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Boci
2008-12-13, 11:32 AM
Note: This is using 3.5 material

Black Sun Corps – The Sun can shines as much as it likes, there will still be shadows.

The Black Sun Corps is the so-called “Special Task Force” of the Kingdom of Zatrictor. Its ranks swell with evil dread necromancers, archivists and blackguard, although fighters, rogues, clerics and regular wizards with a vile twist are also welcome. They operate in divisions, with levels ranging from 1-12. Each devision has a specific task in which they specialize.

Basic Info:
Membership count: 350
Of which non-combat perosnel: 125
Of which combat personel: 225
Funds: Unknown

Time required to train indevidual unit:
(N^2+4)-N*2=S, when N is the level of the soldier to be trained and S is the number of weeks it takes.
Cost to train unit: 1,000gp per week

Angel Slaying Squad
Member count: 4
Average party level: 5
Classification: Living
Typical Member role:
1: Front line warrior
2: Damage Dealer
3: Archer
4: Caster
Specialized Task: Kill lesser outsiders

Typical build:
1: Front line warrior:

(Any race) Knight: 3 / Fighter: 2
Hit point: 12+2d12+2d10+10 (46)
Init: +1
Speed: 20ft
AC: 18, Touch: 12, Flatfooted: 17
States: Str: 18 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 12
Attack: +1 great sword +10 (+12 against chaotic outsiders), 2d6+7
Feats: 1st: Disciple of Darkness
Knight 2nd: Mounted combat
3rd: Stand Still
Fight 1st: Hellbound Knight
Fight 2nd: Power attack

Note: If human, add combat reflexes as a bonus feat.

Saves: Fort: +5, Ref: +5, Will: +2 (+1 knights challange)
Notable abilities: Knights challenge, Bulwark of defense

Items: +1 great sword, +1 chain mail, +2 belt of strength, ring of deflection,


2: Damage Dealer:

Human Fighter: 4 / Swordsage 1
Hit point: 10+3d10+1d8+5 (36)
Init: +5
Speed: 30ft
AC: 20, Touch: 15, Flatfooted: 15
States: Str: 12 Dex: 20 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
Attack: +1 short sword (when taking -2 penalty to hit from combat expertise) +7/+7 (+2 to hit against opponent taking penalties from difficult terrain), 2d6+2/2d6+1 (+1d6 against lawful outsiders),
Feats: Human: Thrall to Demon
1st: Two-weapon fighting
Fight 1st: Finesse Weapon
Fighter 2nd: Deadly defense
3rd: Combat expertise
Fighter 4th: Demonspawn Knight
Swordsage 1st: Weapon focus (short sword)

Saves: Fort: +5, Ref: +8, Will: +3
Notable abilities: Maneuvers

Items: 2 +1 swordsword, +1 chain shirt, +2 gloves of dexterity,

Stance:
1st: Step of the Wind

Maneuvers Readied:
Cloak of Deception
Drain Vitality
Wolf Fang Strike
Clinging Shadow Strike

Additional Maneuvers Known:
Counter Charge
Moment of perfect mind

3: Archer
(Any race) Scout: 1 / Ranger: 2 / Fighter: 2
Hit point: 8+4d10+10 (35)
Init: +5
Speed: 30ft
AC: 20, Touch: 15, Flatfooted: 15
States: Str: 10 Dex: 20 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 10
Attack: +1 longbow +9, 1d8+1 (+2 versus good outsider, +1d6 sniper shot),
or +1 longbow +7/+7, 1d8+1 (+2 versus good outsider)
Feats: 1st: Scion of sorrow
Ranger 1st: Track
3rd: Pointblank shot
Ranger 2nd: Rapid shot
Fight 1st: Tormented Knight
Fight 2nd: Precise shot

Note: If human, add pointblank shot as a bonus feat and take improved favored enemy at level 3

Saves: Fort: +7, Ref: +10, Will: +1
Notable abilities: sniper shot, favored enemy (good outsiders),

Items: +1 longbow, +1 chain shirt, +2 gloves of dexterity, 20 mk arrows, 5 +1 shock arrows,
4: Caster

Human / Archivist 5
Hit point: 6+4d6+5 (25)
Init: +1
Speed: 30ft
AC: 17, Touch: 11, Flatfooted: 16
States: Str: 8 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 20 Wis: 16 Cha: 10

Attack: dagger +1, 1d4-1
Feats: 1st: Arcane mastery
Human: Shadow Weave
Archivist 1st: Scribe scroll
3rd: Spell casting prodigy

Saves: Fort: +5, Ref: +2, Will: +9 (+11 against enchantments)
Notable abilities: Dark knowledge 4/day (tactics, puissance), lore mastery (the plains),
Knowledge (the plain) +15

Spells
0 level: 4/day, 2 x cure light wounds, 2 x read magic

1st level: 5/day, 2 x woodwisp arrow, bless, shield of faith, obscuring mist

2nd level: 4/day, brilliant energy arrow, 3 x cure moderate wound

3rd level: 3/day, 2 x arrowsplit, bestow curse

Items: +1 chain mail, +2 ring of wisdom, +2 headband of intellect, dagger,

Tactics:

Round 1: Caster enchants archer’s arrow with “arrowsplit”, then casts “bestow curse” on outsider, attempting to lower its constitution or charisma by 6. Finally, they use dark knowledge (tactics), taking a 10 to grant all allies a +2 on attack rolls against outsiders for 1 minute.

Archer uses sniper shot, fire an arrow dealing 1d8+1+1d6 (+2 if outsider is good), then 1d4 others that deal 1d8+1 (+2 if outsider is good) and forcing outsider to make several fort saves or loose charisma.

Both combat able members move into position flanking against the outsider. Warrior uses knights challange to gain +1 on attack, damage and will saves against the outsider, and uses standstill to prevent it escaping if it move on its round. Damage dealer turns invisible and uses drain vitality to lower constitution of outsider.

Round 2: Caster enchants another arrow with “arrowsplit”, then cure moderate wound on whoever needs it.

Archer and warrior continue attacking as they did in the previous round, damage dealer full attacks.

Round 3 and beyond: Caster uses what ever spells situation demands.

Archer uses rapid shot to fire 2 arrows.

Both combat members continue to attack outsider until it dies from hitpoint or becomes comatic from charisma loss, in which case the damahe dealer coup de graces it.

Frost Brothers Unit
Member count: 2
Average party level: 8
Classification: Dead
Typical Member role:
1: Undead commander
2: Blaster
Specialized Task: Creating/supporting undead, generally with the purpose of neutralizing military threats.

Typical build:
1: Undead commander:

(Any race) Necropolitan Dread Necromancer: 8
Hit point: 12+7d12 (57)
Init: +2
Speed: 30ft
AC: 18, Touch: 12, Flatfooted: 16
States: Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con:- Int: 12 Wis: 10 Cha: 24
Attack: +1 long bow +7 1d8 20/x3
Feats: 1st: Corpsecrafter
3rd: Destructive retribution
6th: Bolster resistance


Note: If human, add Deadly chill as a bonus feat.

Saves: Fort: +2, Ref: +4, Will: +6 (Mental bastilion +2)
Notable abilities: Charnel touch 3, DR: 4, negative energy burst 2/day, scabrous touch: blinding sickness, Can control 88 hit die of undead

Items: +1 long bow, +1 chain mail, Cloak of charisma +4, ring of lesser desecration, braces of armour +1, hat of disguise, 500 gp worth of onyx gems


Spells: DC= 17+spell level
Advanced learning 4: Back biter
Advanced learning 8: Wrack

Note: Undead created by dread necromancer have:
+4 hit points per hit die, +4 strength and dexterity
+4 turn resistance, explode upon destruction (Ref DC: 15)

Typically:
5 Advanced megaraptor skeletons (Total hitdie: 60)
1 seven headed hydra zombie (Total hitdie: 14)
7 troglodytes skeletons (Total hitdie: 14)
Note: This assumes only core undead are allowed. If not, add in some bone rat swarms.

1: Blaster:

(Any race) Necropolitan Wizard (evoker): 8
Hit point: 12+7d12 (57)
Init: +3
Speed: 30ft
AC: 19, Touch: 14, Flatfooted: 16
States: Str: 10 Dex: 16 Con:- Int: 24 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
Attack: +1 dagger +7 1d4 19-20/x2
Feats: 1st: Empower spell
Wizard 1st: Scribe Scroll
3rd: Energy substitution (cold)
Wizard 5th: Easy metagmagic (empower spell)
6th: Lord of Uttercold


Note: If human, add spell focus (evocation) as a bonus feat.

Saves: Fort: +2, Ref: +4, Will: +6
Notable abilities:

Items: +1 dagger, +1 mithril chain mail, Headband of intelligence +4, ring of deflection +1, hat of disguise

Typical spells: Note: DC = 19 + spell level

4th: 3 x empowered fireball, dimensive door
3rd: 2 x fireball, fly, empowered scorching hands
2nd: 2 x Scorching ray, 2 x shatter, fire burst
1st: 6 x Burning hands,

Tactics:
Unlike the Angel Slaying Squad, this unit is far harder to train and is therefore deployed on far longer lasting missions. Using their hat of disguise the dread necromancer bluffs his way into society, under the cover story of wishing to research certain arcane secrets. The Evoker may even go on a mission for the locals. The undead are then smuggled in. The troglodyte skeletons can easily be replaced, but anything else and they will need to arrange for supplies from main base. In combat they generally acts as follows:

1st round: Dread necromancer commands undead to attack and activates his ring desecration. Evoker starts of with fireball, saving the empowered ones for latter when the undead need healing (substituted to cold as will all damaging spells). Troglodytes skeletons are meant to die and activate destructive retribution. Hydra zombie will use a standard action to attack once with each of its heads, skeletons will full attack.

2nd: Dread necromancer either summons a shadow, 2 troll skeletons or cast a debuff spell such as enervation or wrack. Evoker cast a direct damage spell of a degree reflecting the amount of damage the undead has taken.

When locals latch onto their tactic and start using soldiers protected from cold and /or effective against undead, they retreat to be redeployed somewhere else. They will often have extra personel amogst them to prevent them from being detected based purely on numbers.

Black Wasp Strike Force
Member count: 4
Average party level: 3
Classification: Dead
Typical Member role:
1: Damage Dealer
2: Combat able caster/healer
3: Sniper
4: Counter Caster
Specialized Task: Hit and run guerillas

Typical build:
1: Damage dealer:

Necropolitant Human / Duskblade: 3
Hit point: 12+2d12 (25)
Init: +2
Speed: 30ft
AC: 18, Touch: 13, Flatfooted: 16
States: Str: 18 Dex: 14 Con: - Int: 16 Wis: 10 Cha: 8
Attack: Reach 20 feet +1 spiked chain +8 2d4+7 (+3d6 when channeling shocking grasp)
Feats: Human: Exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain)
1st: Willing deformity
Dusk 2nd: Combat casting
3rd: Deformity (tall)

Saves: Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +3
Notable abilities: Arcane channeling,

Typical spells known:
Note: DC: 13 + spell level
1st: (5/day) ray of exhaustion, shocking grasp
0: (6/day + arcane attunement) touch of fatigue, ray of frost

Items: +1 spiked chain, +1 chain mail, +2 gloves of dexterity, ring of deflection +1,

1: Sniper:

Necropolitant Krinth / Rogue 1 / Fighter 1 / Scout (sniper variant) 1
Hit point: 12+2d12 (25)
Init: +5
Speed: 30ft
AC: 18, Touch: 14, Flatfooted: 14
States: Str: 10 Dex: 20 Con: - Int: 16 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
Attack: +1 light crossbow +9, full round action, 1d8+3+1d6 (+1d6 sneak attack if enemy is within 60ft)
Feats: 1st: Rapid reloads
Fight 1st: Weapon focus (light crossbow)
3rd: Crossbow sniper

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +8, Will: +1
Notable abilities: Sniper shot, +1d6 sneak attack, Darkvision 60ft

Items: +1 chain mail, +2 gloves of dexterity, rapier, 10 festering bombs (mage carries half of these), +1 light crossbow, 100 bolts,

1: Counter caster:

Necropolitant (Any race) / Wizard 3
Hit point: 12+2d12 (25)
Init: +3
Speed: 30ft
AC: 17, Touch: 13, Flatfooted: 14
States: Str: 10 Dex: 16 Con: - Int: 20 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
Attack: sling +3, 1d4
Feats: 1st: Precocious apprentice
3rd: Improved counter spelling

Note: If human, add skill focus (spell craft) as a bonus feat

Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +4, Will: +3
Notable abilities: familiar

Spells:
0 level: 4/day
1st level: 4/day
2nd level: 4/day

Items: +1 mithril chain mail, headband of intelligence +2, 5 scrolls of rope trick, 5 scrolls of obscuring mist, sling, 2 sending scroll

Tactics:

A Black Wasp Strike force is sent deal with a military stronghold of a high number of low level mundane troops, such as a regular army division.

Reconnaissance: Under cover of night, the sniper investigates the base and choosing a good side to attack from and learn the identity of the ranking individuals. On the next night, the division attacks.

Pre-combat: Rogue positions himself within 60ft of where the fight will take place. His darkvision and crossbow sniper feat allow him to still deal sneak attack damage. The mage waits around 20ft behind him, whilst the duskblade and dread necromancer run forwards to confront the enemy.

The duskblade uses his reach to keep out of direct melee, channeling shocking grasp and targeting high ranking members.

The dread necromancer takes one round to charge up with chill touch then touches 3 regular soldiers in conjunction with charnel touch, aiming to kill them or at least force them to rest to regain their strength.

The wizard moves within to be within 20ft of the fight, making sure he is not too close to the rogue. He readies an action to counter spell, then uses his sling. Once enough soldiers arrive at the scene he throws one of the rogue’s festering bombs into the crowd, knowing it will not affect his allies.

The rogue takes a full round action to use sniping shot on a target, relying on the night to keep him concealed.

When one of the melee’s is down 10 or less hp, the mage casts obscuring mist and under that cover the 4 of them retreat. About 200ft away the mage casts rope trick and they all hide. The dread necromancer restores everyone to full health. Depending on how many spell slots the wizard and dread necromancer expended they may immediate repeat the attack in the same night, or they may wait until the next night. If they wait, the rogue will most likely keep the soldiers on their feet by taking the occasional shot or throwing a festering bomb into a barricade.
They continue with theses tactics until either they capture the settlement or they run out of rope trick scrolls and festering bombs, in which case the mage uses his sending scroll to contact their superiors and either retreat or arrange for more supplies to be delivered.

Black Widow Unit
Member count: 2
Average party level: 5
Classification: Living
Typical Member role: 2 Gish Strikers
Specialized Task: Quick speed assassinations

Typical build:
1: Damage dealer (2):

Human / Warblade 1 / Battle Sorceror 4
Hit point: 12+3d8+10 (35)
Init: +1
Speed: 30ft
Moderate depravity

AC: 15, Touch: 11, Flatfooted: 14 (-2 if punishing stance is used)

States: Str: 14 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 14

Attack: +1 dragonsplit +5 1d6+3 20 x4 / MW dragonsplit +5 1d6+2 20 x4

Feats: 1st: Exotic weapon proficiency (dragonsplit)
Human: Two-weapon fighting
3rd: Surge of Maleviolence
Bonus from moderate taint: Debilitating Strike (2 time per day)

Saves: Fort: +5, Ref: +2, Will: +4
Notable abilities: Spells, Maneuvers

Typical spells known:
Note: DC: 12 + spell level
2nd: (2/day) wraithstrike
1st: (5/day) burning hands, expeditious retreat
0: (5/day)

Manouver:
Wolf Fang Strike
Sudden Leap
Moment of perfect thought

Stance: Punishing Stance

Items: chain shirt, 2 +1 dragonsplits, +2 amulet of health,

Tactics: Single hit assassins these two usually travel alone meeting up at their destination, bluffing their way past authority. They then position themselves to simultaneously attack their target, preferably in public. If the target is likely to accept, they may challenge him to a duel against them, possibly with a second companion. They make sure they are within 30ft of their target when combat begins.

Combat: The one with the higher initiative delays so they can both act, moving to flanking the target. Each casts wraith strike and uses wolf fang strike to attack with each weapon, using debilatating strike to drain wisdom. If all 4 attacks hit the target suffers 16 wisdom damage. If he falls into a coma from wisdom loss they each coup de grace them, running as soon as their target it dead, using sudden leap or swift expeditious retreat to help them, and possibly burning hands if they need to cut holes through a crowd. They also run if their target is not dropped from wisdom draining.

Boci
2008-12-14, 12:14 PM
Bump Bump Bump

horseboy
2008-12-14, 01:39 PM
Why are they hunting Angles?

Boci
2008-12-14, 01:48 PM
Why are they hunting Angles?

Because their evil. That what evil people do. Duh. (The next division is going to be the Puppy Kicking Squad)

On a more serious note, one nation Zatrictor is at war which has lesser outsiders voluntarily bound to almost every single temple. Also, I like the cinematic idea of 20 Angel Slaying Squads (hmmm, abbreviates to ASS, best not to use that...) facing a horde of chaotic good outsides.

Premier
2008-12-14, 02:06 PM
Why are they hunting Angles?

Probably because these Angles allied with the Jutes and other Saxon tribes to conquer the isle of Britain, driving the Romanized Britons to the west into Wales and establishing what many centuries later will become a world power known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.


Now, if they were hunting Angels, that I couldn't explain.

Starsinger
2008-12-14, 02:06 PM
Because their evil. That what evil people do. Duh. (The next division is going to be the Puppy Kicking Squad)

On a more serious note, one nation Zatrictor is at war which has lesser outsiders voluntarily bound to almost every single temple. Also, I like the cinematic idea of 20 Angle Slaying Squads (hmmm, abbreviates to ASS, best not to use that...) facing a horde of chaotic good outsides.

You missed the joke dear. Angles are geometric shapes such as <. You mean Angels if you want the celestial being.

Boci
2008-12-15, 11:05 AM
You missed the joke dear. Angles are geometric shapes such as <. You mean Angels if you want the celestial being.

Oh, sorry dear. I made the mistake of assuming the post was at least semi related to my request. How stupid of me.

Seriously, if all people are going to do is point out a typo, why bother posting? If you comment and then point out a typo that’s fine, but otherwise, please don't waste other people's time.

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2008-12-15, 12:56 PM
Oh, sorry dear. I made the mistake of assuming the post was at least semi related to my request. How stupid of me.

Seriously, if all people are going to do is point out a typo, why bother posting? If you comment and then point out a typo that’s fine, but otherwise, please don't waste other people's time.

I'm pretty sure there was no offense intended, mate (incidentally, I did actually think you were talking about the germanic Angles that invaded Britain and established England when I first read your post)

I'm not going to PEACH in order to "waste other people's time".

Boci
2008-12-15, 01:17 PM
I'm pretty sure there was no offense intended, mate".

I'm sure they weren't trying to offend me. I'm just annoyed they take the time to point out my spelling mistake but can't be bothered to say anything about the actual material.


(incidentally, I did actually think you were talking about the germanic Angles that invaded Britain and established England when I first read your post)

So you read the big, large text of the title and then didn't bother reading anything else? If you did read the rest of the information on the Angel Slaying Squad, why didn't "Caster enchants archer’s arrow with “arrowsplit”, then casts “bestow curse” on outsider" tip you off? Heck, or even their specialized task.


I'm not going to PEACH in order to "waste other people's time".

That barely makes sense. By not commenting on any of the material here you are wasting my time. If you do PEACH, then you’re not wasting my time and I will be happy read what ever you have to write.

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2008-12-15, 06:03 PM
I'm sure they weren't trying to offend me. I'm just annoyed they take the time to point out my spelling mistake but can't be bothered to say anything about the actual material.

K. Your post was still funny, though.


So you read the big, large text of the title and then didn't bother reading anything else? If you did read the rest of the information on the Angel Slaying Squad, why didn't "Caster enchants archer’s arrow with “arrowsplit”, then casts “bestow curse” on outsider" tip you off? Heck, or even their specialized task.

That should have said "when I first started reading your post", because that's what I meant. Although I would advise you to use clearer formatting, as your post was bordering on being a wall of text.


That barely makes sense. By not commenting on any of the material here you are wasting my time. If you do PEACH, then you’re not wasting my time and I will be happy read what ever you have to write.

It makes perfect sense. I didn't PEACH in order to be annoying. :smallwink:

Greg
2008-12-15, 06:20 PM
What does PEACH mean?

And...

“Bene, nam et angelicam habent faciem, et tales angelorum in caelis decet esse coheredes”

Narmoth
2008-12-15, 06:32 PM
For the angel killer squad you could use a blackguard turned from a lvl 6 paladin, giving him 2d6 sneak attack dmg on flanking. Combined with smite good 3 times a day, power attack and the spell Blade of Blood (deals 3d6 dmg on hit for 5 hp in self dmg, swift attack) you get an enormous amount of damage on any good creature.
Combine with Power attack and greatsword for even more damage if the outsider has low ac

Subotei
2008-12-15, 07:44 PM
A few points that occur to me - not read it all:

How will PC encounter the Black Sun - as adversaries or as allies or members?

This will be an incredibly expensive organisation to set up/run.

Squads are very specific - I would consider some more flexible squads in makeup and/or tactics for different situations and the unexpected - set tactics become easy to defeat after a while.

Hit and run squads should have a decent means of escape - rope trick is vulnerable.

Mounted combat for knight could be better (is it a pre-requisite for something else? - if so ignore me)

Lots of sneaking around - consider use of invisibility - scrolls or potions would certainly aid this for the lower level characters.

Seatbelt
2008-12-15, 09:16 PM
Knights have mounted combat thrust upon them, because Knights ride horses. :P Knights are tricky sometimes because no matter what build you use you end up neglecting something they do.

Artanis
2008-12-15, 09:41 PM
What does PEACH mean?

And...

“Bene, nam et angelicam habent faciem, et tales angelorum in caelis decet esse coheredes”
Something along the lines of "Please (something) and Critique Honestly". I can't remember what the 'E' stands for, but you should still get the gist.

...unless I'm misremembering even more than just the 'E', which is a distinct possibility :smallwink:

Alteran
2008-12-15, 09:54 PM
As far as I know, it means Please Edit And Critique Honestly.

Mewtarthio
2008-12-15, 10:03 PM
I'm pretty sure the 'E' stands for "Evalutate."

Boci
2008-12-16, 01:21 PM
A few points that occur to me - not read it all:

How will PC encounter the Black Sun - as adversaries or as allies or members?

Probably they will need to counter the threat posed by the divisions of the Black Sun Corps by setting up an organization of their own whilst they deal which the stronger divisions themselves.


This will be an incredibly expensive organisation to set up/run.

Zatrictor can afford it.


Squads are very specific - I would consider some more flexible squads in makeup and/or tactics for different situations and the unexpected - set tactics become easy to defeat after a while.

They're suppose to be specialized. The divisions may change but the tactics won't. If the enemy starts sending out cold resistant troops against a frost brother unit, the unit will retreat and be replaced.


Hit and run squads should have a decent means of escape - rope trick is vulnerable.

Can you think of a specific replacement available at that level?


Mounted combat for knight could be better (is it a pre-requisite for something else? - if so ignore me)

Knights get it as a bonus feat.


Lots of sneaking around - consider use of invisibility - scrolls or potions would certainly aid this for the lower level characters.

I'll consider it. Especially for the Black Wasp Strike Force.

On Blackguards as Angel Slayers:
I'm trying to minimize the level of the soldier, so blackguard is minimum 7. Plus a fallen paladin 6 doesn't even meet the preqs.

Oh and


I didn't PEACH in order to be annoying. :smallwink:

That’s nothing to be a proud about. It’s considered a negative trait. Hopefully in real life where you can't hide behind the internet you’re a nicer person.

Khatoblepas
2008-12-16, 03:20 PM
That’s nothing to be a proud about. It’s considered a negative trait. Hopefully in real life where you can't hide behind the internet you’re a nicer person.
Generally, proofreading your own work is also considered good manners when presenting it for critique.

These tactics will never work. They will barely be able to beat CR5 Hound Archons, and even Lantern Archons will give them a run for their money like this. You'll need to revise your party if they're even to approach being an Angel Slaying Squad. Right now, they're just ASSes.


Assuming ONE Hound Archon.


Round 1: Caster enchants archer’s arrow with “arrowsplit”, then casts “bestow curse” on outsider, lowering its constitution or charisma by 6. Also uses dark knowledge.
Right, so. Caster uses Bestow Curse on Hound Archon.
-Hound Archon has Spell Resistance 16, so you need to roll 11 or above to affect him. Let's say 50%. Arcane Mastery can't help here, it lets you take 10. 10+5 is 1 below what you need.
-Hound Archon has a Will Save of +6. Your spell DC is 17, so he needs to roll 11 or above. which, again, is roughly 50% of the time. This one spell, that would weaken him, is pretty much a waste of an action, as it works 1/4 of the time!


I have no idea what Arrowsplit is. What book is it from? What does it do? I'm assuming it's a swift action, otherwise you won't be able to cast it AND Bestow Curse.


Archers uses sniper shot, fire and arrow dealing 1d8+1d6, then 1d4 deal 1d8 (+2 if outsider is good) and forcing outsider to make several fort saves or loose charisma.

1d4 deal 1d8? What does that even mean? But anyway, the Hound Archon has dr 10/evil, so you're likely to take out just a couple of his hit points. Nothing much happens, Hound Archon probably has Aid on, and he has roughly 40hp.


Both combat able members move into position flanking the outsider. Warrior uses standstill to prevent it escaping.
Both have to make DC16 Will Saves or take -2 to attack, saves, and AC. Both have a 25% chance of making it, roughly. Not a good start. Neither will be able to hit the Archon. Stand Still only works on an AoO. The Archon hasn't yet provoked.

Now it's the Archon's turn. He takes a 5ft step to get out of the flank and behind the rogue compared to the archer. He full attacks the rogue, who can't attack him because of the DR.


Round 2: Caster enchants another arrow with “arrowsplit”, then cure moderate wound on whoever needs it.
Oh, the rogue? Okay. No battlefield control?


Archer and both combat members continue attacking as they did in the previous round.
Impeding the Hound Archon minimally. If things look grim, or if the Hound Archon's rolls last round didn't decimate the rogue, it withdraws as a full round action. It will probably do this anyway if the Warrior has flanked it again. It needs better odds.


Round 3 and beyond: Caster uses what ever spells situation demands.
Obscuring Mist can't help you now.


Archer uses rapid shot to fire 2 arrows.
Which don't do much. DR, remember?


Both combat members continue to attack outsider until it dies from hitpoint or becomes comatic from charisma loss, in which case they coup de grace it.
If they can catch up with him. The Hound Archon teleports away. He sends a message to his Hound Archon buddies. They come back later, and destroy these stupid evil people who would threaten the forces of Good. They're evil, after all.

TPK. End. They couldn't even handle a single Hound Archon without it getting away. Did you look up the abilities of Good Outsiders before statting these? They don't seem very able at all. And they seem to have some obscure feats you haven't described. Could you do that? Try restatting them so they're able to defeat angels, specialised to defeat them, in fact!

Right now, they are at best the Quirky Miniboss Squad.

Boci
2008-12-17, 10:33 AM
Generally, proofreading your own work is also considered good manners when presenting it for critique.

I do try. Unfortunately I have a learning difficulty which results in me frequently reading what I think is there and not what is actually there. I do apologize for the errors that slip past me.


These tactics will never work. They will barely be able to beat CR5 Hound Archons, and even Lantern Archons will give them a run for their money like this. You'll need to revise your party if they're even to approach being an Angel Slaying Squad. Right now, they're just ASSes.


Assuming ONE Hound Archon.

Again, I'm sorry, I assumed more people would have access to champions of ruin.


Right, so. Caster uses Bestow Curse on Hound Archon.
-Hound Archon has Spell Resistance 16, so you need to roll 11 or above to affect him. Let's say 50%. Arcane Mastery can't help here, it lets you take 10. 10+5 is 1 below what you need.
-Hound Archon has a Will Save of +6. Your spell DC is 17, so he needs to roll 11 or above. which, again, is roughly 50% of the time. This one spell, that would weaken him, is pretty much a waste of an action, as it works 1/4 of the time!

Dam. I forgot about SR. I may remake the archivist, but the bestow curse was never a major part their tactics, just a catalyst. Might change the build to give the archivist spell penetration and arcane mastery.


I have no idea what Arrowsplit is. What book is it from? What does it do? I'm assuming it's a swift action, otherwise you won't be able to cast it AND Bestow Curse.

It’s a swift action. Turns one masterwork arrow into 1d4+1 copies. Precision based damage it only applicable to one.


1d4 deal 1d8? What does that even mean?

See above


But anyway, the Hound Archon has dr 10/evil, so you're likely to take out just a couple of his hit points. Nothing much happens, Hound Archon probably has Aid on, and he has roughly 40hp.

Tormented Knight has two useful bonuses here:
1. Weapons are evil for the purpose of overcoming DR. Goodbye DR (and Hellbound Knight makes your weapon lawful and evil)
2. Each time damage is dealt, the outsider must make a fort save or loose charisma (as long as they are chaotic or lawful). The Hound Archon won't fail all those saves, but the chances are he won't succeed them all either. The Hound only has 12 char. Its going to fall into a coma real quickly. With a bit of luck even on the first round (although the chances are against it)

However, the rogue doesn't. So I may need to change its build somewhat.


Both have to make DC16 Will Saves or take -2 to attack, saves, and AC. Both have a 25% chance of making it, roughly. Not a good start. Neither will be able to hit the Archon. Stand Still only works on an AoO. The Archon hasn't yet provoked.

Standstill is there for latter incse the Archon Hound tries to move once it realises it can't take a 5ft step.


Now it's the Archon's turn. He takes a 5ft step to get out of the flank and behind the rogue compared to the archer. He full attacks the rogue, who can't attack him because of the DR.

Unless the Archon Hound has some special ability to take 5ft steps, that tactic isn't available. (Bulwark of Defense = all adjacent squares count as difficult terrain, no 5ft step on difficult terrain)


Oh, the rogue? Okay. No battlefield control?

Can recommend a better use of a 3rd EDIT: 2nd level spell slot?


Impeding the Hound Archon minimally. If things look grim, or if the Hound Archon's rolls last round didn't decimate the rogue, it withdraws as a full round action. It will probably do this anyway if the Warrior has flanked it again. It needs better odds.

Still leaving it within range of the archer, who ignores it’s DR and can cause charisma damage. Plus, if it’s being flanked, which is probably is, withdraw won't help. (Fighter will threaten it on its second square.)


Obscuring Mist can't help you now.

Does the information on their abilities change this statement?


Which don't do much. DR, remember

See above


If they can catch up with him. The Hound Archon teleports away. He sends a message to his Hound Archon buddies. They come back later, and destroy these stupid evil people who would threaten the forces of Good. They're evil, after all.

Okay, I may need to change the fighters build, to include mage slayer.
EDIT: Dam, SU abilities are hard to counter. Well, they can only teleport 50ft, so the archer can still reach them. Apart from that supernatural reflexes is the only thing I can think of to combat teleport.


TPK. End. They couldn't even handle a single Hound Archon without it getting away. Did you look up the abilities of Good Outsiders before statting these? They don't seem very able at all. And they seem to have some obscure feats you haven't described. Could you do that? Try restatting them so they're able to defeat angels, specialised to defeat them, in fact!

Right now, they are at best the Quirky Miniboss Squad.

Again, do you think this is still true?

Boci
2008-12-18, 08:40 AM
Made some changes to the Angel Slaying Squad. Thank you Khatoblepas, it was your PEACHing that made these improvements.

Completely replaced combat able "skill monkey" with a new build, a human damage dealer.

Made the archivist a human and added shadow weave as their racial feat.

Also edited and expanded on the tactics:

Fist round: Lets assume they are facing an archon hound. Due to their need of teamwork the Angel Slaying Squad will need to delay and this will probably allow the outsider to go first. The two melee characters will stop it from getting to the archer or caster, unless it teleports in which case its wasted its standard action.

Archivist casts bestow curse. It uses arcane mastery to beat any spell resistance of 16 or lower automatically (Take 10 from arcane mastery, +5 from level and +1 from shadow weave). The save DC for this spell is 20 (10 + 5 (int) + 1 (spell casting prodigy) + 1 (shadow weave) + 3 (spell level)). The archon hound's will save is 6+2 for its magical circle against evil, so it will fail this save 60% of the time. Let’s assume it succeeds on the save. Also note dark knowledge.

The two melee characters then attack. Chances are they will fail their saves against aura of menace and take -2 to attacks. The warrior still has a +13 attack modifier, so he will probably hit, dealing 2d6+7 damage. Lets call that 14. No DR, remember for any member except the archivist, who doesn’t even attack.
The Damage dealer goes invisible attacks with one sword. His attack modifier is +13 so he'll hit, dealing 2d6+2 damage as well as 2 points of constitution. That a total of 15 damage, 6 of which can't be healed.

Now the archer attacks. We'll call 1d4+1 3. Lets assume 2 arrow hit, and we have 1 arrow dealing 1d8+3+1d6 which equals 11 and one dealing 1d8+3 (7). That a total of 18.

14+15+18=47. The Archon Hound is dead, before it can even make the saves to avoid loosing charisma.

EDIT: Here the info on the shadow weave (from the Forgotten Realms I believe)
Instead of using The Weave to cast magic (like everyone else), you now use The Shadow Weave.
1. When casting a spell from school of Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy, gain a +1 bonus to DC and a +1 bonus for overcoming Spell Resistance.
2. When casting a spell from the school of Evocation or Transmutation that does not have the [darkness] subtype, your effective Caster level is one lower.
3. You cannot cast spells with the [light] subtype.
4. You can use magic items that are based on The Shadow Weave.

Boci
2008-12-21, 08:08 AM
I was thinking of adding flaws to each member, but something about that seems wrong. Probably becuase outsiders can't take flaws.