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View Full Version : Iron Heroes - What's money for??



bbugg
2008-12-10, 09:49 AM
As far as I can tell, unlike D&D, there isn't really practical magical equipment available for adventurers in IH. The manual also doesn't describe any exotic materials or alchemical items (alchemical fire, thundfersticks, etc.) either.
I think this is because IH is trying (successfully) to put to focus on the character, not thier equipment. I like this. However, it begs the question "what's money for in IH?" What do characters do with all the loot they amass? After their first adventure, they can live comfortably for a year or more. In D&D you're always saving for the next big purchase. Here, with that motivation removed, are characters supposed to care about money? Or do you play it more 'real world' where they buy a house, maybe eventually a castel, etc.
Or should I just introduce all of the non-magical alchemical items and exotic materials?? What do you guys do?

Nero24200
2008-12-10, 10:16 AM
Personally, I would prefer to play it like RL

One thing to remember is that what you loot from fallen foes will be significantly less, since they too won't be saving up for a big buy.

Satyr
2008-12-10, 10:16 AM
In the Iron Heroes DMG, there are several 'wealth feats' that are bought with gold, like Cohorts, Manses or social and political influence. The same book also include rules for masgical items and how they interfere with the campaign.

Besides, in Iron Heroes and the strong Sword and Sorcery influence, I would suggest to let the players spend most of their money on barrels of wine, orgies and general festivities. Let their money ran through their fingers for living the good life. It's called Iron Heroes, not iron accountants, and that fits with almost compulsive spending. The Conan RPG, that has a very similaqr focus of the gamem, includes the rules that an adventurer spends at least 50% of his wealth on whoring and boozing, and this is very good base line for Iron Heroes as well.

ShaggyMarco
2008-12-10, 10:23 AM
In the Mastering Iron Heroes book there are wealth feats that, unlike normal feats, don't cost feat slots. You just have to spend money to take them.

They give you abilities like being able to get out of jail free in a certain city (you've wined and dined the right people/bribed enough officers of the watch, etc.), or a stronghold/headquarters with staff.

Otherwise, money is not a meaningful player reward for Iron Heroes. Will their characters still want cash? Sure--but if your PCs play for cool new items, this system won't make them happy.

bosssmiley
2008-12-10, 11:04 AM
What do characters do with all the loot they amass?

Squander it on ale and wenches in time for the next exciting episode. Do you know nothing of the genre of heroic fantasy? :smallwink:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 11:07 AM
What do you think money is for? You buy things with it. Historically, these things did not include magical items. (Well, not real ones, and not that expensive ones, anyway.)

You buy friends and influence. You buy land. You buy soldiers. You buy peerage. The options are endless.

Evil DM Mark3
2008-12-10, 11:09 AM
Wine
Women
Song.

Another_Poet
2008-12-10, 12:12 PM
In keeping with the above ideas, here are some historic examples that are a little more specific than just "booze and women!"

Rare animals!
*The King of Norway used to purchase polar bears for his circus from his Greenland settlers. The growing season in Greenland was only 3 months long or so, but once a year the settlers would send out the majority of their able-bodied men in longboats instead of having them help with the farming. These men would row for 4 weeks in icy sea conditions, capture a polar bear alive, tie it up, and row four weeks back down the shore with it sitting next to them. The polar bears then had to be shipped over a thousand miles back to Norway, still alive. The king paid so much for these animals (usually in raw iron and other supplies) that when he stopped sending ships, everyone in Greenland starved to death.

Ornate ceremonial pieces!
*The Qin emperor commisioned a suit of armour to be made out of solid jade. That's right, solid jade plate mail. How was it held together? Tiny holes were tapped through the edges of the jade pieces with metal tools, and then gold wire was used to sew the jade plates together like lamellar armour. In case we don't have any stoneworkers here, the DC to do something like that in jade is probably about 40 or so. The emperor liked it so much he ordered a second one!

Define "wine, women and song" again?
*Leaders of warbands in ancient Europe were expected to provide unlimited meat and alcohol for their warriors whenever they showed up at the feasting hall. Since war was not conducted in wintertime, almost all of the warriors spend almost every night from November to May at this all-you-can-gorge buffet. (Luckily the warriors were quite capable of prividing their own music, but a minstrel wouldn't go amiss either.) The chief or king's wife also had to be well-supplied with gold, because as she went from warrior to warrior serving the mead she was expected to hand out gifts of jewellery or ceremonial weapons to each man. It was understood that these gifts came as rewards from the king, but she was the one in charge of doling them out.

*Some tribal kings of the transalpine Gauls are on record for throwing feasts for every single person in the tribe. These feasts might last several days or so and had to accomodate the 3,000 - 10,000 members of the tribe plus any slaves or visitors they happened to bring along.

What do you mean I can't buy a headquarters?
*Typically, land was only gained if it was given by the king as a gift. If you were lucky it might already have a fort or castle but more likely you'd have to build one. The process could take 3-15 years and cost 6,000 - 30,000 pounds sterling in the Middle Ages! On average, even with several thousand workers, a castle under construction would only get about 10 feet taller for each year of work. Completing a tall keep might take a decade.

*Cathedrals, being just as big as castles but often far more elabourate, in some cases took 100-180 years to finish. This slow construction rate could only be partly solved by money; large sections of cathedrals frequently collapsed during construction, setting back years of work and possibly killing the most skilled craftsmen in the kingdom.

The realities of war!
*An adventurer with friends or family might want to keep a stockpile of coin or metal ingots hidden somewhere. A common tactic in medieval warfare is not to kill, but to capture an enemy leader and then ransom him back to his nation. It'd be nice for a PC to have a little insurance policy when this kind of thing happens.

The above are just a few of the medieval uses for wealth that I can think of. If I were an adventurer with extra gold and no magic item shop, I think I would start building a moderate fort, order a couple of trained lions, have a "free room and board for anyone who shows up" policy at the hall (with a "no peasants allowed" sign) and stash a chest of spices or silver in a hidden vault in the dungeon. All told I could easily spend the entire wealth-by-level of an 8th level D&D character that way, and have no new gear to show for it.

Just a thought.

ap

Kami2awa
2008-12-10, 12:14 PM
It's called Iron Heroes, not iron accountants.

Brillant quote :)

bbugg
2008-12-10, 12:47 PM
Thanks for all the input folks!

I had forgotten about that chapter in Mastering IH.

I like the idea of wealth points as a money sink - they get something, but it's not a straigt up purchase.

What do you think about alchemic items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#specialSubstancesAndItems)and exotic materials (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm)in IH?

Satyr
2008-12-10, 01:06 PM
Both work, but should be used rarely and created as extremely valuable iterms that are given out as rewards for heroic deeds, exotic materials much more so than alchemy products.

Evil DM Mark3
2008-12-10, 01:12 PM
There are some situations where they might fit but, um, I would make them very rare. Like the king of a large nation might own an Adamantine blade, but you are not going to see any for sale ever.

As for alchemicals, I might expect to see them for sale in small numbers in large cities, but not for the values you see there. Make it more expensive.

Roderick_BR
2008-12-10, 02:07 PM
Hah. I used to ponder the same thing when I played AD&D. The core books didin't have official prices for magic itens, so my group made lists based on the "XP awards", but mostly we would waste the virtual money away.
Ironically, in one of my last 3.5 games, my group also used money to buy a fort, and hire soldiers.

Yahzi
2008-12-10, 08:43 PM
"what's money for in IH?"

'Endless money forms the sinews of war' - Cicero

Caewil
2008-12-10, 11:22 PM
You could use it to cause inflation.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-11, 12:55 AM
Wine
Women
Song.

Ah, the good old days. Now it's all about drugs, sex, and rock'n'roll.

monty
2008-12-11, 01:01 AM
What's it good for?
Absolutely nothing.

Say it again, y'all.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-11, 01:10 AM
What's it good for?
Absolutely nothing.

Say it again, y'all.Wait, are we talking about IH or the modern economy?

Grynning
2008-12-11, 01:11 AM
What's it good for?
Absolutely nothing.

Say it again, y'all.

Mercy! Uh-huh...

WAR!

...is expensive, as someone pointed out above. Medieval commanders used to field armies in the tens of thousands. Granted, most RPG's don't model that scale of combat, but it could be used as a story element. Having the players finance a war, a revolution, a coup or something like that would all be good uses of their hard-earned (usually stolen?) scrathc.