OOTS #614 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Tingel]

Pete's house sure is big. It has high ceilings, too.

[RTGoodman]

Well... that's certainly a LOT of new toys to choose from. :smallbiggrin:

[Warlord JK]

So much for Bozzok explaining what will happen at the beginning of the comic. Pete's gallery is awesome by the way.

[smashley346]

Celia really does not fit into this group very well... haha.

So glad Haley is healed!!!

[nosajtpno]

Dang, I wonder how many of those bows are magical. This could possibly even be an upgrade for her if she's lucky

[Lira]

There was only one thing I wanted for my birthday...

This is it.

Thank you Mr. Burlew. :smalltongue:

[Nevitan]

Heh, Celia is in no way an adventurer :smallbiggrin:

(glad the forums are back up to!)

[Demon 997]

Things are looking up for the order.
Also my first post.

[fractal]

Poor Pete. It now seems entirely possible that he really had come back to help, and was just trying to get a bow to fight with.

I guess the Lando thing works better if you try it on the Good PCs and not the Evil ones.

[Jarade]

dear god,

queue the music, haley is back in buisness.

[stsasser]

Celia's realism is putting me off.

[Deme]

Oooh! Great Comic Today!

...also, man...Celia is SHALLOW. I mean, there's a time and place for worrying about something as unimportant as hair, but now? sweet monkey hats, what is she thinking? I mean, yes, it's funny, I expect no less, but...when you actually think about it...yeah.

Eh, well. Time for Haley to pick a fancy new weapon of choice and use it to kick some butt! Belkar can't be the only Sexy War Diety around here forever...he can be the only shoeless one, but that's another matter.

...hee. I got the joke about pixies liking that cut. I think, anyway...I have no idea what a pixie cut actually looks like.

[Shadic]

I hope those bows are actually good..

[Ravenred]

Nice way around the broken bow issue. I'm not worried about Belkar with Crystal, as he'll at least hold his own, if not slay the Twelve Gods out of her.

Bozzok versus Celia and a clearly injured Haley, however....

But she has the bows and quite possibly some good enchanted ammo as well.

I call this even, and given that the Giant doesn't stray too far from the narrative straight path, i'd guess that Haly will survive. Celia, though, is a bit more of a concern, given the extremely ominous foreshadowing earlier in the fight.

Excellent comic, Giant. Fantasy combat action and hair compliments FTW!

[dish]

I'm sure Pete's bows are good - just look at all the trophies he won.

However, I can totally understand Haley's frustration with Celia right now.

[Animefunkmaster]

It looks like only two left and Belkar might just single handedly take out the thieves guild.. ya, Haley softened a few up I suppose.

Great strip Giant.

[Sly Reference]

Crystal can't stand much of a chance. Rogue vs. Ranger in hand-to-hand head-to-head combat?

[SwordOfUriel]

I love the one silver cup. Nice touch.

[xyzzy]

That's a whole lot of trophies; I bet his bows are even better than a +3.

[Defiant]

Celia's silliness thoroughly amused me :smallbiggrin:

[starburst98]

i wonder how enchanted each of those are, is one of them a +5 flaming composite longbow or maybe better?

[DrakebloodIV]

Well... that's certainly a LOT of new toys to choose from. :smallbiggrin:

Why choose? If haley can lift fat sacks of loot, she can sure lift 12ish bows and crossbows

[chiasaur11]

Wow.

That is a nice arsenal. Looks like Haley won't have bow related issues.

Although Celia really is emphasizing the hair related issues.

[ocdscale]

I'm not sure this bodes well for Celia. Functionally speaking, it looks like she's lost her usefulness and may die soon. (Previously foreshadowed by her inability to be raised).

edit: Just occurred that the way Haley describes the foyer implies that there is one particular bow she is looking for. Very likely it will be an upgrade.

[CrazyMacGuy]

AMAZING way around the Haley's Bow problem... that is a delicious wall of destruction.

Its been wonderful to see the Belkster back, and I am worried that Crystal may not last very long... oh who am I kidding, I can't wait to see Belkar make mince meat of Crystal...

I also kinda like Haley's hair that way.

[SSGW Priest]

I love the one silver cup. Nice touch.

Platinum from the time he placed first, second, and third at the same time. :smallbiggrin:

Time for a Chrystal hat. One size fits all and no pesky brain to get in the way of fitting.

[Lunaya]

At the risk of sounding racist...My gawd, what an airhead! :smallsigh:

Seriously, as smart as Celia's supposed to be, you'd think she could figure out when to drop the subject, especially in a life or death situation. I feel for Roy if he ever decides to marry the girl. I'm wanting to bash my head against the wall just from reading her speech bubbles. :smalleek:

[Draco Dracul]

I can't help but wounder if Celia is making refrences to Artimus Fowl as those books feature a fairy with a buzz cut?

[RosesOnConcrete]

*eeeeevil smile* That is a very welcome sight. New toys for our favorite archer!

Well, this changes things, doesn't it? Bozzock may be looking into job opportunities in the pincushion field shortly. :P

Also, gotta love Celia being all shallow and silly about the hair...kinda like the people who wouldn't shut up about it in the forums, now that I think about it...

Killer job, as always, Giant!

EDIT: Dagnabbit, *just* missed being able to say "First page!" :P

[Aethir]

Can't wait for Haley to get her replacement bow now! Love that Celia's airheaded side is coming through too though.

[An Enemy Spy]

I guess Sabine was right. Haley does dye her hair!

[Fish]

I guess Sabine was right. Haley does dye her hair!
We always knew that — her hair was once black. So at some point she must have changed her color.

[hungryLIKEALION]

This is totally awesome! I hope one of those is an Oathbow... ;p

[Trizap]

a silver cup there? huh looks like ol' Eagle-Eyed Pete missed a shot :smalltongue:

[Captain Six]

Poor Pete. It now seems entirely possible that he really had come back to help, and was just trying to get a bow to fight with.

I guess the Lando thing works better if you try it on the Good PCs and not the Evil ones.

Oh wow... now I feel bad about that...:smallfrown:

[fractal]

I guess Sabine was right. Haley does dye her hair!
Yes, she did - when she was a teenager.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html

Note the red roots - her current hair color is the natural one, the black was the dye.

[Mr._Michael]

:haley:"Huh. I guess he's really not going to be needing what we're taking anymore."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/redxiv/celia.gif"Why, is it a hat?"

Fashion Fixation FTW!


Oh... and thank you, Giant, for only showing us Pete's feets. :smallcool:

[zillion ninjas]

At the risk of sounding racist...My gawd, what an airhead! :smallsigh:

That's not racist - it's elementalist. :smallwink:

[Optimystik]

Yep, Bozzok's screwed. Heck, the whole Guild is down the tubes now.

[fractal]

Yep, Bozzok's screwed. Heck, the whole Guild is down the tubes now.
That's a theory, but I think it's unlikely.

Remember that Hank and a few of his flunkies are still out there. I would guess that after taking down Bozzok, Haley leaves him in charge of a greatly diminished guild.

[amanamana]

With that high ceilling, Celya could lift Haley as she rain death on Bozzok...

[Optimystik]

That's a theory, but I think it's unlikely.

Remember that Hank and a few of his flunkies are still out there. I would guess that after taking down Bozzok, Haley leaves him in charge of a greatly diminished guild.

Oh the Guild will probably be AROUND, but it'll be ripe for plucking by someone with actual leadership skills: i.e. Haley's father. The Thieves' Guild as Bozzok molded it is pretty much a done deal.

[Assassin89]

More proof that Pete was blind to the effects of betrayal. If Pete told CoL his plan ahead of time, Haley could have more reinforcements for the battle against Bozzok.

[Super_slash2]

No, no, no......

Bozzok is going to die, darn it.

Why must the smart villains always be killed off........ At least there's Red Cloak. But still.

This also completely throws Pete's motives into question.

[Mando Knight]

I think... are those composite longbows? If she's strong enough, she's going to be even more lethal...

[RTGoodman]

I think... are those composite longbows? If she's strong enough, she's going to be even more lethal...

I think Haley mentioned at some point (when she and Belkar went to retrieve Roy's body after the battle, maybe?) that she just has "average" Strength, so composite bows are probably right out. I'm thinkin' she'll probably just grab one of the other normal bows that's hanging there, plus some fancy magic arrows. I'll look and see if I can find the quote.

Apparently I was wrong, but the Class and Level Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3420630#post3420630) thread has come to the rescue.



:haley:Haley Starshine [...]
Attributes (26 pt buy min):
Str 11-15 (high enough to carry Belkar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0470.html), but must drag Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0483.html))

[Moriarty]

i hope haley goes for the green or red bow, those monstrosities in the middle look way to rough for her

[Optimystik]

Why must the smart villains always be killed off........

Because small fry need to be taken care of before the important battles start. Otherwise they have an annoying tendency to throw wrenches into things, kinda like this strip. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html)

(I highly recommend Vaarsuvius' Dissertation for any and all B-villains, regardless of intelligence.)

[Ellen]

My bet is the guild has a standing deal with the temple of Loki and they'll all be brought back.

The guild, however, goes broke paying for it.

[slurpz]

Bags of holding should be able to take care of the bows right? Grab one bow to be the main, take the rest.

I'm hoping it's going to be one of the composite bows (if Haley's strong enough).

[chiasaur11]

Just noticed Belkar's quip.

Seems Bozzok is firmly in his "hate" rather than the other category.

[Nevitan]

Just noticed Belkar's quip.

Seems Bozzok is firmly in his "hate" rather than the other category.

I don't know, ever since Belkar's talk with Shojo I think he developed a third category "necessary".

[Lunaya]

At the risk of sounding racist...My gawd, what an airhead! :smallsigh:


That's not racist - it's elementalist. :smallwink:

Either way...*hides in an ACLU-proof bunker* :smallamused:

Anyway, here's hoping Haley won't run out of bows anytime soon.

[bibliophile20]

*drums fingers together findishly* Excellent...

And I agree: the one silver trophy is a nice touch.

[Xenon]

belkar just keeps gettin better lines..... and that is an awesome den.

[Optimystik]

My bet is the guild has a standing deal with the temple of Loki and they'll all be brought back.

The guild, however, goes broke paying for it.

I hope not. Evil doesn't usually work that way... usually if your faction stops being useful (for example, say, being slaughtered wholesale by a midget and two girls) the other faction isn't going to jump through hoops to save you.

Also, remember to spoiler tag predictions for The Giant's benefit.

[Martok]

"Why, is it a hat?" LOL!


Also: Can't wait to see what Haley's new bow can do. :smallamused:

[Enlong]

:
Oh... and thank you, Giant, for only showing us Pete's feets. :smallcool:
Really? Where?! This must go to the Geekery Thread!

[brionl]

Well, isn't that conveeeeeeeenient.
Also nice pay-off for the Eagle-Eye Pete nickname. :smallcool:

[Shua]

Nice I think Miss Starshine is about to get a serious upgrade. With her back and Belkar running roughshod over what ever is put in his way it doesn't look bode well for the guild.

~ Shua

[Super_slash2]

Yeah, I know they have to be killed off for the sake of the plot but still.....

Bozzok, Crystal and Hank did some really cool things.

[Phexar]

Well, that room's certainly an archer's dream. Looks like that solves the problems of Haley's weaponry and gives her an upgrade at the same time. I liked the "Screw the halfling!" and the "Why, is it a hat?" lines. :smallbiggrin:

On another note, despite the weaponry in the den, Pete still didn't give them any warning beforehand, so I'm not convinced of his innocence.

[BossMuro]

So that's why Pete was trying to get to the den, eh? It makes it so much funnier to me that he actually was coming back to save his friends, and I kind of suspect that the Giant put that bit in just because of all the people speculating that Pete might just come back and save the day.

And where are Hank, the fighter, and the other rogue? The house can't be that big. Maybe Hank's decided it's time that he got a promotion...

[ss49]

Pretty good. Our Heroes might actually start climbing out of the deep hole they are in!

[Zienth]

i hope haley goes for the green or red bow, those monstrosities in the middle look way to rough for her

:celia: The green one, not the red one. Green is a much better color for Haley (as long as it's not a bright lime green, of course). The brown one would be fine, too. But the red would just be so wrong with her hair.

[Enlong]

:celia: The green one, not the red one. Green is a much better color for Haley (as long as it's not a bright lime green, of course). The brown one would be fine, too. But the red would just be so wrong with her hair.

With her red hair?:smallconfused:

[Essex]

I wonder if selling Pete's extra items and some gear from dead thieves will be enough money to resurrect Roy.

[jolus]

Women and hair. Nuff said :-)

[TheSummoner]

Predictions for somewhere between 615 and 620

Haley picks a bow and manages to hold off Bozzak for a while. Bozzak eventually manages to get an the upper hand, but not as easily as before. When things start looking bad for Haley, Celia will actually manage to hit Bozzak with lightning, distracting him just long enough for Haley to get away. The battle continues until Bozzak is worn out, but Haley and Celia aren't doing much better. Suddenly Belkar appears eating chips out of a new bowl and finishes Bozzak off with his cool new dagger.

[Glorfindel]

Nice comic! Though I don't understand the last 10 square frames. Could somebody explain them to me :smallcool:

[DBear]

Nice to see that I was right (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5445219&postcount=17) about Haley not getting too bent about her hair.

But Eagle-Eyed Pete, tho! The clue was right there! :smallmad:

[Zienth]

With her red hair?:smallconfused:

I guess a kobold wouldn't understand that when a human is said to have "red" hair, it really means she has orange hair.

:celia: And orange and red just don't go together.

[David Argall]

My, my. So the Bozzak-Belkar fight is off the boards for the moment. Now we get to speculate about the Crystal-Belkar romance. So Belkar can't kill Crystal since she is Haley's rival and must die in Haley-related circumstances, so he and Crystal get to talking and find they have a lot in common. Things turn quite friendly. Then we can have that turn bad any of a dozen ways. Crystal and Haley are not likely to get along and the result is likely Crystal or Belkar dead.

[zillion ninjas]

That's not racist - it's elementalist. :smallwink:

Either way...*hides in an ACLU-proof bunker* :smallamused:

What, the Azure City Loyal Underground? Don't worry, they're way too busy fighting hobgoblins right now to worry about someone bad-mouthing a sylph. :smallbiggrin:


Anyway, here's hoping Haley won't run out of bows anytime soon.

That's not likely, what with a wall full of them and her seven bags of holding.

[Scribble]

I wonder who he took second to one year... and what happened to said person afterward in a possibly not very well lit alley.

[Cracklord]

Is it just me, or does Pete's house seem to be really big? Like huge? With incredibly high ceilings and doors?
Also, here the hell did Roy go? Shouldn't he be following them and amusing himself with sarcasm? Seems odd that he just fades away, even if he is a ghost.
Bozzok seems like he's about to get screwed over, but things are bound to get better for Crystal. After all, the laws of narrative convention dictate that only Haley can kill her. Do you think she'll count her blessings and run? God I hope so. Her character is starting to grow on me.
However I just developed an hypothesis. When Redcloak raised the issue of how many sides their are, one of the roaches said there were at least nine, before being shushed. So how many are there so far?

Definite
:xykon: Xykon
:redcloak: Redcloak and the dark one
:roy: The order
:nale: The linear guild

Possible
:vaarsuvius: Vaarsuvius
Those fiends Sabine contacted
Nale and Elans dad.

Even if we count Hinjo that's still only eight, so who is number nine? Someone we haven't heard of yet? Getting a bit late in the game for that. Perhaps Bozzok will survive by selling out about Haley's dad, and perhaps help recover Roy's body (You have got to admit this would be cool), to find his power base shattered and his life in shambles. What if he swear revenge, and in the process discovers a certain gate...

Long shot, I'll admit, but could work.

I hope that the guild doesn't get killed off, some of them are much to good characters. But the plot has remained excelant and I'll probably enjoy it no matter what.

AND WHERE THE HELL IS DURKON :durkon:?

[Kokopelli Jones]

It strikes me that Celia's hair obsession of the moment isn't ditziness, as much as someone on the verge of complete panic focusing on something trivial to keep from freaking out over the bigger threats.

After all, she's 1. Not an adventurer and 2. Can't come back if she's killed. She's completely out of her comfort zone.

[David Argall]

Over a dozen other sides have been suggested, including Sabine's masters and Hinjo & the AC crowd.

[Kokopelli Jones]

AND WHERE THE HELL IS DURKON :durkon:?

Waiting in the wings to make a last second rescue, perhaps?

BTW, Azure City and OOTS are also two different sides -- just cooperating with each other at the moment.

[holywhippet]

AND WHERE THE HELL IS DURKON :durkon:?

Even assuming the sending spell worked correctly, Durkon will need time to reach Greysky let alone find them and help.

If he's serious about killing her, Belkar will massacre Crystal. I'm guessing all her levels are in rogue and assassin - both are 3/4 BAB progression classes. They do a lot of sneak attack damage in total, but without anyone to flank Belkar that's not going to do anything. Belkar has a much higher BAB from being a ranger/barbarian and a much higher AC (presumably). Unless Haley/Crystal have much higher character levels it's goodbye Miss Bad Fashion Sense.

[TheSummoner]

Unless Haley/Crystal have much higher character levels it's goodbye Miss Bad Fashion Sense.

And hello Miss Chip Bowl.

[Angband]

Celia: What do you need, Haley?

Haley: Bows. Lots of bows.


Unfortunately, there's no more guards in the lobby for her to shoot up. :smallbiggrin:

Also, Celia's "Is it a hat?" line completely cracked me up.

[factotum]

Why is everyone assuming that just because Pete wanted to go into his den that he perforce must have been telling the truth about wanting to save the people he left in the lurch? Given the sheer number of people in the Guild he wouldn't have made much of a difference. I think it's far more likely he was coming back to get the things that were precious to him--e.g. his bows--before skipping town for good; you know, just in case Bozzok decided to change his mind about the whole "not putting his eyes out again" deal.

[Aquillion]

Man, for all the theories about how Belkar would handle a higher-level rogue while outnumbered, that was sure settled easily. :smallbiggrin:

And for an NPC, Celia sure grasps the concept of "talking is a free action" pretty well. :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

Comic was awesome. Celia IS a bit of a ditz.And water's a bit wet...

In all seriousness, though, I think the more appropriate term for Celia would be 'airhead.'

*twitch*

Did Belkar need to add on the slur toward half-orcs? "Not on your best day." would have been fine on its own.

[Zienth]

Did Belkar need to add on the slur toward half-orcs? "Not on your best day." would have been fine on its own.

It's Belkar. Of course he needed to say it.

[turkishproverb]

And water's a bit wet...

In all seriousness, though, I think the more appropriate term for Celia would be 'airhead.'

*twitch*

Did Belkar need to add on the slur toward half-orcs? "Not on your best day." would have been fine on its own.



Don't you remember? Belkar's just racist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html).

[Aeek]

Celia has just justified her presence by saving, healing, and rearming Haley; she belongs.

[Optimystik]

It strikes me that Celia's hair obsession of the moment isn't ditziness, as much as someone on the verge of complete panic focusing on something trivial to keep from freaking out over the bigger threats.

After all, she's 1. Not an adventurer and 2. Can't come back if she's killed. She's completely out of her comfort zone.

At the same time, there are only what, 2 high-level thieves left alive in the house? You'd think a lawyer would have a better grip on the facts...

[Aquillion]

Don't you remember? Belkar's just racist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html).
I don't think he actually is (he strikes me more as the 'hates all races equally' type, silly though that is for a ranger). But he loves getting under people's skin, and insulting their race is an easy way to do that.

[B.I.T.T.]

"Why is it a hat?" is now my official favorite line from Celia.

Good comic.

[shylocxs]

Oooh! Great Comic Today!

...also, man...Celia is SHALLOW. I mean, there's a time and place for worrying about something as unimportant as hair, but now? sweet monkey hats, what is she thinking? I mean, yes, it's funny, I expect no less, but...when you actually think about it...yeah.


And Roy wants to date her? Eeewww... it's like the 3 foot section sometimes!

[Jan Mattys]

Ok, now it's time for some serious kick-ass bow. But still, I really, REALLY hope Haley will also pick up a sword.

Having a sap as a backup weapon for a 14th level rogue carrying around a bajillion gold pieces sounds a bit odd...

[Castamir]

Well, you can't really be surprised that an air elemental is an airhead.

[malcolm]

I'd wager that Haley + Belkar could take on any other team of 2 within the Order of the Stick. Sexy shoeless god of war + stealthed sniper rogue = dead Durkon, Roy, V, Elan, etc.

[Delgarde]

It strikes me that Celia's hair obsession of the moment isn't ditziness, as much as someone on the verge of complete panic focusing on something trivial to keep from freaking out over the bigger threats.

Agreed. Yes, she's rather uneducated about life on the material plane, but she's not stupid. This is panic, plain and simple.

[Aeek]

and the fact that she's had her moment and is now its all up to Haley and Belkar.

[moonbiter]

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that Haley states that "Ok, Belkar gave us a good distraction, but even he can't beat the whole Guild on his own" when it seems he has pretty much already done just that?

I mean, aside from the leader types, he obviously has no problem wiping the floor with the mooks that seem to make up the bulk of the Guild.

[Delgarde]

AND WHERE THE HELL IS DURKON :durkon:?

A long, long way away, remember? As Haley notes in #603, she has no expectation that Durkon will arrive in time to affect the outcome of the fight. The only reason Haley wants to contact him is so he can show up in a few weeks to resurrect them.

Of course, that's Haley's expectation. Doesn't mean Durkon can't find some way of getting there quicker...

[Delgarde]

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that Haley states that "Ok, Belkar gave us a good distraction, but even he can't beat the whole Guild on his own" when it seems he has pretty much already done just that?

Yes, but to be fair, she said that the panel *before* she started coming across the messy evidence to the contrary...

[banjo1985]

Ooo a weapons cache, if Haley can't find something useful in there then there's something wrong with her...other than the awful new hair cut of course. :smalltongue:

[Amarsir]

I know the hat line was popular, but I preferred the "lots of pixies" line myself. :smallbiggrin:

[Starscream]

Haley must want to strangle Celia right now, but she's trying her best to help. Everyone knows fantasy girls in leather armor that manages to protect you even with a midriff are supposed to have long hair.

Still, it looks pretty good that way.

[Fri]

Sadly, now I can understand Pete's reasoning on his betrayal. He used to be best sniper in the guild. Then he's blinded. Imagine if you're a, say football player, then got your leg amputated. Or a painter that got your eyes blinded. Everything you do until that time, is to sharpen your one chosen skill, your tools of the trade. Then you can't do it anymore.

though, not saying that the betrayal isn't wrong.

And I don't understand how people said that celia is shallow, stupid, etc in this strip. It's humorous panic.

[Koshiro]

Don't you remember? Belkar's just racist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html).
Actually, that panel shows him as definitely not racist - a racist wouldn't intellectually analyze his own racism that way.

Belkar just likes to kill people and take their stuff. Mostly the first part. And he's cool with any philosophy that enables him to.

Of course, in that comic, Belkar was merely the straight man to point out the hypocrisy of typical FRPGs.

[Greep]

And Roy wants to date her? Eeewww... it's like the 3 foot section sometimes!

Makes sense in a way, though. To a certain extent opposites attract, and Roy's incredibly practicle. He's also probably looking for a girl with the furthest personality from miko he can find atm XD

[kerberos]

Actually, that panel shows him as definitely not racist - a racist wouldn't intellectually analyze his own racism that way.

Belkar just likes to kill people and take their stuff. Mostly the first part. And he's cool with any philosophy that enables him to.

Of course, in that comic, Belkar was merely the straight man to point out the hypocrisy of typical FRPGs.

It's not really hypocracy, it's just that in D&D the racists are right. Some races are morally, intelectually and/or physically inferior

[krysjez]

I can't help but wounder if Celia is making refrences to Artimus Fowl as those books feature a fairy with a buzz cut?

Holly is an elf, not a pixie.

[Neopolis]

Hmm, probably Pete hasn't been to that room in years... A room full of bows, shiny trophies and books... That must really hurt if you're blind.:smallcool:

[Aquillion]

I'd wager that Haley + Belkar could take on any other team of 2 within the Order of the Stick. Sexy shoeless god of war + stealthed sniper rogue = dead Durkon, Roy, V, Elan, etc.Uh, no. They could get V if they got initiative or went first, but absent that Belkar's will save sucks (terrible wis mod, ranger/barbarian without enough levels to get anywhere near Indomitable Will.) If V got even one spell off it would be all over.

Durkon wouldn't even be close. He has Thor's Might, and he has a huge amount of healing -- unless they can drop him in one turn (they can't), they'd have no chance against him, even two-on-one.

[pjackson]

I'd wager that Haley + Belkar could take on any other team of 2 within the Order of the Stick. Sexy shoeless god of war + stealthed sniper rogue = dead Durkon, Roy, V, Elan, etc.

How much?
V could take both of them alone in a straight fight.
Durkon could too if prepared.

An optimized bard of Elan's level could too. Elan isn't optimized but could easily talk Haley into switching sides.

Belkar and Haley are both hard targets for Vs favoured evokations, but he is smart enough to know that.
Rogue, ranger and barbarian all have poor will saves, and Belkar even has a wisdom penalty. V does prepare some spells that target will saves - we have seen crushing despair and suggestion.
Durkon could prepare Hold Person (which a bard could learn).

[kierthos]

The only way the comic would be better is if panel 7 had Haley saying "Never mind, I guess he can beat the whole Guild...."

[Moonshadow]

Well, Celia is an an airhead. And she's a tad flighty.

But an awesome comic nonetheless.

[Koshiro]

The only way the comic would be better is if panel 7 had Haley saying "Never mind, I guess he can beat the whole Guild...."
Well, she has the right thoughts, though...
"[...]even he can't beat the whole guild [...]"
That nobody else could is a given, but even Belkar can't.

However...
"[...] if Belkar came up the stairs, then everyone guarding the front door is dead now."
This conclusion was a bit rash. "dead or swooning now" is the new default. Although in this case "dead" was correct. Good guess!

[kierthos]

I'm just wondering if Haley is going to mention to Bozzok (during the upcoming combat scene) that if it had been up to her, she never would have come back to Greysky...

And you realize, Haley, Belkar and Celia still have to get Roy's body back...

[HOLEkevin]

Dude, Celia was totally copping a feel flying Haley around the guild house.

That is so hot.

[cocked_brow]

2 recurve bows. 4 longbows. 6 arrows. Most of the arrows colour matches one of the bows. There's No arrow for the Green longbow.

Energy arrows FTW?

[vgc]

Was it mentioned before that Bozzak is a half-orc? He has four pointy teeth. I thought half-orcs only had two.

[ref]

Haley uses green arrows, so I guess the second bow on the right, Wendy. Have we seen any order to be good with crossbows? She's the only ranger (as in, does ranged attacks) of the party, so she can't bring new weapons for her mates...

On a different subject... Happy Birthday, Lira.

[SteveMB]

At the risk of sounding racist...My gawd, what an airhead! :smallsigh:

Seriously, as smart as Celia's supposed to be, you'd think she could figure out when to drop the subject, especially in a life or death situation.

In defense of Celia, it could be a reaction to stress -- she's not really the adventurer type.

[SteveMB]

But the red would just be so wrong with her hair.
With her red hair?:smallconfused:

I don't mean this to come across as sexist stereotyping, but my wife can tell which of several identical (as far as I can see) colors do or do not go together.

[MarkyMark]

Poor Pete. It now seems entirely possible that he really had come back to help, and was just trying to get a bow to fight with.

I guess the Lando thing works better if you try it on the Good PCs and not the Evil ones.


How on earth do you make that out?

He was completely willing to take his time. And sit quietly while his childhood friend who risked everything to help him was being killed.

"Oh, he could have scuttled off to get the weapons". Well, that would require him to be moving from the chair. A fairly obvious change, "sitting quietly on a chair reading" and "sneaking off through a door nearby".

Do you think that maybe some of the thieves would have noticed?

And, still being unarmed (the weapons are behind a case), how well do you think Brainy Pete would have faired?

He wasn't going to get them to bust his mate out. The theives guild would have had his eyes cut out AGAIN and wouldn't have believed in anything that would get his eyes back again.

[MageLeif]

Looks like Haley will be getting a nice new +5 bow! :smallsmile:

[MarkyMark]

(I highly recommend Vaarsuvius' Dissertation for any and all B-villains, regardless of intelligence.)

Give them the finger. The INDEX finger. Of Death.

Bwahahahahaa!

[Ninja]

if i were her i'd take the orange one in the middle.... looks awesome...

[SteveMB]

How on earth do you make that out?

He was completely willing to take his time. And sit quietly while his childhood friend who risked everything to help him was being killed.

"Oh, he could have scuttled off to get the weapons". Well, that would require him to be moving from the chair. A fairly obvious change, "sitting quietly on a chair reading" and "sneaking off through a door nearby".

Do you think that maybe some of the thieves would have noticed?

Well, it's possible that he was at least trying to get in the same room as the weapons and then work from there. That said, he still could have been intending to just make his own escape, not help anybody else.

[T-O-E]

She's armed and deadly again! Let's see if Haley can find a +5 bow that puts Crystal's dagger to shame.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmmm... Which bow to pick... Haley is strong, but how strong? As an adventurer, she is stronger than most women, and probably most male commoners, but she's no Roy.

Should she take a composite bow, or settle for the longbow that she's already used to? Or switch it up completely, and take a crossbow? (I don't see the usual rogue bow, the short bow, but the drawing style of OotS makes it somewhat difficult to show the difference.)

No real point to this post, just random speculation. What does the rest of the forum think?

[Vulion]

Loved the strip, had some the best lines ever in it!

I agree with the people that say that Celia is just trying to cope with the feelings of panic. I'm one of those people that didn't understand why people we're getting so bent out of shape when Celia showed that she wasn't a very proficient adventurer. I mean, nothing really indicated that Celia was anything but a good lawyer. I think people just got it stuck in their head that Celia would join and automatically be a good addition. When their fantasy didn't pan out, they took it out on her.

[Vagnarok]

This opens up some interesting possibilities for Haley. I wonder what kind of bow she's going to get? Bow of Force plz? lol probably not.

Anyway, I should have seen this coming when Crystal shattered her bow.

[Azazuc]

Too many details in "the den"... The Giant is slowly changing his style :smallconfused:

Also, I noticed that single pages are losing humor and the storyline is slowing down a lot... :smallsigh:

Great job anyway :smallbiggrin:

[Milanius]

Ahahaha... I mean, aww, damn it, that poor ol' Pete had a 2nd place trophy. :smallannoyed:

[Elderac]

I can't help but wounder if Celia is making refrences to Artimus Fowl as those books feature a fairy with a buzz cut?

That hairstyle is often referred to as a "pixie" cut.

I was thinking it might have been a reference to Tinkerbell, but, although her hair is mostly short, she does have that bun up in the back.

[hamishspence]

on the half-orc bit- there is no consistant rule. Therkla had two fangs, but she might in fact be the exception rather than the rule- several of the half-orcs seen have four.

[DigoDragon]

Convinient replacement weapon room... but if Eagle-Eyed Pete was really as good as the stories say, he wouldn't need any fancy magical bows. :smallsmile:

[Jaysyn]

So...

What happened to Hank (soul patch), Mr. Power Attack & Mr 8th lvl Rogue?


----------------
Now playing: Radiohead - Backdrifts (Honeymoon Is Over) (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/radiohead/track/backdrifts)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Wolfram]

Dude, Celia was totally copping a feel flying Haley around the guild house.

That is so hot.

So it maches Haley's new butch cut and latent bisexuality? Hmmm. I sense a bold new direction...

[Scarlet Knight]

And Roy wants to date her?

Of course Roy wants to date her; nothing beats the great taste of sprite....

[Wolfram]

My bet for an upcoming Haley quote...

Say hello to my little friend!

[Glyde]

"Is it a hat?"


THAT made my day. Thank you, Giant. That was hilarious.

[cocked_brow]

Of course Roy wants to date her; nothing beats the great taste of sprite....

Ieeee. The Pun... She BURNS!

[MarkyMark]

Ahahaha... I mean, aww, damn it, that poor ol' Pete had a 2nd place trophy. :smallannoyed:

That was what he won after he lost his eyes.

Hey, blindness is only a -4 to hit in 2nd Ed (when Pete was blinded)!

[Raging Gene Ray]

My bet for an upcoming Haley quote...

Say hello to my little friend!

And then this happens:

Crystal: Hi. Bozzok: Hello, nice to meet you.
Celia: Hi, how's it going?

[Yoyoyo]

Of course Roy wants to date her; nothing beats the great taste of sprite....

This made me laugh harder than the comic. Well, maybe not the hat line.

And is Bozzok sacrificing Crystal? He may not appreciate Belkar's power, but it shouldn't be a contest. :belkar: too good for her.

[pendell]

on the half-orc bit- there is no consistant rule. Therkla had two fangs, but she might in fact be the exception rather than the rule- several of the half-orcs seen have four.

Genetics does strange things. It's not like they come off an assembly line.

For that matter, the fact that humans and orcs can cross breed and produce fertile offspring without serious magical intervention suggests they are really the same species in OOTS world.

Comic -- nothing to complain about. Plot advances. Mild chuckle from Belkar's line "Not on your best day, Tusky!"

Curious to see what happens now that Crystal and Belkar are fighting 1v1. Not sound tactical thinking on Bozzak's part.

Respectfully ,

Brian P.

[Adeptus]

I'm not sure this bodes well for Celia. Functionally speaking, it looks like she's lost her usefulness and may die soon. (Previously foreshadowed by her inability to be raised).

Come on, Celia is a civilian, and not a member of the OotS. Her usefulness as an adventurer is not an issue.

Haley get's a nice red longbow with her new haircut I bet. :haley:

[Adeptus]

<snip>
For that matter, the fact that humans and orcs can cross breed and produce fertile offspring without serious magical intervention suggests they are really the same species in OOTS world.


There's no such thing as genetics here, and even if there was, they were all made by the same gods. No wonder pretty much anything can breed with anything in the setting.

[Linkavitch]

Thank you, Giant!:smallbiggrin: Now Haley has a new bow. And Belkar's situation doesn't look as screwed anymore.:biggrin:

[Linkavitch]

Convinient replacement weapon room... but if Eagle-Eyed Pete was really as good as the stories say, he wouldn't need any fancy magical bows. :smallsmile:

Yeah, but maybe it was the fancy magical bows that got him his reputation in the first place. . .

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

It strikes me that Celia's hair obsession of the moment isn't ditziness, as much as someone on the verge of complete panic focusing on something trivial to keep from freaking out over the bigger threats.

After all, she's 1. Not an adventurer and 2. Can't come back if she's killed. She's completely out of her comfort zone.

I like that hypothesis. And in answer to someone else's question about where Roy is, Roy is still being boggled while watching Belkar.

[Zienth]

Convinient replacement weapon room... but if Eagle-Eyed Pete was really as good as the stories say, he wouldn't need any fancy magical bows. :smallsmile:

You don't see archers in the Olympics using $40 fiberglass WalMart bows. The best people at any activity tend to have the best tools.

Especially if they don't have any objection to taking those good tools from their competitors who aren't quite as good. Or rather, "weren't". :smallwink:

[chibibar]

Yup.. time to pick out a new weapon.

As per arrow, not all arrow BREAKS upon use (even magical one) I do allow my players to retrieve them when they are allow and of course I do use breakage rules.

I had a player who totally enchant a single arrow that is slaying type with indestructibility (arrow won't break) I think it was a +3 at the time, but was destroy via http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesdisjunction.htm hehe

yea.. I'm mean sometimes.

edit: as if any athlete would use 10$ wal-mart tennis shoes. right.....

[Shatteredtower]

Of course Roy wants to date her; nothing beats the great taste of sprite....

While that got a laugh out of me, does Roy really want everyone knowing he's got sylph?

[Frictional]

While that got a laugh out of me, does Roy really want everyone knowing he's got sylph?

I think I just died a little inside.

Not like Roy, who will... well, I won't get into it. ;)

[Optimystik]

Of course Roy wants to date her; nothing beats the great taste of sprite....


While that got a laugh out of me, does Roy really want everyone knowing he's got sylph?

You two could give Elan a run for his money :smallannoyed:

[Scarlet Knight]

While that got a laugh out of me, does Roy really want everyone knowing he's got sylph?

Groooan! Well played, sir!

[The_Firenail]

Huh, I would have thought that she'd be sixty feet under, but thanks to someone's scriptwriting, that's not gonna happen.

I voted yes. (http://www.isitfunnytoday.com/view.php?id=1720&t=d)

[holywhippet]

In defense of Celia, it could be a reaction to stress -- she's not really the adventurer type.

I was thinking the same thing. Celia really isn't used to killing - especially lots of killing. She probably doesn't want to think about the fact that Haley just got stabbed badly and is focusing on something else.

More likely, Rich is just milking the joke for all it's worth.

[Shady_halfling]

i choose the green one, or the one with the wierd blocks near the middle.

[David Argall]

I agree with the people that say that Celia is just trying to cope with the feelings of panic.
I don't. Celia is not panicing. She was able to wait carefully for her chance to save Haley and pull it off. She just thinks that Haley's hair is IMPORTANT!.
Remember, this is the lass who went out of her way to pick up half a candy bar for fear some animal might get sick from eating it. Nothing out of character for her to be worried about Haley's hair.
Celia is currently in a situation [adventuring] she has no real understanding of. Of course she behaves dubiously.


Different subject Bozzak's last words to Crystal were "Screw the halfling." How obedient is Crystal? And where will they put their weapons?



There's no such thing as genetics here
The laws of genetics fully apply to OOTS or any other fantasy world [except when they get in the way]. Fantasy merely ignores that when you take half of a TV and half of a refrig, you have got a whole lot of work to do, or a pile of junk. [But I am pretty sure there are frigs on sale with built-in TVs.] Fantasy just assumes magic or something does that work.

The battle turns well for the party. Belkar can take Crystal fairly clearly under these conditions, and Haley with a bow and a high ceiling so Celia can keep her out of reach of that sword can at least stay alive until Belkar can come save them.
As said, Bozzak made a bad error abandoning a flank to chase Haley.

[hamishspence]

Outsider/human crosses are one of the most common in D&D- many Planetouched races exist.

[Sequinox]

Yay! Loved it :smallbiggrin:

[MarkyMark]

I don't. Celia is not panicing. She was able to wait carefully for her chance to save Haley and pull it off. She just thinks that Haley's hair is IMPORTANT!.

Ever heard of "displacement activity"?

It's when you don't want to talk about something (Oh, no, Haley nearly DIED and was tortured!) or remember something (Brainy Pete's Brains, for example), you witter on about anything to stop talking about the thing that is loudly banging on your psyche.

Remeber, Crystal had to watch the events unfold and it really looked like, absent SSGoW's entry (which floored EVERYONE in the strip), she would have to see Haley killed in front of her.

She's not military. Or a PC.

So you obsess about the little things: hair so as not to talk about the big things: Oh, I'm sorry I had to watch you nearly die, I couldn't stop them.

Even Haley didn't want to talk about it, though that may be as much to say to Celia that this was fine and she wasn't going to think less of her for doing nothing.

[Adeptus]

The laws of genetics fully apply to OOTS or any other fantasy world [except when they get in the way].

Honestly, they do not. I for one am a fan of the Glorantha (http://www.glorantha.com/) setting, and it's a world that runs on magic and mythology, not with natural science. There specifically are no genes to be found on Glorantha, similar things happen (daughters look like mothers, and so on) but the reasons are different.

[DrivinAllNight]

ok, so the 'great taste of sprite' joke was really funny,
and so what if roy has sylph, it can't be that bad,
but I think every one misses the fact that Celia really prefers the taste of 7Up...
[br]I'm terrible, i know, so what :smalltongue:

[Iago]

"Why, is it a hat?" AWESOME line.

Now, as for the ongoing fight, I have to talk numbers. Admittedly, the Rule Of Drama (which demands service from the Rule Of Probability as per a copper-piece-harlot) demands Haley must defeat Crystal, as a personal rival.

However, assuming that Crystal is Haley's level, and assuming further from the class and geekery thread that Haley is approximately level 13, then we have a rogue/assassin of approximately 5/8 (minimum 5th level rogue for 8 skill ranks for assassin prereqs) in meele combat with a ranger/barbarian of 12/1... which leaves Crystal with a single weapon at +9/+4 against Belkar's 13/8/3. If Belkar uses two weapons, his damage per round cranks up (two attack combinations each at 11/6/1), if he keeps the shield he has better armor than Crystal. Either way, he has better average hit points, he has his favored enemy damage bonus, and Crystal is already wounded.

If Rich doesn't give her the protection of the Rule of Drama (probably via a magic item we have not yet seen), Crystal's toast.

Bozzok, now... he's a 17th level rogue or rogue/assassin combination, per his ability to sneak attack Haley; 12/7/2 is his attack combination... admittedly, with a long or bastard sword instead of a magic dagger. And average hit points for 17d6 is actually slightly less than Belkar's 12d8+1d12, unless Bozzok's CON bonus is substantial.

Frankly, in a straight-up meele, neither he nor Cystal are a match for Belkar individually. Bozzok might be able to take Belkar one-on-one... but it's not likely. Crystal, even were she not wounded, would never be able to do it the way the numbers work out. Put together, their flanking Belkar and racking up sneak attack damage would kill Belkar fast, but Bozzok's decision to leave and pursue Haley was a HUGE tactical error.

[KilltheToy]

Let the mass asskicking begin. Hopefully, Bozzok should have 5 or so arrows implanted in his chest within the next 10 strips.

Now I can kinda see Celia in a Spaceballs-esque moment

*Nameless Rogue fires arrow*
*Arrow hits Celia's hair*
Celia: "My hair! He shot my hair! That son of a.....!" :smallbiggrin:

[robertliguori]

Celia is an outsider (or extraplanar fey). The thing about both of those races is that they are pretty much immune to the ravages of time. There's a flip side to that, though; because you don't age, you don't naturally grow. Scars don't fade, your face doesn't pick up defining characteristics...and hair presumably doesn't grow at mortal rates.

For a better comparison from her point of view, imagine that Crystal did her number on Hailey's face as opposed to her hair. To an outsider, what Crystal did was a horrible violation of her person that cannot be easily corrected. Moreover, on the outer planes, function follows form; if you can control how something is perceived, you can exercise a surprising amount of control over the thing.

Now, Celia's been on the Prime for a while, yes, but she also sympathizes with Hailey a great deal*. If she had been in Hailey's place, she would be freaking out; ergo, she is doing her best to keep Hailey from freaking out.

She's not dumb. She's just inhuman, and from a place with very different rules.

And it's funny.

*Will refrain from making any comments about the fact that Elan doesn't seem the type to demand monogamy, and that Hailey is latently bisexual, and the above facts seem to be foreshadowing an event that will be positively...gleesome. Or thereabouts.

[Brasswatchman]

Whoops. Looks like Pete really did have a plan and a way to bail out his friends. A really self-serving plan, of course, but still... hm. Or did he just want revenge on the Thieves' Guild?


Also, gotta love Celia being all shallow and silly about the hair...kinda like the people who wouldn't shut up about it in the forums, now that I think about it...

I suspect that in her case, it's less about being shallow and more about focusing on something she can control in a stressful situation. Also, very funny.

[Nevrmore]

Celia has done nothing but be really, really annoying since she joined Haley and Belkar.

[Kilbia]

See...Celia's behavior in this strip is just like what I would expect out of my DM running certain NPCs. So I just have to laugh at it.

[Shadic]

Celia has done nothing but be really, really annoying since she joined Haley and Belkar.
She got them out of Azure City. They'd have been there until the end of time had Celia not told them to get out, and mentioned the Cloister Spell.

[valis]

Hey everybody I haven't posted in a while!

I'll be honest with y'all: I love the Redheads. (Gigitty.) You're all about to find out why. :smallcool:

[SteveMB]

So it maches Haley's new butch cut and latent bisexuality? Hmmm. I sense a bold new direction...

Or maybe it's a sign that she's sick of this emo crap and wants to get back to comedy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0319.html). :smallsmile:

[Doug Lampert]

Celia has done nothing but be really, really annoying since she joined Haley and Belkar.

Let's see, has she done anything really useful in say the last strip or so? Like say maybe saving Haley's life? Can you think of anything? Anything at all?

This one isn't that hard and it isn't long ago. Try actually LOOKING at what happens in 613 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html).

[Wolfram]

While that got a laugh out of me, does Roy really want everyone knowing he's got sylph?

Your pixie schtick is only somewhat amusing.

[Occasional Sage]

Your pixie schtick is only somewhat amusing.

But so tasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixy_Stix)!

[KuH]

Never been a Belkar fan. I did, however, like the 'not on your best day, tusky' comment ... and somehow find myself liking him more since his revelation.

Crystal's following the 'screw the halfling' command literally made me crack up. I never would have dreamed of that. Woo-hoo, Belkar!

[Assassin89]

We have to wait and see whether Crystal attempts to seduce Belkar or Crystal decides to kill Belkar.

[Half-Orc Rage]

That was pretty cool, not as great as the last few strips have been, but still entertaining. Belkar got to save the day, but Haley might get to take out the lead villain and get a cool new bow in the process. Then we get Roy's remains back, and maybe we can actually see him raised in the near future (it's been more than a 150 strips since he died!) and get some plot movement. The team getting back together and going after Xykon before he can trash the last two gates would be nice.

[ericgrau]

I'm gonna make a substitution of character traits theory, wherein character traits in present characters make up for traits that are absent for one reason or another in other characters:
Celia's girliness is to make up for Haley's recent plunge into seriousness due to all the drama she's had to face. Remember when Haley was girly and sweet? No Elan to fawn over and no other party leader to handle all the responsible stuff has dulled that. Celia fills the gap. Elan's likewise been getting Roy's missing quips, responsibilities and leadership (enough to direct the plot, at least). Belkar's changed from a sociopath kept in check by convenient circumstances to an unchecked sociopath and now back to a sociopath kept in check by "character development". It brings him back to interestingly kill-happy instead of annoyingly kill-happy like he was starting to get. In short, Celia's filling in for Haley, Elan's filling in for Roy, And imaginary-Shojo is prodding Belkar back to himself (but w/ less frequent need for supervision).

[LuisDantas]

There's no such thing as genetics here, and even if there was, they were all made by the same gods. No wonder pretty much anything can breed with anything in the setting.

Not really (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html). Nor do we have reason to believe that breeding rules in OOtS-world are unusual; one would expect humans to breed with humanoids, perhaps dragons, and probably not much else.

Also, I don't think it has been established that half-orcs are fertile.


On another matter: I think people are reading too much on Pete's return to the house. Of course he would return home, the only question was if it would happen before or after the conflict was finished.

I don't think there was any real hint that he wanted to participate on the fight, much less on Haley's side. It's possible, of course, but quite pointless unless he planned on leaving Greysky City immediately. He wouldn't want to make an active enemy out of the Thieve's guild when he had just convinced them not to take his eyes away again.

[Nevrmore]

She got them out of Azure City. They'd have been there until the end of time had Celia not told them to get out, and mentioned the Cloister Spell.

Let's see, has she done anything really useful in say the last strip or so? Like say maybe saving Haley's life? Can you think of anything? Anything at all?

This one isn't that hard and it isn't long ago. Try actually LOOKING at what happens in 613 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html).
Wow! From a reader's standpoint, that totally makes up for the fact that her character has become an incessant, whiny, self-righteous brat whose dialogue is nothing but triteness and exercise to sort through!

In layman's terms, the fact that she's been helpful doesn't mean that she hasn't been really, really annoying ever since she joined Haley and Belkar.

[DrivinAllNight]

Does it realy matter why Old Blind Pete came back to his house, it was his house after all, and do you think he expected Haley and the Sylph to last so long? Of course not, they were highly outnumbered, he was probably shocked to come home and find the thieves guild still in his house. The idea of going to the Den was probably to make sure no one took his stuff from it, wether that be Haley or someone from the Guild. He betrayed his CHILDHOOD friend, and LEFT HIM TO DIE, that alone is reason enough to not trust him, and to take what measures were needed to ensure your safety, you can't tell me you wouldn't have done the same thing in the CoL's shoes? Pete knows you too well, and the guild can chase you down with info he may know about you, and you don't feel like dying, so you kill him before he gets the chance to try and kill you again!!! And as for the eyes, it wouldn't have been that hard to find someone who could get him to some other city to have his eyes healed, and never have let the guild know he was sighted again.

[Aquillion]

Wow! From a reader's standpoint, that totally makes up for the fact that her character has become an incessant, whiny, self-righteous brat whose dialogue is nothing but triteness and exercise to sort through!

In layman's terms, the fact that she's been helpful doesn't mean that she hasn't been really, really annoying ever since she joined Haley and Belkar.The fact is, Roy has really terrible taste in women. We've all known it, so it's not that much of a surprise...

[ref]

Maybe that trophy is not a silver trophy, but an electrum trophy for that time he ended T-1st.

But who could have beaten/tied Eagle-eyed Pete? How about... Haley Starshine?

[Batmankoff]

I hope one of those bows is magical and, that there's some weapon for Celia

[Haliax]

Why would Celia need a weapon? she can shoot lightning from her fingers. But Haley deserves a magical bow by this time in the adventure. Maybe the arrows will be talking arrows always giving advice on howto shoot.

[SirEdward]

My bet is the guild has a standing deal with the temple of Loki and they'll all be brought back.

The guild, however, goes broke paying for it.

Meh, if I had anything to say, it would be this: Sell the corpses off to Grubwiggler against their current debt, and get Roy's bone-golem corpse back.

I'm sure Grubwiggler will get the *ahem* point when he see's Bozzak's body sorted in with the rest.

[David Argall]

Maybe that trophy is not a silver trophy, but an electrum trophy for that time he ended T-1st.

But who could have beaten/tied Eagle-eyed Pete? How about... Haley Starshine?

Origin
Roy: How would you rate your combat effectiveness?
Haley: Have you put any ranks into sense motive?
Roy: No
Haley: I am the world finest archer

Haley is better with a bow than in melee, but she is a rather so-so archer for her level, and her level has gone up quite a bit from her Greysky days. Not much chance at all she could have beaten Eagle-Eye Pete.

[ABB]

One thing's for sure, when Bozzack attacks haley and celia now, celia has zero excuse not to let off some lightning this time.

And if her lightning could make Thog holler, as tough as he is, it ought to have an effect on bozzy.

[MarkyMark]

Whoops. Looks like Pete really did have a plan and a way to bail out his friends. A really self-serving plan, of course, but still... hm. Or did he just want revenge on the Thieves' Guild.

Nah, the guild would just have Crystal gouge his eyes out again. And/or Loki Clerics after him for helping a renegade and "stealing" the regeneration of his eyes.

[Duos Greanleef]

I'm personally pleased that we're staying on this arc!


...Maybe the arrows will be talking arrows always giving advice on howto shoot.
This was my first thought...
http://www.giantitp.com/Images/bcx/MagicItems008.gif
:smalltongue:
Ok, so it's got next to nothing to do with your advice arrows, but my mind works like a chain link fence!

[MarkyMark]

Not really (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html). Nor do we have reason to believe that breeding rules in OOtS-world are unusual; one would expect humans to breed with humanoids, perhaps dragons, and probably not much else..

The nearest we have to Orcs here in The Real World are Gorillas.

Can we get half-Gorillas?

No.

Genetically impossible.

I think this indicates that genetics isn't usual.

(and don't get me started on a human-komodo half breed...)

[MarkyMark]

Why would Celia need a weapon? she can shoot lightning from her fingers. But Haley deserves a magical bow by this time in the adventure. Maybe the arrows will be talking arrows always giving advice on howto shoot.

Haley told us her bow was +3 when Crystal broke it with her +4 dagger.

[netdroid9]

Anyone else notice that Hailey's new haircut is exactly the same one the imaginary get-to-the-point Hailey had in #319 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0319.html)?

[David Argall]

One thing's for sure, when Bozzack attacks haley and celia now, celia has zero excuse not to let off some lightning this time.

And if her lightning could make Thog holler, as tough as he is, it ought to have an effect on bozzy.

High level rogues save easily vs lightning, and take no damage when they do. See 469 for example. Her lightning is pretty near useless except to wreck the place. Now acting as Haley transport...

[LuisDantas]

The nearest we have to Orcs here in The Real World are Gorillas.
(...)
(and don't get me started on a human-komodo half breed...)

Actually, I meant unusual for a D&D world. It's a shame that I forgot to indicate so in the final message.

Anyway, Orcs are sentient and capable of speech. Not to mention green and tusked. They don't resemble gorillas in any sense.

[warmachine]

How did Haley drink her potions if she's horizontal?

Yeah, I know that's a stupid question.

[Tyrmatt]

I'm personally pleased that we're staying on this arc!


This was my first thought...
http://www.giantitp.com/Images/bcx/MagicItems008.gif
:smalltongue:
Ok, so it's got next to nothing to do with your advice arrows, but my mind works like a chain link fence!
Deadeye Deegan and his Posse (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/yrVxj057tGfFgdJcn5r.html) Sounds like much more of a laugh to me.

[factotum]

Anyone else notice that Hailey's new haircut is exactly the same one the imaginary get-to-the-point Hailey had in #319 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0319.html)?

Only about 300 people since she first got her new haircut in strip #610...

[MarkyMark]

Actually, I meant unusual for a D&D world. It's a shame that I forgot to indicate so in the final message.

Anyway, Orcs are sentient and capable of speech. Not to mention green and tusked. They don't resemble gorillas in any sense.

Gorillas speak gorilla. It's not their fault we can only listen in incomprehension.

Gorillas: Strong. Bigger than us. Hairy. Tusked. Intelligent, but not as much as us.
Orcs: Strong. Bigger than us. Hairy (in some realms). Tusked. Intelligent, but not as much as us.

Not in any sense?

EDIT: PS where does genetics come into D&D? Orcs and humans breed traits half way between each race. Elves and humans breed traits half way between each race.

But a man and a woman human breed traits of one, the other, or a mix of both.

A fast horse breeding with a mother of fast horses tends to produce *faster* horses, not horses half way between the two.

Genetics in real life doesn't act like it does in D&D. And genetics isn't used to explain the half breeds.

[nybbler]

The colors of the arrows' fletching indicate their composition at least some of the time. Blue and red are cold iron and silver... have we seen yellow and orange?

:celia: And does a restoration spell work on hair?

[Shatteredtower]

Your pixie schtick is only somewhat amusing.

Pixie stick? I thought he was still calling it the trouser titan?

On the subject of Celia's more vacuous commentary, it may be that she's currently suffering from NPC syndrome: No matter how capable the non-player character ordinarily is, there will be times the character must act in an ineffective manner so as to leave the spotlight on the player characters.

(This rule also applies to romantic interests or other second stringers in their relations to main characters, though that's usually criticized as poor writing. Avoiding NPC syndrome in a D&D game, on the other hand, is considered good DMing. :smallwink: )

This isn't to say that she's entirely useless -- she has saved Haley twice in the last dozen strips after all. However, the first case ensured that Haley would make it to her encounters with Crystal and Bozzok. The second case had to wait for Belkar to "save the day", when the action only served to make sure that Belkar's effort would succeed (by denying Bozzok his coup de grace).

Currently, the condition is manifesting in "I'm just a silly girl!" state, where the character is unable to contribute anything meaningful to the planning of an important event. It can be a bit jarring, coming from the character who originally talked Haley onto the road from Azure City, but let's not forget that it continues a gag running since the last panels of strip 601 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0601.html).

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Not really (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html). Nor do we have reason to believe that breeding rules in OOtS-world are unusual; one would expect humans to breed with humanoids, perhaps dragons, and probably not much else.
Say what? Humans seem to breed with everything available! human/horse? Centaur! Human/goat? Satyr!
Plus half just about anything. Those wacky mages (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html)! They need an outlet! As long as you've got a mage. you've got true love, or the next best thing. :smallwink:



Also, I don't think it has been established that half-orcs are fertile.
Um, say what? Therkla's mother was fertile! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) :smalltongue:

I mean, seriously, how many kids do you want her to squeeze out to accept that orcs and humans like getting a bit freaky these days?

[Nevitan]

Um, say what? Therkla's mother was fertile! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) :smalltongue:

I mean, seriously, how many kids do you want her to squeeze out to accept that orcs and humans like getting a bit freaky these days?

Well Therkla's mother was also a full Orc, which is why Therkla was half human and not 3/4 human.
I'm not saying that Half Orcs aren't fertile, I'm just saying that that's not proof.

[Doug Lampert]

Wow! From a reader's standpoint, that totally makes up for the fact that her character has become an incessant, whiny, self-righteous brat whose dialogue is nothing but triteness and exercise to sort through!

In layman's terms, the fact that she's been helpful doesn't mean that she hasn't been really, really annoying ever since she joined Haley and Belkar.
You said, and I quote,
Celia has done nothing but be really, really annoying since she joined Haley and Belkar.

That does not match your current claim which concedes that she has in fact done many things other than being annoying and has both advanced the plot and substantially assisted the major characters.

Or to put it another way, you were wrong on the internet (http://xkcd.com/386/).

[Doug Lampert]

Well Therkla's mother was also a full Orc, which is why Therkla was half human and not 3/4 human.
I'm not saying that Half Orcs aren't fertile, I'm just saying that that's not proof.
Orcs and humans are universally refered to as races in the source material.

If they are not interfertile with viable offspring they should be considered different species. The use of the term race rather than species for the various humanoids should be taken to prove that they are mutually interfertile (or that the writers of the game didn't pay attention to what the words meant, but where's the fun in that).

[Liwen]

Wow, that's quite an impressive collection of weapon he had there. I wonder how many plusses they have.

Also, I bet she is going to get the tan one, the others colors just don't fit.

[Zienth]

Orcs and humans are universally refered to as races in the source material.

If they are not interfertile with viable offspring they should be considered different species. The use of the term race rather than species for the various humanoids should be taken to prove that they are mutually interfertile (or that the writers of the game didn't pay attention to what the words meant, but where's the fun in that).

The ability or lack thereof to produce fertile offspring is not the sole definition of speciation. Look at the dog and the wolf, they are seperate species (canis familiaris and canis lupus), yet they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring (and I challenge anyone to produce a natural offspring from a Chihuahua and a Great Dane, despite being the same species).

Now, some would say that dogs and wolves really should be considered the same species. There are good arguments either way. But would anyone argue that Lions and Tigers are the same species? Yet Ligers and Tigons have been produced, and some have proven to be fertile.

So arguing that two groups are the same species or not purely based on ability to interbreed isn't definitive.

[danielmayer]

Wow, weapons!!
But i sincerely hope she doesn't take the second bow from left... six cups, six bows. This specific one may well be cursed... :smalleek:

[David Argall]

The nearest we have to Orcs here in The Real World are Gorillas.
No. The chimp would be closer, and if we go back in time, we would be considering the Neanderthal.


Can we get half-Gorillas?

No.

Genetically impossible.
That depends on the definition used. A half-gorilla is a practical impossibility, just as is making a running car from half the parts from a caddy and half from a VW. The laws of genetics tell us why in the case of the half-gorilla. However, a good mechanic will tell you it can't be done in the case of the car either, and will procede to do it if you are crazy enough to hand him way more money than you should consider wasting. Our normal genetics situation lacks the mechanic and your wallet. Once we assume this is by magic or such, our laws of genetics work a lot better in a fantasy world than do the laws of physics.



I'm not saying that Half Orcs aren't fertile, I'm just saying that that's not proof.
There is not proof only in the sense nobody doubted it. Even ignoring the standard fantasy rule that 1 male[any type] + 1 female[any type] = 3, the half orc is routinely treated as fertile. One might go thru all the books and not find a statement saying "the half-orc is fertile", but one routinely finds NPCs who had a great grandfather who was an orc or... And the explanation for some of the feats is orc ancestry.



A fast horse breeding with a mother of fast horses tends to produce *faster* horses, not horses half way between the two.
Well, faster horses that are faster than when one of the parents is slow, but not faster than the parents. If anything, they are slower. This is because a fast race horse is close to being a perfect race horse, and so the random changes from mixing DNA is likely to product imperfections that lower performance. The result is that horse racing records can be generations old.

When we talk about more common traits, the result often is a mix of the two parents, somewhat around half-way between the two. Close enough for D&D work anyway.


Genetics in real life doesn't act like it does in D&D. And genetics isn't used to explain the half breeds.
Of course it is. Perhaps only at the grade school level of genetics, but it is used routinely.

[Limos]

I don't see why people decided to start freaking out about Half Orcs now of all times. I mean back when Therkla had her flashback sure, but right now does it really matter.

Where is the conflict anyway. This is a fantasy world. In fantasy most things can breed with most other things without consequences (except for the occaisional evil baby) or any regard to genetics.

Half orcs are around so that players can play an Orc without being trapped in the Always Chaotic Evil stereotype for Orcs. Does it really matter how the half orcs come about?

[Nevitan]

There is not proof only in the sense nobody doubted it. Even ignoring the standard fantasy rule that 1 male[any type] + 1 female[any type] = 3, the half orc is routinely treated as fertile. One might go thru all the books and not find a statement saying "the half-orc is fertile", but one routinely finds NPCs who had a great grandfather who was an orc or... And the explanation for some of the feats is orc ancestry.


Yeah, I assumed that Half Orcs are fertile, I'm just saying that if it's brought into question that doesn't prove that they are fertile.
But yeah, if they're feats explained by Orc ancestry and they don't have strict racial prerequisites then that pretty well locks in the fertility question.

[Fjolnir]

I think the book of erotic fantasy solves this problem by saying "while a halforc/halfelf/halfwhatever is fertile, any further breeding will dilute the bloodline to such as a full member of whatever race it is ie: the result of halforc+human= human with possible orcish qualities.

[OOTS_Echoes]

For some reason. When Celia was talking obsessively about the hair, it didn't seem out of character out all. It did seem like something one who put great deal into fashion did. Maybe it's because I have a teenage sister that the hair issue seemed like something someone would care about lol.

And when Bozzok said "Screw The Halfling" I thought that Belkar thought that Bozzok told Crystal to "screw the halfling" and Belkar for some reason didn't want to umm, give Crystal the Type-O Treasure Type.

Just a thought.

And awesome comic!

Ideas for next comic: Crystal leaves knowing she's outclassed. Belkar tries to go after her. Stopped by Hank and Fighter Outreach Program guy. Belkar fights, begins to lose: CRASH! Elan/Durkon or V comes in. (V would be more epic). Meanwhile, Boz v. Haley = Fly away, fly away. Boz catches up. Starts to beat on them. Haley tells Celia to fly away. Bozzok intercepts. Strikes her, but not killing her. As he goes to prepare the final blow, we cliffhanger to next comic. Afterwards. I'm thinking either Golem Roy or Ian comes in and saves Celia from... dying or w/e Sylphs do. Some neat wrap up, and the party is all together and happy again

[Draco Dracul]

The ability or lack thereof to produce fertile offspring is not the sole definition of speciation. Look at the dog and the wolf, they are seperate species (canis familiaris and canis lupus), yet they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring (and I challenge anyone to produce a natural offspring from a Chihuahua and a Great Dane, despite being the same species).


Dogs are subspecies of wolves, the full Scientific name of dog is Canis lupus familiaris. So technically all dogs are wolves.

[SirEdward]

Why would Celia need a weapon? she can shoot lightning from her fingers. But Haley deserves a magical bow by this time in the adventure. Maybe the arrows will be talking arrows always giving advice on howto shoot.
Rogues have disgusting reflex save bonuses and evasion. Generally, it's easier to snipe them, which isn't always very easy, with bows than with lightning (or other evocations).

[maxon]

Half orcs are around so that players can play an Orc without being trapped in the Always Chaotic Evil stereotype for Orcs. Does it really matter how the half orcs come about?

I thought when they developed the 4e it became an issue?

[Xorbon]

The dead guy in the bottom left of panel 8 has the same haircut as Haley!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That whole wall of weapons made my mind boggle for a second. That was awesome.

[Nevrmore]

You said, and I quote,

That does not match your current claim which concedes that she has in fact done many things other than being annoying and has both advanced the plot and substantially assisted the major characters.

Or to put it another way, you were wrong on the internet (http://xkcd.com/386/).
You are taking things too literally. Even while she is helping people, she's being really, really annoying, so her help means jack sh*t to me. Stop trying to pick apart my words just because I'm being oh noes mean.

[DigoDragon]

You don't see archers in the Olympics using $40 fiberglass WalMart bows. The best people at any activity tend to have the best tools.

In real life yes, but in fantasy the skilled ones can take a table leg and make it a deadly weapon. It just makes for more impressive storytelling. :smallwink: