Posthumously

[whitelaughter]

The Oracle says that two members of the Oots are running late for family reunions:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html

Elan has his with Nale, Roy gets to meet his whole family, most of them in the Afterlife.

Durkon, however, is told that he will return home posthumously, and assumes that he will be buried with his ancestors:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html

Contrary to how he sees matters, he is not running late for a meeting with his family. Further [spoiler in white for those who haven't read origins] His return will be a disaster for the dwarves.

Now, of course, the family reunions may just be a reference to Nale and Julia, but there would be a very simple reason Durkon wouldn't be meeting any relatives in the afterlife - if he is turned into a Wight. That would also explain the prophecy in OoPC. And all three of our major bad guys are skilled necromancers.

Thoughts?

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm reminded of the Medical Saying*: "If you hear a hoofbeat, it's probably a horse, not a zebra." That off-hand comment about reunions was pretty much about Nale and Julia.

Apart from that, I can't really understand how the comment would apply to Durkon. And why would Durkon be turned into a wight? If he's really doomed to no-afterlife, it's far more likely that will be Snarl induced.

*Which I first heard on the first series of Law and Order, not House.

[Mauve Shirt]

I don't see why he'd become a wight of all things.
Speculation
His return is going to be a disaster because Kraagor's gate is in the dwarven homelands. I bet his death will be Snarl induced.

[T-O-E]

A wight? A little specific.

[icantdrawrocks]

I don't see why he'd become a wight of all things.
Speculation
His return is going to be a disaster because Kraagor's gate is in the dwarven homelands. I bet his death will be Snarl induced.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but

more speculation
if the Snarl kills him, wouldn't he be unmade and not dead?

And since the Oracle says he'd be returning home posthumously, that means he's already dead by the time he gets home. Meaning if Kraagor's Gate is in the Dwarven Homelands, that means he needs to have died before ever reaching the Gate.

So him being Undead, returning home, and bringing destruction (perhaps in the form of Xykon's army) is not at all unlikely. Maybe not specifically a wight though.

As for the family reunion thing: I'm sure it refers solely to the Cliffport Arc, as it happens right after they visit the Oracle. Otherwise it would imply we'll never meet any of the rest of the Order's family, and I think that's unlikely.

[Faceist]

Yeah, wight is pretty darn specific. Durkon could be turned into an undead, I guess, that would fulfill the "returning home posthumously" and "disaster" prophecies both. But why a wight specifically? Why not, I dunno, a huecuva, or death knight, or garden variety zombie, or something?

[whitelaughter]

Wights are Tsukiko's speciality, and both Redcloak and Xykon have the spells to create them as well.

And Durkon will be dead before returning home, so why would his return cause problems if he's just a corpse?

[Faceist]

Maybe that Shadowdancer we saw in the inn storyline fills his corpse with explosives, killing everyone at the funeral.

[rayne_dragon]

Hmm... he could also die of some horrifically contagious disease which is spread through the lands by his still infected corpse.

Mind you, my bets are on the returns as part of an undead horde, but it's always interesting to try to think of theories that could be true and aren't the one you favour.

[NerfTW]

The Oracle says that two members of the Oots are running late for family reunions:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html

...

Thoughts?

No, he said "THE two of you", with Elan and Roy in the panel. He was referring specifically to the Nale and Julia, a "pair of family reunions". Not Roy in the afterlife.

I can't even see how you would apply that to Durkon. As for Durkon's prophecy, he himself doesn't have to cause the destruction, it might just herald the destruction. As in, he might die, and his corpse brought back to Dwarven lands because there are A) Clerics to raise him, and B) the last gate. The destruction could very well refer to the final battle with the Snarl.

[DragoonKain]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say Kraagor's Gate is in the Dwarven Homelands?

It was the halfling who built Kraagor's Gate, wouldn't it be closer to her own homelands then?

[Limos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say Kraagor's Gate is in the Dwarven Homelands?

It was the halfling who built Kraagor's Gate, wouldn't it be closer to her own homelands then?

I don't think the gates corresponded specifically to anyone's homelands before they chose them. Kraagors just happened to be the last one. There is no reason to assume it is in Dwarven lands.

We know from Xykon and Redcloak that the last two gates are either far to the north, through several human kingdoms. Or across the ocean. I suppose the one far to the north could be in Dwarven lands.

[Assassin89]

It could be possible that Durkon dies in a battle and is then resurrected as soon as he return to the Dwarven homelands or somewhere else (no not the democracy).

[factotum]

Kraagor was a dwarf, might I point out--it would make a lot of sense for the gate named after him to be in dwarven territory, even though it was the halfling woman who set up the guards on it.

[NerfTW]

The Dwarven lands are in the north. We see ice and snow when Durkon is kicked out of the caves, and there is ice and snow around Kraagor's gate in the flashbacks. We also know that it is far to the north. (Because the only other location given is for Girard's gate)

Combining the knowledge that Kraagor's gate will be visited after Girard's gate and Durkon returning home dead strongly implies that the gate is in Dwarven lands, or at least near them, since the destruction is likely the final battle.

[mikeejimbo]

Well, I'm a fan of the Durkon undead theory, but I don't think necessarily a Wight. Maybe, though.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, anybody killed by an energy draining attack comes back as a wight, making it one of the more generic types of intelligent undead. I figured that was the reason so many people think he'll be a wight.

Most other forms of undead need to be specifically created or spawned.

[Kish]

I don't think the gates corresponded specifically to anyone's homelands before they chose them.
Serini says otherwise. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

As previously noted, the Oracle said clearly and umambiguously that Roy and Elan were running late for a couple of family reunions--meaning Nale and Julia. Durkon was excited because the answer "posthumously" was not "never."

[dps]

Serini says otherwise. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

Which means Kraagor's Gate is nearest to her homeland, not Kraagor's homeland. She named it after him instead of herself, but it's still the gate that she was in charge of protecting.

Which doesn't necessarily preclude it from being in dwarven lands--it could be in dwarven lands and still be closer to her homeland than any of the other gates.

[TheSummoner]

According to the Oracle, Belkar will die before the end of the in-comic year (read: soon). According to the Oracle, Durkon will not return home until he is dead. According to a prophecy, Durkon will bring death and destruction when he returns to his homeland (please correct me if thats not 100% accurate, I haven't read any of the compilations).

I'd like to think that Durkon simply won't die or return home during the main story, but with the "death and destruction" prophecy, it seems like a bit too much foreshadowing to leave lieing around for no reason =/.

I know death is reversable (Roy is a fine example of this), but Durkon is the only one in the Order who is able to raise the death. They COULD find someone else to do it (as Haley attempted to do with the Cleric of Loki), but I still don't want to believe that atleast 1/2 of the main characters will be killed off at one point or another (atleast one of which will be permanantly dead). Also, since Durkon will return to the Dwarven lands while dead, and will apparently bring death and destruction, I really doubt the Dwarves will be all too eager to raise him.

Those are my ramblings anyways.

[Optimystik]

I actually HOPE he becomes undead. At least then he'd be interesting.
Right now he's the paper-thin, dime-a-dozen, beer-swilling LG Dwarven Cleric to a tee.

EDIT: Yes I'm aware they're technically ALL paper-thin. Ha.

[dps]

Ac
I'd like to think that Durkon simply won't die or return home during the main story, but with the "death and destruction" prophecy, it seems like a bit too much foreshadowing to leave lieing around for no reason

Well, I suppose that it could be setting up a sequel, but I don't really think so.


I know death is reversable (Roy is a fine example of this)

He's not been an example of it yet. :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

I still don't want to believe that atleast 1/2 of the main characters will be killed off at one point or another (atleast one of which will be permanantly dead).
What we want has at best only an indirect bearing on what will happen.


Also, since Durkon will return to the Dwarven lands while dead, and will apparently bring death and destruction, I really doubt the Dwarves will be all too eager to raise him.

The prophecy does not say Durkon will be dead when he returns to dwarven lands. The wording is "Posthumously". In a world where the dead can get raised [if not always as easily as Roy would like], that does not mean he will be dead at the time he returns. And if he is dead, he won't need to be raised to cause that death and destruction.

[Tichrondrius]

Posthumously

Maybe he meant after comedy? :smallamused:

[Assassin89]

It is possible that the so-called death and destruction could be caused by the Dwarves who threw Durkon out committing suicide over a trifling matter.

[TheSummoner]

Roy hasn't been raised yet, but hes still an example because he CAN be and the Order is making every effort to make sure he IS raised.


What we want has at best only an indirect bearing on what will happen.
I realize that. I also realize all signs so far point to Durkon's death, but until it happens, I prefer to be in denial.


The prophecy does not say Durkon will be dead when he returns to dwarven lands. The wording is "Posthumously". In a world where the dead can get raised [if not always as easily as Roy would like], that does not mean he will be dead at the time he returns. And if he is dead, he won't need to be raised to cause that death and destruction.
Don't you think thats a bit of a stretch? Posthumously means after death in our world because once you're dead, you stay dead. That isn't to say Durkon won't be raised eventually, but my interpretation of the prophecy is that Durkon will die somewhere outside of the Dwarven lands (but likely somewhere fairly close), and his body (possible animated into some form of undead) will enter the Dwarven lands, triggering death and destruction.

Its possible he will be leading some undead army under Xykon or some other antagonist, but that doesn't mean its going to happen. It fits, but thats doesn't mean there aren't other possibilities that no one has thought of yet.