Brainy Blind Eagle-Eye Pete's true motives

[Grushvak]

In 612 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0612.html), Brainy-Eye Pete claimed he only wanted to get to his den and "read a book or something" (2nd panel). To which the mook replied: "it wouldn't kill us to let you stay in-"

Now, stop there. Consider for a moment the fact that the mook's line is a clear indication that she -will- die, pretty soon. One of the basic rules in this kind of narrative: predicting no dire consequences attracts dire consequences.

Then, think about the huge arsenal that resides in the den (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0614.html). And how Blind-Eagle Pete now has his first chance in ages to practice archery again, while his house is full of low-level minions from the same guild that took his eyesight in the first place.

And, finally, ignore the fact that Belkar intervened and accomplished thief girl's self-prophesied demise earlier than expected. Wouldn't this be a perfect setup for Braineye-Eagle-Blind Pete's triumphant return, showering arrows on his former Thief's Guild colleagues?

I for one think Eagle-brained Blindeye Pete wasn't bluffing when he told CoL he came back to help them. I mean, why else would he walk back so soon into his house when he had every reason in the world to believe it would still be a battlefield?

[Mr._Michael]

On the other hand, he DID sell them out to get his eyes back. IF you are going to become a double-crosser, it pays to smooth the path with your intended allies by cluing them in AHEAD of time...

Saves lives. Predominantly your own. :smalltongue:

[RosesOnConcrete]

Yeah, second thoughts or no, he DID sell them out to the guild. Brain-drainage completely justified.

[Optimystik]

In the interest of sanity, can we just call him Pete?

And personally I don't care if Cole was premature or not, Pete had it coming.

[Assassin89]

If Pete said something along the lines of "I have some bad news. I have no choice but to surrender you three to the Thieves' Guild, but do not worry, I need to convince the thieves' guild to regenerate my eyes so that I can help you later" rather than saying he has to go to the little rouge's room he would be alive... or his death would come later by someone else's hands.

[Ridureyu]

Pete would've shot the cleric, Belkar, Haley, and Celia.

[Optimystik]

Pete would've shot the cleric, Belkar, Haley, and Celia.

Judging by that cane (and the ease with which his eyes were removed - twice), his Dex score has probably been aged to the nether regions. I really don't see him shooting anyone.

[RosesOnConcrete]

Judging by that cane (and the ease with which his eyes were removed - twice), his Dex score has probably been aged to the nether regions. I really don't see him shooting anyone.

Nah, it's the Lu-Tze rule - beware of wrinkly little old men. :smallamused: The cane could easily just be a diversion (no clue on the eyes thing, though - bad dice rolls? :P )

[Zeful]

Judging by that cane (and the ease with which his eyes were removed - twice), his Dex score has probably been aged to the nether regions. I really don't see him shooting anyone.

You are aware that blind people carry canes to keep them from running into stuff? Besides he wasn't so disabled as to be unable to walk home without it, so he physical stats likely have little decay. He's probably middle aged or old. So an 18-1 or 3 for a 17-15 dex. Not perfect, but assuming he's got a +3 bow or better on that wall.

Besides Pete was a sniper, he probably optimized for distance shots (negating the first couple of range increment penalty, maxxed hide and spot), not initiative. Crystal or another rogue could easily get the drop on him and blind him that way.

[Kaytara]

I too wondered why the hell he'd decided to come back to the house in the first place. However, even if he HAD planned on helping them... He had had no reason to expect that they would still be alive by that point, that the halfling would turn out to be a competent warrior Sexy Shoeless God of War after a simple Remove Curse spell and that they wouldn't roll badly on something and die many rounds earlier.
Even if he'd been planning to save them, he had no right to gamble with all of their lives like that.

[Ridureyu]

Judging by that cane (and the ease with which his eyes were removed - twice), his Dex score has probably been aged to the nether regions. I really don't see him shooting anyone.

All right. His MOTIVE was to shoot all of them.

[TheSummoner]

Funny how Pete only mentioned his idea to help them when he was pinned down, unable to escape, and staring into the face of justified bloody vengeance.

I'm not buying his lies.

[Tholok Razescar]

I too wondered why the hell he'd decided to come back to the house in the first place. However, even if he HAD planned on helping them... He had had no reason to expect that they would still be alive by that point, that the halfling would turn out to be a competent warrior Sexy Shoeless God of War after a simple Remove Curse spell and that they wouldn't roll badly on something and die many rounds earlier.
Even if he'd been planning to save them, he had no right to gamble with all of their lives like that.

Rule 533-A of Complete And Utter Doublecrossery: You can ALWAYS gamble with lives.

Incidentally, that's how I got my house." Bet you five bucks you won't get shot, and leave behind a faked will that states I get your house!" " Oh that is so a deal." " *Blam!* Hehe."

[David Argall]

I for one think Eagle-brained Blindeye Pete wasn't bluffing when he told CoL he came back to help them. I mean, why else would he walk back so soon into his house when he had every reason in the world to believe it would still be a battlefield?
Well, one reason is that he had stored a decade worth of unread Playboys there.

And he had no reason to think the battle was seriously still going on at that point. After all, Haley was no match for Bozzak or Crystal, much less both, and the cleric may be 10th level, but apparently is still just a wimp in combat. So who is going to threaten him? Some airhead lass or this halfling in a coma?

Granted, he should have spent some time in a strip bar instead, but the risk wasn't much, something like one in a million...

[factotum]

As I said in the discussion thread for 614, I think he was just coming back to get his bows before leaving town. He has no reason to trust that Bozzok will keep his word, after all.

[Aquillion]

You know, we might still find out -- if Durkon comes to this house later, and finds nothing but Eagle-Eye Pete's corpse, he might actually bring it back (or at least cast Speak With Dead) to find out what happened.

Of course, nothing stops Pete from lying then, too.

[King of Nowhere]

Pete was too low on levels to do something useful.
That's because Haley was no higher than level 6 when she left the city, so Crystal was the same level automatically, and since Cristal could take him alone, we can assume he was no better level than her at the time.
And I don't see him leveling up. So he had no more than five levels, even if he wanted he could have done nothing.
Oh, and I do not believe he wanted.

[Kurald Galain]

I suppose the next thing will be people proclaiming EEP a magnificent bastard...

[Demented]

I'm pretty sure that getting killed after having your foot stapled to the floor with a short sword is going to nix any chance of getting the Magnificent Bastard of the Year award.

You're almost guaranteed that EEP was intent on killing some rogues, though. Why? Because then Belkar solicited the murder of a future comrade in arms. Evil +1.

[EyethatBinds]

Of course, nothing stops Pete from lying then, too.

Actually the speak with dead spell compels the spirit to tell the truth or at least it's version of the truth. It cannot lie intentionally to the caster.

[Kinneus]

If you honestly believed Pete was telling the truth at the end there, then you sir are what we like to call a "sucker".

[Greep]

On the other hand, he DID sell them out to get his eyes back. IF you are going to become a double-crosser, it pays to smooth the path with your intended allies by cluing them in AHEAD of time...

Saves lives. Predominantly your own. :smalltongue:

Sorry about bringing star wars into this thread, but Lando Calerizean (sp?) sure as heck betrayed han solo & co. AND really did turn out to end up helping them after he got his (half-hearted) deal with darth vader. Course he almost ended up as wookie rag doll, but well, risks were made, and lando ended up alive rather than dead by Vader.

[Amarsir]

I'm with you Grushvak, I think this confirms that he really did want to help.

I mean come on, Pete wanted to read a book? Blind Pete wouldn't have any normal books, and I don't think the first thing you'd want to do when getting your eyesight back is pick up some Braile. Nor does it make sense that he'd want to sit in his room while the bloodshed was going on.

However, neither Belkar, Rogue Cleric, Haley, nor Celia could have known that, and half of them woulnd't have cared if they had. So I don't think it un-justifies what happened to him.

[Querzis]

I'm with you Grushvak, I think this confirms that he really did want to help.

I mean come on, Pete wanted to read a book? Blind Pete wouldn't have any normal books, and I don't think the first thing you'd want to do when getting your eyesight back is pick up some Braile. Nor does it make sense that he'd want to sit in his room while the bloodshed was going on.

You think he was trying to help...help who? Do I really have to point out that everyone expected them to be all dead at that point? Haley is no match for Bozzok and Crystal, the only reason everyone is still alive is because the halfling in a coma turned out to be a sexy shoeless god of war! Hell, OBP had no way of even knowing Haley was high level in the first place.

By the way, this was his home long before he became blind, he still had his bows and all his trophy in there so why the hell would you expect him to not have any normal books?

No seriously, how could anyone be fooled by that? And by the way, Lando didnt had any freaking choice! It was that or everyone, including him, would have been killed. It wasnt «I'm gonna let you guys get killed to get my eyes back». I dont even see how you can compare that.

[factotum]

Sorry about bringing star wars into this thread, but Lando Calerizean (sp?) sure as heck betrayed han solo & co. AND really did turn out to end up helping them after he got his (half-hearted) deal with darth vader. Course he almost ended up as wookie rag doll, but well, risks were made, and lando ended up alive rather than dead by Vader.

He only started helping them out because the deal he had with Vader kept changing for the worse--Calrisian was a smart fella and I think he saw the way the wind was blowing. If Vader had stuck to the original terms of his deal I reckon Lando would be ruling Cloud City still and the Rebellion would be nowhere...

[busterswd]

There are many other reasons Pet would want to be armed in a city full of backstabbing liars, aside from loyalty. Hell he might've been expecting Bozzok/Crystal to get worked down to low health and finished them both off himself.

[Underground]

I dont think it matters much, since we will never know.

Pete is dead and there is no sign of a chance of him getting raised from the dead, ever.

[Dublock]

Judging by that cane (and the ease with which his eyes were removed - twice), his Dex score has probably been aged to the nether regions. I really don't see him shooting anyone.

ok, I know I'm a little behind but I wanted to point out that Odysseus was a fine marksmen when he didn't shoot for 10 years (not to mention he was an old guy at the time)




I'm not sure if Pete wanted to help or not..but he should have made his intentions known to one side, because at the end no matter what you think he was trying to do, he showed his mysterious side and no one liked it so he suffered for it.

[Prowl]

I doubt he was really willing to help. How likely, from his point of view, would it be to see Haley & friends turn out the winner against the whole thieves' guild? If it were probable he would have asked the CoL to regenerate his eyes and brought down his weapons.

[Texas Jedi]

Sorry about bringing star wars into this thread, but Lando Calerizean (sp?) sure as heck betrayed han solo & co. AND really did turn out to end up helping them after he got his (half-hearted) deal with darth vader. Course he almost ended up as wookie rag doll, but well, risks were made, and lando ended up alive rather than dead by Vader.

As a Star Wars nerd I am insulted that you mention Lando and OBP in the same sentence. What they did was nothing similar. Lando was told by Vader that he would be left alone to run Cloud City. The only thing he would have to do is lead Han, Leia and others to the room to get confronted by Vader. Having Han tortured and handed over to Boba Fett was NOT a part of the original deal. The only thing Lando knew was that Han and party was going to be used as bait for Luke. I know he wouldn't have agreed to it if it involved torturing a good friend and handing him over to a bounty hunter. When the deal was altered Lando risked his own life and the lives of the people of Cloud City to help his friend.

OBP knew he was going to betray Haley and party as soon as the CoL got there. He lied about going to the restroom, and set it up so that everybody would die. While he was getting his eye sight back he assumed everybody in the house would be dead. He didn't count on the 4th wall to be broken and the party to figure out that they were in a trap. The only ONLY reason Pete came back to the house is because he was wearing Orange with Purple. He wanted to change his clothes. He only settled on the den because they wouldn't let him get into the house that far. The things he told the CoL before his death was only to stop the CoL from killing him. He didn't mean a word of it. Once a vile betrayer always a vile betrayer.

[KillianHawkeye]

Lando Calerizean


Calrisian

BTW, it's Lando Calrissian. And yeah, not a really good comparison to (Insert Description) Pete. The circumstances are far too different.

[SteveMB]

By the way, this was his home long before he became blind, he still had his bows and all his trophy in there so why the hell would you expect him to not have any normal books?

For that matter, restoring his eyesight wouldn't make him forget how to read Braille (assuming something like that exists in the OotS-verse).

That said, yeah, I think he was just BSing and intended to retrieve what he could from the weapon case and vamoose.

[Chronos]

Well, one reason is that he had stored a decade worth of unread Playboys there.Aren't most Playboys unread?

[mikeejimbo]

On the other hand, he DID sell them out to get his eyes back. IF you are going to become a double-crosser, it pays to smooth the path with your intended allies by cluing them in AHEAD of time...

Saves lives. Predominantly your own. :smalltongue:

It would have been triple crossing in that case.

[robertliguori]

My theory is that he was intent on revenge first and foremost. His plan was probably set the adventurers and the Guild on each other, then pop in to murder Crystal and any other Guild in the area.

Sadly for him, he didn't count on the Guild coming in force, or Belkar killing how Belkar kills best.

[fangthane]

Pete (aka B.O.B.E.E.P.) was just playing the standard evil position.
He knew the guild would take his eyes (again) if he had them regenerated (again) unless he'd made some arrangement with them to avoid that fate, so he cut a deal.
He realised when he arrived back home that the fight was still ongoing, and decided to hit the Den to grab his gear so he'd have a fighting chance if the battle came his way; unfortunately for him it came his way at just the wrong time.
When pinned to the floor, he realised that a) our protagonists were doing much better than he'd expected*, at least locally if not globally, and that b) they were justifiably annoyed at his treachery, so he tried to bluff it out. It's just too bad (for him) that Sense Motive is a wisdom-based skill and he was trying to bluff a cleric.

*I also think the Belkster's unbridled ferocity and combat effectiveness took him a little aback; I know people have been surprised in my campaigns when the kobold/goblin/halfling "sidekick" turns out to actually be the BBEG.

Incidentally, OP, you missed "Old." :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

Aren't most Playboys unread?

No, no. Just ask anybody caught with one. He is only looking at the articles.

[kpenguin]

I suppose the next thing will be people proclaiming EEP a magnificent bastard...

This. This right here.

[Assassin89]

Pete (aka B.O.B.E.E.P.) was just playing the standard evil position.

When pinned to the floor, he realized that a) our protagonists were doing much better than he'd expected*, at least locally if not globally, and that b) they were justifiably annoyed at his treachery, so he tried to bluff it out. It's just too bad (for him) that Sense Motive is a wisdom-based skill and he was trying to bluff a cleric.



You also forgot to mention that selling out the Cleric of Loki gives a +5 or a +10 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm) to the DC for a successful bluff

[Studoku]

No, no. Just ask anybody caught with one. He is only looking at the articles.
That's why the articles are there.

The only other theory would be that people actually read them- which is just silly.

[Nevrmore]

I mean, why else would he walk back so soon into his house when he had every reason in the world to believe it would still be a battlefield?
Because he has absolutely no reason to believe that his house would still be a battlefield? The entire Thieve's Guild versus two girls, an indisposed halfling, and a cleric? Yeah, that really sounds like something you'd think would take several days to play out.

[Warlord JK]

Old Blind Pete may have actually been going to help. However, it is far more likely he was going to grab his best bow and change his clothes and get the hell out of there. His attempt to not be killed was just that, a bluff to not get killed.

[Greep]

As a Star Wars nerd I am insulted that you mention Lando and OBP in the same sentence. What they did was nothing similar. Lando was told by Vader that he would be left alone to run Cloud City. The only thing he would have to do is lead Han, Leia and others to the room to get confronted by Vader. Having Han tortured and handed over to Boba Fett was NOT a part of the original deal. The only thing Lando knew was that Han and party was going to be used as bait for Luke. I know he wouldn't have agreed to it if it involved torturing a good friend and handing him over to a bounty hunter. When the deal was altered Lando risked his own life and the lives of the people of Cloud City to help his friend.

OBP knew he was going to betray Haley and party as soon as the CoL got there. He lied about going to the restroom, and set it up so that everybody would die. While he was getting his eye sight back he assumed everybody in the house would be dead. He didn't count on the 4th wall to be broken and the party to figure out that they were in a trap. The only ONLY reason Pete came back to the house is because he was wearing Orange with Purple. He wanted to change his clothes. He only settled on the den because they wouldn't let him get into the house that far. The things he told the CoL before his death was only to stop the CoL from killing him. He didn't mean a word of it. Once a vile betrayer always a vile betrayer.

Well I personally think the analogy isn't too bad. Lando was a political leader. How does a politician NOT know Vader was lying his butt off? He knew it would probably happen, but he was probably just hoping it didn't. Han & co were totally defenseless. OBP, however, sold out his friends who were considerably more powerful and stood a decent chance against the enemies anyways. A high level thief, cleric, and fighter (who the cleric could cure any time) aren't exactly defenseless :D

[BRC]

I have not read the entire thread, so pardon me if this has been adressed because it probably has.
I believe that he may have been trying to rescue Haley and all, however, that dosn't make his plan anything but self-serving. How could he have been sure that his eyes would get regenerated and he would get back fast enough to save them all, or that Bozzok wouldn't say "Alright Pete, you wait here with a guild member, once we've killed starshine you can go and get your eyes regenerated, just to make sure you arn't lying to us". And he may have been one of the guild's best Snipers, but that dosn't mean he could have been much help in a close-quarters melee fight against a swarm of rogues, so I doubt he would have counted on being able to take out the entire guild.

[MarkyMark]

Well I personally think the analogy isn't too bad. Lando was a political leader. How does a politician NOT know Vader was lying his butt off? He knew it would probably happen, but he was probably just hoping it didn't. Han & co were totally defenseless. OBP, however, sold out his friends who were considerably more powerful and stood a decent chance against the enemies anyways. A high level thief, cleric, and fighter (who the cleric could cure any time) aren't exactly defenseless :D

And if Han is in the millenium falcon, the fastest heap of junk in space, Vader would not have caught them. If they'd been told Vader was there, they have a Jedi and a proto-Jedi and a man who has lived a long and dangerous life amongst the scum of the universe.

And what level are Han, Leia and Luke in the star wars RPG? They aren't first level mooks. The only ones with levels are higher level commanders (who NEVER go on the front line) and Vader.

Vader == Bozzok (a few levels higher than any of the party)
Han == Belkar
Luke == Haley
Leia == Celia (though Leia is the same sort of level as the other two)
Cole == Chewie

Seems pretty similar to me.