, which, if you're casting Wish, probably isn't too hard. And, of course, by that point, the DM would have much more to worry about than a little Wish abuse.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:14 AM
"I wish that none of my wishes can be twisted, perverted or partially fulfilled in any way possible or imaginable"

beat. that.Well, since this wish hasn't been granted yet, it can be twisted and partially fulfilled. I'll just leave it at that.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:14 AM
"I wish that none of my wishes can be twisted, perverted or partially fulfilled in any way possible or imaginable"

beat. that.

Partial fulfillment! I read the wish as this:
"I wish that none of my wishes can be fulfilled"

and grant it.


The granted wish was referring to a particular individual named Joe the Farmer, not "people named Joe the Farmer." Of course, you could go find the right Joe, which, if you're casting Wish, probably isn't too hard. And, of course, by that point, the DM would have much more to worry about than a little Wish abuse.
OK. then I locate this Joe the Farmer and either ask him to wish for me (tricky and dangerous, especially if he learns that his wishes are infalliable), Dominate him into making my wishes, or use Magic Jar to swap bodies with him.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:14 AM
"I wish this wish would not be twisted."

Does nothing, at ALL. :smallbiggrin:

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:17 AM
Congratulations, you're polymorphed into a turkey sandwich.

Sorry, i thought this was a RAW thread

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:18 AM
Sorry, i thought this was a RAW thread

A raw turkey sandwich!

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:18 AM
Sorry, i thought this was a RAW thread

You're turned into an uncooked turkey?

Edit: Ninja'd with the same joke. Drat. :smallfrown:

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:19 AM
what? you mean that they can intentionally ignore words? now that makes it completely unfair, gives no way for us trying to find the perfect wish a way to win, just completely unfair and unwinnable.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:21 AM
"I wish that none of my wishes can be twisted."

Granted, none of you wishes can be twisted.


what? you mean that they can intentionally ignore words? now that makes it completely unfair, gives no way for us trying to find the perfect wish a way to win, just completely unfair and unwinnable.

That's kind of the point. Wishes beyond the scope of the spell are pretty much asking for trouble. The benefit will be quickly outstripped by the penalty.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:21 AM
what? you mean that they can intentionally ignore words? now that makes it completely unfair, gives no way for us trying to find the perfect wish a way to win, just completely unfair and unwinnable.

To be honest, I have no clue how the Partial Fulfillment clause really works. I'm just waiting for someone with a better answer.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:21 AM
A raw turkey sandwich!

LOL

O.k. that was just funny

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:25 AM
To be honest, I have no clue how the Partial Fulfillment clause really works. I'm just waiting for someone with a better answer.

Wish is like electricity, it tries to find the path of least resistance. Partial fulfillment tries to provide the simplest answer within it's limits. Asking for immortality places you under imprisonment (you don't age), temporal stasis (you don't age), because that's the easiest thing the spell can do.

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:25 AM
To be honest, I have no clue how the Partial Fulfillment clause really works. I'm just waiting for someone with a better answer.

so WOTC made it so that Wishes cannot be perfect if they are too powerful?
then what is the frikkin point of wish? all it truly be useful for would to replicate any spell you want and that really cuts out most of the fun of it.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:26 AM
so WOTC made it so that Wishes cannot be perfect if they are too powerful?
then what is the frikkin point of wish? all it truly be useful for would to replicate any spell you want and that really cuts out most of the fun of it.

I always felt that the point of wish was a moral lesson about not being too greedy.

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:27 AM
Wish is like electricity, it tries to find the path of least resistance. Partial fulfillment tries to provide the simplest answer within it's limits. Asking for immortality places you under imprisonment (you don't age), temporal stasis (you don't age), because that's the easiest thing the spell can do.

..........................

that is just completely stupid, that................just completely stupid........and not fun at all.............

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:27 AM
I always felt that the point of wish was a moral lesson about not being too greedy.

Like wishing for a yummy sandwich?

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:28 AM
Like wishing for a yummy sandwich?

Clearly, you're indulging in gluttony. :smalltongue:

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:28 AM
I always felt that the point of wish was a moral lesson about not being too greedy.

so? I want it to be fun not to be a moral, if I wanted the wish to be a moral I would have wished it.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:28 AM
I always felt that the point of wish was a moral lesson about not being too greedy.

Or a lesson in DON'T TAKE WISHES FROM EFREETI, SERIOUSLY MAN. THEY'RE EVIL. THEY WILL CUT YOU.

edit:
The idea is that Wish has defined but powerful applications, and that the DM is well within his rights to blow your wish out of the water if you try something too powerful. Though the Partial Fulfillment clause does leave a rather bad taste in my mouth.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:29 AM
..........................

that is just completely stupid, that................just completely stupid........and not fun at all.............

Mythology around the world says that wishes always have a consequence. Often times a horrible one. You are trifling with powers well beyond the mortal ken. They wish to trifle back.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:29 AM
To be honest, I have no clue how the Partial Fulfillment clause really works. I'm just waiting for someone with a better answer.Pretty much any personal wish can be screwed over by the partial fulfillment in a number of repeatable ways. For example, the DM can make whatever the wisher wants happen after the wisher is permanently removed from the multiverse (whenever that happens). Not creative, but if the DM feels like basking in his pretend power before returning to his parents' basement, it'll do.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:29 AM
Clearly, you're indulging in gluttony. :smalltongue:

So?

You said its a lesson not to be greedy. Gluttony is a whole different sin

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:30 AM
so? I want it to be fun not to be a moral, if I wanted the wish to be a moral I would have wished it.

Well sure you want it to be fun, but remember that other people find different things fun. Some people like roleplaying characters whose shortcomings, flaws, and downright bad luck get the best of them in the end.


Or a lesson in DON'T TAKE WISHES FROM EFREETI, SERIOUSLY MAN. THEY'RE EVIL. THEY WILL CUT YOU.

Oooh yeah, that's a good one too.


So?

You said its a lesson not to be greedy. Gluttony is a whole different sin

Hmm, an excellent point. Perhaps it's a lesson to not solve all your problems with magic?

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 02:31 AM
"I wish this wish would not be twisted."

Does nothing, at ALL. :smallbiggrin:

Pfft, you just destroyed the universe. You jerk.

Read as: "I wish this wish would not be."
Goes back in time to destroy you prior to you making the wish.
Paradox ensues.
Universe hits "reset"


Oh and Sandwiches are blackmarket items in my world...ya, thats why it is 25,000 gold and 1 copper. Yes....

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:32 AM
Pfft, you just destroyed the universe. You jerk.

Read as: "I wish this wish would not be."
Goes back in time to destroy you prior to you making the wish.
Paradox ensues.
Universe hits "reset"


Oh and Sandwiches are blackmarket items in my world...ya, thats why it is 25,000 gold and 1 copper. Yes....

"I wish to be accompanied by the Great Will of the Macrocosm."

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:32 AM
Pfft, you just destroyed the universe. You jerk.

Read as: "I wish this wish would not be."
Goes back in time to destroy you prior to you making the wish.
Paradox ensues.
Universe hits "reset"But what if you wanted it all to reset?

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:33 AM
Pfft, you just destroyed the universe. You jerk.

Read as: "I wish this wish would not be."
Goes back in time to destroy you prior to you making the wish.
Paradox ensues.
Universe hits "reset"


Oh and Sandwiches are blackmarket items in my world...ya, thats why it is 25,000 gold and 1 copper. Yes....

Dang, I lose more universes that way...

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:33 AM
Hmm, an excellent point. Perhaps it's a lesson to not solve all your problems with magic?

Why not?

I have solved my desire for a sandwich by paying 10k gold for it.
Is over tipping a sin?

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:33 AM
But what if you wanted it all to reset?

Then you've officially outsmarted the universe. Have a cookie.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:37 AM
Why not?

I have solved my desire for a sandwich by paying 10k gold for it.
Is over tipping a sin?

I'd say it depends on the religion. What I meant was, if you're granted such vast arcane power, you should probably use it wisely and not for trivial things, even if you do over pay. Of course, there are exceptions. If you were starving in the desert and all you had amounted to a prepared Wish spell and the material components for it, it's probably acceptable. But if you're paying 10k gold for not wanting to go down to the deli for some meat, then maybe you're abusing your power. Dunno, just a though, modifiable by the setting and campaign you're in. Probably somewhat of a personal preference, too.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:37 AM
Here's one:
"I wish."

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 02:39 AM
But what if you wanted it all to reset?

Then see the "ya jerk" comment ;)

Either that, or you have a fantastic story I want to hear on why it is for the good of the universe.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:39 AM
Then see the "ya jerk" comment ;)

Either that, or you have a fantastic story I want to hear on why it is for the good of the universe.

There was a memory leak and restarting it clears the RAM?

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:40 AM
Well sure you want it to be fun, but remember that other people find different things fun. Some people like roleplaying characters whose shortcomings, flaws, and downright bad luck get the best of them in the end.



Oooh yeah, that's a good one too.

what kind of characters are those? I don't see the point in tragedies, I see the effect they're supposed to produce, but I don't see the point of tragedy or tragic characters, I roleplay characters who have flaws and shortcomings and prevails in spite of them, or maybe because of them, as those actually are meaningful to me, tragic character? pointless, a pure hero? pointless and empty,
a flawed character that succeeds in spite of it all? that I can get behind, its because they're flawed that makes them interesting and that they can still get by even though they faults they don't let that beat them, a character that succumbs to their faults and dies because of it? sorry already know the age-old lesson of not letting your flaws overcome you, done not interested.

Zeful
2008-12-09, 02:41 AM
Here's one:
"I wish."
Your wish cannot be completed as stated, please specify the effect you wish to happen. If you were rendered voiceless during the casting of this spell, blink once now.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 02:41 AM
I'd say it depends on the religion. What I meant was, if you're granted such vast arcane power, you should probably use it wisely and not for trivial things, even if you do over pay. Of course, there are exceptions. If you were starving in the desert and all you had amounted to a prepared Wish spell and the material components for it, it's probably acceptable. But if you're paying 10k gold for not wanting to go down to the deli for some meat, then maybe you're abusing your power. Dunno, just a though, modifiable by the setting and campaign you're in. Probably somewhat of a personal preference, too.

But...But...But...

Like, the vast majority of your posts are about big wishes that are used to screw the wisher royally...
You would prefer that i wish for a diamond that makes me a wanted fugitive, than to wish for something that makes my tummy happy?

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:41 AM
@ Trizap: So... no Shakespeare then?


Your wish cannot be completed as stated, please specify the effect you wish to happen. If you were rendered voiceless during the casting of this spell, blink once now.

*winks thrice*

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:42 AM
what kind of characters are those?

Masochists. Well more accurately, their players are.


But...But...But...

Like, the vast majority of your posts are about big wishes that are used to screw the wisher royally...
You would prefer that i wish for a diamond that makes me a wanted fugitive, than to wish for something that makes my tummy happy?

Well see, I have two kinds of posts here. Those that are trying to screw the wisher, and those that are trying to get around that.

Maybe I have three. The third one being a reflective analysis of the reason for the Wish spell existing, not quite as a means to an end, but as an enigmatic sort of plot device - the power of the Wish is tempting, but should it be used?

I mean, I personally as a DM wouldn't pervert a wish for a sandwich. But on a theoretical level, I would analyze why wishing for a sandwich might get perverted.

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 02:42 AM
Here's one:
"I wish."

Hmm. Partial fulfillment. All that exists is you. No air/whatever. Yay?


There was a memory leak and restarting it clears the RAM?

Couldn't you just patch the server plane of existance?

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-12-09, 02:42 AM
I wish I was a real boy...

Trizap
2008-12-09, 02:45 AM
@ Trizap: So... no Shakespeare then?



yea, pretty much.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:47 AM
Couldn't you just patch the server plane of existance?

The Universe, with SP2 installed! Now less memory leaks, and better UI.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-09, 02:50 AM
The Universe, with SP2 installed! Now less memory leaks, and better UI.And 10% more BSoD, of course.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:51 AM
And 10% more BSoD, of course.

Well, we're working on fixing that for SP3.

turkishproverb
2008-12-09, 02:51 AM
Easiest way to drive a wish giver insane?

"I wish you would not grant this wish"

Enlong
2008-12-09, 02:54 AM
Easiest way to drive a wish giver insane?

"I wish you would not grant this wish"

"Okay."

...
"What?"

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 02:55 AM
Easiest way to drive a wish giver insane?

"I wish you would not grant this wish"

The wish is simultaneously granted and not granted, existing in both states until the wish is observed. And we don't know how to observe wishes.

Deepblue706
2008-12-09, 02:59 AM
What about "I wish for eternal happiness"?

I mean, no matter what; you'll be satisfied.

Enlong
2008-12-09, 03:02 AM
What about "I wish for eternal happiness"?

I mean, no matter what; you'll be satisfied.

True but will you, as a player, be happy when your character is trapped in a coma, his mind in an unending illusion of happiness?

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 03:03 AM
What about "I wish for eternal happiness"?

I mean, no matter what; you'll be satisfied.

Joe the Farmer is eternally happy. Man it is OP to be that guy.

Kaun
2008-12-09, 03:03 AM
"I wish that I was immortal and eternally young and that this wish cannot be twisted or perverted in any way possible"

Granted. congradulations you shall never know death and are forever young.

As apart of this alteration the magic of the wish has altered your life force and deadbolted your soul to your brain,you dont need to eat drink or sleep and healing magic no longer affects you but who cares you cant die.

As time goes on you would begin to realise that discarded parts of your body nolonger retain the imortal affects, things like strands of hair or skin flakes or finger nails ect. Maybe eventualy after a battle that didnt go to plan an arm. Hell if your body still needed it you would have been able to locate a healer intime that was able to reattach the arm in a way that everything was connected together so that it would still function, with out the aid of healing magic of corse.

I guess as time goes on you would end up loosing other bits and peices, i mean life happens and you have more of it then most so eventualy no mater how hard you plan something is gona go wrong.

I mean if you make a few nasty enemys sooner or later you gona end up as a talking head. Meh maybe thats for you maybe it aint, maybe one day sombody just bush whacks you and you end up as a chunk of self awear brain reminants splatered across the dusty pathways of some city forever, kept alive by the magic of your wish but unless your are a telepath completely unable to comunicate with the rest of the multiverse.

As far as i see it you got what you wanted, it wasnt perverted for you cos unless your playing a race with the ability to regenerate lost limbs you probably should have tacked on something to cover that.

Just a thought on how i would probably handle it

Deepblue706
2008-12-09, 03:05 AM
True but will you, as a player, be happy when your character is trapped in a coma, his mind in an unending illusion of happiness?

Why not? I mean, I can still roleplay what happens in his head. It could be some crazy dream sequence, which lasts forever and is eternally awesome. Maybe it would be something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNVYWJOEy9A).

Also, I hadn't realized this was actually a game of sorts. I think it should probably be in SMBG, fyi.

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 03:09 AM
Why not? I mean, I can still roleplay what happens in his head. It could be some crazy dream sequence, which lasts forever and is eternally awesome. Maybe it would be something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNVYWJOEy9A).

Also, I hadn't realized this was actually a game of sorts. I think it should probably be in SMBG, fyi.

Because the dm, if he is any good, ISN'T going to throw the rest of the party to the wind for one player? He would tell you to reroll.

Deepblue706
2008-12-09, 03:13 AM
Because the dm, if he is any good, ISN'T going to throw the rest of the party to the wind for one player? He would tell you to reroll.

Or maybe it's PbP and we can play a solo game simultaneously.

Or maybe people can teleport INTO my dreams.

etc.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-09, 01:33 PM
Also, I hadn't realized this was actually a game of sorts. I think it should probably be in SMBG, fyi.

Well it wasn't supposed to be, but all Wish threads degrade into this.

AmberVael
2008-12-09, 02:12 PM
You know Trizap, it's one thing to succeed, and another thing to not be challenged.
Having wish duplicate spell effects and do everything else listed (or powers comparable to what is listed as acceptable?) That's fine. It's all well and good to be able to succeed at that- you have a huge power in your hands with this spell, after all.
But being able to say "oh yeah, I want to be invincible and immortal and have a kingdom and..." and just get whatever you want with it takes all the challenge, effort, and fun out of everything.
Go find a video game you like. Put cheats code in- god mode, everything that powers you up. See how long you can play it before getting bored.

That's why wish has limitations, and why making wishes even more powerful than the bounds of the spell are twisted and unfulfilled.

Anteros
2008-12-09, 02:43 PM
..........................

that is just completely stupid, that................just completely stupid........and not fun at all.............

Yes, it's truly terrible that the game doesn't allow you to break its rules whenever you want. What an unfair burden to put upon the player!

ericgrau
2008-12-09, 05:58 PM
"I wish to abolish the Wish spell's 'partial fulfillment' option."

Wish partially fulfilled. You abolish the wish spell for yourself.


Easiest way to drive a wish giver insane?

"I wish you would not grant this wish"

Okay I won't, no need to blow a wish on it. And you still have 1 more wish, that one didn't count.