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View Full Version : Found a group that plays D&D, but they play 4ed.



Zer Kaizer
2008-12-12, 07:21 PM
Any specific questions I should be asking them, as I don't know squat about 4ed.

Flickerdart
2008-12-12, 07:24 PM
Any specific questions I should be asking them, as I don't know squat about 4ed.
Well, seeing as how it's a whole new system, there are plenty of new things to learn...LA and spellcasting got changed rather drastically, the first being eliminated and the second split between Rituals and Spells, which now work differently. Also, everyone has Powers that are like ToB Manoeuvres but not really. Take a look at the PhB, you'll see what I mean...ask them about that, probably.

Tacoma
2008-12-12, 07:27 PM
Have you played another version of D&D before? Have you played other tabletop games before?

Assuming you're just unfamiliar with 4E, ask them these questions to decide what kind of character you want to play:

1: What characters do you need in the group?
2: What is the most fun to play if I liked playing X in the other game?
3: What are the characters that are just no fun to play in 4E?

Assuming they don't answer Healer, Healer, and Anything But Healer, you should use their advice to pick something that looks cool. You probably won't be dramatically disappointed in what you end up with unless it's the party Healer. Because being the Healer is kind of boring.

Zer Kaizer
2008-12-12, 07:31 PM
Have you played another version of D&D before? Have you played other tabletop games before?

Assuming you're just unfamiliar with 4E, ask them these questions to decide what kind of character you want to play:

1: What characters do you need in the group?
2: What is the most fun to play if I liked playing X in the other game?
3: What are the characters that are just no fun to play in 4E?

Assuming they don't answer Healer, Healer, and Anything But Healer, you should use their advice to pick something that looks cool. You probably won't be dramatically disappointed in what you end up with unless it's the party Healer. Because being the Healer is kind of boring.

I never played D&D before. I wanted to try 3.5 but these guys play 4ed. The only thing close to D&D I played was Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2.

They invited me to play and they said they was gonna teach me, and I'm wondering what questions I should ask.

Stupendous_Man
2008-12-12, 07:35 PM
Any specific questions I should be asking them, as I don't know squat about 4ed.

{Scrubbed}

Tacoma
2008-12-12, 07:41 PM
Stupendous Man prefers playing Tetris on his Game Boy in his own basement, thank you.

So OP, you should ask what they see is different in broad strokes. There are a lot of concepts about 4E that are very weird. It's less like 0/1/1.5(UA, OA, WSG)/2/2.5 (PO)/3/3.5 and a lot more like World of Warcraft or Monopoly.

So don't get discouraged if you're trying to do something and they just say "you can't do that in the rules" because the rules aren't trying to simulate a lifelike fantasy, they're trying to be a game that you play. You push the button, you get the banana. But you can't try to make someone slip on the peel.

Zer Kaizer
2008-12-12, 07:50 PM
Stupendous Man prefers playing Tetris on his Game Boy in his own basement, thank you.

So OP, you should ask what they see is different in broad strokes. There are a lot of concepts about 4E that are very weird. It's less like 0/1/1.5(UA, OA, WSG)/2/2.5 (PO)/3/3.5 and a lot more like World of Warcraft or Monopoly.

So don't get discouraged if you're trying to do something and they just say "you can't do that in the rules" because the rules aren't trying to simulate a lifelike fantasy, they're trying to be a game that you play. You push the button, you get the banana. But you can't try to make someone slip on the peel.

I was getting into D&D for the roleplay and the lifelike fantasy. I'll just watch them play a game before I buy any books for 4.0.

ericgrau
2008-12-12, 08:08 PM
4e is very different from 1e-3e, almost an entirely different system except for some minor similarities. Basically just be prepared to learn the whole system. If you saw previous editions and liked them b/c of the fantasy, or didn't see previous editions and just wanted a fantasy game, you should like 4e (or any rpg) just fine. If you like the specific brand/style of rpg that d&d is, you might be disappointed. If you found some things about previous editions annoying or overly tedious, you may be pleasently surprised.

Keld Denar
2008-12-12, 08:19 PM
I was getting into D&D for the roleplay and the lifelike fantasy. I'll just watch them play a game before I buy any books for 4.0.

No no, don't buy any books yet, but DO play. You don't need to roll up a character before you show up. 4e has relatively simple character creation and play rules. Hell, before the PHB actually came out, I was playing it on the rules that came out for the DDXP Convention in Wash DC which fit on 2 sheets of paper, front and back. So, you don't really have to worry much about mechanics, because you can learn them in short order.

So, think up a concept, or a couple concepts. Sounds like you would really enjoy RPing, so think up a couple of maliable stories that could fit into a number of roles. Maybe write up a little paragraph for each one. Once you get that done, wait until the game. Show up with your concepts, a handful of dice (although you could easily borrow some as well, but its fun to own your own), a couple of pencils, and some scratch paper. If you are really ambitious, you could find some printable character record sheets for 4e and print a couple.

Then call or email the DM, or one of the more experienced players, and ask if you can meet with them about an hour before the game if possible. Chat with them about what roles they could use and compare that with the RP concepts you planned out. Once you figure out what to play, and how to RP that, make a character. This shouldn't take long depending on starting level, mostly rolling stats, calcing your defenses, picking a couple feats and powers and done. Once you get that done, ask some general questions like how to turns work, how does dying work, how do saves work, what actions can I do when, how do action points work, how do some of the powers you've picked out work (most are pretty self explanatory, but a couple are a little tricky) and whatnot.

Then you are done, ready to play. Anything you have figured out by now, you'll learn as you go. 4e really simplified a lot of the mechanics, so you are really freed up to spend more time on character developement and RP.

Hope this helps. Remember, if you don't understand something in the game, either ask right away if its small, or write it down and ask them or us later. Thats why you should ALWAYS bring scratch paper to the game! You can never take too many notes.

KKL
2008-12-12, 08:35 PM
It's less like 0/1/1.5(UA, OA, WSG)/2/2.5 (PO)/3/3.5 and a lot more like World of Warcraft or Monopoly.

I disagree completely. 4e is in no way like World of Warcraft. Or Monopoly.

valadil
2008-12-12, 08:56 PM
Ask them how they treat someone learning the system. Some groups will let you suck at it so they feel better about their own builds, others will hold your hand till you grasp the rules better.

Kizara
2008-12-12, 08:57 PM
I disagree completely. 4e is in no way like World of Warcraft. Or Monopoly.

Seriously, how could it be like Monopoly? I mean, I despise 4e as much as anyone, but I can't see that. Please elaborate.

Roderick_BR
2008-12-12, 09:05 PM
Stupendous Man prefers playing Tetris on his Game Boy in his own basement, thank you.

So OP, you should ask what they see is different in broad strokes. There are a lot of concepts about 4E that are very weird. It's less like 0/1/1.5(UA, OA, WSG)/2/2.5 (PO)/3/3.5 and a lot more like World of Warcraft or Monopoly.

So don't get discouraged if you're trying to do something and they just say "you can't do that in the rules" because the rules aren't trying to simulate a lifelike fantasy, they're trying to be a game that you play. You push the button, you get the banana. But you can't try to make someone slip on the peel.
In 3.5 you can only make people slip on the peel if you are a full caster. If you are not, you need a feat just to eat the banana.

I find 4e more like an advanced AD&D, only with powers added.

Seriously, don't listen to people that say that 4E is like videogames. Go and watch your friends play, then ask a quick explaination. I'm sure they'll be glad to help you build a character and how to use it.

KKL
2008-12-12, 09:18 PM
Seriously, how could it be like Monopoly?

Beats the hell outta me.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-12, 09:25 PM
Assuming they don't answer Healer, Healer, and Anything But Healer, you should use their advice to pick something that looks cool. You probably won't be dramatically disappointed in what you end up with unless it's the party Healer. Because being the Healer is kind of boring.

As a dedicated Healer, I resent that!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go slit my wrists for fun. Whee!

Mando Knight
2008-12-12, 09:46 PM
I was getting into D&D for the roleplay and the lifelike fantasy. I'll just watch them play a game before I buy any books for 4.0.

"Lifelike" isn't exactly the word I'd choose for a game where runty thick-bearded Scots (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame) and their dragon-man allies fight undead (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUndead), demons (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDemonsAreDifferent), and Things Which Man Was Not Meant to Know... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheseAreThingsManWasNotMeantToKnow)

...but hey, maybe you're MIB (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MIB) and an insider to The Conspiracy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GovernmentConspiracy)...

The 4E rules (read: rules. Not necessarily all of the gameplay. How much other stuff (not covered explicitly in said rules) you do depends on the DM.) are based around one thing: Combat. (i.e. it's a game in which you and a few friends make Badass (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Badass) characters to take on entire armies...) The amount and type of Roleplaying you'll be able to do in the game is entirely up to the group. You could play this as nothing but a series of battles (like Fire Emblem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/FireEmblem) if you skip the dialogue), or you could play it with social encounters and such. (like Fire Emblem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FireEmblem) with the dialogue, but you get to make the dialogue up yourself rather than watch it like it was just a movie, or choose between Choice A Which Is Clearly Baby-Eating-Evil, Choice B Which Is Clearly Mother-Theresa-Good, and Choice C Which Clearly Shows You That Apathy Is Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ApathyKilledTheCat).) If you dislike Fire Emblem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FetishFuel/FireEmblem) (the link is different every time! I promise!)... then a 4E group probably isn't what you want.

In other news: Troping. It will ruin your life (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife).

Thane of Fife
2008-12-12, 09:59 PM
"Lifelike" isn't exactly the word I'd choose for a game where runty thick-bearded Scots and their dragon-man allies fight undead, demons, and Things Which Man Was Not Meant to Know...

...but hey, maybe you're MIB and an insider to The Conspiracy...

The 4E rules (read: rules. Not necessarily all of the gameplay. How much other stuff (not covered explicitly in said rules) you do depends on the DM.) are based around one thing: Combat. (i.e. it's a game in which you and a few friends make Badass characters to take on entire armies...) The amount and type of Roleplaying you'll be able to do in the game is entirely up to the group. You could play this as nothing but a series of battles (like Fire Emblem if you skip the dialogue), or you could play it with social encounters and such. (like Fire Emblem with the dialogue, but you get to make the dialogue up yourself rather than watch it like it was just a movie, or choose between Choice A Which Is Clearly Baby-Eating-Evil, Choice B Which Is Clearly Mother-Theresa-Good, and Choice C Which Clearly Shows You That Apathy Is Death.) If you dislike Fire Emblem (the link is different every time! I promise!)... then a 4E group probably isn't what you want.

In other news: Troping. It will ruin your life.

You, sir, are a terrible person (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DevilInPlainSight).

Mando Knight
2008-12-12, 10:07 PM
You, sir, are a terrible person (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DevilInPlainSight).

There is nothing suspicious about me.

...Also, as a second-rate wargamer, I happen to like the slant of the new edition as well...

Also! I just realized the reason why 4E's rules are based on combat! Remember when you had your action figures or LEGO guys and were playing with your friends/siblings, and got into the "My guy is better! He can kick your guy's rear to kingdom come!" "Nuh uh!" "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" type fights? This is why they invented D&D. So you can prove to your friend that your guy is better than the his guy... unless he starts complaining "That still only counts as one (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BodyCountCompetition)!"

Kalir
2008-12-12, 10:24 PM
On the vein of healers...

Warlords are supposed to play like healers, I think, but you'd never guess it from their flavor. If they do say that you have to play a healer, try a warlord. They may have gotten one command on to you, but they'll be your little puppets to dance as you will from then on out.

Behold_the_Void
2008-12-12, 10:41 PM
So don't get discouraged if you're trying to do something and they just say "you can't do that in the rules" because the rules aren't trying to simulate a lifelike fantasy, they're trying to be a game that you play. You push the button, you get the banana. But you can't try to make someone slip on the peel.

This really shouldn't be the case. 4e is at least as well-equipped to handle such scenarios as any other D&D system. It just depends on if your DM is good enough to make use of it. The DMG's guidelines for such a thing does make it a hell of a lot easier though.

RPGuru1331
2008-12-12, 11:17 PM
{Scrubbed}

Treating people in real life as they are often treated on the internet usu al ly means that at best, they don't play with you, and at worst, they hit you.

herrhauptmann
2008-12-13, 12:00 AM
I disagree completely. 4e is in no way like World of Warcraft. Or Monopoly.

HEAR!! HEAR!!
In no way do you ever get the NPC's in WoW or the Bank in Monopoly to have a heart attack because the very existence of your character invalidates half the tactics the monster could use, and makes the other half just suck. Even if you prefer 3/3.5, 4E will grow on you I think, like a fungus.

My reasoning:
Warlord has great bonuses he gives to his allies.
Warlord gives allies a bonus to initiative, just for being there.
Allies spend an action point (geta free action), they get bonus to damage and attack, just because he's there.
Ally needs to go somewhere without provoking a free attack, Warlord can get them there (wolfpack tactics)
Only 1 or 2 characters really have the ability to hit the BBEG for noticeable damage, you can give one of them a free hit per turn, with a damage bonus equal to your INT bonus. (commanding strike)
And you can provide that extra bit of healing to keep the tank alive while the main healer is rescuing the rogue.
Ask the party, 'who wants a free attack, or a free 5ft step?' and let them help you be effective in your first game.

That being said, there's some disadvantages.
Living Forgotten Realms games have 'skill challenges.' You sit around and roll the dice for 10 minutes completing skill checks. Every failure reduces some of your healing ability.
The currently published modules are pretty schizophrenic, but not as insanely arbitrary as they were in 3.5 Living Greyhawk. "No, we're on an infiltration mission, I'm not going to shut the 15ftx10ft iron doors that are 3 inches thick. I want to have some warning if guards are coming by."
DM: "As you open the door with a clang to leave, you see 4 guards in plate armor and shields, with 4 more in studded leather with crossbows pointed at your face. They won the surprise round and have readied actions. The archers sneak attack and the knights all go to disarm you."
He showed me the adventure afterwards. He wasn't being a jerk, that's exactly what the description had happen.