a reason to celebrate

[reorith]

on friday, i purchased a military surplus yugoslavian sks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS) from a dude. straight cash, five bundles of fifty one dollar bills. she was stuck on a rack next to a bunch of shiny black ar-15s and she was coated in cosmoline and after three days of using solvents in confined space without ventilation i finally got her into operational condition. :smallsmile: the sks is one of the greatest semi-auto battle rifles ever and anyone who says other wise can meet me at high noon.

[UserClone]

I abhor guns, personally. What possible reason could a person have for owning an automatic weapon, especially? What good could possibly outweigh the potential disaster, and of what use can it be? Also, you made it sound like a drug deal.:smallyuk:

You know, what? Forget I said anything. WAY too political.

[Flame of Anor]

Well, okay then. I'm glad you like your new boomstick. If I may ask, what do you want it for?

[Icewalker]

Sounds like primarily for collection kinda purposes? And because it's awesome?

Not for actual use?

[Don Julio Anejo]

Oooh. 7.62x39mm rifle. Very nice, I like.

[reorith]

Well, okay then. I'm glad you like your new boomstick. If I may ask, what do you want it for?

icewalker called it. mostly to own a piece of history. like maybe i'll take her to the range and shoot some targets at 50-100yards but apart from that, she'll just occupy space in my gun locker.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Even if it was for actual use, its not illegal or anything. Semi-automatic. Semi. This is of course assuming your in the US.

Plus, shooting at targets/etc is a hobby for some people. My dad and neighbor both do so regularly out in ranges. I've never really understood some of the just pure negativity that comes from owning guns. Well, ok, I understand it. But I just don't agree with it is all.

Edit: Oh, and congrats. :smallsmile:

[Don Julio Anejo]

icewalker called it. mostly to own a piece of history. like maybe i'll take her to the range and shoot some targets at 50-100yards but apart from that, she'll just occupy space in my gun locker.

Then why not a Mosin Nagant 1938? It's one of the most famous rifles in history, and from what I understand, is still quite easy to get hands on.

[reorith]

Then why not a Mosin Nagant 1938? It's one of the most famous rifles in history, and from what I understand, is still quite easy to get hands on.

because i ordered one and the m44 this afternoon and will receive them in a couple weeks. i'll have my bulk purchased milsurp ammo before my firearms arrive.

[LordVader]

Sounds pretty awesome, anything that goes bang really fast is cool in my book.

@FlWiPig- Don't strike it, delete it, or people can still read the comments.

[kopout]

I have a group of friends who are gun nuts. They have tried to get me interested but my eyes sort of glosse over . They would probably like this .

[Felixaar]

Well, okay then. I'm glad you like your new boomstick. If I may ask, what do you want it for?

Golf.

Re-orith is a very agressive golfer.



...By Steve, if anyone gets that reference from outside Australia I'll eat my shoes.

[UserClone]

I remember something about a fellow who could shoot a rifle at a tossed golf ball and get it on the green. While this amuses me, it still seems needlessy risky for the potential poor bastard on the next whole who eats the bullet.

[kopout]

Golf.

Re-orith is a very agressive golfer.



...By Steve, if anyone gets that reference from outside Australia I'll eat my shoes.

I don't get it . Which is to bad , I wanted to see you eat your shoes:smallfrown:.
but I did nearly lol my self out of my chair with the mental image :smallbiggrin:

[reorith]

Golf.

Re-orith is a very agressive golfer.



...By Steve, if anyone gets that reference from outside Australia I'll eat my shoes.
is it from that movie where the dudes have a high powered rifle in a golf bag and it spills over while some on lookers watch, one dude shoves everything while the other dude tells the watcher "so and so is a very aggressive golfer"

also

http://www.bloomautomatic.com/ :smallbiggrin:

[Felixaar]

No, in the movie I speak of the characters are never actually sighted on a golf course.

Eating my shoes is something that will probably happen at one point or another with all the bets I make hinging on it. I'll YouTube it if I manage to get trumped at any point.

[Myatar_Panwar]

http://www.bloomautomatic.com/ :smallbiggrin:

Haha, oh man. That is great.

[RS14]

Congrats. It looks like a nice rifle.

Am I the only one who read this and thought reorith had bought military surplus skis for a moment?

[Mando Knight]

Even if it was for actual use, its not illegal or anything. Semi-automatic. Semi. This is of course assuming your in the US.

Hm? It's legal to purchase assault weapons in the US... unless you're in California, NY, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Jersey... the assault weapons ban expired four years ago.

[RS14]

Hm? It's legal to purchase assault weapons in the US... unless you're in California, NY, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Jersey... the assault weapons ban expired four years ago.

But not legal to purchase automatic weapons, with some exceptions.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Hm? It's legal to purchase assault weapons in the US... unless you're in California, NY, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Jersey... the assault weapons ban expired four years ago.

Oh really? I thought it was still nationwide, myself being in California.

Actually, that makes sense now. I have some family in Wisconsin and was a little bit surprised to learn that they had a couple assault rifles.

[reorith]

i come bearing a picture!
http://i33.tinypic.com/20kezvo.jpg

[Jack Squat]

Oh really? I thought it was still nationwide, myself being in California.

Actually, that makes sense now. I have some family in Wisconsin and was a little bit surprised to learn that they had a couple assault rifles.

The national Assault Weapon ban did nothing to deter the purchase of actual assault weapons, which by definition are select fire. It banned certain features, such as pistol grips, magazine capacities over 10 rounds, bayonet lugs, and flash hiders. What your family probably had were civilian versions, such as the AR-15 (not M-16 or M-4), the semi-auto AK-47, or the like.

Buying an automatic weapon is legal under 3 conditions:
1. You're not in a place that prohibits the purchase (see above list)
2. You fill out a form 1 from the BATFE and do everything required, including background checks, fingerprinting, $200 tax (or writing a trust and still paying the $200 tax).
3. You purchase one registered before 1984.

Meet all of those conditions and you can have a gun with your very own giggle-switch.

Reorith: cool bit of history you've got there. Now be sure to load up on stripper clips and Wolf ammo.

[13_CBS]

Ooh! Pretty looking gun. Congrats on the find!

[de-trick]

break out the champagne, nice gun

[reorith]

break out the champagne, nice gun

firearms and alcohol never mix!

[Felixaar]

firearms and alcohol always mix!

Fixed it for you.

[SurlySeraph]

i come bearing a picture!
http://i33.tinypic.com/20kezvo.jpg

Where do you live? Because if I need to set up a guerilla army, you're going to be the first person I call.

[thubby]

needs moar daka.

[Elm11]

I abhor guns, personally. What possible reason could a person have for owning an automatic weapon, especially? What good could possibly outweigh the potential disaster, and of what use can it be? Also, you made it sound like a drug deal.:smallyuk:

You know, what? Forget I said anything. WAY too political.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that is simply a disruptive comment-one intended to start an arguement. I am happy to respect your opinion about firearms, but not happy for you to add negative comments to a conversation. Also, some more strict people would consider that passive flaming

[skywalker]

because i ordered one and the m44 this afternoon and will receive them in a couple weeks. i'll have my bulk purchased milsurp ammo before my firearms arrive.

Didn't you specifically say (in my Blackberry thread, in which you seemed upset about this kind of thread... nvm) that putting bad ammo thru the weapon is a bad idea?

The movie reference made me think of shotgun golf. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1992213) RIP Hunter. That story, coincidentally, reminds me of my granddad's hat story: Once upon a time, he and the local sheriff were hanging out, when the sheriff decided to show my granddad his new shotgun. My granddad was wearing a brand new hat (this was the 50s, when hats were serious business.). The sheriff said "Hey, throw your hat up in the air, so I can see if I can shoot it!" Granddad, thinking he was kidding, threw his hat in the air. The sheriff killed my granddad's brand new hat spectacularly. So granddad said "Ok, your turn." The sheriff threw his hat up, and my granddad missed his shot while the hat was in the air. However, upon the hat hitting the ground, he re-loaded and blew the hell out of the now stationary hat. I love my granddad.

Felix, when you said "by Steve," did you mean Steve Irwin? Or some other Steve? I have seen someone eat their shoes before, it was interesting.

*is not touching the legal discussion with a 10-ft. pole*

[reorith]

Didn't you specifically say (in my Blackberry thread, in which you seemed upset about this kind of thread... nvm) that putting bad ammo thru the weapon is a bad idea?

*is not touching the legal discussion with a 10-ft. pole*

no, i was just teasing you because i am not a fan of blackberries. also pretty much all 7.62x54r is corrosive but remember, a clean firearm is a happy firearm. the 7.62x39 that i scored was non corrosive and not lacquered.


Where do you live? Because if I need to set up a guerilla army, you're going to be the first person I call.

central md :)

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I got a Mosin-Nagant M44 at Gander Mountain with some lacquered 7.62x54r called "Brown Bear." I got back from Iraq and felt a little naked without a weapon (especially with all the murders in my town recently), but I didn't want to spend much money or go through the hassle of buying a handgun. Then I saw the M44 which was 1) the cheapest gun in the store, and 2) pretty cool as a piece of history, with the bayonet an' all.

I'm no gun nut, but I do sleep a little better at night if I hear a ruckus outside knowing that I'm not defenseless. (Admittedly a long rifle not the best for home defense, but it's something.)

I do have to agree with the comment "You make it sound like a drug deal." Hehe- that's a lot of one-dollar bills! :smalltongue: Are you in the U.S.? Just curious if either you or the seller had to contact the Feds for the background check/registration.

[Jack Squat]

I got a Mosin-Nagant M44 at Gander Mountain with some lacquered 7.62x54r called "Brown Bear." I got back from Iraq and felt a little naked without a weapon (especially with all the murders in my town recently), but I didn't want to spend much money or go through the hassle of buying a handgun. Then I saw the M44 which was 1) the cheapest gun in the store, and 2) pretty cool as a piece of history, with the bayonet an' all.

I'm no gun nut, but I do sleep a little better at night if I hear a ruckus outside knowing that I'm not defenseless. (Admittedly a long rifle not the best for home defense, but it's something.)

I'd recommend getting a Shotgun for home defense...7.62x54R is comparable to a .30-06 round. It can punch through cinderblock, it'll definitely pass into a neighboring house. If you want cheap, get a Pawn Shop special.

That being said, I can't imagine anything more terrifying than breaking into a house and being confronted by an angry naked man holding a rifle with bayonet extended.

[KnightDisciple]

I'd recommend getting a Shotgun for home defense...7.62x54R is comparable to a .30-06 round. It can punch through cinderblock, it'll definitely pass into a neighboring house. If you want cheap, get a Pawn Shop special.

That being said, I can't imagine anything more terrifying than breaking into a house and being confronted by an angry naked man holding a rifle with bayonet extended.

An angry naked man with a double-barrel 12 gauge pointed at your head.

[reorith]

I got a Mosin-Nagant M44 at Gander Mountain with some lacquered 7.62x54r called "Brown Bear." I got back from Iraq and felt a little naked without a weapon (especially with all the murders in my town recently), but I didn't want to spend much money or go through the hassle of buying a handgun. Then I saw the M44 which was 1) the cheapest gun in the store, and 2) pretty cool as a piece of history, with the bayonet an' all.

I'm no gun nut, but I do sleep a little better at night if I hear a ruckus outside knowing that I'm not defenseless. (Admittedly a long rifle not the best for home defense, but it's something.)

I do have to agree with the comment "You make it sound like a drug deal." Hehe- that's a lot of one-dollar bills! :smalltongue: Are you in the U.S.? Just curious if either you or the seller had to contact the Feds for the background check/registration.

yeah i went through the nics process and waited for seven minutes for the okay from the atf. idk i paid in cash, i just kinda wanted to whip out a thick stack of bills and slap them on the counter while grinning. if you've never done this, i must recommend it.

also doc, do you worry about over penetration with the m44?

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I don't really plan on ever using the thing... haven't even taken it to a range yet. But I agree with you, reorith and Jack Squat, it's really not a good home defense weapon. But it's better than nothing, and nothing is what I would have had if I wanted a shotgun, which would have been another $150 that my wife didn't want us to spend. And for some reason I couldn't bring myself to buy a gun in a pawn shop... I just have irrational bad feelings about pawn shops.

The other bad thing about my M44, even though it's a carbine, is that it's quite heavy and combined with the walloping recoil I hear it has, my 110-lb wife will probably not ever feel comfortable using it, even though she has used both M-16s and AK-47s before. At first she didn't like the idea of buying a weapon at all, then when I brought it home she said she wanted a handgun like she had growing up. The problem is her expectations for how little we should have to pay are unrealistic. There are some pretty sexy little 9mms in the pawnshops I could get her, though perhaps something a little larger would be better for stopping power. Any recommendations for something both inexpensive and effective? Pictures would be nice.

Edit: large caliber is fine, but should have a smallish grip.

It's funny - growing up I felt so secure I thought it was ridiculous for people to want guns. Now that I have a family to protect in a city with violent crime, and also having experienced being at war where I knew there were people who actually wanted to kill me (though I was never in combat), I now feel more comfortable owning one. However, this is just my own personal view, and I can understand the views of others, even people who find the very thought of touching a firearm abhorrent. I think if I got a concealed carry permit and bought a pistol, it would take me a while to feel comfortable wearing it underneath my jacket to the mall (which actually might not be a bad idea, considering there have been gang-related shootings at malls around here).


I read this article before I bought my M44, and it made good sense to me:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/whyownagun.htm . And I suppose there's a touch of the survivalist in me that thinks, if the world goes to heck, if the dollar loses its value, etc etc, I don't think I'd regret buying a weapon or two.

[reorith]

9mm is fine for home defense. the taurus p911 runs about $350 and is one of the least expensive options that comes to mind. you could go a step up and find something chambered in .40 s&w i'm a fan of the smith and wesson m&p line.

but for home defense, an alarm system is a good measure. it will function even if you aren't home. the problem with purchasing a weapon for home defense, is if you aren't there while some dude is tearing your flat apart and ransacking your valuables, you may have just put a weapon out into the streets.

[Jack Squat]

I don't really plan on ever using the thing... haven't even taken it to a range yet. But I agree with you, reorith and Jack Squat, it's really not a good home defense weapon. But it's better than nothing, and nothing is what I would have had if I wanted a shotgun, which would have been another $150 that my wife didn't want us to spend. And for some reason I couldn't bring myself to buy a gun in a pawn shop... I just have irrational bad feelings about pawn shops.

I wouldn't have even suggested it if you hadn't mentioned wanting cheap. They're not the most pleasant places to be in, and you better know how to check them yourself, because chances are the guy behind the counter doesn't. I've heard stories of them being left in the store loaded.

When you take your M44 to the range, remember to stick the bayonet out when firing. That's how they were designed.


The other bad thing about my M44, even though it's a carbine, is that it's quite heavy and combined with the walloping recoil I hear it has, my 110-lb wife will probably not ever feel comfortable using it, even though she has used both M-16s and AK-47s before. At first she didn't like the idea of buying a weapon at all, then when I brought it home she said she wanted a handgun like she had growing up. The problem is her expectations for how little we should have to pay are unrealistic. There are some pretty sexy little 9mms in the pawnshops I could get her, though perhaps something a little larger would be better for stopping power. Any recommendations for something both inexpensive and effective? Pictures would be nice.

While I have yet to fire a M44 (my friend has one, hasn't gotten ammo for it yet), I don't expect the recoil to be that much different than my 60's Remington 721 in .30-06. Basically, hold it tight up to your shoulder or you'll be sorry. However, if fired properly, it doesn't feel too much worse than older 12 gauges. It's more of a push than a punch if held properly.

If you're looking for a small-ish, cheap pistol, I'd recommend a single stack Makarov (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg21-e.htm) or a Rock Island Armory 1911 (I really shouldn't have to link a picture to a 1911). They're a full-size gun, but it's a pretty small grip, and a lot of people find them really nice. Also the Rock Island Armory guns are as close to the original ones you can get, and are pretty cheap pistol-wise.

[Ninja Chocobo]

...By Steve, if anyone gets that reference from outside Australia I'll eat my shoes.

I didn't get that, and I am Australian. Which handily means I can't really contribute to the gun conversation.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I actually have a family member who has a pistol that I think is called a Mauser Long 9mm, I think it was purchased new about 20 years ago, and I may buy that. Though goodness knows what headaches I'll have to go through to get it as he lives in Europe and I'm in the U.S.

The other thing is that we will be moving to Europe for a three-year tour soon and I think any weapons we own will have to be kept in the armory rather than in our possession.

I agree that a security system in the home is a good thing - we've got one of those. How do you folks feel about non-lethal weapons, such as pepper spray and Tasers?

[reorith]

I actually have a family member who has a pistol that I think is called a Mauser Long 9mm, I think it was purchased new about 20 years ago, and I may buy that. Though goodness knows what headaches I'll have to go through to get it as he lives in Europe and I'm in the U.S.

The other thing is that we will be moving to Europe for a three-year tour soon and I think any weapons we own will have to be kept in the armory rather than in our possession.

I agree that a security system in the home is a good thing - we've got one of those. How do you folks feel about non-lethal weapons, such as pepper spray and Tasers?

tasers i have no issue with. the problem with pepper spray is you have to be in fairly close quarters to engage a person with it and at that range you might be better off with a crowbar or a nine iron. also, crowbars are handy, i usually carry one with me as it is legal and cheap,

but yeah pawnshops can be iffy. there is one near me that is run by a former baltimore city police officer and there is another one near me that is used by neonazis to move nazi related stuff:smallcreeped out:

[Jack Squat]

I actually have a family member who has a pistol that I think is called a Mauser

Long 9mm, I think it was purchased new about 20 years ago, and I may buy that. Though goodness knows what

headaches I'll have to go through to get it as he lives in Europe and I'm in the U.S.

Looking around, it should be perfectly fine (it's this (http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/images/mauser96.jpg), right?), but you'll need to go to a gun shop (or other FFL) and have them import it for you. Not really that big of a deal, maybe a couple forms, and a little ($25 or so) fee. EDIT: There shouldn't be one, but if there is a stock for it, make sure that it stays behind, unless you want to fill out a form, do some background checks, and pay $200 for a short barreled rifle.


I agree that a security system in the home is a good thing - we've got one of those.

How do you folks feel about non-lethal weapons, such as pepper spray and Tasers?

They're decent, but only work conditionally. Not everyone reacts to pepper spray, and people can hold out against tasers. I carry around some Sabre Red pepper spray in my back pocket because I'm not of age to carry (and can't on campus anyways). Even if it does work, expect pepper spray to take about 30 seconds to kick in. Tasers, I find, are too expensive. If you're going to keep something for Home Defense, I'd suggest either one of those big cans of bear spray, or a good baseball/cricket bat.

[skywalker]

9mm is fine for home defense. the taurus p911 runs about $350 and is one of the least expensive options that comes to mind.

:smallyuk: He said "effective," not just cheap.

I think you can apply the rule of three here: Effective, cheap, convenient. Choose two.

I like SIG but by Thor, those are not even close to cheap.


The other thing is that we will be moving to Europe for a three-year tour soon and I think any weapons we own will have to be kept in the armory rather than in our possession.

You are correct in your thinking. I wouldn't stock up too much, depending on how soon "soon" is. Where in Europe?


I carry around some Sabre Red pepper spray in my back pocket because I'm not of age to carry (and can't on campus anyways). Even if it does work, expect pepper spray to take about 30 seconds to kick in. Tasers, I find, are too expensive. If you're going to keep something for Home Defense, I'd suggest either one of those big cans of bear spray, or a good baseball/cricket bat.

:smallsigh: Did you participate in "empty holster day?"

I can say this about the real bear spray, from these guys (http://www.udap.com/). My dad used to carry it while biking because of some vicious dogs who didn't respond to Sabre. He said a even a full-grown rottweiler couldn't take a spray of that stuff to the face. So it's probably pretty good stuff. I mean, it's designed to work on bears.

[LordVader]

An angry naked man with a double-barrel 12 gauge pointed at your head.

And imagine if the 12-gauge had TWO bayonets...:smallbiggrin:

[Jack Squat]

:smallsigh: Did you participate in "empty holster day?"

No, didn't hear about it until the day after it happened. I plan on it next year though.

@ Vader: what about double barreled pump gun? (http://www.lesjones.com/posts/005378.shtml) (Bayonets not included)

[Hooded1]

Note to self: save some money, by some awesome guns.

[SurlySeraph]

@ Vader: what about double barreled pump gun? (http://www.lesjones.com/posts/005378.shtml) (Bayonets not included)

Get one of those, and then turn it into the most practical weapon ever by attaching one of THESE (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x-8YXMTRyN8)! :smallbiggrin:

[Bonecrusher Doc]

It's this (http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/images/mauser96.jpg), right?
No, it looks more like one of these (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg191-e.htm), but less snubby. I may have the name wrong.


If you're going to keep something for Home Defense, I'd suggest either one of those big cans of bear spray, or a good baseball/cricket bat.
This reminds me of the time in college the crew team was banging on the door of our suite at 5 AM looking for their coxswain (who was still asleep). Instead of finding him, they encountered my very grumpy South African roommate wearing only boxers and angrily brandishing a golf club.

EDIT: Definitely digging the Moe Syzlak shotgun!

[Jack Squat]

No, it looks more like one of these (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg191-e.htm), but less snubby. I may have the name wrong.

Well, I can't find anything on it. The only Mauser pistols I can find in 9mm are the Han Solo gun (the C96 I showed earlier) and Lugers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol). I'd check and see what 9mm cartridge it takes before you get it, but if you can get ammo here in the states easily, I say go for it. Old pistols are neat.

Psuedo edit: Looks like there was a Mauser 1912/1914 model that was tested in a 9mm, but it doesn't really look like it ever made it into production in any sort of numbers.

[skywalker]

Oh hey, real quick, Doc, you say you have a wife, are you planning on kids?

Because if you are, you might want to consider safety of the firearm as an issue, personally, I wouldn't go for an older gun, then. Just in case, you know?

[Jack Squat]

Oh hey, real quick, Doc, you say you have a wife, are you planning on kids?

Because if you are, you might want to consider safety of the firearm as an issue, personally, I wouldn't go for an older gun, then. Just in case, you know?

Don't kid-proof the guns, gun-proof the kids. Besides, many modern guns (i.e. glocks) don't have a safety. Not saying it's a good idea to leave loaded guns laying around in a house full of toddlers, but there's more than one way to combat the problem.

If you're referring to dropping, which is certainly a problem in older guns, keep it in a drawer.

...or just keep the Mosin. I'd like to see a kid cycle the action on most of those :smalltongue:

[reorith]

Don't kid-proof the guns, gun-proof the kids. Besides, many modern guns (i.e. glocks) don't have a safety. Not saying it's a good idea to leave loaded guns laying around in a house full of toddlers, but there's more than one way to combat the problem.

If you're referring to dropping, which is certainly a problem in older guns, keep it in a drawer.

...or just keep the Mosin. I'd like to see a kid cycle the action on most of those :smalltongue:

second. cable locks are a fairly inexpensive way to keep your firearms inoperable. also if you take your children to the range, take pictures and post them here.

[KnightDisciple]

Get one of those, and then turn it into the most practical weapon ever by attaching one of THESE (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x-8YXMTRyN8)! :smallbiggrin:

Best. Idea. EVER.
Seriously, that shotgun is bloody well awesome. I want one. :smallbiggrin:

@Empty Holster Day: If I was still at college, I would have participated.

[skywalker]

Don't kid-proof the guns, gun-proof the kids. Besides, many modern guns (i.e. glocks) don't have a safety. Not saying it's a good idea to leave loaded guns laying around in a house full of toddlers, but there's more than one way to combat the problem.

If you're referring to dropping, which is certainly a problem in older guns, keep it in a drawer.

...or just keep the Mosin. I'd like to see a kid cycle the action on most of those :smalltongue:

I was definitely talking about drops, other possible safety failures, etc. You can still drop it when you take it out of the drawer!

If you aren't going to collect (more importantly, if you are buying for defense), I don't see any reason why you shouldn't buy a newer firearm. It will definitely be safer in the "drops" department, will interact better with more types of ammo (hollow points, etc.), and will probably be cheaper.

In choosing a handgun for home defense, primary concern should be ease of firing. If you never plan on taking it out of the house, don't cut it down until you can't handle the thing. Second should be reliability. H&K has made a ton of money because when you pull the trigger on an H&K, it says "Bang!" every time. When someone is kicking in your door at night, you want your gun to say "bang!" too. If you do drop it, you don't want it to hit the floor and go off pointed at the bedroom where you just left your wife. I'm sure you probably understand a lot of that stuff, tho.

I think the 12ga. would be best too. My dad has a 12ga. that he cut down himself to exactly legal length. When you pull the trigger, it makes a tremendous bang and shoots out a blast of flame. But it's actually pretty easy to shoot even without the stock. Now, he and I are both big guys, but if you pick the right gun (not just caliber, not just manufacturer, but specific weapon) you can get a 12ga. that won't cause even a smaller person trouble.

Last of all, I want to go back to the gun-proofed kids thing. Yes, your kids may be gun-proofed. But what about their friends? You never know when a kid might wander into a room and open up a drawer.

[Jack Squat]

I was definitely talking about drops, other possible safety failures, etc. You can still drop it when you take it out of the drawer!

If you aren't going to collect (more importantly, if you are buying for defense), I don't see any reason why you shouldn't buy a newer firearm. It will definitely be safer in the "drops" department, will interact better with more types of ammo (hollow points, etc.), and will probably be cheaper.



Not all older guns are prone to drops, and a good bit of the firings from drops are actually from newer guns. See, people tend to instinctively grab at something they drop, and they'll often catch the trigger. However, the best way to prevent mishaps of any sort is to practice, a lot. Also, while not idea for HD, it's also easily preventable by not keeping a round in the chamber.

I do agree that "newer" handguns are a better choice for HD, soley for the hollow point issue. IIRC, some newer guns (I'm looking at you Kel-Tec) don't always feed hollow points reliably either, but it can normally be fixed by buffing the feed ramp.


choosing a handgun for home defense, primary concern should be ease of firing. If you never plan on taking it out of the house, don't cut it down until you can't handle the thing. Second should be reliability. H&K has made a ton of money because when you pull the trigger on an H&K, it says "Bang!" every time. When someone is kicking in your door at night, you want your gun to say "bang!" too. If you do drop it, you don't want it to hit the floor and go off pointed at the bedroom where you just left your wife. I'm sure you probably understand a lot of that stuff, tho.

H&K makes a ton of money because they don't like selling to the civilian market and special forces used the MP-5 for awhile. They do make good guns, but most newer guns will go bang every time just as good as the H&Ks, and they're loads cheaper too.


I think the 12ga. would be best too. My dad has a 12ga. that he cut down himself to exactly legal length. When you pull the trigger, it makes a tremendous bang and shoots out a blast of flame. But it's actually pretty easy to shoot even without the stock. Now, he and I are both big guys, but if you pick the right gun (not just caliber, not just manufacturer, but specific weapon) you can get a 12ga. that won't cause even a smaller person trouble.

Yeah, when I took my hunters safety course I was dissapointed in their shotguns. I didn't check what make it was, but they were pretty light on the recoil. For reference, I've got an old Remington model 11. Speaking of, I just found the non-fowl barrel for the thing, so I'm gonna have to give that a go next time we're out (I may have to post pics of the difference in length...it doesn't look like the same gun).


Last of all, I want to go back to the gun-proofed kids thing. Yes, your kids may be gun-proofed. But what about their friends? You never know when a kid might wander into a room and open up a drawer.

Well, that can certainly be a problem; which is why I'm all for all kids being gun-proofed. However, since other people can have problems with it, an easier solution may be to do what my parents did (back before we had guns in the house), and make it clear that no friends are to go into their room, ever.

[SurlySeraph]

Second should be reliability. H&K has made a ton of money because when you pull the trigger on an H&K, it says "Bang!" every time. When someone is kicking in your door at night, you want your gun to say "bang!" too. If you do drop it, you don't want it to hit the floor and go off pointed at the bedroom where you just left your wife. I'm sure you probably understand a lot of that stuff, tho.

That reminds me of a couple articles I just read, on Glocks (http://theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=40) and Springfield Armory XDs (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php). I had no idea anything could be that reliable.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I think keeping a round in the chamber is going too far, even for home defense, unless maybe you live in the same building as people you don't trust. The risks outweigh the benefits. On the other hand, if your kids are well-educated and trustoworthy, I don't think you have to completely lock up the firearm in one place and lock up the ammo in another place. Personally I plan on keeping a full magazine in the same place as the weapon where I can shove it in and charge the weapon once in a matter of seconds, which I think would be plenty fast if, say, I woke up hearing someone break the glass on a door or window in my house.

I was just admiring that Croatian XD myself on the internet yesterday. IF I don't buy my relative's weapon, I'd definitely consider that one.

[reorith]

for the low price of something low bonecrusher doc, you can hire me to

protect your family
watch your kids
other household tasks


you'll be the envy of the neighbors with your own "personal security consultant"

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Somehow I think my wife would object to that even more than my spending the extra $150 for the Mossberg 500.