View Full Version : 2H vs. dual-wielding

slurpz

2008-12-08, 01:46 PM

Let's say you have a 3.5 large barbarian/fighter high strength who has powerful build. That feat allows the character to use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

In this case, would it be better for him/her to use a single huge greathammer? Or dual wielding two large greathammers deal more damage?

Would this change if the character were a different size (like medium/large, gargantuan/huge, etc.)?

This is all theoretical, with no basing in any roleplay.

kamikasei

2008-12-08, 01:51 PM

It is pretty much always better to go two-handed rather than dual wielding, for the kind of classes you're talking about, regardless of size. This is because you can use Power Attack for a 2-to-1 return on damage, and then pump that up with various tricks to get ridiculous bonuses overshadowing the weapon's base damage entirely.

Dual wielding is best used when you have a source of bonus damage that applies with each hit, such as sneak attack.

Starbuck_II

2008-12-08, 01:55 PM

Let's say you have a 3.5 large barbarian/fighter high strength who has powerful build. That feat allows the character to use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

In this case, would it be better for him/her to use a single huge greathammer? Or dual wielding two large greathammers deal more damage?

Would this change if the character were a different size (like medium/large, gargantuan/huge, etc.)?

This is all theoretical, with no basing in any roleplay.

Never heard of a Large creature with powerful build, but okay sure.

What does a Meduim Greathammer are 1 handed weapons dealing? What, 2d6?

Assuming that:

2x 3d6 (Average 10.5) at -2 penalty or 1x 4d8 (average 18.0)

Most Large creatures have poor dex so Twfing is hard to obain.

If hypothetically, it were possible to have a Large creature with powerful Buiold and good Dex: Twfing might be decent (better get Sneak attack or energy damage to boost damage average though).

In general, Two handed wins due to power attack.

If Great hammers are 2 handed then you can't ever Twfing them. Because they require 2 hands.

Matthew

2008-12-08, 01:57 PM

I am not sure, but isn't the great hammer a two handed weapon? The 3.5 version of powerful build and/or monkey grip still does not permit a character to use a two handed weapon in one hand. In order to use a large goliath great hammer in one hand, the character would have to be huge, regardless of his ability to use huge category weapons without penalty. So, given that we are talking about the goliath great hammer here and not something else I haven't heard of, your first premise will not work.

As to the rest, kamikasei is pretty much correct. There are ways that fighting with two weapons can perform reasonably well at high levels, but they depend on a bunch of other factors.

slurpz

2008-12-08, 02:12 PM

Oh, I figured that powerful build would let you treat it as small enough to wield with one hand. Greathammer's base damage is 1d12, goes to 2d8, 3d6, 4d6, etc.

Suppose if you had TWF'ing and high enchantments to weapons. (Isn't there a feat that lets you use your offhand at your full strength bonus too?)

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-08, 02:21 PM

(Isn't there a feat that lets you use your offhand at your full strength bonus too?)

That's irrelevant. Melee characters deal damage with Power Attack (2:1 ratio with two-handed weapons), and you do that better the fewer penalties you have to your attacks. Indeed, a melee character wants to maximize attack bonus to maximize the effectiveness of Power Attack.

Matthew

2008-12-08, 02:47 PM

Oh, I figured that powerful build would let you treat it as small enough to wield with one hand. Greathammer's base damage is 1d12, goes to 2d8, 3d6, 4d6, etc.

Suppose if you had TWF'ing and high enchantments to weapons. (Isn't there a feat that lets you use your offhand at your full strength bonus too?)

Afraid not. If you were playing 3.0, a character could take monkey grip and fight with two mecurial full blades, but 3.5 put a stop to all that, and the two weapon fighting tree in 3.0 was staggered differently in any case. Not sure about a feat for the off hand strength bonus, maybe, probably in Tome of Battle.

The problems with two weapon fighting are:

1) Full Attack (one level in Lion Totem Barbarian, or something similar will solve that)

2) Gold Cost (it's just cheaper to enchant one weapon)

3) Feat Cost (effectively fighting with two weapons requires numerous feats)

In most scenarios past level five, a two handed weapon is the beter choice; below level five you're probably better off with a shield. Where two weapon fighting pays off is when facing large numbers of relatively low hit point enemies, on a narrow band of hit versus damage ratio, or when you have enough bonus damage to make it worth your while; the typical example of the latter case is the Rogue's backstab (I mean sneak attack) ability.

I think there are some Tome of Battle builds that also make it worthwhile.

Blood_Lord

2008-12-08, 03:04 PM

There is no 3.5 feat anywhere that gives full Str bonus with off hand.

So Str damage is always going to be equal between THFing and TWFing.

So basically, it comes down to 3-4 feats and -2 to all attacks, versus (using swords not hammers and assuming medium size, but convert it if you want) 2d6 base damage versus 2d8.

Personally, factoring in power attacking for 2, I'll take the THFing every time.

Keld Denar

2008-12-08, 03:23 PM

There is no 3.5 feat anywhere that gives full Str bonus with off hand.

No feat, but 3 levels of Bloodclaw Master grants it. Its a PrC from Tome of Battle. I'm like, 97.65% sure that it only applies when wielding Tiger Claw weapons, though, which would be short swords, daggers, kukiris, unarmed strikes, or claws, none of which are anywhere similar to greathammers.

The big difference between TWF and THF comes when you can't make a full attack in a round. This happens any time you have to move, draw a weapon (w/o Quickdraw), stand up from prone, or charge (w/o Pounce). In those cases, you only get 1 attack, and can't use TWFing unless you have Double Hit. You can and should be using Power Attack (2handed) in those situations, since you don't have to worry about iterative attacks missing.

Thats where there is a huge difference. Otherwise, at low levels, damage is relatively similar, although this changes by about level 6-8ish in favor of THF.

THF is also MUCH less feat intensive, which, unless you have lots of fighter levels, is going to be taxing on your character, since you need the 3 TWF feats, Oversized TWF, and maybe Double Hit. THF only really needs PA, the rest is gravy.

slurpz

2008-12-08, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the replies.

How do crits and crit ranges factor into this balance between THF and TWF?

Matthew

2008-12-08, 04:08 PM

Thanks for the replies.

How do crits and crit ranges factor into this balance between THF and TWF?

Over an average distribution they would have a relatively even impact; the maths depends on the armour class ranges being considered and to hit bonuses. The basic math is this:

+0 Damage Bonus

[Normal Number of Hits x Average Damage] + [Unconfirmed Critical Hits x Average Damage] + [Confirmed Critical Hits x (Average Damage x Multiplier)

1.

1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5

1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717

1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717

1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

2.

1D10 20/x4 [(360 x 5.5 = 1,980) + (1 x 5.5 = 5.5) + (19 x 22 = 418)] = 2,403.5

1D12 20/x3 [(360 x 6.5 = 2,340) + (1 x 6.5 = 6.5) + (19 x 19.5 = 370.5)] = 2,717

1D12 19-20/x2 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (38 x 13 = 494)] = 2,717

1D10 18-20/x2 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (57 x 11 = 627)] = 2,403.5

3.

1D10 20/x4 [(340 x 5.5 = 1,870) + (2 x 5.5 = 11) + (18 x 22 = 396)] = 2,277

1D12 20/x3 [(340 x 6.5 = 2,210) + (2 x 6.5 = 13) + (18 x 19.5 = 351)] = 2,574

1D12 19-20/x2 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (36 x 13 = 468)] = 2,574

1D10 18-20/x2 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (54 x 11 = 594)] = 2,277

4.

1D10 20/x4 [(320 x 5.5 = 1,760) + (3 x 5.5 = 16.5) + (17 x 22 = 374)] = 2,150.5

1D12 20/x3 [(320 x 6.5 = 2,080) + (3 x 6.5 = 19.5) + (17 x 19.5 = 331.5)] = 2,431

1D12 19-20/x2 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (34 x 13 = 442)] = 2,431

1D10 18-20/x2 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (51 x 11 = 561)] = 2,150.5

5.

1D10 20/x4 [(300 x 5.5 = 1,650) + (4 x 5.5 = 22) + (16 x 22 = 352)] = 2,024

1D12 20/x3 [(300 x 6.5 = 1,950) + (4 x 6.5 = 26) + (16 x 19.5 = 312)] = 2,288

1D12 19-20/x2 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (32 x 13 = 416)] = 2,288

1D10 18-20/x2 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (48 x 11 = 528)] = 2,024

6.

1D10 20/x4 [(280 x 5.5 = 1,540) + (5 x 5.5 = 27.5) + (15 x 22 = 330)] = 1,897.5

1D12 20/x3 [(280 x 6.5 = 1,820) + (5 x 6.5 = 32.5) + (15 x 19.5 = 292.5)] = 2,145

1D12 19-20/x2 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (30 x 13 = 390)] = 2,145

1D10 18-20/x2 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (45 x 11 = 495)] = 1,897.5

7.

1D10 20/x4 [(260 x 5.5 = 1,430) + (6 x 5.5 = 33) + (14 x 22 = 308)] = 1,771

1D12 20/x3 [(260 x 6.5 = 1,690) + (6 x 6.5 = 39) + (14 x 19.5 = 273)] = 2,002

1D12 19-20/x2 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (28 x 13 = 364)] = 2,002

1D10 18-20/x2 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (42 x 11 = 462)] = 1,771

8.

1D10 20/x4 [(240 x 5.5 = 1,320) + (7 x 5.5 = 38.5) + (13 x 22 = 286)] = 1644.5

1D12 20/x3 [(240 x 6.5 = 1,560) + (7 x 6.5 = 45.5) + (13 x 19.5 = 253.5)] = 1,859

1D12 19-20/x2 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (26 x 13 = 338)] = 1,859

1D10 18-20/x2 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (21 x 5.5 = 115.5) + (39 x 11 = 429)] = 1,644.5

9.

1D10 20/x4 [(220 x 5.5 = 1,210) + (8 x 5.5 = 44) + (12 x 22 = 264)] = 1,518

1D12 20/x3 [(220 x 6.5 = 1,430) + (8 x 6.5 = 52) + (12 x 19.5 = 234)] = 1,716

1D12 19-20/x2 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (24 x 13 = 312)] = 1,716

1D10 18-20/x2 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (24 x 5.5 = 132) + (36 x 11 = 396)] = 1,518

10.

1D10 20/x4 [(200 x 5.5 = 1,100) + (9 x 5.5 = 49.5) + (11 x 22 = 242)] = 1,391.5

1D12 20/x3 [(200 x 6.5 = 1,300) + (9 x 6.5 = 58.5) + (11 x 19.5 = 214.5)] = 1,573

1D12 19-20/x2 [(180 x 6.5 = 1,170) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (22 x 13 = 286)] = 1,573

1D10 18-20/x2 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (27 x 5.5 = 148.5) + (33 x 11 = 363)] = 1,391.5

11.

1D10 20/x4 [(180 x 5.5 = 990) + (10 x 5.5 = 55) + (10 x 22 = 220)] = 1,265

1D12 20/x3 [(180 x 6.5 = 1170) + (10 x 6.5 = 65) + (10 x 19.5 = 195)] = 1,430

1D12 19-20/x2 [(160 x 6.5 = 1040) + (20 x 6.5 = 130) + (20 x 13 = 260)] = 1,430

1D10 18-20/x2 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (30 x 5.5 = 165) + (30 x 11 = 330)] = 1,265

12.

1D10 20/x4 [(160 x 5.5 = 880) + (11 x 5.5 = 60.5) + (9 x 22 = 198)] = 1,138.5

1D12 20/x3 [(160 x 6.5 = 1,040) + (11 x 6.5 = 71.5) + (9 x 19.5 = 175.5)] = 1,287

1D12 19-20/x2 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (22 x 6.5 = 143) + (18 x 13 = 234)] = 1,287

1D10 18-20/x2 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (33 x 5.5 = 181.5) + (27 x 11 = 297)] = 1138.5

13.

1D10 20/x4 [(140 x 5.5 = 770) + (12 x 5.5 = 66) + (8 x 22 = 176)] = 1,012

1D12 20/x3 [(140 x 6.5 = 910) + (12 x 6.5 = 78) + (8 x 19.5 = 156)] = 1,144

1D12 19-20/x2 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (24 x 6.5 = 156) + (16 x 13 = 208)] = 1,144

1D10 18-20/x2 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (24 x 11 = 264)] = 1,012

14.

1D10 20/x4 [(120 x 5.5 = 660) + (13 x 5.5 = 71.5) + (7 x 22 = 154)] = 885.5

1D12 20/x3 [(120 x 6.5 = 780) + (13 x 6.5 = 84.5) + (7 x 19.5 = 136.5)] = 1,001

1D12 19-20/x2 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (26 x 6.5 = 169) + (14 x 13 = 182)] = 1,001

1D10 18-20/x2 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (39 x 5.5 = 214.5) + (21 x 11 = 231)] = 885.5

15.

1D10 20/x4 [(100 x 5.5 = 550) + (14 x 5.5 = 77) + (6 x 22 = 132)] = 759

1D12 20/x3 [(100 x 6.5 = 650) + (14 x 6.5 = 91) + (6 x 19.5 = 117)] = 858

1D12 19-20/x2 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (28 x 6.5 = 182) + (12 x 13 = 156)] = 858

1D10 18-20/x2 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (42 x 5.5 = 231) + (18 x 11 = 198)] = 759

16.

1D10 20/x4 [(80 x 5.5 = 440) + (15 x 5.5 = 82.5) + (5 x 22 = 110)] = 632.5

1D12 20/x3 [(80 x 6.5 = 520) + (15 x 6.5 = 97.5) + (5 x 19.5 = 97.5)] = 715

1D12 19-20/x2 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (30 x 6.5 = 195) + (10 x 13 = 130)] = 715

1D10 18-20/x2 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (45 x 5.5 = 247.5) + (15 x 11 = 165)] = 632.5

17.

1D10 20/x4 [(60 x 5.5 = 330) + (16 x 5.5 = 88) + (4 x 22 = 88)] = 506

1D12 20/x3 [(60 x 6.5 = 390) + (16 x 6.5 = 104) + (4 x 19.5 = 78)] = 572

1D12 19-20/x2 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (32 x 6.5 = 208) + (8 x 13 = 104)] = 572

1D10 18-20/x2 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (48 x 5.5 = 264) + (12 x 11 = 132)] = 506

18.

1D10 20/x4 [(40 x 5.5 = 220) + (17 x 5.5 = 93.5) + (3 x 22 = 66)] = 379.5

1D12 20/x3 [(40 x 6.5 = 260) + (17 x 6.5 = 110.5) + (3 x 19.5 = 58.5)] = 429

1D12 19-20/x2 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (34 x 6.5 = 221) + (6 x 13 = 78)] = 429

1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (51 x 5.5 = 280.5) + (9 x 11 = 99)] = 379.5

19.

1D10 20/x4 [(20 x 5.5 = 110) + (18 x 5.5 = 99) + (2 x 22 = 44)] = 253

1D12 20/x3 [(20 x 6.5 = 130) + (18 x 6.5 = 117) + (2 x 19.5 = 39)] = 286

1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (36 x 6.5 = 234) + (4 x 13 = 52)] = 286

1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (36 x 5.5 = 198) + (4 x 11 = 44)] = 242

20.

1D10 20/x4 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 22 = 22)] = 126.5

1D12 20/x3 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 19.5 = 19.5)] = 143

1D12 19-20/x2 [(0 x 6.5 = 0) + (19 x 6.5 = 123.5) + (1 x 13 = 13)] = 136.5

1D10 18-20/x2 [(0 x 5.5 = 0) + (19 x 5.5 = 104.5) + (1 x 11 = 11)] = 115.5

Average Damage = (126.5 x 209 = 26,438.5) / (8,000) = 3.3048125 (4,807 effective hits)

Average Damage = (143 x 209 = 29,887) / (8,000) = 3.735875 (4,598 effective hits)

Average Damage = 136.5 + (143 x 208 = 29,744) / (8,000) = 3.7350625 (4,576 effective hits)

Average Damage = 115.5 + 242 + (126.5 x 206 = 26,059) / 8,000 = 3.3020625 (4,738 effective hits)

You can extrapolate from there in particular comparative cases, the average damage caused by fighting with two weapons would be twice normal.

Explanatory Note: These are the average damage totals over 8,000 rolls, 400 at each probability of a hit etcetera ], and taking into account their critical ranges. To increase or decrease the armour class range or hit probability, you need to increase or decrease the number of effective hits according to the above.

Thane of Fife

2008-12-08, 04:56 PM

1) Full Attack (one level in Lion Totem Barbarian, or something similar will solve that)

I hear this a lot, but where does it come from? The SRD gives Lion Totem Barbarians Run (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#lionTotemClassFeatures ) as their first level bonus.

Did it used to be pounce, and just get changed? Is it pounce in the Unearthed Arcana book? Am I completely missing something?

Stupendous_Man

2008-12-08, 04:58 PM

I hear this a lot, but where does it come from? The SRD gives Lion Totem Barbarians Run (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#lionTotemClassFeatures ) as their first level bonus.

Did it used to be pounce, and just get changed? Is it pounce in the Unearthed Arcana book? Am I completely missing something?

The Complete Champion's Lion Totem gets Pounce, to the joy of optimizers everywhere.

slurpz

2008-12-08, 05:04 PM

To be fair, the Lion totem barbarian in the Complete Champion is technically the Spirit Lion totem.

Matthew

2008-12-08, 05:10 PM

I hear this a lot, but where does it come from? The SRD gives Lion Totem Barbarians Run (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#lionTotemClassFeatures ) as their first level bonus.

Did it used to be pounce, and just get changed? Is it pounce in the Unearthed Arcana book? Am I completely missing something?

Stupendous_Man and Slurpz are correct; I should have been clearer, this particular variant is from the Complete Champion (p. 46), and at first level replaces the Barbarian's fast movement class feature with the pounce ability (Monster Manual, p. 313).

Jasdoif

2008-12-08, 05:30 PM

Stupendous_Man and Slurpz are correct; I should have been clearer, this particular variant is from the Complete Champion (p. 46), and at first level replaces the Barbarian's fast movement class feature with the pounce ability (Monster Manual, p. 313).It's one of those cases of easily confused names. Like how an incorporeal touch attack isn't a touch attack.

Paul H

2008-12-08, 05:32 PM

Hi

What about TWF with Swashbuckler/Ftr combi?

Elven Thinblade from CW does D8 Piercing. Threat 18-20*2 damage. Add high Int bonus damage to Str bonus. Add TWF series & Imp Crit - I think it's doable.

Cheers

Paul H

monty

2008-12-08, 05:33 PM

To be fair, the Lion totem barbarian in the Complete Champion is technically the Spirit Lion totem.

This. People always seem to forget the "spirit" part. I know I was confused when I heard about it at first.

slurpz

2008-12-08, 05:38 PM

This. People always seem to forget the "spirit" part. I know I was confused when I heard about it at first.

I wish I could QFT myself. :smallamused:

tyckspoon

2008-12-08, 06:15 PM

Hi

What about TWF with Swashbuckler/Ftr combi?

Elven Thinblade from CW does D8 Piercing. Threat 18-20*2 damage. Add high Int bonus damage to Str bonus. Add TWF series & Imp Crit - I think it's doable.

Cheers

Paul H

It works, sort of, if you really want to base your build on full-BAB classes. But it's still mechanically beaten by THF and it adds severe MAD- you now need high Dex to get and keep your TWF feats along with high Int for damage and the normal Strength for both damage and to-hit. Plus your bonus damage is precision-based, so it doesn't work on anything you can't Sneak Attack. From an optimization standpoint, if you're going to use three levels to get precision damage you may as well go with Rogue (2d6 Sneak Attack averages 7 points extra damage, plus good skill gain) or Swordsage (2d6 Sneak Attack from Shadow Hand stance, good skills, possible use of high Dex to damage from Shadow Blade feat.)

Paul H

2008-12-08, 06:39 PM

Hi

Was thinking of the TW Rend/TW Pounce combi from PHBII.

Insightful Strike doesn't require target to be flat footed or denied Dex bonus. So it's bit better than Sneak Attack. Only reason I suggested 4 lvls of Ftr was for feats & Wpn Specialisation.

Only reason I came across this combi was with NWN2 SoZ. (Though that was a Rogue/Swashbuckler/Ftr combi going Wpn Master).

Rest of stuff I'm not sure about - don't have the books.

Cheers

Paul H

woodenbandman

2008-12-08, 07:07 PM

It works, sort of, if you really want to base your build on full-BAB classes. But it's still mechanically beaten by THF and it adds severe MAD- you now need high Dex to get and keep your TWF feats along with high Int for damage and the normal Strength for both damage and to-hit. Plus your bonus damage is precision-based, so it doesn't work on anything you can't Sneak Attack. From an optimization standpoint, if you're going to use three levels to get precision damage you may as well go with Rogue (2d6 Sneak Attack averages 7 points extra damage, plus good skill gain) or Swordsage (2d6 Sneak Attack from Shadow Hand stance, good skills, possible use of high Dex to damage from Shadow Blade feat.)

Weapon finesse for one, and for another, forget Swash-fighter, go for Daring Outlaw. There's a cool trick to do which involves using feat rogue and dipping swordsage to get that shadow hand stance assasin's stance to get more than 100% of a rogue's sneak attack progression as well as a high BAB and hit die. Not great for rogueing (not bad either), but better in a flat out smackfest. Once it gets down to the true strength of the rogue, which is UMD, though, it's not so incredible, but again, not so bad.

Kaiyanwang

2008-12-09, 04:22 AM

One of the few ways to do an effective TWFigting is to built the character rely on two things:

-Styles/and or effects on strikes and crits that add condition to the opponent (in that case more strikes, more saves and/or chances to crit) critting (staggering blow, staggering critical), hitting more times (dire flail smash, three mountains) or combining two strikes from main and off-hand (high sword low axe)

-Combat reflexes, combat reflexes feats allowing more strikes (or at least a main hand and off-hand strike) in the same opportunity, feats allowing to trigger AOO in more istances (close combat fighting, mage slayer, supernatural istincts)

Depending from your party you coldn't be "buffed up" enough to gather enough minimal damage, so you could be forced to take weapon specialization tier feats - this could lead to don't have enough feats to do finish your built.

Anyway,when I see barbarian I see 2H. And ubercharger fighter can do nasty things powerattacking, so I'll go for the simpler solution here.

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