ITT we risk Aphrodite's wrath

[Arros Winhadren]

In earlier editions of D&D (AD&D) a character unfavorably comparing Aphrodite's charm to theirs would risk a 10% chance of her hearing them and then seeking vengeance on the offender. What sort of fun ways can you trick NPCs (or players) into offending the vain goddess?

"I dare you to say you're prettier than Aphrodite ten times"

If only every god was so much fun.

[Kyace]

There is a feat or two that increases the enchantment bonuses to stats for spells. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a build to take a Cha 18 human above Aphrodite's Cha relatively easily.

Edit: Hmm, maybe not. Don't see any Owl's Insight type spell for Charisma.

[Zeful]

There is a feat or two that increases the enchantment bonuses to stats for spells. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a build to take a Cha 18 human above Aphrodite's Cha relatively easily.

Edit: Hmm, maybe not. Don't see any Owl's Insight type spell for Charisma.

Eagle's Splendor

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There is a feat or two that increases the enchantment bonuses to stats for spells. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a build to take a Cha 18 human above Aphrodite's Cha relatively easily.

Edit: Hmm, maybe not. Don't see any Owl's Insight type spell for Charisma.Eagle's Splendor. Let's see about the build...not knowing her stats, this is what I can do without LA. 18(starting)+5(level)+6(enhancement)+5(Insight)+2( Half-Elf Paragon)+2(Human Paragon)+1(Bloodline)+3(age). You can boost checks far above that, but that's the easiest. 42 so far, using only the SRD(the same as the +222 diplomacy build).:smallbiggrin:

[Lemur]

People have found ways to pump Str and Con, but I don't know about charisma. Maybe there's not as much motivation for it, but there also aren't quite as many options out there.

It would make an interesting challenge. Who can get 50+ charisma on their character, pre-epic (and no Pun-Pun)?

[BobVosh]

Level 1 Kobold fallen paladins can be prettier than Aphrodite >.>

[Kyace]

Owl's Insight is not the same spell as Owl's Wisdom. :P
Owl's Insight is a druid spell in SpC that grants an insight bonus to Wisdom that scales with caster level.

[Enlong]

In earlier editions of D&D (AD&D) a character unfavorably comparing Aphrodite's charm to theirs would risk a 10% chance of her hearing them and then seeking vengeance on the offender. What sort of fun ways can you trick NPCs (or players) into offending the vain goddess?

"I dare you to say you're prettier than Aphrodite ten times"

If only every god was so much fun.
Truthfully, that's still not a 100% chance. Every time is a 10% chance, like how you're not guaranteed to roll a natural 20 at least once if you roll a d20 20 times.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Truthfully, that's still not a 100% chance. Every time is a 10% chance, like how you're not guaranteed to roll a natural 20 at least once if you roll a d20 20 times.It's less than 33%, which is worse odds than I want to take with a goddess.

[Enlong]

It's less than 33%, which is worse odds than I want to take with a goddess.

Wait. I got confused there. You mean the odds are still high enough that, considering this is a goddess, you wouldn't take them, or that there are worse odds that you would take to risk a goddess' wrath?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wait. I got confused there. You mean the odds are still high enough that, considering this is a goddess, you wouldn't take them, or that there are worse odds that you would take to risk a goddess' wrath?My luck? I wouldn't take a 50% chance most of the time.

[Enlong]

My luck? I wouldn't take a 50% chance most of the time.

Arg. So are you saying you would take the 33% chance, or you wouldn't?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Arg. So are you saying you would take the 33% chance, or you wouldn't?Wouldn't. Keep in mind that I'm saying that after 10 rolls you only have a 33% chance of not having attracted her attention.

[Enlong]

Wouldn't. Keep in mind that I'm saying that after 10 rolls you only have a 33% chance of not having attracted her attention.

Oh, I thought you were saying it was a 33% chance of attracting her attention.

[Arros Winhadren]

Of course it's not a 100% chance - there's not guarantee that it would ever work. But 10 times is good enough. And what's up with the character build idea? Where did that come from? The point is not to make someone prettier than Aphrodite (only in 3.5 would this come up), but to convince someone else to proclaim that they are. Oh well, guess it wasn't an interesting topic anyway.

[Lemur]

Of course it's not a 100% chance - there's not guarantee that it would ever work. But 10 times is good enough. And what's up with the character build idea? Where did that come from? The point is not to make someone prettier than Aphrodite (only in 3.5 would this come up), but to convince someone else to proclaim that they are. Oh well, guess it wasn't an interesting topic anyway.

Hey, you have to admit that Aphrodite would probably get pissed at someone more beautiful than her.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Of course it's not a 100% chance - there's not guarantee that it would ever work. But 10 times is good enough. And what's up with the character build idea? Where did that come from? The point is not to make someone prettier than Aphrodite (only in 3.5 would this come up), but to convince someone else to proclaim that they are. Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful? And I'm only 5 points short right now, so it is possible.

[Enlong]

Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful? And I'm only 5 points short right now, so it is possible.

If she's vain enough to come down to Earth and personally smite roughly 10% of all the people who make that claim, even in jest? I think she doesn't need a justification.

Also, even worse. The L.O.P.

[BobVosh]

Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful? And I'm only 5 points short right now, so it is possible.

Ya. In 3rd edition. AD&D (which is what the smiting thing comes from) is a lot harder to get a stat that high. Try to get a 28 charisma in second edition.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful? And I'm only 5 points short right now, so it is possible.I'd think that Aphrodite would have a 100% chance of smiting someone more beautiful than her, even if that someone doesn't say anything.

[Zeful]

I'd think that Aphrodite would have a 100% chance of smiting someone more beautiful than her, even if that someone doesn't say anything.

Nah, she'd just take your beauty for herself.

Interestingly, could we get a half-orc more beautiful than Aphrodite?

[The_Snark]

Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful?

Frankly, it seems more likely to happen if you're being truthful. If we're going by her mythological portrayal, that is, and not the Chaotic Good alignment most D&D books give her. Greek deities don't fit all that well into the alignment system.

[Tempest Fennac]

What exactly does she do to people who say they are more attractive then her?

[Enlong]

Frankly, it seems more likely to happen if you're being truthful. If we're going by her mythological portrayal, that is, and not the Chaotic Good alignment most D&D books give her. Greek deities don't fit all that well into the alignment system.

Yeah, frankly, most of them fall into: Lawful when I feel like it/*****le

[Arros Winhadren]

I'd agree, Aphrodite would kill anyone who became more beautiful than her, and if they concentrated on their Charisma so much and not their combat capabilities she could probably manage it.

That gives me a great idea for a cursed item. It makes you insanely beautiful, but also garners the jealous attention of Aphrodite. Keep in mind though, that Charisma does not determine physical attractiveness in AD&D - that's what Comeliness is for.

[Enlong]

I'd agree, Aphrodite would kill anyone who became more beautiful than her, and if they concentrated on their Charisma so much and not their combat capabilities she could probably manage it.

That gives me a great idea for a cursed item. It makes you insanely beautiful, but also garners the jealous attention of Aphrodite. Keep in mind though, that Charisma does not determine physical attractiveness in AD&D - that's what Comeliness is for.

But force of personality falls under Pulchritude, so where does that leave Charisma?

[BobVosh]

Frankly, it seems more likely to happen if you're being truthful. If we're going by her mythological portrayal, that is, and not the Chaotic Good alignment most D&D books give her. Greek deities don't fit all that well into the alignment system.

Bah, it is easy. CN. All of em.


I'd agree, Aphrodite would kill anyone who became more beautiful than her, and if they concentrated on their Charisma so much and not their combat capabilities she could probably manage it.

That gives me a great idea for a cursed item. It makes you insanely beautiful, but also garners the jealous attention of Aphrodite. Keep in mind though, that Charisma does not determine physical attractiveness in AD&D - that's what Comeliness is for.

Touche. Forgot about that. It is EVEN HARDER to raise comeliness in 2nd ed than any other stat.

[Kurald Galain]

Can she really justify Smiting you if you are being truthful?
She's a Greek goddess, so the answer is "yeah, absolutely".


I'd agree, Aphrodite would kill anyone who became more beautiful than her,
No, probably not. Greek deities are all about ironic punishment. Like turning people into spiders, that sort of thing.

Have you heard the story of Arachne? She was this Greek woman who claimed she could weave better than Pallas Athena. And the two held a contest, and Arachne won - so Athena destroyed her loom and turned the girl into a spider.

Anyway, this is Second Edition we're talking about, not third - that means that stats are capped at 25, and of course Aphrodite has a charisma of 25; so you can match but never top her (and one way to do that would be to cast lots 'n lots of Wish spells).

[Tempest Fennac]

I thought she turned Arachne into a spider because she was making a tapestry which insulted the gods? I think it went to a no contest at that point.

[potatocubed]

Nope. Weaving contest. Athena felt kind of guilty for laying divine wrath on Arachne when all she did was win, so - instead of, you know, changing her back into a person - she gave spiders the ability to weave better than anyone else.

[BobVosh]

Nope. Weaving contest. Athena felt kind of guilty for laying divine wrath on Arachne when all she did was win, so - instead of, you know, changing her back into a person - she gave spiders the ability to weave better than anyone else.

Man Greek Gods were awesomes. *****, yes, but awesome.

[Tempest Fennac]

I never knew about the last bit of that story. I'd put most of those gods as CN as well to be honest.

[Kurald Galain]

instead of, you know, changing her back into a person

One common theme in Greek mythology is that divine changes cannot be undone, like, ever. For instance, one of Zeus's (many) lovers was struck blind by his jealous wife, Hera; even though Zeus is supposedly the supreme god, he's unable to restore her sight, so he gives her the gift of foresight instead. Voila, one blind seer. Older than dirt, and all that.

[kamikasei]

I thought she turned Arachne into a spider because she was making a tapestry which insulted the gods? I think it went to a no contest at that point.

I'm pretty sure it was both. Arachne was outweaving Athena, which was annoying, but it was when Athena saw that her tapestry was a highlight reel of the gods' worst and most embarrassing moments that she flew into a rage.

[potatocubed]

Yeah, I think the sheer audacity of the Greek pantheon is what makes their stories so much fun. I think they were more intended as cautionary tales than encouragements to worship; "don't strut about going on about how smexy you are or Aphrodite will mess you up" sort of thing.

The Vikings and Egyptians have some good myths, too:

"I have this magic sword that will be instrumental in the defeat of evil at Ragnarok. Without it, we may all be doomed. I know, I'll trade it for a woman!"

EDIT: Much as I love mythology, I'm no expert. I just tell the stories I remember as the most entertaining.

[Paramour Pink]

Check out Book of Exalted Deeds. The gods can send plagues and stronger clones of yourself after you if you piss them off. And that's on top of anything else a DM might decide to do for the fun of it. :smalleek:

[Tempest Fennac]

That sounds like another reason for me to hate BoED.:smalltongue: (I never saw that part). I know the Viking dieties were like the Greek ones in the sense that they were often highly flawed.

[Hannibal]

That sounds like another reason for me to hate BoED.:smalltongue: (I never saw that part). I know the Viking dieties were like the Greek ones in the sense that they were often highly flawed.

People create their deities in their own image, after all.

[Enlong]

I'm pretty sure it was both. Arachne was outweaving Athena, which was annoying, but it was when Athena saw that her tapestry was a highlight reel of the gods' worst and most embarrassing moments that she flew into a rage.

I thought she was making a tapestry that painted a beautifully terrible image of the future, the roads became spikes, humans building a tower so horrible that they had to avert their eyes as they built it, etc.

Or I could be talking out my bellybutton on this one.

[Tempest Fennac]

I think one of Zeus' affairs was one of the depictions. That's an interresting way of looking at it, Hannibal.

[Arros Winhadren]

A good way of viewing the gods (especially the Greek ones) are not as personalities but as elemental forces. They just did stuff, often for lame reasons. The myths come from an attempt to explain the world around us, and thus when a child asks why spiders are so good at weaving, Mommy can answer with the story of Arachne.

[John Campbell]

I'm pretty sure it was both. Arachne was outweaving Athena, which was annoying, but it was when Athena saw that her tapestry was a highlight reel of the gods' worst and most embarrassing moments that she flew into a rage.

Yeah. And the best part was, Arachne was only depicting the truth. In an unflattering light, yes, but still no less than the truth.

And Athena's one of the more benevolent and level-headed deities in the Olympian pantheon.

[Enlong]

Yeah. And the best part was, Arachne was only depicting the truth. In an unflattering light, yes, but still no less than the truth.

And Athena's one of the more benevolent and level-headed deities in the Olympian pantheon.
She's also pretty darn screwed up herself, though.

Fact: She chose Hephaestus as her husband because he'd be the easiest to cheat on.
Fact 2: She was born from... actually, not sure I can describe that here.

[Kurald Galain]

Fact: She chose Hephaestus as her husband because he'd be the easiest to cheat on.
According to my sources, she either was ordered to marry him by Zeus, either in exchange for the release of Hera, whom Hephaestus had kidnapped, or because he was considered the most stable partner and Zeus didn't want the other gods quarreling over her.


Fact 2: She was born from... actually, not sure I can describe that here.
From the sea, to be exact (the indescribable part is that this happened because certain parts of Uranus's body were cut off and landed in the sea...)

[Mr.Bookworm]

Check out Book of Exalted Deeds. The gods can send plagues and stronger clones of yourself after you if you piss them off. And that's on top of anything else a DM might decide to do for the fun of it. :smalleek:

I always thought of Aleaxes and the Divine Wrath swarms as what the DM can show menancingly to his players if they start getting uppity. (With the Aleax, by RAW, you can have a CR 4 creature that can Shapechange at will as a 20th level caster.)

Me personally, I put most Greek gods as Chaotic Evil, some of the nicer ones as Chaotic Neutral. By and large, they were total ***** to everyone.

[Another_Poet]

What sort of fun ways can you trick NPCs (or players) into offending the vain goddess?

I'd think one of the surest ways would be to call her "vain".

:smallsmile:

ap

[Enlong]

According to my sources, she either was ordered to marry him by Zeus, either in exchange for the release of Hera, whom Hephaestus had kidnapped, or because he was considered the most stable partner and Zeus didn't want the other gods quarreling over her.
Well, in any case, she was excited by the marriage for the reason I said.

Heck, if I remember correctly, he tried to punish her once by using enchanted ropes to literally catch her and Hermes in the act, but she liked it. The Greek pantheon is really messed up, man.

[Juhn]

"And Athena's one of the more benevolent and level-headed deities in the Olympian pantheon."

"She's also pretty darn screwed up herself, though.

Fact: She chose Hephaestus as her husband because he'd be the easiest to cheat on.
Fact 2: She was born from... actually, not sure I can describe that here."

That'd be Aphrodite, Enlong, not Athena.


Heck, if I remember correctly, he tried to punish her once by using enchanted ropes to literally catch her and Hermes in the act, but she liked it. The Greek pantheon is really messed up, man.

Assuming you're still talking Aphrodite here, you're surprised that the goddess of physical passions - essentially lust incarnate - is rather kinky?

[Enlong]

"And Athena's one of the more benevolent and level-headed deities in the Olympian pantheon."

"She's also pretty darn screwed up herself, though.

Fact: She chose Hephaestus as her husband because he'd be the easiest to cheat on.
Fact 2: She was born from... actually, not sure I can describe that here."

That'd be Aphrodite, Enlong, not Athena.

I thought he was talking about Aphrodite.



Assuming you're still talking Aphrodite here, you're surprised that the goddess of physical passions - essentially lust incarnate - is rather kinky?

No, no I'm not. Not at all.

[Juhn]

Well, the original topic of discussion was Aphrodite, but then that whole Arachne business switched the relevant goddess to Athena, and now it seems we're back to Aphrodite again.

Too many A names.

[T-O-E]

I thought she turned Arachne into a spider because she was making a tapestry which insulted the gods? I think it went to a no contest at that point.

There are variations of every myth.

[Kurald Galain]

Heck, if I remember correctly, he tried to punish her once by using enchanted ropes to literally catch her and Hermes in the act, but she liked it. The Greek pantheon is really messed up, man.

And that would be Ares, not Hermes. Yep, it's another A name.

[AdamSmasher]

Check out Book of Exalted Deeds. The gods can send plagues and stronger clones of yourself after you if you piss them off. And that's on top of anything else a DM might decide to do for the fun of it. :smalleek:

Speaking of that thing...

Has anyone read the entry about the brass locust swarm or whatever it is? It contains a story about a general who was defeated by evil, so a GOOD DEITY sent the swarms down to devour the FALLEN WARRIOR'S CHILDREN alive. ALIVE.

And the book of exalted deeds says it's EVIL to raise one zombie, even if you did it specifically to save every last good being in existance (and succeeded).

Mixed messages ftw.

[lisiecki]

If she's vain enough to come down to Earth and personally smite roughly 10% of all the people who make that claim, even in jest? I think she doesn't need a justification.

Also, even worse. The L.O.P.

Well Aphrodite got pissed off when people thought Helen was hotter than her...
So im going with yes

[Tacoma]

Touche. Forgot about that. It is EVEN HARDER to raise comeliness in 2nd ed than any other stat.


Actually it's the easiest to get very high.

In Unearthed Arcana, where it appears, Grey Elves get +2 to COM straight off. And if your CHA is high you get a large modifier to COM, such that if you started with a Grey Elf with 18 in both CHA and COM (possible though still unlikely for some in UA because of its rolling method) you'd immediately have 18 CHA / 20 COM from race and (I believe) 18 CHA gives you +4 COM. So you'd be at 24 at first level.

After that, good luck. If I recall, no magic items raise COM. I think if you raise CHA you get a similar automatic raise to COM but I'm not sure about that.

That said, a Girdle of Storm Giant Strength could raise your STR to 24. If you used that with Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Hammer of Thunderbolts (which is the only weapon with which you can use both items together) you could eke out a huge attack and damage bonus. But your STR would still be no higher than 24. Plus that Girdle is so expensive.

[Tempest Fennac]

I didn't see the bit in BoED about the locusts. Why did the "good" god do that? (This is why I bar BoED and BoVD from mygames.)