Questions about undead

[Daran]

Greetings to you, mighty Adventurers :smallwink:
I bring upon thee a quest with no material rewards and only little XP - whoops shouldn't have said that ... :smallbiggrin:

My knowledge about D&D rules is not that high.
So when I read the comic about Haley worrying that Roys corpse might have been turned into an undead after Azure City fell I wondered ...

If a PC/NSC has been turned into an undead (Zombie for example) is it possible to reverse the effect? Is ist necessary to kill him as an undead and revive him afterwards? Is the spell raise dead/ressurection and the Zombified body necessary? Or is this a job for true ressurection and the body (still walking or not) is unnecessary?

How does reviving a zombified/skeleton-fied/whatever-fied character work?

Now go forth brave Adventurers and slay the Demon called unknowledge.

Thanks :smallsmile:

[RMS Oceanic]

If a body has been used to make an undead, its previous owner cannot be resurrected until the undead is destroyed. Bodies that have been previously used as undead can only be revived with Resurrection or True Resurrection (7th and 9th level spells), even if you're still within the time limit of Raise Dead (5th level spell).

[Daran]

Oh quick answer, thank you.

But how does that apply to vampirism? Destroying the body means killing the entire body - by sunlight or a wooden stick trough the heart. Is there some kind of dust left behind for a Ressurection spell?
As I understood True Res. would work without a body anyway but Ressurection needs some remains.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think dust that used to be alive would count as part of the body.

[Tempest Fennac]

Ashes from a Disintegrate spell can be used with Resurrection, so Vampire dust should count as remains here as well.

[Iain]

Destroying the body means killing the entire body - by sunlight or a wooden stick trough the heart. Is there some kind of dust left behind for a Ressurection spell?

There's no reason why a stake through the heart should destroy the body, unless your campaign is set in the world of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series.

[Daran]

There's no reason why a stake through the heart should destroy the body, unless your campaign is set in the world of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series.

Goooooo Buffy - Heavens no - slay that bi***!

Like I said i'm not too confident with the rules. so how *does* one slay a Vampire to D&D-Term outside of the Buffy Universe? :smallamused:
Except by slashing at them with Roys sword perhaps?

[RMS Oceanic]

This link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) should explain how Vampires work in the D&D system. Two rounds worth of direct exposure to sunlight does the trick, for example.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The base D&D vampires (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersTtoZ.html#vampire) from the Monster Manual and SRD are based on the traditional Bram Stoker vampire. So killing one (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersTtoZ.html#Vampire_Weaknesses) requires the traditional tactics: sunlight, running water, or a stake throught the heart followed by bodily dismemberment. Of course the wording is such that a vampire slain with a stake counts as dead (for real) even without the dismemberment, so you could stake the body and then raise the subject without the dismemberment.

[Iain]

Aye, sorry, I should have been clearer - whilst exposing a vampire to sunlight will likely leave you with ashes (and maybe bones too), staking it through the heart should kill it and leave a corpse that could be Raised. Unless your DM has other ideas, of course!

[Daran]

This link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) should explain how Vampires work in the D&D system. Two rounds worth of direct exposure to sunlight does the trick, for example.

Neat Website, thx for the link. There it goes under my bookmarks.
Answered a lot of my left questions.

But what's up with "They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so."? Where did that origin from? Anyone knows?

[RMS Oceanic]

Again, that's a Bram Stokeresque Vampire Trope. If I recall, Dracula couldn't enter private property without express permission from someone with authority to grant it.

[Iain]

I think it's older than that - some mythologies hold that various supernatural and/or malign entities (faries, demons, the dead, traffic wardens, etc.) can't enter a dwelling without an invitation. I think these stories were just worked into the vampire ones (as with the idea of running water providing a barrier).
I imagine it all ultimately goes back to stories spun long ago by parents, told to their children on dark nights - warning them not to let strangers in, or trying to make them feel safe at home in their beds. Maybe I'm taking the origin further back than you were looking for, though!

[Daran]

Sorry for not posting and thanking you all. Had a serious fight with the internet-connection-Demon. He didn't even drop any treasure :smallannoyed:

Hmm might be true with the mix of stories from parents about strangers etc. into vampire aspects.

Still it would be funny to know that you have a vampire in front of your house door and he can't come in :smallbiggrin:
but i guess he would just use his gaze attack i guess to lure one out? or are they prohibited from doing so to someone inside their house, too?
i didn't read anything about that though.

[mikeejimbo]

Again, that's a Bram Stokeresque Vampire Trope. If I recall, Dracula couldn't enter private property without express permission from someone with authority to grant it.

Actually, no. It just had to be a "resident", even if they shouldn't have such authority.

Dracula spoiler to follow.

In the book, Dracula was able to get into an asylum after one of the inmates granted him permission, and I don't believe that the caretakers would have approved!

[Daran]

Actually, no. It just had to be a "resident", even if they shouldn't have such authority.

Dracula spoiler to follow.

In the book, Dracula was able to get into an asylum after one of the inmates granted him permission, and I don't believe that the caretakers would have approved!

So .... if a Vampire could smuggle a Human working for him in a house, mansion, etc. he could be "invited" by that human "resident" later and enter that certain place?
Now *that* would be sneaky :smallbiggrin:
But I'm not sure if it would apply ...

[Hydro Globus]

Strictly by the rules, it would. Maybe that's why D&D changed it... Too many sneaky players already.

[whitelaughter]

Oh, it definitely applies. In the first Ravenloft novel, vampires were let into a dwelling by another vampire! Basically, once you've found a loophole, collect your reward of juicy sleepy bloodbag mortals!

[Evil DM Mark3]

There is a slight error in your answer. Being raised as an unintelligent undead (such as a zombie) does nothing to your soul (whereas being intelligent undead does) and as such, so long as you have a body portion Resurrection still works and True Resurrection will work regardless.

So zombie = ok
Vampire = not ok.

[Kish]

In the first Ravenloft novel, vampires were let into a dwelling by another vampire!
Err, that would still apply, since Strahd was able both to enter that house without invitation and then to invite the other vampires in because, as lord of the land, Strahd was classified as the owner of the house (even more than the humans who lived in it).

[Hydro Globus]

Wait... if a vampire proclaims himself the Lord of the World and 1.) no one holds that title already and 2.) there is no one present to object to his claim, can said vampire go anywhere?

[Kish]

Wait... if a vampire proclaims himself the Lord of the World and 1.) no one holds that title already and 2.) there is no one present to object to his claim, can said vampire go anywhere?
That depends entirely on how that vampire's DM usually deals with munchkins, I'd say.

[The Minx]

Wait... if a vampire proclaims himself the Lord of the World and 1.) no one holds that title already and 2.) there is no one present to object to his claim, can said vampire go anywhere?

If different parts of the world already have rulers, lordship of any given region would be contested.

Anyway, Strahd was a noble by birthright, not arbitrary claim, and Ravenloft granted Strahd his authority as a Darklord, so that's different.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

This is all good info, but how does this affect Roy? Is Roy an undead, or a construct? As far as I can tell, a bone golem is a construct and not undead.

So, if your bones are used to make a golem, can you resurect from the leftovers (if any)?

AND

What if there are bones from multiple people? I remember back in the day bone golems were built from several bodies, and had four arms. In fact, wasn't Frankenstein's monster built from several sources?

(Sorry if I'm derailing this, but since this did start with Roy's corpse, I thought I should point out that golems and undead are different things)

[Jasdoif]

This is all good info, but how does this affect Roy? Is Roy an undead, or a construct? As far as I can tell, a bone golem is a construct and not undead.A golem is a construct, yes. As Grubwiggler attested to. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0576.html)


So, if your bones are used to make a golem, can you resurect from the leftovers (if any)? Certainly. Resurrection just needs a piece of the body from when it died, and bone fragments certainly count. (Aside, but one of the more amusing question-and-answers in the 3.5 FAQ is that you can cast resurrection on dragonhide armor to return whatever dragon it was made from to life.)

You'd need to destroy the golem (or somehow remove a piece of it) first, however. Aside from general similarity to needing to destroy an undead creature using the body, the rule about conjuration spells not allowed to overlap an existing creature would apply here: the spell couldn't regrow the body from an attached fragment since it would overlap the golem's space (since the starting fragment would still be part of the golem). Incidentally, this is the first time that a healing spell being conjuration has actually made some sense to me....


What if there are bones from multiple people? I remember back in the day bone golems were built from several bodies, and had four arms. In fact, wasn't Frankenstein's monster built from several sources?Honestly, I'm not sure about bone golems; but flesh golems are built from multiple human corpses (minimum six, according to the creation section in the monster's block). Of course, flesh golems are also Large.

And it looks like a single skeleton belonging to Roy, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0576.html). Perhaps Grubwiggler is a pioneer in golem science arcanistry?

In a general sense, though, you'd...have to hope that the bone fragment you touched belonged to the right person. Or determine it somehow, but I'm not sure offhand how you could do that. Or, there's true resurrection's clause allowing you to unambiguously identify the deceased....