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View Full Version : [3.5]suggestion for high CHA character



zerombr
2008-12-10, 05:00 PM
I recently restarted a game where i was playing a PLD/CRU with high CHA, (with my recently bestowed Saint template and cloak, I'm sitting at 31)

we're just now going to venture into epic levels, and since i'll be dragging behind the party a little, since i have ECL 22 now, i have a little more time on my hands to decide, what exactly should I take a level of next, and what feat to take at 21.

Character is a Human
5PLD/11CRU/1Pious Templar/2Sword of Righteousness/1PAR
Sword and Board build mostly, no Power attack, (STR is just shy of it for now)

any ideas?

DownwardSpiral
2008-12-10, 05:15 PM
Edit: By bad, read CRU as CLR. Don't ask how.

....More crusader levels?

Tacoma
2008-12-10, 05:28 PM
Get Leadership and have your cohort built specifically to do all the grungework. Let him take all the feats and skills and spells and such that nobody else wants. You can give him XP so have him do item creation.

You don't have to pay your followers wages. Have them all be Experts who take the Skill Focus feat and churn out crafts all day at home. Your highest level Expert follower will take ranks and the Skill Focus in Profession: Merchant and will handle all the marketing and selling. Your second highest follower takes Profession: Lawyer and handles all the legal aspects of the business. The next highest takes Profession: Business Organization and handles feeding / clothing / housing the laborers. The next takes Profession: Accountant and handles the books and taxes.

Best of all, they can build the sweatshop they'll work in. All you need to do is buy the land. And your cohort is there along with all these high level Experts, in a well-built sweatshop, you really don't need to worry about guards and such. The city guards should suffice. And except for the small amount of funds required to maintain the business the rest is sent to you through a small ring gate or something. Theft isn't really an issue.

And if your cohort is a Cleric he can handle all the Create Food and Water, Cure Disease, Dispel Exhaustion, and even Raise Dead.

EDIT: Let us continue this.

Your Businessman follower is going to offer business seminars for a significant fee. Anyone who wants to join your organization can do so but they'll need to sign up for a training program. The requirement is that they pick up the Leadership feat and leave their followers to work in your sweatshop. You provide the infrastructure and the system, they gain certification in your system, and they can go out and adventure. For the cost of a feat, knowing they can still pull their followers out if they need them for whatever reason, the graduate adventurer gives you 30% of the net profit his followers create in your sweatshops.

We can expect that virtually anyone who wants to pick up the Leadership feat anyway is going to jump at this. They don't take their followers on adventures anyway - they'd just die all the time and they don't gain XP anyway.

EDIT2: You're a paladin. So it's not a "sweatshop" it's an "urban renewal initiative". Also, your Epic feat choices are far better than Leadership even if you really twist every drop out of it like this. So unless you have a free standard feat choice, please feel free to ignore me.

zerombr
2008-12-10, 06:18 PM
Firstly, Tacoma, thank you for such a thought out post, funny thing is, one of the other characters has been the 'city renewal' expert for quite a bit, and has land and a title now, he has several banks, and training schools, a library and whatnot. I had taken Leadership at one time, *and retrained it to something else* mainly because I'm in a pretty large group, and an extra cohort would just slow down combat even further, though having him stay out of combat might be entertaining.
It is an impressive idea to get other players to take leadership as well, and have all their collective experts come together for a common goal, very interesting as well.

Here I was expecting a simple line like 'Take a level of marshal, and Combat panache" (which I was seriously considering)

Tacoma
2008-12-10, 06:32 PM
If he has multiple banks, and he isn't the owner of multiple towns yet, he is doin it rong. Wealth of Nations ftw.

zerombr
2008-12-10, 06:36 PM
lol, I don't think he wants to bigfoot the GM *that* much, though knowing him, it's in the works that he wants his own kingdom....on someone else's land.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-10, 06:44 PM
Okay, so you've got sword and board as a paladin with turn attempts, but you turn as a 2nd level cleric, so they're mostly worthless.

Have you given thought to Divine Feats that eat up Turn attempts to do stuff? There was one that let you add your Charisma modifier to your Shield's AC or something like that which might be useful. Also Glorious Weapons which allow your allies to gain aligned weapons to bypass certain types of DR. Spontanious Healer might be a good feat to pick up so you can be a backup healer in case the main healer goes down.

If you've got a sneak attacker in the party, and have any White Raven maneuvers, you may wish to consider the tactical feat Clarion Call, which lets you make an Intimidate check, flat DC of 20, to be able to declare that opponent flanked. Since your opponent is declared flanked, it even bypasses normal immunity to flanking like Improved Uncanny Dodge, so your sneakier comrade can shank him.

Keld Denar
2008-12-10, 06:46 PM
Well, for levels, you already qualify for Ruby Knight Vindicator, which is a LOT of fun. Check it out in ToB. You can spend turn attempts to recover maneuvers early, rather than waiting for them to refresh on their own. Great if you want to spam one of your high level maneuvers, like Strike of Righteous Vitality. Later you get Divine Impetus which gets you an extra swift action per round in exchange for a turn attempt. Use the extra action to initiate a swift action maneuver (Shadow Blink!), or cast an extra swift action spell (get Battle Blessing, and all of your pally spells are swift).

I'd get that str up to take Power Attack, because PA is a prereq for Divine Might, which adds your +cha to damage for a round in exchange for a turn attempt. You don't even have to use PA to take advantage of this. If you don't already have it, also take Divine Shield. It adds your +cha AGAIN to your AC as long as you have a shield. Get your shield Animated (+2, DMG) and wield your weapon with both hands, you'll do a bit more damage at no loss to your AC.

zerombr
2008-12-10, 06:54 PM
If you've got a sneak attacker in the party, and have any White Raven maneuvers, you may wish to consider the tactical feat Clarion Call, which lets you make an Intimidate check, flat DC of 20, to be able to declare that opponent flanked. Since your opponent is declared flanked, it even bypasses normal immunity to flanking like Improved Uncanny Dodge, so your sneakier comrade can shank him.


hmm interesting idea, so Clarion Call overrules Improved Uncanny? I do have a shanker in the party that'd love that...hmmm

btw thanks for all the great ideas, I had considered RKV, but I know some of my party members don't care for Bo9S, despite the GM allowing it, so I've decided, so far, to let that dog lie as it is, though without Crusader I'd be severely lacking in melee.

Tacoma
2008-12-10, 07:00 PM
Side note: I would be very happy if you could get feats together that eventually let you turn every creature type.

Such a thing would be glorious.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-10, 07:06 PM
hmm interesting idea, so Clarion Call overrules Improved Uncanny? I do have a shanker in the party that'd love that...hmmm

btw thanks for all the great ideas, I had considered RKV, but I know some of my party members don't care for Bo9S, despite the GM allowing it, so I've decided, so far, to let that dog lie as it is, though without Crusader I'd be severely lacking in melee.

Improved Uncanny Dodge means he cannot be flanked unless you're a rogue at least four levels higher. However, Clarion Call is a fiat 'YOU ARE FLANKED, DEAL WITH IT', so the rogue no longer needs to be at least four levels higher, as he is already assumed to BE flanked, your rogue buddy simply gains the benefit from it.

As far as levels, may suggest a level of Bard? Then you can pick up Song of the White Raven so your Crusader levels stack with Bard levels for Inspiration, give the party some extra bonuses if you don't already have a bard in the party.

goram.browncoat
2008-12-11, 06:21 AM
A dip in marshal can be fun if you have pimp charisma. A one level dip gives you and your allies a bonus to something equal to your cha bonus. Stuff like 'flanking damage' or 'charge damage' can add up to alot with 30+cha.

A fun one if youre in a mostly caster party is bonus to overcome SR. +10 to overcome SR is generally almost equal to autosucceed.

Stunning surge weapons give monklike stunning attacks with use/day AND Dc based on charisma. Though at epic this will probably be mostly wasted due to everything and its dog having stun immunity.

monty
2008-12-11, 06:28 AM
A dip in marshal can be fun if you have pimp charisma. A one level dip gives you and your allies a bonus to something equal to your cha bonus. Stuff like 'flanking damage' or 'charge damage' can add up to alot with 30+cha.

When in doubt, Dexterity checks. Everybody can use more initiative.