Woah, Belkar has gone over the edge

[BRC]

I just realized exactly how much Belkar has changed.
No, I'm not talking about sparing Crystal, it just means he's gone to cerebral cruelty, making her face her own unimportance and unhotness rather than killing her.

What I mean is that he didn't steal her knife, it's a +4 weapon, even if it's sized for a medium sized character, he could hawk it for some good cash, and nobody would say he hadn't earned it.

[Danger Jim]

I don't know. I've never noticed Belkar showing an interest in money. Seems to me he's only interested in killing.

[the_tick_rules]

I say this makes him worse. Just killing indiscriminately is easy. But a thinking sociopath is a real problem.

[Liwen]

We had always suspected he was clever, but simply to lasy, and maybe not clever enough to realise the advantages at the time, to actully use mind torture on his foes. In a way, he has become more sophisticated in his ways of doing evil.

And I still claim that deciding to pretend character growth constitute a advancement in itself. Belkar has changed.

Or maybe Rich is such an awesome writer he manage to trick me into believing Belkar and grown even though I know everything he does is an act...

OMG! STOP CRAWLING IN MY MIND RICH! THAT'S JUST ISN'T FAIR!

[Grail]

I don't know. I've never noticed Belkar showing an interest in money. Seems to me he's only interested in killing.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html) would indicate that belief to be false.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

this is what i dont get. belkare has changed? no. back in the D of Dorukon, slitting peoples throats is ok, but not taking a weapon on the ground is evil? and why do people say hes turned good? He sais he wants to build up brownie points with haley. why would he do that?
1) he wants to sleep with her
2) he wants money
3) ensure a spot on the order, who seems to always lead him into big fights
4) a team so he can have an exuse to massacre things

[BRC]

We had always suspected he was clever, but simply to lasy, and maybe not clever enough to realise the advantages at the time, to actully use mind torture on his foes. In a way, he has become more sophisticated in his ways of doing evil.
Oh, certainly. What he did to Crystal was a stroke of pure genius.

Crystal hates Haley, and what Belkar essentially said was "You only exist to be a nemesis to Haley, you only have purpose in relationship to her". If he killed Crystal, it would be saying "You are just another enemy to me", rather than saying "Your only purpose is to be killed by Haley". It is still plenty evil, incredibly so, but it's a smarter evil that could pass for "Good" in poor light.

[Latch]

I think that Belkar is kind of busy with the "there's an enemy I CAN kill right over there" thing and is as such too indisposed for looting. Plus, he might be leaving her the dagger for her next confrontation with Haley, thus emphasizing her existence merely as Haley's nemesis.

[NeonRonin]

The SSGOW has learned the lesson of Shojo well. Twelve Gods help us all...

[Partof1]

Belkar is waaayyy more awesome, now. Since those last couple panels, I can't picture hime without a tophat and monacle, or some sort of evil genius attire.:belkar:

[dps]

I just realized exactly how much Belkar has changed.
What I mean is that he didn't steal her knife, it's a +4 weapon, even if it's sized for a medium sized character, he could hawk it for some good cash, and nobody would say he hadn't earned it.

Probably didn't for the same reason that Haley didn't take all of the bows in Pete's den--you finish the fight first, then loot. If you stop to loot in the middle of a fight, it might well end up with your corpse being looted.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Probably didn't for the same reason that Haley didn't take all of the bows in Pete's den--you finish the fight first, then loot. If you stop to loot in the middle of a fight, it might well end up with your corpse being looted.
There's "looting" and then there's "leaving weapons within easy reach of the enemy." Even if he's sure nothing will happen heal her of enough hit points that she'd be willing to re-enter combat, a +4 dagger's beefy enough that you don't want to leave it where your enemy can get at it.

[Warren Dew]

And I still claim that deciding to pretend character growth constitute a advancement in itself. Belkar has changed.

He had changed, yes. Not all change is growth, though.

[shadowdemon_lord]

He's letting her keep her weapon because without it she would be completely helpless. Without her weapon near by their isn't even the possibility of her getting back on her feet and posing a threat to Haley, that makes for a pretty lame nemesis. Also, Belkar has a guild-master to kill. He doesn't want to have to carry around another dagger while in that fight. Kill everything, loot later.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

He's letting her keep her weapon because without it she would be completely helpless. Without her weapon near by their isn't even the possibility of her getting back on her feet and posing a threat to Haley, that makes for a pretty lame nemesis.
A disabled opponent that will drop unconcious the moment she tries to use said weapon is no better. It's not about maintaining a challenge for Haley. It's just about giving Haley the opportunity to finish Crystal off.


Also, Belkar has a guild-master to kill. He doesn't want to have to carry around another dagger while in that fight.
What burden will an extra dagger place upon him? He doesn't appear to be encumbered. And it will give him something to work with should he find it necessary toss his daggers again.

Assuming he was paying attention to the dagger at all, the only reason Belkar has to leave it within Crystal's reach is to let her know how little he thinks of her ability to harm him or Haley with it.

[ABB]

Sheesh, are you people kidding? I mean, is "Why didn't belkar take crystal's dagger?" even a question?

Look at it! I mean, good lord, between the shape of the blade and the color of the hilt if belkar even touched it he'd be getting gay jokes thrown at him till the day he died.

Seriously, that dagger looked like something I'd expect to see on Michale Jackson's wall or something...

[SPoD]

Assuming he was paying attention to the dagger at all, the only reason Belkar has to leave it within Crystal's reach is to let her know how little he thinks of her ability to harm him or Haley with it.

And isn't that reason enough?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

And isn't that reason enough?
Exactly my point.

And I suspect BRC's as well.

[Hydro Globus]

I know it's only tangentially on-topic here but...

...am I the only one to think that Haley won't kill Crystal seeing how helpless she is and all? I didn't know Haley for killing for the hell of it, and I'm not sure she will be able to kill Crystal.

[Chronos]

A disabled opponent that will drop unconcious the moment she tries to use said weapon is no better.Well, slightly better. Crystal could still try to stall Haley for three rounds, and then death attack her again (with something other than pickles). That'd leave Crystal at -1 and falling, but would at least have a chance to finish Haley off.

[Warlord JK]

Dramatic idea here, if Elan was explaining it, is that the arch-nemesis is only killed by the person who made him/her an arch-nemesis. The arch-nemesis sometimes comes close to dieing by another character's hand, but they always leave said arch-nemesis lying on the ground, nigh unconscious and with their weapon in reach. Geez, its not like its been 17 strips since we saw Elan. :smallwink:

[Scion_of_Darkness]

I know it's only tangentially on-topic here but...

...am I the only one to think that Haley won't kill Crystal seeing how helpless she is and all? I didn't know Haley for killing for the hell of it, and I'm not sure she will be able to kill Crystal.

I think that is pretty much the only way it can end if Haley is to maintain her character. She isn't the kill helpless people type. Especially if Belkar is around. He would never let her have any peace if she killed someone in cold blood after complaining about his sociopaths tendencies. Oh, and Celia would also complain.

[FrankNorman]

Look people, Belkar's new thing is to get other people to kill helpless people that they have a reason to want to kill.
There's a moral line between that and killing in self-defense. Belkar wants to get people over that line.

First the cleric guy, then Haley.

[Danger Jim]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html) would indicate that belief to be false.

I stand corrected

[only1doug]

Well, slightly better. Crystal could still try to stall Haley for three rounds, and then death attack her again (with something other than pickles) take a standard action to pick up a dagger. That'd leave Crystal at -1 and falling, but would at least have a chance to finish Haley off dagger in her hand.

Fixed that for you.

[Greep]

I know it's only tangentially on-topic here but...

...am I the only one to think that Haley won't kill Crystal seeing how helpless she is and all? I didn't know Haley for killing for the hell of it, and I'm not sure she will be able to kill Crystal.

heck, referring to the 3-head chimera in the dungeon of dorukon, she'd rather keep a recurring villain alive to keep on plundering it for exp :D Besides, maybe she... dun dun dun... also knows something about her father's whereabouts.

[Totally Guy]

I know it's only tangentially on-topic here but...

...am I the only one to think that Haley won't kill Crystal seeing how helpless she is and all? I didn't know Haley for killing for the hell of it, and I'm not sure she will be able to kill Crystal.

Which is why he'd leave the dagger. Haley needs a motivation to kill crystal, Belkar will maintain it.

On money... How did Belkar react when the inn exploded. He made fun of Haley because she'd lost her voice and made fun of Roy for being a girl. No reaction at all to the treasure loss.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Well, slightly better. Crystal could still try to stall Haley for three rounds, and then death attack her again (with something other than pickles). That'd leave Crystal at -1 and falling, but would at least have a chance to finish Haley off.
Death attack only works if the victim is unaware of the assassin or does not recognize the assassin as an enemy during the study period (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/assassin.html#assassin-death-attack). So Crystal would have to be hiding somewhere, not simply stallling. And it also requires Crystal to be willing to go to negatives just to get Haley, which I don't think she is.


Fixed that for you.
Picking up an item is only a move action (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/actionsInCombat.html#manipulate-an-item) and would not hurt a disabled character.

[dragoncmd]

Sheesh, are you people kidding? I mean, is "Why didn't belkar take crystal's dagger?" even a question?

Look at it! I mean, good lord, between the shape of the blade and the color of the hilt if belkar even touched it he'd be getting gay jokes thrown at him till the day he died.

Seriously, that dagger looked like something I'd expect to see on Michale Jackson's wall or something...

Really this is the only plausible reason. Even with her disabled, he can be healed if someone from the thieves guild knows even the slightest of healing spells. Leaving a normal weapon with her would be fine, but thats a +4 dagger. There is absolutely no reason from a game mechanics standpoint, that belkar would not take the dagger. As for some of the plot reasons, its possible that belkar did want to preserve a challenge for haley, but seriously, just keeping crystal alive should be enough, don't let her keep her best weapon.

I'm wondering if the giant did this conciously or not.

[David Argall]

I'm wondering if the giant did this conciously or not.

It has a good deal of a gun on the mantle look to it. I suppose it is possible our artist just thought it looked neat, but it was extra work to put it there, and that suggests there will be extra use made of it.

[ABB]

Really this is the only plausible reason. Even with her disabled, he can be healed if someone from the thieves guild knows even the slightest of healing spells. Leaving a normal weapon with her would be fine, but thats a +4 dagger. There is absolutely no reason from a game mechanics standpoint, that belkar would not take the dagger.


There is a non mechanic reason for the belkstar not to take the dagger.

In the hands of a woman, a dagger with that color hilt and curvy blade says "Bad!"

In the hands of a man, the same dagger says either "Elf!" or "Gay!"

Now since Belkar doens't have pointed ears...

[Greep]

There is a non mechanic reason for the belkstar not to take the dagger.

In the hands of a woman, a dagger with that color hilt and curvy blade says "Bad!"

In the hands of a man, the same dagger says either "Elf!" or "Gay!"

Now since Belkar doens't have pointed ears...

still.. would you rather been known for girly colored hilts or "shrinkage" :smallbiggrin:

[only1doug]

Death attack only works if the victim is unaware of the assassin or does not recognize the assassin as an enemy during the study period (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/assassin.html#assassin-death-attack). So Crystal would have to be hiding somewhere, not simply stallling. And it also requires Crystal to be willing to go to negatives just to get Haley, which I don't think she is.


Picking up an item is only a move action (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/actionsInCombat.html#manipulate-an-item) and would not hurt a disabled character.

you don't think prying that dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html) out of the floor would count as strenuous? OK, we'll not argue it.

[planswalker]

My answer to the conundrum is a roleplaying one: belkar has low wisdom, therefore his character was unwise enough to not notice the dagger and think that it could make a threat out of someone at 0 hp.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

you don't think prying that dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html) out of the floor would count as strenuous? OK, we'll not argue it.
It's not the sword in the stone. It's a +4 dagger. It went in nice and clean, and it's bound to come out nice and clean. I'm sure it cuts through basic floor like butter. No prying necessary.