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lisiecki
2008-12-09, 06:00 AM
So, Im starting a new M&M game this saturday, playing an invenotor who has already survived multiple time periods. This will be his earliest yet, takeing place in the 1930's.
The GM has offered me two choices
1) Be a "Realistic" inventor, such as Ford or Edison and be limited to "realistic" weapons and gear of the time
OR
2) play as a super scientist, in the Luthor of Stark vein.

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

The PC's seem to lack any weapons at all that require Will Saves.
So im wondering, what is a weapon that exist in the 1930's and be fairly "realistic"

BardicDuelist
2008-12-09, 06:07 AM
So, Im starting a new M&M game this saturday, playing an invenotor who has already survived multiple time periods. This will be his earliest yet, takeing place in the 1930's.
The GM has offered me two choices
1) Be a "Realistic" inventor, such as Ford or Edison and be limited to "realistic" weapons and gear of the time
OR
2) play as a super scientist, in the Luthor of Stark vein.

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

The PC's seem to lack any weapons at all that require Will Saves.
So im wondering, what is a weapon that exist in the 1930's and be fairly "realistic"

Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

BobVosh
2008-12-09, 06:13 AM
Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

Hmm. *Insert your least favorite song* Ya, that will drive anyone crazy. Man is it terrible.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 06:14 AM
Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

The only thing I've been able to think of is some sort of psychoactive drug loaded in to a dart gun type weapon, and even that seems like it would be more of a fort save

BardicDuelist
2008-12-09, 06:23 AM
The only thing I've been able to think of is some sort of psychoactive drug loaded in to a dart gun type weapon, and even that seems like it would be more of a fort save

That's what I mean. There really isn't a reason for a will save in a realistic game, unless you get into brain washing, but that takes far too long to be used as a weapon, and will often be portrayed unrealistically anyway.

Will saves in M&M are for "psycic" powers, weapons, magic, etc. If you have to be realistic, then you won't have any.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 06:25 AM
That's what I mean. There really isn't a reason for a will save in a realistic game, unless you get into brain washing, but that takes far too long to be used as a weapon, and will often be portrayed unrealistically anyway.

Will saves in M&M are for "psycic" powers, weapons, magic, etc. If you have to be realistic, then you won't have any.

Eh, Ill Just do my best to convince the other PC's to take them

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 06:59 AM
Hmm. *Insert your least favorite song* Ya, that will drive anyone crazy. Man is it terrible.

Hmmm that would make a good version for Stun

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 07:36 AM
OH OH OH OH!!!!

Ok im watching 24
dose , Hyoscine-pentothal have any basis in real life?
Even a lil?

Learnedguy
2008-12-09, 07:37 AM
Oh, I know!

That stuff they use on Batman in Batman Begins!

Oracle_Hunter
2008-12-09, 07:39 AM
Hypnotism!

Remember that, in the late 19th century and early 20th, there was a resurgence in the study of various mystic practices. Why not have your Mad Scientist take an interest in these studies, but only to distill the Science that must be behind them.

If you want to keep things as devices, rather than pure hypnotic techniques, then make for some Sonic Guns that emit tones which can induce auto-hypnosis in certain susceptible people, causing them to enter an altered state.

You can also use colors, rhythmic noises, and so on, if sound isn't to your liking :smallbiggrin:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-09, 07:45 AM
OH OH OH OH!!!!

Ok im watching 24
dose , Hyoscine-pentothal have any basis in real life?
Even a lil?

It's a fictional drug almost certainly based on sodium thiopental (or Sodium Pentothal, a brand name for the stuff). That's definitely a Fort effect, though, since it's a drug, and what it actually does is decrease your brain function (being a barbiturate), which makes you likely to babble. The exact same drug is used for euthanasia and lethal injection - the victim is placed in a coma which leads to death.

The 24 version just causes pain. That's a Fort effect again, pretty much. Resisting the torture associated would be a separate Intimidate vs. Will deal.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 07:51 AM
It's a fictional drug almost certainly based on sodium thiopental (or Sodium Pentothal, a brand name for the stuff). That's definitely a Fort effect, though, since it's a drug, and what it actually does is decrease your brain function (being a barbiturate), which makes you likely to babble. The exact same drug is used for euthanasia and lethal injection - the victim is placed in a coma which leads to death.

The 24 version just causes pain. That's a Fort effect again, pretty much. Resisting the torture associated would be a separate Intimidate vs. Will deal.

Maybe I can convince the GM that the PC has created a drug that causes pain that is purely mental, causing parts of the brain to misfire and such, not actually causing any damage to the target on a physical level.

If not the Fear gas and Hypnotism ideas are both pretty solid

Jalor
2008-12-09, 08:00 AM
Darts tipped with a chemical inducing psychological catharsis? The drug itself would take maybe a difficult Fort save, but it would then force Will saves.

Knaight
2008-12-09, 08:05 AM
Hypnotism is probably your best bet, just because pulling out a pendulum with a spinning circle on it that hums a hypnotic tune is so awesome.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 08:28 AM
Hypnotism is probably your best bet, just because pulling out a pendulum with a spinning circle on it that hums a hypnotic tune is so awesome.

It dose sound pretty cool, but i'm not sure how "Real" he wants the science to sound. I cant bring my self to say IS real, but SOUNDS real.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-09, 08:47 AM
Maybe I can convince the GM that the PC has created a drug that causes pain that is purely mental, causing parts of the brain to misfire and such, not actually causing any damage to the target on a physical level.

If not the Fear gas and Hypnotism ideas are both pretty solid

The thing is, any physical agent would probably be less effective on someone who is healthy and resistant - poisons and drugs are pretty clearly Fort effects. "Purely mental" pain would probably be a psychic attack.

Why is your GM such a ****, anyway? And why do you care if you are as important a target as the rest of the party? If you're as powerful as they are, you're as enticing a target in any fight. If you're less powerful, you're less of a target. "Realistic superhero" is an oxymoron.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 09:01 AM
The thing is, any physical agent would probably be less effective on someone who is healthy and resistant - poisons and drugs are pretty clearly Fort effects. "Purely mental" pain would probably be a psychic attack.

You really do have a point there.


Why is your GM such a ****, anyway?

Acually i really like the GM, the only one ive ever really trusted, he runs one heck of a game, and im looking foward to seeing where hes going with this



And why do you care if you are as important a target as the rest of the party? If you're as powerful as they are, you're as enticing a target in any fight.

Typically i would aggree, but he told us part of the plot worked off this point. As every one else wanted to play more obvious nonhuman characters, I would like to try this route to explore that plot.



If you're less powerful, you're less of a target. "Realistic superhero" is an oxymoron.


Its a setting where the change between regular history, and the history of the setting changed in the last month.
Like i said, hes a good GM and im honestly looking forward to where hes going with it

Tengu_temp
2008-12-09, 09:23 AM
Why is your GM such a ****, anyway?

...What? I've read the OP three times and can't find a single example of the GM's dickery.

As for the actual idea, I suggest some sort of psychotropic gas. Will save is required to ignore the hallucinations it causes.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 09:29 AM
...What? I've read the OP three times and can't find a single example of the GM's dickery.

As for the actual idea, I suggest some sort of psychotropic gas. Will save is required to ignore the hallucinations it causes.

Ya I'm lost on that as well.
Im actually quite fond of the GM and i think this is an interesting idea, the difference between a scientist and a super scientist in the same setting.

the reason im here asking, is because i know NOTHING about modern weapons. Or i guess it would be better to say ANY weapons after the start to the civil war.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-09, 09:38 AM
This bit:


He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

Singling out a character as a target for absolutely no reason? Yeah, that's being a ****.

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 09:56 AM
This bit:



Singling out a character as a target for absolutely no reason? Yeah, that's being a ****.

Oh sorry, perhaps i put the wrong inflection on it.
There are currently 4 characters
My self
A Sentient Dust Cloud
A Super Plague Dog
and well, the last player is basically an Orc

The game takes place in 1930's Midwest, its time line and ours diverged a month or two ago game wise.
From what the GM has told us, the various SuperPowered PC's and NPC's have a Highlander type ability to know where one another are when there near one another.
So if the bad guy of the week is fighting the party, its reasonable that the would go after the dustman, the plague zombie, or the giant with a stick, before they go after a guy with a sub machine gun.

However the most interesting part about this for me personally will be seeing how the setting is different for those super powered individuals, than it is for a non super powered character

BardicDuelist
2008-12-09, 10:07 AM
Saying hypnosis, or hypnosis machines are "realistic" is pretty far fetched. The machine part would be super-science in my book, and the actual hypnosis part (my father being a professional magician and myself knowing several "hypnotists") is, as Penn and Teller put it, Bull $#!^.

Now, with the setting, it would be very thematic.

Dublock
2008-12-09, 10:28 AM
He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters. "

Thats not a sign of a bad GM, but one that tells people what will happen if they choose that type of character before the game starts. If he didn't give an advance warning and then focused on the super scientest, then I'll understand being mad at the GM.

If the science doesn't have to be super realistic, how about a weapon that tricks the mind into thinking its in pain. The pain could inflict hp damage and fear effects, which would be a will save.

Storm Bringer
2008-12-09, 10:48 AM
I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

1) ultrasonic emmiter, whoose focused sound waves hamper concentration and prevent a traget focusing properly (ie, suffer penalties on rolls)

2) a highly modified projection system that displays a series of patterns and colour mixes that induces voilent nuesea an voimiting in the viewer. Can be set to focus the projection over a smallish arc, like, say, a single person viewpoint. (will save or lose an action due to vomiting etc)

3)a carefully modulated electric shock, delivered vai joker style hand buzzer or by a club of some sort, that can cause short term distruption of the nervous system (touch attack, save or suffer paralasis/attack penalties)

4) a very high powered flashbulb system, used as a blinding attack.

5) directional speaker system that emits a specific set of frquences that can override consious control and give directions to the body (ie. Mind Control, via a audio medium)

5) a variant of number 4, instead of a single bright flash, this system is a series of less powerful flashes that are designed to draw attention to the emmiter, which is disposeable, and thrown to draw fire (ie will save or waste attacks on a decoy).


how do those sound for a few fairly 30's gadget ideas?

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 10:53 AM
Thats not a sign of a bad GM, but one that tells people what will happen if they choose that type of character before the game starts. If he didn't give an advance warning and then focused on the super scientest, then I'll understand being mad at the GM.

If the science doesn't have to be super realistic, how about a weapon that tricks the mind into thinking its in pain. The pain could inflict hp damage and fear effects, which would be a will save.

That's the way i see it.
If i go with normal science, I'm limited to Feats, Skills, Equipment and Devices. (Inventions equal to things that could be invented from the mid30's to the mid40's)
The up side to this, is that hes still a normal human being. If things get to hairy, then he can put his device down and blend in to the crowd.

The characters with actual superpowers, (including SUPER science) then the characters are distinct from humanity. In this game there going to have more Mojo in them, or what ever it is that makes them super.
Having SciFi technology, or more accurate the brain required to build those things, would mark the character in the same way that the Dust Man and the Plague Zombie are distinct from the rest of humanity.


I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

Actually, those are all really cool...
Between your ideas, and the fear cloud idea, there are some VERY soild ideas for how to keep him in the relm of "normal" science for quite a while
:)

Dervag
2008-12-09, 11:28 AM
That's the way i see it.
If i go with normal science, I'm limited to Feats, Skills, Equipment and Devices. (Inventions equal to things that could be invented from the mid30's to the mid40's)
The up side to this, is that hes still a normal human being. If things get to hairy, then he can put his device down and blend in to the crowd.

The characters with actual superpowers, (including SUPER science) then the characters are distinct from humanity. In this game there going to have more Mojo in them, or what ever it is that makes them super.
Having SciFi technology, or more accurate the brain required to build those things, would mark the character in the same way that the Dust Man and the Plague Zombie are distinct from the rest of humanity.Yeah. I can see this. It's like the distinction between being a "Badass Normal" superhero and a superhero with actual superpowers. Superman is much more powerful than Batman physically, but the downside is that he draws more attention from stronger enemies. And that he can't use his abilities without drawing attention.

Fair enough.

Anyway, to answer your original question, the best I can think of is the same general category other people are talking about- weapons that disorient using light and sound. Being physically tough and fast doesn't protect you from a flashbang or from one of those sonic weapons they're working on now. You know, like this one (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2005-11-07-cruise-blast_x.htm).

Of course, that's a modern device, but it's at least plausible that a brilliant 1930s-era scientist could invent such a thing without using transistors. However, no such thing actually existed to the best of my knowledge.



Actually, those are all really cool...
Between your ideas, and the fear cloud idea, there are some VERY soild ideas for how to keep him in the relm of "normal" science for quite a while
:)[/QUOTE]

Sergeantbrother
2008-12-09, 12:02 PM
Come on guys, in real life people are required to make Willpower saves all the freaking time!

I mean, when you're being pinned by gunfire you make a Willpower save to move, when you see a ghastly murder scene you make a Willpower save to retain your composure, when a sexy member of the opposite sex seduces you you make a Willpower save to resist, when the bad guys capture you and start using torture to get information you take a Willpower save to resist, you take Willpower saves to resist becoming addicted to drugs or taking drugs you're already addicted to, you take a Willpower save to to fall to pieces when a loved one dies, you take a Willpower save to stay up all night working on an important project, you make a Willpower save to resist agonizing pain, you make a Willpower save to grab the secret documents out of the fire before they burn up, you take a Willpower save to resist anything that is terrifying and scary.

People use there willpower in real life, probably more than reflexes or fortitude. If you want Willpower saves to be meaningful make people take them for the same things that people use willpower for in real life.

Asbestos
2008-12-09, 12:08 PM
I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

1) ultrasonic emmiter, whoose focused sound waves hamper concentration and prevent a traget focusing properly (ie, suffer penalties on rolls)

2) a highly modified projection system that displays a series of patterns and colour mixes that induces voilent nuesea an voimiting in the viewer. Can be set to focus the projection over a smallish arc, like, say, a single person viewpoint. (will save or lose an action due to vomiting etc)

3)a carefully modulated electric shock, delivered vai joker style hand buzzer or by a club of some sort, that can cause short term distruption of the nervous system (touch attack, save or suffer paralasis/attack penalties)

4) a very high powered flashbulb system, used as a blinding attack.

5) directional speaker system that emits a specific set of frquences that can override consious control and give directions to the body (ie. Mind Control, via a audio medium)

5) a variant of number 4, instead of a single bright flash, this system is a series of less powerful flashes that are designed to draw attention to the emmiter, which is disposeable, and thrown to draw fire (ie will save or waste attacks on a decoy).


how do those sound for a few fairly 30's gadget ideas?

Number 2 is exactly what I was thinking of. Your scientist has found a way to illicit seizures, even in non-epileptic subjects, via some crazy light/color/sound effects. Purely mental, most plausible weapon so far that requires a Will save. Number 1 is pretty good stuff too (so is 6) The rest seem fort/reflexy (3/4) to me, or too implausible (5)

Fishy
2008-12-09, 12:16 PM
Reading the title of the thread, my first thought was 'Peanut butter M&Ms make me take Will damage...'

Anyway. How about Magnets? There are certain things you can do to a human brain with a powerful enough magnetic field, properly applied. Move some electrons around, and you can induce paranoia, religious fervor, all kinds of stuff. And it wouldn't be -too- far outside the tech level: Tesla was doing some crazy stuff with electromagnetism around that time, and if he hand any training in neurobiology, you know he'd try to build one of those...

Thane of Fife
2008-12-09, 12:23 PM
Not exactly 1930's, but in answer to what kind of weapon requires a Will Save:

This one, perhaps? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,246499,00.html)

lisiecki
2008-12-09, 01:30 PM
Wow, there are some really good ideas here guys and gals, and i really appreachate it.
when i get home from work I'll work out some stats and put them up here :)

The party has also, to man neglected to take any powers that require reflex saves either.

But that ones easy, Giant Glue Cannon


Yep no will saves, no reflex saves, but you know what?

They all have corrosion...

Immutep
2008-12-09, 03:17 PM
Tranquliser gun seem to be the way to go, substitute the tranquiliser (Fort save against sleep effect) with some/one/all of the following.

Cocaine= hallucinationary drug giving the belief that the taker is invulnerable/unkillable

LSD=hallucinatory drug with all manner of effects such as belief that you can fly

Any strong depressant=nuff said

there are many more of these perfectly real options that will affect the targets mind and force a will save to prevent them form attacking a tarrasque with bare fists or jumping off a cliff to escape.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-09, 03:40 PM
Tranquliser gun seem to be the way to go, substitute the tranquiliser (Fort save against sleep effect) with some/one/all of the following.

Cocaine= hallucinationary drug giving the belief that the taker is invulnerable/unkillable

LSD=hallucinatory drug with all manner of effects such as belief that you can fly

Any strong depressant=nuff said

Er, if you're going for realism, you can probably forget that. Drugs do not work like Reefer Madness tells you.

If you're going for 30s pulp "realism", I guess you could just as well add a weapon that blows marijuana smoke at enemies and causes them to kill each other and have irresponsible sex, or something.


Anyway. How about Magnets? There are certain things you can do to a human brain with a powerful enough magnetic field, properly applied. Move some electrons around, and you can induce paranoia, religious fervor, all kinds of stuff. And it wouldn't be -too- far outside the tech level: Tesla was doing some crazy stuff with electromagnetism around that time, and if he hand any training in neurobiology, you know he'd try to build one of those...

This is based on what, exactly? Magnets and the brain is, sorry to say, a load of crap.

Again, if hypnosis and other BS fly as "realistic" (more like "pulp versimilitude"), I guess that would, too, but man...


Come on guys, in real life people are required to make Willpower saves all the freaking time!

Those would be great examples (and remind me a ton of the great CUF/psychological damage system of Twilight 2013), if the topic weren't Mutants & Masterminds attacks that require a Will save. You can't have a power (at least based on realistic technology) that causes enemies to see viscerally terrifying carnage etc.

BizzaroStormy
2008-12-09, 05:41 PM
If you want to hit their will save, then ignore the inventor type of scientist and go with a psychologist. Have him be like Super Freud. Take powers like smotion control and flavor them so they don't seem like superpowers.

tahu88810
2008-12-09, 05:55 PM
I remember an episode of the fringe where a combination of flashing colored lights and sound (I believe it was Red, Green, Green and Beep, Boop, Boop) caused a sort of trance in the individual who is viewing it. While it probably isn't true in real life, you could argue that it is certainly low tech enough to be realistic in a setting like that. May require some leniency, though, on the DM's part.

Knaight
2008-12-09, 06:04 PM
Again, if hypnosis and other BS fly as "realistic" (more like "pulp versimilitude"), I guess that would, too, but man...

Hypnosis can work under certain conditions, although instant unwilling hypnosis is realistically out, and significantly so. While there are any number of fraud hypnotists that can't actually do anything(the magic show kind usually), there are some people who can actually use hypnotism. It takes a lot of time over repeated sessions, and even then has very limited power, but it exists. And we have observed flashing lights causing seizures and such, which could be more will than fortitude.

charl
2008-12-09, 06:23 PM
It has been mentioned, but sound waves. Some inaudible sound waves have been shown to be able to induce nausea in extreme cases. This could easily be made into "realistic" pulp weaponry.

The US Army is experimenting with something that shoots "microwaves" (most likely not actual microwaves, but I can't remember what it was it actually projected). It causes a sensation or burning on the skin. That could qualify.

Drugs is a possibility. While it would probably take a fortitude save to get effected (unless the dose is large enough, realistically speaking you get intoxicated no matter how beefy you are if you take enough of anything, although large doses have a tendency to have harmful effects up to and including death), once you are intoxicated it could require will saves. This is actually a pretty realistic way to show the effects of drugs in D20 terms. It is very much possible to ignore the effects of drugs and temporarily act normal.
Possible drugs for this in the 30s are:
Opiates (morphine and heroin were popular in the 30s) that would decrease the targets strength (muscle relaxing) and aggression, cause nausea and at higher doses knock people out or shut off their lungs (though that would be a fortitude thing).
Cocaine, amphetamine and other stimulants would do the opposite. Increase aggression and strength, probably grant a bonus to will saves too. Not a good drug to use as an offensive weapon unless you want to cause a heart attack which would be a fortitude thing anyway.
Barbiturates and other earlier sedatives available at the time would also cause nausea and act as muscle relaxants. They wouldn't necessarily decrease aggression though.
Someone suggested LSD. That drug wasn't around in the 30s, and even if it was the effects are unpredictable and not actually relaxing, though having your enemies stare at a tree instead of trying to attack you could be beneficial.
Cannabis-related drugs have a similar problem to LSD. They are unpredictable and only slightly relaxing compared to actual sedatives. Not a good choice.
And finally don't forget the mother of all drugs: ethanol, commonly referred to as alcohol. If injected which is your best bet for a combat drug as other methods of ingestion takes time (up to an hour if eaten/drunk, compared to seconds from intravenous injection) to cause effects the target will be sober again in about 30 minutes, but that should be long enough for combat purposes. The effects are widely known but I'll summarize anyway: loss of motor control, nausea, loss of cognitive function, delusions, and finally loss of conciousness. If alcohol could be weaponized it would be deadly effective.

Anyway, uh... This post became a lot longer and branched off much more into drugs than I intended. I'll leave it here for posterity but I do realize it could be a rule violation, in which case I'll happily remove it if a moderator asks.

EDIT: Also, tear gas and pepper spray and other irritants.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-09, 06:25 PM
Hypnosis can work under certain conditions, although instant unwilling hypnosis is realistically out, and significantly so. While there are any number of fraud hypnotists that can't actually do anything(the magic show kind usually), there are some people who can actually use hypnotism. It takes a lot of time over repeated sessions, and even then has very limited power, but it exists. And we have observed flashing lights causing seizures and such, which could be more will than fortitude.

If by "works" you mean "creates a shared fantasy", sure. The best example of what you describe is probably regression therapy (based on one of two inane and incorrect notions - either that we have past lives and can access them in this life, or that the brain somehow "represses" traumatic experiences, but still keeps a perfect audiovisual record of everything and just can't access those repressed memories), in which a stupid or uncaring therapist (unfortunately often a trained psychologist of some stripe) and an uninformed or attention-seeking patient create a mutual fantasy narrative that they convince themselves is true, and then reinforce it endlessly with support groups and attention. It would take a much longer post than I'm willing to write just now to detail everything that's wrong and stupid about this process (and it'd be pretty OT anyway).

Seriously, hypnosis is just telling people what to do and them going along with it, because you've created an environment in which they want to. Can you describe what people, and in which situations, can use hypnosis to achieve anything? It's not the magicians and it's not the hypnotherapists - what other kind of hypnotists are there?

Dervag
2008-12-09, 11:57 PM
Not exactly 1930's, but in answer to what kind of weapon requires a Will Save:

This one, perhaps? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,246499,00.html)Hmm.

You can't ignore the effect by force of will- you really DO feel as if you are on fire. The microwave beam stimulates the same nerve endings that being covered in burning gasoline would.

Also, it's debatable whether this is realistic for the time period- generating a substantial microwave beam requires transistor electronics.

Thane of Fife
2008-12-10, 12:10 AM
You can't ignore the effect by force of will- you really DO feel as if you are on fire. The microwave beam stimulates the same nerve endings that being covered in burning gasoline would.

While a Will Save wouldn't let you not feel the pain, it could be argued that the Will Save would let you avoid jumping out of the way - it could test to see if you can stand the pain, say, in the same way that one might allow a Will Save to resist torture.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-10, 12:12 AM
Might I suggest watching the old Baldwin movie 'The Shadow'?
Even better if you can get a hold of the ancient comics it spawned from.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-12-10, 12:18 AM
I'm still going to go with Hypnotism - we're talking about a period of time of great discovery about the human body. You can make it either light patterns or subsonic tones that provoke certain involuntary responses.

But, if you don't like that, then go with the Phlebotinum Du Jur (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PhlebotinumDuJour) of the era - Electricity.

Put a page out of Nikola Tesla's playbook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Middle_years) and start looking for weird effects produced by electricity and magnetism. For Reflex Weapons, it's obvious (Death Rays!) but for Will effects you can go with a fluctuating magnetic field that can induce disorientation, or somesuch.

Remember that you're dealing with a Could Have Been technology, so go crazy!

lisiecki
2008-12-10, 12:37 AM
If you're going for 30s pulp "realism", I guess you could just as well add a weapon that blows marijuana smoke at enemies and causes them to kill each other and have irresponsible sex, or something.

Ladys and gentlemen, we have a winner

BizzaroStormy
2008-12-10, 12:43 AM
Problem is, that would be a drug effect, and therefore a fort save. i still think my super frued idea is a good one.

Asbestos
2008-12-10, 01:16 AM
There are currently 4 characters
My self
A Sentient Dust Cloud
A Super Plague Dog
and well, the last player is basically an Orc


I find it odd that people are all 'that's not realistic!' as we ramble off hypnotism and magnets as ideas... but don't mention that your party has a sentient dust cloud in it!?! Since its the 1930s I imagine he was formerly an Oakie... perhaps he came across some radiation on his trip to the orange groves of California.

lisiecki
2008-12-10, 01:28 AM
I find it odd that people are all 'that's not realistic!' as we ramble off hypnotism and magnets as ideas... but don't mention that your party has a sentient dust cloud in it!?! Since its the 1930s I imagine he was formerly an Oakie... perhaps he came across some radiation on his trip to the orange groves of California.

Um...
That's actually about what happened... is that you John?

So far the PC's are Actually an Okie who got lost in a Duststrom
A migrant worker who was used for medical experiments
and the unholy love child of Lenny from Of Mice and Men, and an Ork

They've been played by my PC, a veteran of quite a few mutants and masterminds games... although, each game begins a few hundred to a few thousands years before the previous one, to work as bodyguards while he trys to figure out whats going on. And why its cutting in to profits.

My PC is so far going with the "real" science route for the moment, ever since i discovered that i could, in fact, make giant goo launching snare device.

There's also the issue that my GM controlled Sidekick has managed to get a grenade launcher.

Asbestos
2008-12-10, 01:57 AM
Um...
That's actually about what happened... is that you John?



Nope, I just felt it was thematically appropriate.

Thurbane
2008-12-10, 03:10 AM
These might be inspirational:

http://www.brotron.com/gallery/EDR3.html

http://www.brotron.com/gallery/SBHR4.html

http://blog.makezine.com/med_death_ray.jpg

http://www.wetanz.com/holics/raygun-directory.php

Weasel of Doom
2008-12-10, 03:58 AM
I think your character idea would probably be better out of combat with gradual hypnosis and drug therapy to mind control people and implant mental "triggers" so that people you capture have to commit certian acts when a given event occurs but another cool idea would be to search for an image of Langford's Basilisk on google images, not exactly realistic but not too out there and i like the concept

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 03:59 AM
I find it odd that people are all 'that's not realistic!' as we ramble off hypnotism and magnets as ideas... but don't mention that your party has a sentient dust cloud in it!?! Since its the 1930s I imagine he was formerly an Oakie... perhaps he came across some radiation on his trip to the orange groves of California.

The request was for realistic science crap, since - unlike the entire rest of the party - the inventor is, for some reason, supposed to be realistic. I already questioned why that is, but it doesn't change the parameters.


Problem is, that would be a drug effect, and therefore a fort save. i still think my super frued idea is a good one.

Getting high would be Fort; what you do while high is probably Will.

Immutep
2008-12-10, 10:48 AM
Er, if you're going for realism, you can probably forget that. Drugs do not work like Reefer Madness tells you.

What Reefer madness? I'm getting my information based on what peoples real experiences have been, hence me not presenting a really powerfull deppressant by name (as i don't know one) at the end of the day the suggestive influence of powerfull hallucintory drugs is both real and suggestive (will save) so i don't see where you're coming from.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 11:00 AM
What Reefer madness? I'm getting my information based on what peoples real experiences have been, hence me not presenting a really powerfull deppressant by name (as i don't know one) at the end of the day the suggestive influence of powerfull hallucintory drugs is both real and suggestive (will save) so i don't see where you're coming from.

Cocaine is not a hallucinatory drug, it's an opiate - a narcotic. It does not cause delusions or hallucinations of any sort. The only prominent mental effects are paranoia and depression resulting from long-term use.

charl
2008-12-10, 11:06 AM
Cocaine is not a hallucinatory drug, it's an opiate - a narcotic. It does not cause delusions or hallucinations of any sort. The only prominent mental effects are paranoia and depression resulting from long-term use.

Cocaine is NOT an opiate (nor a hallucinogen). Opiates are drugs derived from the opium poppy. They are all true narcotics: sedative and pain relieving.

Cocaine on the other hand is a powerful stimulant. The effects are closer to that of amphetamines (including meth) and coffee than to opiates, though cocaine has a very short effect for being a stimulant. It wakes you up and makes you feel like you are the king of the world for a short while.

It CAN cause hallucinations, if it's used to sustain a prolonged period of sleep deprivation. The effects of abstaining from the drug when addicted can also cause mild hallucinations.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 11:12 AM
****, yeah, narcotic, not opiate. Got me there.

I'm inclined to suspect that it's not cocaine causing those hallucinations, though, but the sleep deprivation. They'd probably result with caffeine, too. (In fact, there's some wicked - if somewhat pathetic - caffeine trip reports on lycaeum.org)

charl
2008-12-10, 11:16 AM
****, yeah, narcotic, not opiate. Got me there.

I'm inclined to suspect that it's not cocaine causing those hallucinations, though, but the sleep deprivation. They'd probably result with caffeine, too. (In fact, there's some wicked - if somewhat pathetic - caffeine trip reports on lycaeum.org)

Yes.

Though now I suspect we better drop this subject fast. This is going into rule violation country by fast by parachute deep behind enemy lines. You better also edit away that link.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 11:29 AM
It's not a link, and I can't see any reason to. The site's definitely not illegal in any way. (Unless, you know, you live in a country where a classic like Confessions of an Opium Eater is illegal, too.)

LCR
2008-12-10, 11:36 AM
What about a machine gun?

Sure, it hurts if you actually hit people, but as far as I know, machine gun fire is also used to demoralize the enemy and keep him behind cover and therefore unable to return fire.

Zenos
2008-12-10, 11:52 AM
What about a machine gun?

Sure, it hurts if you actually hit people, but as far as I know, machine gun fire is also used to demoralize the enemy and keep him behind cover and therefore unable to return fire.

Maybe a gun that sounds and flashes louder than it does actual damage? Could be rather scary if your friend drops dead and there is a sound like a loud thunderclap and a flash like lightning whilst it happens.

Immutep
2008-12-10, 04:52 PM
Based on what my "sources" told me the method i suggested caused hallucination. They never mentioned sleep deprivation as a possible source of this so i might have been badly/incompletely informed.

Although the idea of "shell-shock" had occurred to me as a posiible weapon, i believe the effects are too random to pinpoint in a rule setting (like time taken to affect a person for example) Without hallucinationatory/suggestive compounds or hypnosis i suspect you're not going to get an effective will save causing weapon (certainly not one that could be used in the same space of time as a thomson gun anyway) alot of things could be used as a massive bonus to bluff checks to get opponents to run away, such as a load recrding of police sirens maybe.

lisiecki
2008-12-10, 05:01 PM
Hey every one. I Really, really, really would like to thank everyone for the MANY good ides that have been posted.
the Loud guns, the phyc ideas, and many others.
I went to the other players with my worry about this.
In all fairness i am the only one who's ever played this system before, but i found that every, single player but me has taken Corrosion...
Logically the Zombie and the Duststorm have fairly logical reasions to take
Blast/Will/Arua, baised on round the idea "holy crap there a zombie and a dust storm"

Ive decided to let them figure this issue out on there own... the level were playing at dosnt alow me enough points to try to cover this base at this time

charl
2008-12-10, 05:08 PM
It just occurred to me that a reflex save could be brought on with a flashbang or similar weapon, if the glue gun isn't enough.