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Another_Poet
2008-12-09, 05:20 PM
Hi guys. I'm only about a week away from starting the new campaign I've been working on for two months. It uses two new rulesets I haven't used before, and I'm hoping for advice from other DMs who have used either or both.

It's going to be set in the Iron Kingdoms world using Pathfinder RPG rules!!! Basically a massive free-for-all set in the city of Five Fingers. The characters will wander in from far away, never having beem there before, and do whatever it takes to make their reputations and fortunes in the most underhanded city in Caen. It's going to be great!

But are there things I should watch out for?

If you used either of the two systems above, even if you've never heard of the other one, please give advice!

ap

Prometheus
2008-12-09, 07:35 PM
I'm not familiar with either of those systems, but in general it works pretty well to steal the setting of one system for use in another system. If you're worried the difference in mechanical representation might exclude the new setting, don't be, as it's been pointed out time and time again with D&D, usually the designed setting doesn't make much sense this way either. If there is some sort of feature prominent in the setting (a type of warrior, type of creature, type of magic etc) that isn't in the system, you'll either have to cut it out or homebrew some support for it.

Attilargh
2008-12-10, 01:39 AM
As Pathfinder is so similar to 3.5, I can't really think of much that would throw a wrench in the gears if combined with Iron Kingdoms.

If you're starting at lower levels, either don't give the mooks guns or choose a system of generating hit points that gives a bunch. You know how a single orc with a falchion can ruin a character's day? Yeah, guns are like that, but even more.

On the other hand, if you give your players guns, don't expect them to perform consistently better than bows. They might get a good hit or two, but on average they're pretty much equal.

Also give them plenty of gold for the bullets, and/or reduce the cost of blasting powder. The latest No Quarter magazine recommends a reduction of about 60%, explaining it in-setting with the Invasion of Llael breaking the Golden Crucible's monopoly. The point is, guns are expensive and don't leave money for the magic loot the game expects you to have.


Regarding Pathfinder, be aware that if you've had problems with the comparative power of spellcasters in the past, well, they probably haven't done all that much to change it. I haven't given the rules a proper look-through, but the Batman still seems a very strong choice. On that note, Fighter and Monk are still pretty so-so, but the new feats seem much better than the old ones and that helps.


Ędit: Oh, and you probably would have more luck if you mentioned you're running Iron Kingdoms and Pathfinder in the topic.

Another_Poet
2008-12-10, 11:18 AM
Thread title changed!

One thing I'm wondering about is the more limited magic of IK. Especially the healing limit. If a cleric heals too much, there are chances for side-effects, healing failue or even divine smiting on the patient and healer alike. It gets worse if the patient is a different alignment or religion than the healer. Do you guys use those rules when you play IK? Do your characters manage to keep their hp up? How does their play style change with such limited healing?

Lord Tataraus
2008-12-10, 11:40 AM
One thing I'm wondering about is the more limited magic of IK. Especially the healing limit. If a cleric heals too much, there are chances for side-effects, healing failue or even divine smiting on the patient and healer alike. It gets worse if the patient is a different alignment or religion than the healer. Do you guys use those rules when you play IK? Do your characters manage to keep their hp up? How does their play style change with such limited healing?

I don't know much about IK, but with Pathfinder healing is definitely upped by the cleric's energy burst/channel. I would say keep the healing limitations that IK has, but exclude the burst from that. Otherwise, I don't think you'll run into too many problems with that mixture as long as you don't go outside of those systems (no 3.5 splats and such). Magic is a lot more balanced in Pathfinder than it was in 3.5, don't let the class tables fool you. The actual power of most of the problem spells have been fixed to some degree (it is in beta still however, so there might be some spells that you need to watch).

As to the lower level of magic, Pathfinder lowers magic item significantly except for the fighter. Many classes have new/expanded abilities and starting at-will rays for the casters instead of MM wands to make them less dependent on gear.

theMycon
2008-12-10, 11:53 AM
Regarding pathfinder: All core classes, except the fighter & ranger, have received a notable increase in power.

The fighter now has class features, as a capstone ability, an a few built-in feats (+1att/damage & +1AC/-1 checks a few times). However, power attack's limit is now based on STR bonus instead of BAB. He won't be ubercharging anymore.
The Ranger is effectively the same, except he gets a death attack (Fort save) at 20.

-----

Two notable "improvements" are that wizards, by their specialized school, get insane bonuses every few levels, can choose to memorize 2 (spell level minus 1) spells in a single slot in their school bonus slot, and can replace a familiar with a free magic item, which they can upgrade as time goes on, as if they had the appropriate feat. Also, they're a free spell-slot to cast spontaneously.

Second, the monk now functions as a bad rogue (with a few more abilities) instead of a bad fighter. This makes him slightly better than the fighter. They also go out of their way to state three or four times "everyone is proficient with unarmed attacks" and "gauntlets are unarmed attacks."

caden_varn
2008-12-11, 06:26 AM
I would certainly keep the healing limitations from IK in the game, as I think it adds a nice flavour. I am not familiar with Pathfinder though, so I don't know that will work. The main thing to do is to make players aware of the limitations, and make sure that they understand how it will affect them. For example, if they have a cleric of Menoth, any non-Menites in the party are in trouble. If they have a cleric of Morrow, not so much. They can also that healing domain for double the limit, although that does not affect alignment/worship limitations. On that point, it is important to have all characters choose a god they venerate...
If they have no cleric, they will need to stock up on healing potions and salves. There are some cheaper options which are slower or change lethal to non-lethal damage, but you'll need to watch the gold they get to make sure they can keep up with healing needs in this case.

I agree with Attilargh that you will need to reduce the costs of gun ammunition if you want it to be a credible choice. I dropped the costs of all guns and ammo to half in my game, which is enough to keep the gun mage in ammo. Again, keep an eye on the rewards you give them to make sure they can keep up with the costs of maintaining their weaponry.

Another_Poet
2008-12-11, 09:55 AM
Would you say that I should increase the amount of loot they find beyond WBL, or will WBL give them enough for their healing supplies & ammo?

Also, I don't own Liber Mechanika, so I have only the basics of Mechanika from the Character Guide. Will I be okay?

caden_varn
2008-12-11, 10:26 AM
It depends a bit what classes they play. If you have a gun-centric character like a gun-mage, they are not going to keep up using WBL - its around 5gp a shot for a gun iirc - about the same as a masterwork arrow. In comparison, a normal arrow costs half a silver. If they don't have any characters using guns, this should not be such an issue, so you may not need to address it.

For healing, it depends on your position. You could say that if the cleric decides to go for a god that doesn't play well with others, that is their problem. They have the option of going for Morrow (who is most common after all) and does not restrict healing to followers of other gods. In which case its up to them to make ends meet. Just make sure they understand the consequences of that decision.
Generally I'd say they should be OK with WBL, but keep a bit of an eye on it. If they end up spending a big chunk of money on consumables, you should maybe increase the cash a little to compensate.

Lord Tataraus
2008-12-11, 11:03 AM
Two notable "improvements" are that wizards, by their specialized school, get insane bonuses every few levels, can choose to memorize 2 (spell level minus 1) spells in a single slot in their school bonus slot, and can replace a familiar with a free magic item, which they can upgrade as time goes on, as if they had the appropriate feat. Also, they're a free spell-slot to cast spontaneously.

Which actually would work nicely with limited WBL. Those abilities mean a wizard doesn't need the wands and pearls he did before and the item is to actually have a PC think about crafting. The memorize 2 in place of 1 spell of a higher level is something that's been around in either a homebrew or 3rd party book or something and from my experience is not that big of a deal. I'm not saying the wizard is particularly on par with the other classes, but most of the improvements made where for endurance rather than actual power.

However, the sorcerer, while better than its previous incarnation, is still lacking because of the retarded (Edit: as in the original sense of the word, not in a scathing sense) spell level progression.

Another_Poet
2008-12-11, 11:09 AM
@ Lord Tartarus: true, but I'm not planning on going with reduced WBL. I was wondering whether I should increase loot above the normal WBL. From what you & Caden say the answer is probably no. I think I'll just start any gunslingers with some free bullets and leave it up to them to budget for more ammo as they level.

My other question is how badly will I suffer from not having the Liber Mechanika? How much good stuff is in there that I won't be able to include?