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View Full Version : [3.5] Critique my spell/feat selection for a Favored Soul



Bulwer
2008-12-13, 04:27 PM
I've got a shiny new level 6 Favored Soul, and I'm looking for input on how to best utilize it. It's got very good stats with racial adjustments and items (20/18/18/14/18/21).

For spells, I went with the following:

0: Mending, Read Magic, Create Water, Detect Magic, Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance, Flag

1: Blade of Blood, Sanctuary, Comprehend Languages, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith

2: Owl's Wisdom, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Divine Insight

3: Dispel Magic, Cure Serious Wounds, Searing Light

By level 20, I'll have 9 level 0 spells, 6 level 1-7 spells, 5 level 8s, and 4 level 9s, so any advice you have that'll only pay off later is good too.

For feats, I have 5 (2 are from flaws). I've already picked Power Attack and Monkey Grip, necessary for optimal hitting of things, and I have 3 feats that I need to pick.

For both, anything is fair game that's published by WotC, and 3rd party stuff is probably fine if it's not obvious cheese. While this character is going to be a secondary, self-buffing tank, and a tertiary healer, things that add versatility are good too. Of course, combat feats are okay as well.

Thanks!

Hida Reju
2008-12-13, 04:39 PM
I would avoid Blade of Blood and even if it is a bit boring go for Bless, it has a long duration, area effect, and helps you hit things.

Instead of Bears endurance I would look at Spiritual Weapon for extra damage at low lvls or Hold Person(Save or Suck).

That is all I see at the moment but of couse this is just my opinion.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 04:46 PM
I would avoid Blade of Blood and even if it is a bit boring go for Bless, it has a long duration, area effect, and helps you hit things.

Instead of Bears endurance I would look at Spiritual Weapon for extra damage at low lvls or Hold Person(Save or Suck).

That is all I see at the moment but of couse this is just my opinion.

Swapping B'sE for Hold Person is a good idea, but why don't you like Blade of Blood? 3d6 damage is nothing to sneeze at. BTW, do you know if that's multiplied by crit?

EDIT: In general, things that scale by level are great: Favored Souls are pretty much stuck with what they have, with the exception of swapping 1 lower-level spell every two levels.

Keld Denar
2008-12-13, 04:47 PM
Ok, drop Monkey Grip. Its bad. Do a forum search here for Monkey Grip for more details. Trust me though, its not worth it.

Your 2nd level spell selection is weak. All of the "Animal" "Atribute" spells are bad, except for Snakes Swiftness, which TECHNICALLY isn't one of them. They don't last hours/level anymore, they last minutes/level. This is WAY too short to be useful. Plus, they are enhancement bonuses, and you should be getting items to give you those enhancement bonuses on an all day basis.

I'd suggest Silence for one. Its really useful. Close Wounds is an immediate action close range heal, which you can use on yourself, probably worth a slot, and one other. Maybe Spiritual Weapon since its a force effect, or Lesser Restoration, because stat damage sucks.

For 3rd, drop Searing Light, and pick up Ring of Blades if you want a damage spell. It'll do damage automatically when you are in melee. Its fun. More so than Searing Light.

For 1st level, swap out Sanctuary for Lesser Vigor. Its the best heal you can have between fights. Then you can probably trade Cure Critical for something more useful, like Prayer?

4th level, you definitely want to pick up Divine Powah. Its THE cleric spell. Only buff you should really be casting much in combat.


The only real problem with FS is that you don't get the DMM shanangans to keep up your best buffs all day. If you have to spend 2-3 rounds to buff yourself in combat before you start hitting stuff, you are Doing It Wrong(TM). Any fighter type worth his salt is gonna have things dead before you even join the combat, especially if he has a caster type behind him to assist. You are gonna try to get so that you cast ONLY Divine Power before going into combat. Too bad there isn't a divine version of Arcane Preperation, so that you could cast Quickened spells. DP + Quickened Divine Favor is a pretty awesome 1 round opener, using your move action to get into full attack position. Yea, FSs kind of nerf themselves.


Swapping B'sE for Hold Person is a good idea, but why don't you like Blade of Blood? 3d6 damage is nothing to sneeze at. BTW, do you know if that's multiplied by crit?

Its extra damage, like SA, so it probably wouldn't crit...although...I dunno, things like Shocking Grasp can crit, but BoB is adding to your weapon damage, not doing the damage itself...Hmmmm, I think my first idea is right, and that it wouldn't be multiplied.

Grynning
2008-12-13, 04:50 PM
For feats, I have 5 (2 are from flaws). I've already picked Power Attack and Monkey Grip, necessary for optimal hitting of things, and I have 3 feats that I need to pick.


Do NOT take Monkey Grip. It is a terrible feat, and the opposite of being "for optimal hitting of things" - if you use it you're basically taking a constant -2 to hit for 1.5 points of damage on average, and you're not a full BAB class. Don't do it.

As for your other feats and spells, what role are you taking in the party? Are you planning on being mostly a melee frontliner and buffer, or more of a caster? Right now your spell selection is sort of a mixed bag. Selecting the Cure Spells is probably unnecessary, you can just get wands and use them.

Edit: Ninja'd! Follow Keld's advice, it is solid.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 04:57 PM
Re Monkey Grip: I'm using it on a 1d12 weapon, so it's a big step up from 1d12 to 3d6, in max and average. Is there a better way to get that kind of boost from one feat?

Re Searing Light: Scales by level, no saving throw: what's not to like?

I'l certainly be dropping the animal spells and Sanctuary, though. Maybe Cure too.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm going to be a melee frontliner for sure, but I don't want to be stuck permanently in the role. More versatility is good.

Keld Denar
2008-12-13, 05:10 PM
Re Monkey Grip: I'm using it on a 1d12 weapon, so it's a big step up from 1d12 to 3d6, in max and average. Is there a better way to get that kind of boost from one feat?

The worst thing about MG is that you can't turn it off. Also, for average damage, you are only gaining +3.5 (7.5 to 10.5) damage. If you PAed for 2 points, you'd be getting +4 damage. Granted, your spike damage is much higher (18 instead of 12), but over time you'll do more damage with PA. The fact that you can't turn off MG is the killer. If you already had Righteous Might, it MIGHT be worth it, since you'd go from 1d12 to 3d6 to 4d6? Nah, probably not even then.


Re Searing Light: Scales by level, no saving throw: what's not to like?

Scales POORLY by level. VERY few cleric blasty spells scale well with level, and most of the ones that do are VERY specific, like Bolt of Glory and Sunbeam/burst. Ring of Blades does 1d8+CL every round to everyone adjacent to you, which is pretty good. Its a little less damage in 1 round, but is better by the 2nd round and every round after that is gravy. Makes bad guys think twice about surrounding you.

BTW, a 1 level dip in Sacred Exorcist would be awesome for your character at level 9 (I think?) since it gives you turn undead. You can then use those TU attempts to power Divine Might, which gives you +cha to all damage in a given round. Thats worth it with your Cha.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 10:38 PM
I think I'll go FS20, for the DR if it gets that high, and for the other class features earlier, if nothing else.

What about feats? Are there any that are particularly good, in sets of 3 or 4, or alone? I might forgo Monkey Grip for something nifty, but I still rather like it, no matter what you guys say.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-13, 10:41 PM
I think I'll go FS20, for the DR if it gets that high, and for the other class features earlier, if nothing else.

What about feats? Are there any that are particularly good, in sets of 3 or 4, or alone? I might forgo Monkey Grip for something nifty, but I still rather like it, no matter what you guys say.Power Attack is better than Monkey Grip. In almost all situations.

Also, what DR do you get? At level 20 damage is in the lower thousands, so it rarely matters.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 11:12 PM
Power Attack is better than Monkey Grip. In almost all situations.

Also, what DR do you get? At level 20 damage is in the lower thousands, so it rarely matters.

I know PA is better that Monkey Grip: I've got both, and a file of free feat slots.

And it's 10/cold iron. Perhaps more important than that are the 17th-level wings. Still, I could dip three levels in something and still get them eventually, but I'd lose the 3 good saves. At any rate, I'm certainly going Favored Soul 6 for now, so that's for later.

Vortling
2008-12-13, 11:14 PM
I think I'll go FS20, for the DR if it gets that high, and for the other class features earlier, if nothing else.

What about feats? Are there any that are particularly good, in sets of 3 or 4, or alone? I might forgo Monkey Grip for something nifty, but I still rather like it, no matter what you guys say.

Define what qualifies something as nifty. More damage? Better buffing? Elaborate for us and we can find you something nifty.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 11:19 PM
Define what qualifies something as nifty. More damage? Better buffing? Elaborate for us and we can find you something nifty.

Well, especially if I wind up ditching Monkey Grip, damage is good. Maybe a Reserve Feat for casting. Maybe a neat combat trick: stunning or some such. Maybe something for us Good characters to beat up on people?

Flickerdart
2008-12-13, 11:19 PM
I know PA is better that Monkey Grip: I've got both, and a file of free feat slots.

And it's 10/cold iron. Perhaps more important than that are the 17th-level wings. Still, I could dip three levels in something and still get them eventually, but I'd lose the 3 good saves. At any rate, I'm certainly going Favored Soul 6 for now, so that's for later.
Fly is a low-level spell everyone will have Permanent by that point, don't bother.

Use your feats on important things, like Luck of Heroes, which is an amazing 1st level feat, or even Combat Casting, just in case. Even a Skill Focus is better than Monkey Grip. You don't get many feats, don't waste them.

Damage is sub-optimal. Save or Dies/Loses/Sucks are a lot better, since they essentially take out an enemy right away. I'm not sure if they are on your spell list, but Hold Person is a nifty spell to have.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 11:26 PM
Fly is a low-level spell everyone will have Permanent by that point, don't bother.

Use your feats on important things, like Luck of Heroes, which is an amazing 1st level feat, or even Combat Casting, just in case. Even a Skill Focus is better than Monkey Grip. You don't get many feats, don't waste them.

I rather like the idea of the physical wings: it, along with the spontaneous divine casting, is the big draw of the Favored Soul. If I wanted Permanent Fly, I'd have picked Cleric.

Luck of Heroes is fine, but I'm a Favored Soul: three good saves anyway. Combat Casting is kind of eh: Skill Focus(Concentration) is better.

EDIT: Yup, I've got my pick of the Cleric list to cast spontaneously.

Flickerdart
2008-12-13, 11:30 PM
I do believe the fluff for Fly (hehe, alliteration) does actually manifest wings. But physical wings have the advantage of not crapping out in an Anti-magic field, so use that to your advantage when duking it out with airborne foes.

And are you going to focus on magic, or melee? Because by the looks of it, you want to hit things until they die. That means you'll want buffs, and lots of 'em.

Bulwer
2008-12-13, 11:36 PM
I do believe the fluff for Fly (hehe, alliteration) does actually manifest wings. But physical wings have the advantage of not crapping out in an Anti-magic field, so use that to your advantage when duking it out with airborne foes.

And are you going to focus on magic, or melee? Because by the looks of it, you want to hit things until they die. That means you'll want buffs, and lots of 'em.

Well, items provide by Enhancement bonuses, and they don't stack with various spells that do the same. Are there feats that provide across-the-board buffs to hit or similar? Unnamed save bonuses or damage boosts or stat boosts?

And while hitting things until they die is fine, I'm still at best a secondary tank. I was figuring to play the role of a Paladin but with more spells. Hit things, buff myself and the team, cast various utility spells.

Seatbelt
2008-12-14, 12:10 AM
On a related note, we've been using the feat Spontaneous Healer to essentially add the cureX spells to the favored soul's spell list. I have a feeling that this doesnt work, but I don't want to tell my DM that.

Bulwer
2008-12-14, 12:19 AM
On a related note, we've been using the feat Spontaneous Healer to essentially add the cureX spells to the favored soul's spell list. I have a feeling that this doesnt work, but I don't want to tell my DM that.

Don't see why not: I've got Cure Minor, it lets me swap out spells for Cure X spells. I've got the K(R) req met, I'm totally taking it.

EDIT: Still have two slots to fill, or 3 if there's something out there that can replace Monkey Grip's special place in my heart.

Grynning
2008-12-14, 10:26 AM
Well, besides PA, Combat Expertise > Improved Trip is usually pretty good for melee, but you have spells you can use for control purposes, so I would take caster type feats instead. Skill Focus: Concentration isn't bad for casting in melee (better than combat casting), and Improved Initiative never hurts.
Also, while it is generally hard for a FS to get metamagic, they are one of the few classes that actually gets some good use from the "Sudden" metamagic feats from Complete Arcane. Unfortunately, the best one, Sudden Quicken, is out of reach unless you can convince the DM to waive the ridiculous requirements, but Sudden Extend, Sudden Empower, and Sudden Still may all be decent for you. Also, from the same book, at level 11 you could grab Craft Contingent Spell and use it for some of your buffs, thus saving you actions in combat for gold (a lot of gold, but it would probably be worth it).