[3.5] Tank builds?

[Malacode]

I'm after a Cohort for my Leadership feat as figured the party I'm in could use a Damage Sponge... But I've never played anything but magic users. Yeah, help is required, as I'm really not that great at character building. The character doesn't need to do damage, or be good at anything, just needs to take hits which would otherwise be targeted at our valuble mages. Anything you can suggest would be really appreciated. Oh, any the DM's using the C rule. Core and Complete series only, no other sourcebooks. Thanks in advance.

[Eldariel]

Druid. Failing that, Spiked Chain Fighter with Standstill and prolly Improved Trip.

[bosssmiley]

Core cleric. Just have him self-buff and act as a speedbump. Any books outside of Core are just gravy.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Cleric or Druid would be the way to go. Psychic Warrior would be another decent option of it's SRD-Core.

For a Druid have him get Natural Bond (CV) and one of the Level -3 companions, since that feat will negate the drawback. His pet will be extremely tanky, and so will he when he gets Wild Shape. Make him a Human with Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning at level 1 so he can make additional meat-shields. Stay single-classed and get Natural Spell and it's almost impossible for this character to not be useful.

A Cleric should go into Radiant Servant of Pelor if you're good-aligned. Give him the Sun and Healing domains, Improved Turning, Augment Healing, Extra Turning, Divine Shield (CW), and probably Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Arms and Armor, and get the Glory domain from RSoP. He should have some heavy armor/shield and a Lesser Rod of Extend to put Magic Vestment on both. This will be able to tank, Greater Turning-destroy most undead you'll encounter, heal, and basically act as a secondary-everything.

[jcsw]

Elan Psion.

Take the:
1. Improved Elan Repletion Feat (CPsi)
2. Vigor Power, which he can share with his psicrystal
3. Damp Power Power (CPsi)
4. Energy Adaptation Power
5. Share Pain Power, especially with his Psicrystal to get usage out of the vigors he's been sharing with it
6. Empathic Transfer Power
7. Expanded Knowledge into Dimension Swap

[Keld Denar]

My Urgrosh (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15422232&postcount=1) build comes close to your restrictions. Uses one class in Races of Stone that is by no means over powered. Take a looksie.

[RTGoodman]

Well, do you guys consider PHB2 "Core enough?" It's basically another "Complete" book anyway, but for everyone instead of one archetype. If it's okay, what about just a normal Human Knight? What you're describing is EXACTLY what they do (challenge foes to attack them instead of the squishier folks).

If it's not allowed, just go with standard Human Spiked Chain Fighter with Power Attack, Stand-Still, Improved Trip, and such.

[kamikasei]

Your basic problem is that Core+Completes doesn't give you any good way to get enemies to attack one character rather than another. Just making a character with high HP and defense but low attack and damage means the enemies can go after the others who are easier to kill and more of a threat.

Unless you can get the PHB2 and use the Knight's abilities to force enemies to attack him, your best bet is either a tripping build to stop enemies moving past you or a druid (as mentioned) who can put obstacles down between the attacker and target.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Large Fighter(any race) with a Spiked Chain, Improved Trip, Stand Still, and Knockdown. Toss in Improved Initiative and Imp Toughness and you have a sponge.

[Celeres]

what level will this character be?

[Malacode]

I like the look of the Urogosh build, but it was because of some twinky tricks with the Deepwarden class that I'm limited to the C's.. Which means I'll just substitute another class. Oh, and the PHBII is fine, as are all the MM's. The character is only up to level 16, as I'm an eighteenth level charrie

[monty]

I've found that one of the most effective ways to make a tank is to put out enough damage that they consider you as much of a threat as the casters. It's tough to pull off, but on the other hand, if they ignore you, they're going to die.

[Kaiyanwang]

I've found that one of the most effective ways to make a tank is to put out enough damage that they consider you as much of a threat as the casters. It's tough to pull off, but on the other hand, if they ignore you, they're going to die.

This. Stiky tank is not for D&D 'till 4.0, IMHO.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

This. Stiky tank is not for D&D 'till 4.0, IMHO.Well, it is, and requires only the SRD, but it is hard, and somewhat ineffective still.

[Telonius]

I like the look of the Urogosh build, but it was because of some twinky tricks with the Deepwarden class that I'm limited to the C's.. Which means I'll just substitute another class. Oh, and the PHBII is fine, as are all the MM's. The character is only up to level 16, as I'm an eighteenth level charrie

If PHB2 is okay and you want to avoid some of the stinkier cheese, I'd say that Knight (Possibly with a couple levels of Fighter thrown in for the feats) is the way to go to achieve what you're describing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you can't use the Wild Shape variant of Ranger from UA then just substitute Druid.

Human, Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ War Shaper 4, future levels go MoMF 1/ Ranger 1/ MoMF 2

Feats: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Track, Endurance, Alertness, Leap Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knock Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown), and at 18 get Defensive Sweep.

Ability Scores: Str 15+, Dex doesn't matter, Con high, Int 13+, Wis priority, Cha doesn't matter.

Items: Monk's Belt, Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Armbands of Might, Large +1 Spell Storing Glaive, Gloves of Dex +6, Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Protection, 1st level Pearls of Power, etc.

Spells: Rhino's Rush

Combat Forms: War Troll, Cave Troll, with Frozen Wild Shape from Frostburn you'd get Cryohydra...

[Kizara]

Make a frenzied beserker. Come on, you know you want to. It'll have boatloads of HP, and by this level deathless frenzy as well.

Barb 1/ftr 2/hex 3/FB 10 (occult slayer 4 if you need 4 more levels after that).

Extra Rage (1st), Intimidating rage (1st), Power Attack (Ftr 1), Cleave (ftr 2), Destructive Rage (level 3), Leap Attack (6th), Improved Crit (9th), Improved Bull Rush (12th), Shock Trooper (15th).

If you can take flaws, it works alot better. Take Shaky and Vulnerable (his AC is going to be negative anyways).

Flaw 1: Improved Bull rush, Flaw 2: Improved Initiative
Take Mage Slayer as your 12th-level feat instead of ImpBR.

Grab a +6 str belt, a ring of freedom of movement, and have your caster deal with any disables on him, and you have your 'tank'.

[Medic]

Ask your DM for the use of Devoted Defender.

It's what you really want. Cleric + Devoted Defender = Unhittable Wall that can protect you. Just make sure they have the travel domain for free "no grapple". Devoted defender being grappled stops them from doing their job.

[Kizara]

Ask your DM for the use of Devoted Defender.

It's what you really want. Cleric + Devoted Defender = Unhittable Wall that can protect you. Just make sure they have the travel domain for free "no grapple". Devoted defender being grappled stops them from doing their job.

Or just cast Freedom of Movement, 4th-level cleric spell...

[RebelRogue]

Make a frenzied beserker.
Also, stock up on Wands of Calm Emotions! :smallwink:

[Mushroom Ninja]

Make a frenzied beserker.


The only problem is if you're not careful, you'll accidentally TPK the party. :smallbiggrin:

[Person_Man]

King of Smack redux uses nothing but the SRD (Complete Psionics). You could also pull off a Nanobots build with nothing but an Exemplar and an Animate Objects spell (Aid Another is an unnamed bonus. Summon a bunch of tiny friends, and have each of them Aid Another on your AC or To-Hit or Skills).

Also, you don't need a cohort to fill the role that you want. You can just Summon a few monsters and have them stand around you and ready an action to attack anyone who threatens you.

[Kizara]

Also, you don't need a cohort to fill the role that you want. You can just Summon a few monsters and have them stand around you and ready an action to attack anyone who threatens you.

Really, this. Cast Gate, summon in a Solar or something. Win.

[Grommen]

If your frenzyed Berzerker has not killed a party member by 16th level, your just not trying :).

Knights are a good choise too. Give him a big mouth and high charisma and have him talk the smack all the time.

Although a Frenzyed Berzerker would do a crap load of damage. A better offience sometimes beats out a good defence.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Although a Frenzyed Berzerker would do a crap load of damage. A better offience sometimes almost always beats out a good defence.

Fixed it :smallwink:

[Medic]

Or just cast Freedom of Movement, 4th-level cleric spell...

True but at 10 minutes per level its not feasible to do the all day thing. I guess you could persist it with DMM.

Once the ability kicks off you have time to cast FoM.

[Kizara]

True but at 10 minutes per level its not feasible to do the all day thing. I guess you could persist it with DMM.

Once the ability kicks off you have time to cast FoM.

You cast it when you get in a fight?

You have more then 1 prepared?

The dude is at level 16 and its a 4th-level spell ffs. Its also one of the BEST 4th-level spells.

Heck, at that level, if you really wanted to you could get it permanancied.

[MeklorIlavator]

Also, at 16th level, just buy a ring of Freedom of Movement. Or, if you have the Magic Item Compenduim, get the armor quality that mimics freedom of movement.

[Kizara]

Also, at 16th level, just buy a ring of Freedom of Movement.

A bit wasteful as a full cleric, don't you think? I mean, the spell lasts for 3 hours already, do you really need an item to replicate it?

[Eldariel]

Use Extend Spell and two-three level 5 slots. Alternatively, use the Metamagic Rod: Extend. It's easy enough to keep it active most day, and the rest of the day you'll probably be resting in Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion too..

[herrhauptmann]

I'm not sure what it's called, but there's a psion power which effectively quadrupled the HP of the psion in our ECL 15 game.

Here's some cheese:
Half ogre (something), huge spiked chain (strong arm bracers). Not sure if a spiked chain doubles reach for large creatures, or just improves reach by 5 feet...
3 levels in stoneblessed. (He's now effectively a dwarf or goliath or gnome, and can take the feats and PrC's restricted to those races) That will eat up the first 6 of his levels.
Exotic weapon master 1(flurry of strikes)
I think you said Deepwarden wasn't allowed, but if it were, con to AC instead of dex. (Half ogre gets +2con, and so do stoneblessed). Awesomeness is minimized a little since you want a high dex for extra AOOs.
Throw in some warhulk for +2 str per level. However you lose iterative attacks when you do, as well as all skills that work off of int/wis/cha except intimidate.

Feats:Standstill or hold the line, combat reflex, exotic weapon/weapon focus chain.

[Tokiko Mima]

If it's a low level campaign, but you want to protect against all sorts of different sources, consider a Karsite Dragonfire Adept. Karsites have all the traits of humans, plus the spell resistance of Drow, ability bonuses and Martial Weapon and Armor Proficiencies.

The fun part of Karsites is you can easily get Tower shield proficiency, and use it to it's maximum advantage with Dragonfire Adept. Just dress in the heaviest toughest armor you can afford, with the most powerful Tower Shield possible. Weapons are irrelevant since as a DFA you'll be blasting with your Dragonfire, a supernatural ability unaffected by armor or requiring Concentration checks. Try to choose Draconic invocations that last for 24 hours, so you can cast them in advance without worrying about Arcane Spellcasting Failure.

In this way, you'll have massive AC, decent saves, and very good spell resistance. Your racial CON bonus even makes up somewhat for your lower hit dice. You can draw enemy attention in a large area every round with your Breath attack. If things come down to melee attacks, don't despair, because Karsites have a chance to drain magic items on a successful hit. If your spell resistance protects you from a spell, you actually use the spell to heal yourself.

[Triaxx]

High Dex Barbarian, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Spiked Chain. Consider Eyes in the Back of your head to keep the flankers down. Goad might be good if you have the spare points for high Charisma. Probably want Greater Resiliency as well.

[Celeres]

if you want a character who is very good at absorbing blows, use a fighter/dwarven defender with two shields and the goad feat.

if he's not attacking, two +5 shields is the way to go.

if he gets 16th level gold, put some +5 spikes of defending on both of them. get a +5 heavy forticated full plate, with +5 defending spikes.

take combat expertise and improved combat expertise to go with it.

con and charisma high as possible. cloak of charisma +6 to make it harder to resist the goad. amulet of health +6 for health. put your ability points into either charisma or constitution

defensive stance, ac bonus, etc.

before you know it, you have this little dwarf in front of you, challenging everyone to hit em, and the most they can do is average damage on what should be a critical blow. sounds like a good sponge to me.

[Kaiyanwang]

TWO shields?

[Medic]

You cast it when you get in a fight?

You have more then 1 prepared?

The dude is at level 16 and its a 4th-level spell ffs. Its also one of the BEST 4th-level spells.

Heck, at that level, if you really wanted to you could get it permanancied.

ROFL I missed the level 16 part. There is no reason then to not precast it I agree.

and With a bead of Karma he can "make" his own armor and shield +5.

The real thing this character needs is something to combat dispelling.

[Keld Denar]

if you want a character who is very good at absorbing blows, use a fighter/dwarven defender with two shields and the goad feat.


No no no no...

Shields give shield bonuses to AC. They don't stack. Just like you can't wear Studded Leather under your Full Plate, you only gain the benefit of the better one.

Its debateable whether or not you can claim the bonus of a defending weapon that you aren't attacking with. While you are wielding it, you aren't attacking with it to satisfy the "before you attack" clause.

Dwarven Defender + Goad? Unless you are a gold dwarf, dwarves have penalties to Cha, which is the primary stat for Goad. Also, the save DCs even with a high Cha are still rather easy to make for anything that is a EL appropriate challenge, so its REALLY unreliable.

Plus, all of your AC is not gonna help you vs a will save. Granted, at least you aren't a threat to your party if you get confused to dominated. But thats about it.

Better to just kill your foe faster. Dead enemies don't do any damage.

[Kaiyanwang]

I think the DD with enough splatbooks if carefully builded could be useful in campaigns involving cetaing groups of creatures, and thight speces like underdark caves and so on.

I'm not a fan of sticky tanks, as I said before, and I prefer the "slay the threat don't hold it" warrior, but in some istances not optimal could have an edge. Maybe not with shields but with combat reflexes and polearms. Dunno.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, thats right. About the only way to really "tank" in D&D is through the use of Combat Reflexes + Thicket of Blades + Standstill, or to kill whatever is causing you problems. As a fighter type, your primary responsibility is not control. Leave that to the Wizards, Clerics, Bards, Dragonfire Adepts, Warlocks, and other classes with wall and fog spells, movement hindering spells and abilities, and other disables. They can control baddies better than you can with very little effort.

[kalt]

fighter/deep warden/ dwarven defender.

That should get the job done.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

fighter/deep warden/ dwarven defender.

That should get the job done.No, it won't. The DD has already been debunked in this thread, and anything Fighter can do Warblade can do better.

[Celeres]

Plus, all of your AC is not gonna help you vs a will save. Granted, at least you aren't a threat to your party if you get confused to dominated. But thats about it.


the will save is by no means a problem. i made a dwarf who ran under the idea of uber tank (but at the time i wasn't aware of most of the things i could do to make him a better tank.) would have had a +12 will save at level 9, 14 in defensive stance. which i know isn't super, but it's better than your average martial character. Steadfast determination is a wonderful feat for tanks.

however, reflex saves are a problem.

[Eldariel]

the will save is by no means a problem. i made a dwarf who ran under the idea of uber tank (but at the time i wasn't aware of most of the things i could do to make him a better tank.) would have had a +12 will save at level 9, 14 in defensive stance. which i know isn't super, but it's better than your average martial character. Steadfast determination is a wonderful feat for tanks.

however, reflex saves are a problem.

Your HP mostly makes up for the Reflex-saves. That's the thing - you can only defend against Fort-save spells with Fortitude-save generally, against Will-save spells with Will-save generally, but against Reflex-saves, you can defend with both, Reflex-save and HP. Same with attacks - you defend with AC and HP. That's why HP is the best defense - it's the most applicable. And likewise, that's why spells that ignore HP are the best - they get past the strongest defense an opponent has.

No amount of defenses is gonna help you if you can't keep your allies alive though, and DD can't do that outside 5' corridors.