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Gardakan
2008-12-08, 08:41 PM
So i'm thinking to make an arcane trickster build because in my party there is lack of that power. My ancient character die to save the rest of the party composed by a sorcerer, a bard, a dwarven protector and a magical archer elven.

I have 9 levels to take and i want to make a grey elf due to the + 2 Int and + 2 Dex. I'm thinking of taking 4 levels wizard, 1 level of rogue, 2 levels of Unseen Seer, 2 levels or Arcane Trickster...

My stats are 18, 17, 17 ,16 ,15, 13...

I have acces to the base books and all the complements

Mushroom Ninja
2008-12-08, 08:45 PM
Acquire Dual Wand Wielding and make heads explode with two wands of scorching ray :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2008-12-08, 09:01 PM
Acquire Dual Wand Wielding and make heads explode with two wands of scorching ray :smallbiggrin:

Man I just pictured OP tumbling into a room sideways in slo-mo, wands akimbo John Woo-style, and the goblins look up from their poker game just in time to eat scorching death

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-08, 09:05 PM
Man I just pictured OP tumbling into a room sideways in slo-mo, wands akimbo John Woo-style, and the goblins look up from their poker game just in time to eat scorching death
With his twin wands, Hurt and Burn...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 09:11 PM
So i'm thinking to make an arcane trickster build because in my party there is lack of that power. My ancient character die to save the rest of the party composed by a sorcerer, a bard, a dwarven protector and a magical archer elven.

I have 9 levels to take and i want to make a grey elf due to the + 2 Int and + 2 Dex. I'm thinking of taking 4 levels wizard, 1 level of rogue, 2 levels of Unseen Seer, 2 levels or Arcane Trickster...

My stats are 18, 17, 17 ,16 ,15, 13...

I have acces to the base books and all the complementsWhy do you want AT? I'd suggest Beguiler for the same flavor but better mechanics.

Aneantir
2008-12-08, 09:15 PM
I would recommend you take a level of Spellthief over Rogue, then take the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel. it'll keep your full caster level, albeit without the spell progression, and you get to cast in light armor without penalty.

Keld Denar
2008-12-08, 09:18 PM
Grey Elf is a decent choice. See if you can grab the Hummingbird familiar (+4 init) from one of the Dragon Mags, and then take the Elven Generalist Wizard racial subs from Races of the Wild. This nets you a bonus spell at your highest spell slot, and at 4th level DOUBLES YOUR FAMILIAR BONUS. This means your Hummingbird gives you a +8 init, which, with your decent elven dex means you'll be swinging a +12-13 init before you factor in Nerve Skitter (SpC, Wiz1) which brings that to +17-18 in most fights. If you get the surprise round, thats 2 rounds you can toss out spells for sneak attack for 2 rounds before having to worry about qualifying.

Just watch out for your Con, you don't want your HP or Fort save to be too low.

Consider investing in the feat Acid Splash. Its a CMage [Reserve] feat that allows you to fling acid all day long (and sneak attack with it!) as long as you keep an acid spell preped. At low levels, this could be Lesser Acid Orb or Acid Arrow, or at higher levels Acid Fog. Great for tactical longevity.

Eldariel
2008-12-08, 09:24 PM
For Arcane Trickster, I strongly suggest Rogue 1/Wizard 4-5/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster (if you have to go Arcane Trickster - personally, I'd prefer just finishing Unseen Seer, but Arcane Trickster isn't absolutely horrible beyond the entry skill requirements). More skillpoints, almost full casting, some great extra spell options from Unseen Seer and all the Sneak Attack you could want. Wizard 4-5 is the matter of whether you want Spontaneous Divination or better Roguism more. Personal favourite race is Human for Able Learner and extra skillpoints, although if you could get Able Learner with another race, Gray Elf, Lesser Tiefling (Humanoid (Native)-typed Tiefling without Level Adjustment), or any other Int-boosting LA+0 race would be good.

Flickerdart
2008-12-08, 09:33 PM
Remember to pick up Faerie Mysteries Initiate, which will pretty much let you dump CON. Just avoid that Fort save, could get nasty. There should be a feat to take care of that, too.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-08, 09:52 PM
Remember to pick up Faerie Mysteries Initiate, which will pretty much let you dump CON. Just avoid that Fort save, could get nasty. There should be a feat to take care of that, too.Nope. Sorry. Can't find any way of replacing Con. Rune Delver's Fortune adds Cha as a Swift action, but there's not much for Fort. A couple of classes add things to saves, but they're generally way too expensive.

Flickerdart
2008-12-08, 09:56 PM
Then some Miscellaneous Bling of Fortitude should make up for those points splendidly.

Gardakan
2008-12-08, 11:13 PM
For my constitution i put 17 so 15 with -2 racial penalty. I buy a amulet of constitution + 1(1000 gp). So + 3 in constitution is good...

PurinaDragonCho
2008-12-09, 10:46 AM
Doesn't Unseen Seer reduce your caster level for all schools of magic other than divination? IIRC, it's awesome, except for that, which is kind of a deal breaker to me.

Daggerspell Mage requires two feats, but you get 3/4 BAB and 6 skill points, IIRC - and it only takes one level of rogue to get into it (although first level doesn't advance your spellcasting).

kamikasei
2008-12-09, 11:05 AM
I don't follow. If the party already has a sorcerer and a bard, why do you feel an arcane trickster covers something you're missing? Wouldn't a pure skillmonkey with trapfinding, or else a divine caster, work better with those other characters?

If you do want an arcane caster and skillmonkey, though, I second the suggestion of Beguiler (if you have PHB2). If you're set on Arcane Trickster, I defer to those who know the completes and their tricksy PrCs better than I.


But, I can understand not wanting to play something based on need alone.

Indeed, but my impression from the OP was that he was playing the AT due to perceived need already.

Haven
2008-12-09, 11:29 AM
I don't follow. If the party already has a sorcerer and a bard, why do you feel an arcane trickster covers something you're missing? Wouldn't a pure skillmonkey with trapfinding, or else a divine caster, work better with those other characters?

I was thinking the same thing along a slightly different line: it sounds like your party could really use another front-liner.
But, I can understand not wanting to play something based on need alone.

Eldariel
2008-12-09, 12:30 PM
Doesn't Unseen Seer reduce your caster level for all schools of magic other than divination? IIRC, it's awesome, except for that, which is kind of a deal breaker to me.

Daggerspell Mage requires two feats, but you get 3/4 BAB and 6 skill points, IIRC - and it only takes one level of rogue to get into it (although first level doesn't advance your spellcasting).

It does. However, there's a solution, and a feat you'd want to pick anyways:
Practiced Spellcaster

with Rogue 1/Wizard X/Unseen Seer 10, it still pumps your Caster Level up to your HD. So you make good use of every point of Practiced Spellcaster-buff, get extra powerful Divinations and all the Unseen Seer goodies. That's how it should work too, and that's a real Rogue/Wizard.

Kesnit
2008-12-09, 12:49 PM
It does. However, there's a solution, and a feat you'd want to pick anyways:
Practiced Spellcaster

with Rogue 1/Wizard X/Unseen Seer 10, it still pumps your Caster Level up to your HD.

Not sure how much Unseen Seer lowers CL, but Practiced Caster only raises CL by 4.

MeklorIlavator
2008-12-09, 12:54 PM
Not sure how much Unseen Seer lowers CL, but Practiced Caster only raises CL by 4.

It lowers your caster level by at most 3, so the build works.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-12-09, 02:33 PM
It does. However, there's a solution, and a feat you'd want to pick anyways:
Practiced Spellcaster

with Rogue 1/Wizard X/Unseen Seer 10, it still pumps your Caster Level up to your HD. So you make good use of every point of Practiced Spellcaster-buff, get extra powerful Divinations and all the Unseen Seer goodies. That's how it should work too, and that's a real Rogue/Wizard.

I just realized the OP only plans to take 2 levels of Unseen Seer - IIRC, you take the caster level hit at level 3.

I'm not sure I'd take Practiced Spellcaster for only one lost caster level. Feats are too precious. Two or more, though, absolutely.

Gardakan
2008-12-10, 07:12 AM
I just realized the OP only plans to take 2 levels of Unseen Seer - IIRC, you take the caster level hit at level 3.

I'm not sure I'd take Practiced Spellcaster for only one lost caster level. Feats are too precious. Two or more, though, absolutely.

I prefer master spellthief... this feat allow me to wear light armor to cast arcane spells without penalties and to add my spellthief level to my arcane caster level and my arcane caster level to the steal spell ability of the spellthief. So i can steal spell of the level 5 and i cast spell like a level 10 wizard with a level 9 for determining how many spells i have per day.

For Faeries Mysteries Initiate it's ubber.... my Intelligence is 26 and my constitution is 13... so i have + 8 per HD for my hp.

Eldariel
2008-12-10, 07:42 AM
I just realized the OP only plans to take 2 levels of Unseen Seer - IIRC, you take the caster level hit at level 3.

I'm not sure I'd take Practiced Spellcaster for only one lost caster level. Feats are too precious. Two or more, though, absolutely.

Yes, I was just responding to the Unseen Seer 10-point. It makes a nice use of all 4 levels the Practiced Spellcaster gives you (consider it an entry requirement to the PrC or something - it's fairly awesome and has none in the standard form). Unseen Seer 2? Absolutely not - 1 CL isn't worth a feat if it's only CL and not actual spellcasting level.

Gardakan: Master Spellthief's problem is really that you don't gain spell level progression, so you'll lack the ability to retain high-level stolen spells. The benefit of casting arcane spells in light armor rapidly fades; around level 5, you could already afford to keep Mage Armor up all day and it offers protection comparable to Chain Shirt without any of the ACFs, ACP (huge for Rogues), etc. Rogue's extra skillpoints really come in handy for making up for the Wizard-levels (assuming PHBII retraining or skillpoint saving of course; otherwise they mean few extra Knowledges/whatever instead), and Rogue's skill list is far, far superior too (Sleight of Hand is awesome). That said, your character, do as you will.

Gardakan
2008-12-10, 08:14 AM
But with Practiced spellcaster... it is my level of arcane caster that grow up of all my spellcaster level for the spells. Would i prepared my spells like mu full level progression of wizard level 9 of just being a wizard level 8 that cast with a level 9...

kamikasei
2008-12-10, 08:22 AM
Practiced Spellcaster increases your caster level, but not your spells known or spells per day. You don't cast higher-level spells, but the spells you can cast are more powerful as if cast by a higher-level wizard.

Gardakan
2008-12-10, 08:29 AM
Practiced Spellcaster increases your caster level, but not your spells known or spells per day. You don't cast higher-level spells, but the spells you can cast are more powerful as if cast by a higher-level wizard.

But why i couldn't take the Master Spellthief feat... it's the same thing but more powerful...