Good Paladin Prestige Class?

[BendakStarkiler]

Hey guy! I was just wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a good Paladin Prestige class. Just to help, I don't use the mount, I took the spirit ability from PHII. I mainly focus on combat, but I would like to keep my spell casting ability, if I could. There are no books outlawed. If you could tell me the class and book to find it in that would be awesome. Thanks.

[monty]

Aren't all paladin prestige classes good? I mean, unless you use the Tyranny or Slaughter variants. :smalltongue:

[kjones]

Grey Guard, from Complete Scoundrel.

/thread

[Grynning]

Well, going beyond level 5 in the Paladin class is generally inadvisable, or beyond level 3 (or 4 to use divine feats) if you're not using the mount. But it sounds like you're at least level 5 already, but that's ok. There are a few options available.

Before anyone gets too detailed, you may want to post your full build - level, stats, current feats, etc. Also, is re-training allowed?

Pious Templar from Complete Divine is pretty good, depending on your build. It has it's own spellcasting progression separate from the paladins, but it's faster. It also has a better smite progression, IIRC.

Multiclassing is never a bad plan with a paladin. You could go fighter and start building towards an uber-charger type (Power Attack, Leap attack, Shock Trooper) although the dip in barbarian for pounce is prohibited to you, since you have to stay lawful. But with your Charging Smite Variant you could at least get one big hit in. Also Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) is another way to do something like this (with Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm)) and it will also get you access to a host of powers that are all around better than Pally casting. If you spend your skill points right and burn a feat on Track, or dip a level in Ranger, you can get into Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm), which is one of the better PrC's in the game.

If ToB is allowed...start taking levels in Crusader. And re-train your feats for Martial Study/Martial Stance if possible.

[bosssmiley]

Knight of the Chalice is ok.

[Eldariel]

Ordained Champion? Works fine for Pallies too since they get Turning, and makes for great divine champions (of course, you gotta be a Paladin of Heironeous to pull it off).

[mikej]

Ruby Knight Vindicator is pretty good, a little work on the skill prereq I believe but worth the effort to spend turns to recover maneuvers. I don't really like Pious Templar PrC but I seconded Ordained Champion.

Or just play a Cleric and call yourself the Paladin also works.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warpriest. Technically, a Paladin qualifies because he gets access to Magic Weapon which is in the War Domain. So you loose 1/2 casting (big deal) in exchange for some nifty SLA's (Haste, Mass Heal, Fear Aura...). You loose almost nothing and gain quite a lot.

[Grynning]

Warpriest. Technically, a Paladin qualifies because he gets access to Magic Weapon which is in the War Domain. So you loose 1/2 casting (big deal) in exchange for some nifty SLA's (Haste, Mass Heal, Fear Aura...). You loose almost nothing and gain quite a lot.

Oooohhh, I never thought of that. Well done. The class is Complete Warrior, btw.

[Eldariel]

Complete Divine...

[Kroy]

There's the Champion of Corellon Larethian from RotW, but you need to be an elf and have mounted combat, which would be pointless is you don't have a mount.

[Grynning]

Complete Divine...

Damn, yeah that's right. I really wish I still had a copy of that.

I got mixed up because the Warshaper and War Chanter are both in Complete War...rior.

[Ponce]

Fist of Raziel is pretty good, lots of smiting abilities and persistant Magic Circle Against Evil at level 1. The capstone ability is to treat every weapon you wield as a holy weapon. Pretty handy. Also grants 9/10 spellcasting, so if you took a level of cleric, you are good to go, or you could just advance the paladin spellcasting. Problem is, its in BoED.

[Keld Denar]

Divine Crusader is a nice one. You can take the first level at 8, due to BAB requirements, but it gives you full 9th level casting by about level 16 I believe. Pick a good domain for access to fun spells. For a little extra kaese on the brot, nab a few levels of other PrCs after getting into DC to nab extra domains. Ordained Champ is an obvious choice, full BAB + War domain, but there is also Contemplative (loses BAB, but gains domains at 1 and 6) and Sovergn Speaker (Ebberon, gains LOTS of domains, low BAB) and you'll end up being a mini cleric/wizard with the right domain combos.

[BendakStarkiler]

Thanks a ton guys! Now I have some major reading to go do. :smallbiggrin:

[BobVosh]

Thanks a ton guys! Now I have some major reading to go do. :smallbiggrin:

just read grey guard. He was right with the /thread

Unless you are halfling. Halfling Outrider FTW!

[Narmoth]

Blackguard? Isn't that the logical progression from paladin?


Divine Crusader is a nice one. You can take the first level at 8, due to BAB requirements, but it gives you full 9th level casting by about level 16 I believe.

Which book is this from?

Also, I'm considering changing from blackguard to good alignment. Have 6 levels of pally. Anny suggestions?

[BRC]

Grey Guard paladins gain the following abilities which explain why they win

1) The ability to kick puppies.
2) the ability to Smite those puppies if they are chaotic.
3) Lay on Hurt.
4) The Omnismite.
5) The Ability to kick puppies into an orphanage you just lit on fire because some evil guy was in there holding the orphans hostage, and not fall.

[Keld Denar]

Which book is this from?

Complete Warrior or Complete Divine. I'm thinkin Warrior, but I'm usually wrong on my first guess, so its probably Divine.

As far as making Blackguard good? Well, some of the abilities don't translate well across the good/evil axis. You are better off with a class like Pious Templar, which gets similar fast casting, but doesn't get a lot of wierd features that make little sense on a character like this, like Command Undead and Fiendish Companion and Sneak Attack. Divine Crusader is a really nice class, especially if you can get extra domains using one of the above tricks. Ordained Champion would be the best addon to DC, in my opinion. You lose out on the spontaneously casting War spells, which doesn't matter with only 2 domains, and a couple of the other minor features. A build I would go with would be...

Paladin6/Fighter1/DC1/OC5/DC7. You get 10/10 DC casting eventually, plus all of the good stuff from OC to spend those spell slots on. Just make sure you have the Wisdom to cast all of those spells!

A good domain to take would be Travel, which gives you access to Fly, Dim Door, and Teleport, among others. Travel and War go well together for a wandering do-gooder. Otherwise Glory and War are decent and Earth and War work if you worship a Dwarven god. Of course, you'd have to strip most of the fluff from OC to make some of these suggestions work, other than Glory and War, since the Big H has both. I still think Travel/War would be the best combo though.

[Roderick_BR]

I second Warpriest. Just read the thing. It was clearly made for paladins, not clerics.
Also, for Fist of Raziel: Book of Exalted Deeds Preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20031012a). Some info to get you starter. He gets some cool smiting stuff.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Cavalier is a good mounted combat class.

Get yourself a Drakkensteed mount. (Dragon Magic book). Cheaper than a dragon, and can be enhanced with the Celestial Mount feat in BoED.

[RebelRogue]

Warpriest. Technically, a Paladin qualifies because he gets access to Magic Weapon which is in the War Domain. So you loose 1/2 casting (big deal) in exchange for some nifty SLA's (Haste, Mass Heal, Fear Aura...). You loose almost nothing and gain quite a lot.
I'm intrigued! How does the extra domain affect a paladin's casting? Do you actually get a domain spell as if you were a cleric or not?

[7th lvl scrub]

I'm going to say Gray Guard as well, because aside from the list of reasons mentioned above you don't fall for anything of the following:

- Killing a helpless foe
- Torturing a prisoner
- Killing an enemy who surrenders
- Almost anything else you can think of.


Also the ability to smite any alignment, including Lawful Good at 9th level, a full BAB, spell advancement every other level, and good Fort and Will saves.

Essentially the Gray Guard is Win/10.

[Popertop]

Wow, that Grey Guard sounds like he has some issues with his paladinhood.

[hamishspence]

You do have to have taken 10 levels in the PRC to not fall- before then, its simply that atonement doesn't cost the caster XP when cast on you- if your actions are "in the line of duty"

[Amphetryon]

Fist of Raziel, in Book of Exalted Deeds, is great for someone that actually wants to play a good Paladin (unlike Blackguard or Grey Guard) and can't use ToB (for Ruby Knight Windicator).

[hamishspence]

The Shadowbane Inquisitor class is another class that might work well for rogue-paladin hybrids. It doesn't specify any differences in the code, but the fluff implies its a bit more ruthless than a standard paladin.

[Thurbane]

Bit of an obscure source, but Knight of the Raven (EtCR module) is a pretty good Paladin PrC (Paladin 4 will get you in). Full BAB, 9/10 casting, celestial raven "familiar", smite undead, turn undead (stack with Paladin levels), access to the Sun domain, light focus and some bonus feats against undead attacks...

[Roderick_BR]

Fist of Raziel is pretty good, lots of smiting abilities and persistant Magic Circle Against Evil at level 1. The capstone ability is to treat every weapon you wield as a holy weapon. Pretty handy. Also grants 9/10 spellcasting, so if you took a level of cleric, you are good to go, or you could just advance the paladin spellcasting. Problem is, its in BoED.
Your weapon also counts as blessed, and it DO stacks with other critical enhancing abilities, that doesn't works with the normal version of the spell. Automatic critical confirmation against baddies FTW.

Warpriest is awfully good for paladins too, since their SLA's are way better than your normal spells (and pretty useless for a cleric, since a same level cleric is casting those SLAs as spells all day long already).

[theos911]

If you are in a dragon-centric campaign, you could always try platinum knight. It gets a similar divine grace ability that stacks YES DOES stack with paladin divine grace. They also get a smite evil dragons. It says it doesn't stack with paladin smiting, but I assume that is meant to keep people from saying I have 3 uses from plat knight and 2 from pally so that makes 5. I let them stack in effect, just not uses. It also gets a few other neat things.

[Optimystik]

Grey Guard, from Complete Scoundrel.

/thread


just read grey guard. He was right with the /thread

Unless you are halfling. Halfling Outrider FTW!

I must end this meme.
You throw away 5 caster levels for fluff. Gray Guard is crap.
Thank you.

[Jeff240sx]

If you started your Paladin as a Paladin base class, you've already lost.

If you started your "Paladin" as a PHB Cleric, and took the UA Paladin Prestige Class for 3 levels, then a handfull of other PrCs to taste - you're on the right track.

[Tome]

If the Paladin's minor spellcasting abilities aren't too important, consider going Hellreaver (FCII). It has some nice abilities that mesh well with Cha, easy entry and a flavour that's not out of line with a Paladin.

[Popertop]

Fist of Raziel, in Book of Exalted Deeds, is great for someone that actually wants to play a good Paladin (unlike Blackguard or Grey Guard) and can't use ToB (for Ruby Knight Windicator).

THIS. Fist of Raziel is absolutely sick,
probably the best smite abilities from any PrC.

And if you have a dragon campaign
Vassal of Bahamut.
An actual Dragonslayer class.
They get tons of crap to help them fight evil dragons.
It's really good, but for the pre-reqs you have to
have been killed and brought back by Bahamut


If you aren't averse to having more than one base class,
and don't mind going unarmed
Monk/Paladin for Sun Soul Monk (from Waterdeep)
and then get into Fist after that (not sure what that would take)
Sun Soul Monks can imbue their fists with brilliant energy.
Of course to multiclass as monk/pally you have to take a couple feats
to make it worth it, which in turn kinda make it not worth it.
Ascetic Knight:Monk and Pally levels stack for unarmed damage and smite damage
Serenity:Pally class abilities based on Wis instead of Cha

[Quirp]

for the pre-reqs you have to
have been killed and brought back by Bahamut


No. You just have to kill an evil dragon and make armor from its hide (at least in my book).

[hamishspence]

Technicially you don't need to make the armour at all- it's not in the prerequisites-

but the class grants you the ability to make the armour- as long as you have access to the scales of a slain dragon (juvenile or older).

[Person_Man]

IMO, the Paladin's Special Mount is it's strongest class feature, because it can be upgraded via Leadership or a number of strong PrC options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6985038), such as Ashworm Dragoon or Aglarondan Griffin Rider.

[Gametime]

Paladin6/Fighter1/DC1/OC5/DC7. You get 10/10 DC casting eventually, plus all of the good stuff from OC to spend those spell slots on. Just make sure you have the Wisdom to cast all of those spells!


Divine Crusader casting is all charisma-based, actually, which is a nice perk for Paladin entry. And it is in Complete Divine.

[Mystic Muse]

If you started your Paladin as a Paladin base class, you've already lost.

If you started your "Paladin" as a PHB Cleric, and took the UA Paladin Prestige Class for 3 levels, then a handfull of other PrCs to taste - you're on the right track.

You can't "lose" D&D by choosing a sub par class unless you don't find the class fun. Just because you wouldn't find the standard Paladin fun doesn't mean the OP won't. However, I don't think our advice is going to matter considering the date in which the OP posted this thread.



IMO, the Paladin's Special Mount is it's strongest class feature, because it can be upgraded via Leadership or a number of strong PrC options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6985038), such as Ashworm Dragoon or Aglarondan Griffin Rider.

Actually, I don't think Paladins can take ashworm dragoon. The Mount has a poison stinger and Paladins aren't allowed to use poison on a regular basis.

[Person_Man]

Actually, I don't think Paladins can take ashworm dragoon. The Mount has a poison stinger and Paladins aren't allowed to use poison on a regular basis.

Pg 67 of Sandstorm has the rules for Paladin Ashworm Dragoons. You remove the ashworm's stinger in a cheap ritual. It can't make a Poison attack, but gain the benefits of being your Special Mount (Empathic link, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Share Saving Throws, can be called from celestial realm, etc).

[Mystic Muse]

Pg 67 of Sandstorm has the rules for Paladin Ashworm Dragoons. You remove the ashworm's stinger in a cheap ritual. It can't make a Poison attack, but gain the benefits of being your Special Mount (Empathic link, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Share Saving Throws, can be called from celestial realm, etc).

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Eldariel]

IMO, the Paladin's Special Mount is it's strongest class feature, because it can be upgraded via Leadership or a number of strong PrC options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6985038), such as Ashworm Dragoon or Aglarondan Griffin Rider.

More importantly, you have access to Animal Companion and Familiar-stacks for something truly impressive.

[Doc Roc]

Divine Crusader + Time Domain + Ruby Knight Vindicator == funny as heck.

Say...

Paladin 4/Crusader 2/Divine Crusader 1/RKV 7/Contemplative 2/RKV 3/Whatever 1
Superior to grey guard in almost all cases. Contemplative will net you an extra domain, which may or may not give you more spells, depending on your GM's leniency.