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View Full Version : Level 6 build -- non-lethal meleer? [3.5]



Bulwer
2008-12-08, 03:34 PM
I'm building a level 6 character (any 0-LA race (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10002276), any official 3.5 source), and I plan to go Justicar at level 7, or otherwise be able to deal large amounts of non-lethal damage.

It needs to be playable from 6 on but not before, and not be absurdly and obviously minmaxed. I have a godly stat spread to play with (16/16/16/16/18/18 yeah I know) and WBL for equipment.

The party is well-balanced, and there is one other melee combatant, probably a Knight or similar.

What would you guys recommend for my first 6 levels? I was thinking Fighter 2 or 3, and maybe some other fun stuff. No multiclass penalty, so that's not an issue.

For reference, the requirements for Justicar are: Lawful, BaB +6, Gather Info, Search, Survivial 5 ranks, Feats: Skill Focus (GI), Track, though of course none of that matters if something better comes along.

Abbott
2008-12-08, 03:38 PM
Rangers make rather decent justiciars, especially the urban variant from UA.

Bulwer
2008-12-08, 03:51 PM
Yes indeed they do. I'm pretty limited to classes with full BAB for optimal PrCing.

Oh, and Flaws and Traits are okay, standard UA rules (2 flaws, 2 feats for them).

enderrocksonall
2008-12-08, 03:53 PM
Any class you want, any race you want, Vow of Poverty, Vow of Non-Violence, and Vow of Peace. There you are done.

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 03:56 PM
If your goal is just to do non-lethal damage, you could just give your weapon of choice the Merciful enchantment, and focus your build on something other than Justicar.

Bulwer
2008-12-08, 04:04 PM
If your goal is just to do non-lethal damage, you could just give your weapon of choice the Merciful enchantment, and focus your build on something other than Justicar.

I know that, but I also kind of like Justicar's non-lethal sneak-attacky bonus damage. It's not just the one class feature: I like the class.

I do have the ability to build something MAD, like a paladin. A Vow-of-stuff monk is cool, too, and so on.

only1doug
2008-12-08, 04:20 PM
with those stats? Paladin (tp://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) 6.
18's in Str and Cha.

Getting the skills listed to 5 ranks before 7th level requires them being class skills (max 4.5 ranks in cross-class skills at 6th level).

Gather Info, Search, Survival aren't class skills in many Full BAB classes, consider waiting until L8 for Justicar?
(scout and ranger get search and survival, still need gather info)

Able Learner will reduce the skill points cost of the cross class skill but not help the max ranks known.


Edit: ninja'd on the Paladin suggestion by the OP.

Signmaker
2008-12-08, 04:27 PM
So eagarly tempted to say Monk, as it's one of the few times you'll see a monk on-par or even better than the usual fighter types. Those stats are purdy. Similarly, Stunning Fist combined with a nonlethal Unarmed Strike does fit the flavor of a Justiciar a bit. Possibly invest in Use Rope as well.

The only issue, sadly, is the fact that you want in by 7th level, and Monk is a 3/4ths class. That being the case, Knight or Paladin would be your best options, I would think.

Tengu_temp
2008-12-08, 05:41 PM
Hello! I'm a feat you could use. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Subduing_Strike,BE)

RTGoodman
2008-12-08, 06:17 PM
with those stats? Paladin (tp://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) 6.
18's in Str and Cha.

Getting the skills listed to 5 ranks before 7th level requires them being class skills (max 4.5 ranks in cross-class skills at 6th level).

Gather Info, Search, Survival aren't class skills in many Full BAB classes, consider waiting until L8 for Justicar?


How about maybe a Human Paladin 3/Human Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#humanParagon) 3? That should get all the pre-reqs (including all the feats as bonus feats, so you never have to spend your normal 1/3/6 feats on them), plus normal Paladin 3 stuff (Cha to saves, a Smite, immunity to diseases and fear, etc.), the ability to always have one skill be a class skill, AND +2 Str or Cha (whichever you'd like). You'd lose 1 point of BAB, though, and some Fort save, but with your godly Con and Cha scores, I think you should be fine. Throw on a +1 merciful greatsword or something, and then go to town with non-lethal Power Attacks and such.

Eldariel
2008-12-08, 06:23 PM
Ranger gets all the skills. You need to switch out Handle Animal for Gather Information as per Cityscape Web Enhancement, but it can be done. Heck, you could pick Trap Expert [Dungeonscape] over Track and get Trapfinding for your trouble.

Tacoma
2008-12-08, 07:11 PM
I have but one thing to add. Take as many flaws as your DM will allow and purchase traits with them. Edge/Flaw systems are always in the player's benefit.

Or should I say, to the benefit of the player who wants a character with lots of powerful abilities.

BizzaroStormy
2008-12-08, 07:25 PM
At level 6, you should easily be able to afford a +2 weapon so just take whatever class you want an give it a merciful weapon.

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 07:32 PM
At level 6, you should easily be able to afford a +2 weapon so just take whatever class you want an give it a merciful weapon.

Gee, I think someone might have suggested that...


If your goal is just to do non-lethal damage, you could just give your weapon of choice the Merciful enchantment, and focus your build on something other than Justicar.

Oh hey! They did! But I guess maybe the person who made the thread didn't see it...


I know that, but I also kind of like Justicar's non-lethal sneak-attacky bonus damage. It's not just the one class feature: I like the class.

I do have the ability to build something MAD, like a paladin. A Vow-of-stuff monk is cool, too, and so on.

Oh wait, he did! :smallyuk:
Anywho.

Well, if you want to go with the Justicar (which I can understand), I might actually recommend...
The Thug variant fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) with Sneak Attack! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter)
Would definitely work with the concept.

DrizztFan24
2008-12-08, 07:53 PM
Non-lethal? Monk, you wont kill a thing.

UserClone
2008-12-08, 08:05 PM
Hm...Barbarian with Righteous Wrath and Subduing Strike?

Edit: If you combine the Thug and Sneak Attack fighter, wouldn't you theoretcally lose a d6 of SA, due to the fact that the Thug gives up his first fighter feat to get the skillz?

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 08:13 PM
Hm...Barbarian with Righteous Wrath and Subduing Strike?

Edit: If you combine the Thug and Sneak Attack fighter, wouldn't you theoretcally lose a d6 of SA, due to the fact that the Thug gives up his first fighter feat to get the skillz?

Meh. I wouldn't think so. The sneak attack variant just says you lose your fighter feats and gain sneak attack progression- not that your sneak attack progression is based on your fighter feat progression.

UserClone
2008-12-08, 08:18 PM
Okay, but (and I realize they recommend combining the two right there in UA) how can you give up a feat to which you are no longer entitled/no longer have, depending in which order you want to look at it?

AmberVael
2008-12-08, 08:24 PM
Okay, but (and I realize they recommend combining the two right there in UA) how can you give up a feat to which you are no longer entitled/no longer have, depending in which order you want to look at it?

You don't lose it. However, it only asks that you lose your fighter bonus feats, not 11 fighter bonus feats in particular. So it doesn't matter if you're giving up 10 or 11, you're still giving up your fighter bonus feats for sneak attack progression.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 08:25 PM
Does anyone know how to add Search as a Class Skill? That's the only problem I'm having coming up with a build: I can't find a full-BAB class with it. The only other solution is PrCing, but that seems too resource-intensive, and I'd probably run into the same problem. See if your DM will allow you to substitute something else for the requirement. As a Barbarian you can Search and Gather Info using other skills according to Cityscape, which is awesome, and means that you could max those other skills and accomplish the same thing with no levels cross-class.

Draz74
2008-12-09, 12:02 PM
Does anyone know how to add Search as a Class Skill? That's the only problem I'm having coming up with a build: I can't find a full-BAB class with it.

People always seem to forget that Rangers get Search ... even Chronos in his Skillmonkey Guide did.

jcsw
2008-12-09, 12:18 PM
Oh, wow. I just built a theoratical character around this in another thread.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5444265&postcount=10

What a coinkidink.