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arguskos
2008-12-15, 10:20 AM
So, what is the standard ubercharger build? Race, class, feats, the whole deal. I wanted to give a sugliin ubercharger a try, and figured that since casters are more my deal, I might want some advice.

Thoughts? Advice? "Urdoinitwrong"? :smallwink:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-15, 10:24 AM
Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute.
Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker.
Play something with good Str and season to taste.

arguskos
2008-12-15, 10:28 AM
Hmm. Any good races I should be aware of? I don't know too many +4 Str, LA +0 races.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-12-15, 10:29 AM
Hmm. Any good races I should be aware of? I don't know too many +4 Str, LA +0 races.

Pure Orc.

22 Str at level one for the win.

Grab one of the magic items that removes Light Sensitivity, and you're golden.

monty
2008-12-15, 10:29 AM
Orc, for one.

Edit: no, ninja won't be very useful for this build.

arguskos
2008-12-15, 10:31 AM
Pure Orc.

22 Str at level one for the win.

Grab one of the magic items that removes Light Sensitivity, and you're golden.
Yah, I was thinking Orc. Are there any others though (Orcs don't tickle my fancy)?

Kaiyanwang
2008-12-15, 10:31 AM
Orc. WWAAAAAGH!

Ninjas!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-15, 10:32 AM
LA isn't as bad on these, but really, it's the classes and feats that matter. It's not complicated until you're trying to get into the upper thousands. Standard melee races all generally work(Orc, Dwarf, Human, Half-Ogre). Centaur is incredible, if you can afford the adjustments.

monty
2008-12-15, 10:33 AM
You can probably afford a few LA on this, since BAB only really matters for the iteratives (your to-hit will be ridiculous enough anyway).

arguskos
2008-12-15, 10:35 AM
Fair enough. I might give Neanderthal a shot, for the flavor (I REALLY like sugliin). Maybe Orc or Half-Giant though... hmm....

Thanks for the aid guys. Appreciate it. :smallbiggrin:

Keld Denar
2008-12-15, 10:35 AM
Orc also allows you to take the Headless Charge feat, for another doubling. The sick thing about Ubercharger is stacking on multipliers, rather than static damage. When you are doing something like 36x PA damage, you know you are doing something right (or terribly terribly wrong!).

Also, gear includes a Valourous (+1, Unapproachable East?) weapon which doubles damage on a charge.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-15, 10:48 AM
Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute.
Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker.
Play something with good Str and season to taste.

How many times do I have to say it?

FRENZIED BERZERKER IS A TRAP AND A TPK WAITING TO HAPPEN

Sooner or later, you are going to blow your Will save. When you do, you will wipe the party. It is not necessary to use it to make a perfectly usable Ubercharger build.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-15, 10:53 AM
How many times do I have to say it?

FRENZIED BERZERKER IS A TRAP AND A TPK WAITING TO HAPPEN

Sooner or later, you are going to blow your Will save. When you do, you will wipe the party. It is not necessary to use it to make a perfectly usable Ubercharger build.True, but it gives the best numbers, which is what the OP wanted. In fact, I view FB as a massive trap as well, but TPKs are preventable with proper applications of Calm Emotions and Grease.

Khatoblepas
2008-12-15, 10:58 AM
How many times do I have to say it?

FRENZIED BERZERKER IS A TRAP AND A TPK WAITING TO HAPPEN


A level in Thayan Knight and a Red Wizard Cohort?

Calm Emotions. It's what's for just desserts.

I'd like to have a Red Wizard with a Frenzied Berserker cohort, actually. Some bodyguard!

(Also, isn't Battle Jump a regional feat for gnolls from Thay?)

Mushroom Ninja
2008-12-15, 11:06 AM
How many times do I have to say it?

FRENZIED BERZERKER IS A TRAP AND A TPK WAITING TO HAPPEN

Sooner or later, you are going to blow your Will save. When you do, you will wipe the party. It is not necessary to use it to make a perfectly usable Ubercharger build.

Just make sure the rest of the party can fly.

Kaiyanwang
2008-12-15, 11:08 AM
Or use Exalted Cheese (some people makes Righteous Fury work that way).

Mushroom Ninja
2008-12-15, 11:11 AM
Or use Exalted Cheese (some people makes Righteous Fury work that way).

Yeah, the frenzied beserker uses something from BoED to stop her from impaling us.

Saph
2008-12-15, 11:15 AM
I have to say that uberchargers don't work very well in my experience. Basically they turn every battle into a binary solution set:

a) You charge and hit! You kill everything.
b) You don't charge and hit! You're useless.

Since uberchargers deal such ridiculous damage, there's no real in-between where you only damage the target - either your trick works and you wipe it out, or you can't do anything. It's all or nothing, and leads to really uneven battles.

- Saph

Kaiyanwang
2008-12-15, 11:18 AM
I have to say that uberchargers don't work very well in my experience. Basically they turn every battle into a binary solution set:

a) You charge and hit! You kill everything.
b) You don't charge and hit! You're useless.

Since uberchargers deal such ridiculous damage, there's no real in-between where you only damage the target - either your trick works and you wipe it out, or you can't do anything. It's all or nothing, and leads to really uneven battles.

- Saph

True. You can overcome this in two ways:

- Make your party slightly focused (magic, buffs, and so on) on allow you charge - meh... from one-trick pony to one-trick ponies

-Take the four essential ubercharger feats and then focus on something else. I my experience, good Fighters are half-ubercharger half combat reflexes cheese (not the unique way to do a good meleer obviously but..).

Mushroom Ninja
2008-12-15, 11:35 AM
-Take the four essential ubercharger feats and then focus on something else. I my experience, good Fighters are half-ubercharger half combat reflexes cheese (not the unique way to do a good meleer obviously but..).

I agree. Go Wolf-Totem-Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Beserker and use a spiked chain or something.

olelia
2008-12-15, 11:41 AM
What book is Shock trooper from anyway?

Mushroom Ninja
2008-12-15, 11:42 AM
What book is Shock trooper from anyway?

Complete warrior, I believe

Keld Denar
2008-12-15, 11:52 AM
(Also, isn't Battle Jump a regional feat for gnolls from Thay?)

Battle Jump is a regional feat from the Taer region, which is part of Thay(occupied). Taer civilization is mostly Rashami in decent, IIRC. Rashami are human. Nothing says you have to be a gnoll. A human who lived amongst gnolls or studied gnolls in any way could learn the technique. You'd probably be Rashami though, but there is nothing wrong with that (*cough* oppressed peoples plot device *cough*).

Hal
2008-12-15, 01:03 PM
Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute.
Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker.
Play something with good Str and season to taste.

I didn't see it on here, but also under the "ubercharger" build is a mounted character. Probably Paladin/Cavalier with Mounted Combat/Ride-by Attack/Spirited Charge, wielding a lance. Cast Rhino's Rush, power attack while two-handing the lance. Throw in whatever other PA/charge enhancing feats you want.

Random NPC
2008-12-15, 01:08 PM
For all of you wusses afraid of Frenzied BerTPKer, I got ya three words.


Iron. Heart. Surge.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-15, 01:23 PM
Battle Jump is a regional feat from the Taer region, which is part of Thay(occupied). Taer civilization is mostly Rashami in decent, IIRC. Rashami are human. Nothing says you have to be a gnoll. A human who lived amongst gnolls or studied gnolls in any way could learn the technique. You'd probably be Rashami though, but there is nothing wrong with that (*cough* oppressed peoples plot device *cough*).

Taers are a separate race detailed in Unapproachable East, the region was changed to The Icerim Mountains in PGtF, but it's still a race-specific feat. Just like a Human can't take Kn: Local ranks to pick up Otherworldly, it is impossible to take Battle Jump on a non-Taer. They have two Giant racial hit dice and a +1 LA, not really worth it considering the Complete Champion's Lion Totem Barbarian gets Pounce at level 1.

Hida Reju
2008-12-15, 02:10 PM
For all of you wusses afraid of Frenzied BerTPKer, I got ya three words.


Iron. Heart. Surge.

By RAW that works but I would eat my DMG before I let a player exploit the system like that. Frenzied Beserker was a mistake to even create and the mechanics behind it are both stupid and one sided.

arguskos
2008-12-15, 02:35 PM
I have to say that uberchargers don't work very well in my experience. Basically they turn every battle into a binary solution set:

a) You charge and hit! You kill everything.
b) You don't charge and hit! You're useless.

Since uberchargers deal such ridiculous damage, there's no real in-between where you only damage the target - either your trick works and you wipe it out, or you can't do anything. It's all or nothing, and leads to really uneven battles.

- Saph
While quite true, the ubercharger feats and basic attack plan are pretty solid for melee tankers. I was just looking for the stuff that makes a melee guy great at charging to open combat with. In my estimation, if I can charge and deal 2d8+65 damage, I should be pretty decent afterwards (big two handed weapon+good strength=moderately decent melee guy). Besides, what at level 8 is going to die to 2d8+65? Really? It'll just hurt like hell, not die in one swing.

Glimbur
2008-12-15, 02:45 PM
Just "buff" the Frenzied Berserker with Levitate pre-battle. Then at the end the wizard can raise up the FB until frenzy ends. This does mean you'll want a way of healing at a range, but that's a better problem to have to fix than a Frenzied Berserker with no foes left.

Saph
2008-12-15, 02:46 PM
I was just looking for the stuff that makes a melee guy great at charging to open combat with. In my estimation, if I can charge and deal 2d8+65 damage, I should be pretty decent afterwards (big two handed weapon+good strength=moderately decent melee guy). Besides, what at level 8 is going to die to 2d8+65? Really? It'll just hurt like hell, not die in one swing.

Ah, I'd call that a charger rather than an ubercharger.

A charger can charge and do lots of damage, but only spends a few feats on it and can do other things too. An ubercharger is a one-trick pony that does absolutely nothing except charge, but can hit for truly silly numbers (anywhere from hundreds to thousands, depending on level and permissiveness of the DM).

- Saph

arguskos
2008-12-15, 02:50 PM
Ah, I'd call that a charger rather than an ubercharger.

A charger can charge and do lots of damage, but only spends a few feats on it and can do other things too. An ubercharger is a one-trick pony that does absolutely nothing except charge, but can hit for truly silly numbers (anywhere from hundreds to thousands, depending on level and permissiveness of the DM).

- Saph
Yeah... I'd do more damage, but can't figure out how. Oh, and I don't want to break the DM. :smallwink:

I figure, at level 8, that's solid enough damage that I don't need to care about anything more complex.

BRC
2008-12-15, 02:52 PM
Take the "Street Fighter" varient from the Cityscape online suppliment. If I remember correctly, you give up DR in exchange for many nifty charging things. At 18th level you get whats essentially a "Cleaving Charge", if you charge and drop somebody and still have enough movement left, you can charge somebody else, and so on and so forth until you run out of movement, enemies, or you fail to kill somebody with your charge.

Keld Denar
2008-12-15, 02:56 PM
Taers are a separate race detailed in Unapproachable East, the region was changed to The Icerim Mountains in PGtF, but it's still a race-specific feat. Just like a Human can't take Kn: Local ranks to pick up Otherworldly, it is impossible to take Battle Jump on a non-Taer. They have two Giant racial hit dice and a +1 LA, not really worth it considering the Complete Champion's Lion Totem Barbarian gets Pounce at level 1.

The CharOp boards and text from Unapproachable East would beg to differ. 2 ranks in Know:Local WOULD let you take Battle Jump. The rule for this is on Page 40 of UE.



Regional Feats: The feats specific to characters of the region. Regional feats are usually exclusive to characters who choose a preferred class in a partigular region. However, a character with 2 ranks in Knowledge(local) pertaining to a region qualifies to select regional feats from that region.

Last sentance, in print.

Looking further down the book, we find Battle Jump, a Fighter bonus and general feat. It requires the Region:Taer. Thats it. You don't have to actually BE a Taer. Thus, 2 ranks in Know:Local(Taer) would qualify a charger character to take Battle Jump at 1st level. BJ MUST be taken at 1st level though, as dictated by the rules for Regional feats.

Kaiyanwang
2008-12-15, 03:13 PM
So, mandatory question: for Batlle Jump, you MUST start your jump from above? or you must be at least 5 feet above your target? Because for a good leaper (or a Legendary Leaper) this could make a difference...

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-15, 03:19 PM
For all of you wusses afraid of Frenzied BerTPKer, I got ya three words.


Iron. Heart. Surge.

Which cannot be initiated during a Frenzy. Your point?

Keld Denar
2008-12-15, 03:22 PM
Nope, you don't have to start above. You just have to throw yourself downward immediately before attacking. Thus, a high enough jump check (which synergizes with Leap Attack) a few feat away from whatever it is you want to attack will get you over their head high enough that you can then "throw" yourself downward and land in front of them, delivering your devistating Ubercharge. Its kind of like being a Dragoon, minus the fanboys. Or maybe YOU are a dragoon fanboy. Regardless, whatever you hit will NOT like it, if it even has enough time for cognitive though after you cleave it from crown to crotch.


Which cannot be initiated during a Frenzy. Your point?

Why not? Its not a dex, con, int, wis, or cha based skill. Its not Combat Expertese or an Item Creation feat, and its not spellcasting. Those are the only things that rage and frenzy (combined) prevent you from doing.

ericgrau
2008-12-15, 03:26 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm

Rage also prevents you from using any abilities that requires patience or concentration, and some other misc stuff. Maybe someone else will chime in with more details on iron heart surge, and say whether or not that applies.

monty
2008-12-15, 03:27 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm

Rage also prevents you from using any abilities that requires patience or concentration, and some other misc stuff.

And maneuvers don't require concentration (well, some do, but not this one). What's your point?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-15, 03:28 PM
The CharOp boards and text from Unapproachable East would beg to differ. 2 ranks in Know:Local WOULD let you take Battle Jump. The rule for this is on Page 40 of UE.

Last sentance, in print.

Looking further down the book, we find Battle Jump, a Fighter bonus and general feat. It requires the Region:Taer. Thats it. You don't have to actually BE a Taer. Thus, 2 ranks in Know:Local(Taer) would qualify a charger character to take Battle Jump at 1st level. BJ MUST be taken at 1st level though, as dictated by the rules for Regional feats.

That was the case until the release of the Player's Guide to Faerun, which contains the updated rules on character regions. On page 9 it lists the available regions for which you can select Knowledge: Local, Icerim Mountains (the updated Taer region) not being among them. There is no Knowledge: Local (Taer), there is no Knowledge: Local (Icerim Mountains), and there is no way for a non-Taer to take Battle Jump.

Keld Denar
2008-12-15, 03:34 PM
That was the case until the release of the Player's Guide to Faerun, which contains the updated rules on character regions. On page 9 it lists the available regions for which you can select Knowledge: Local, Icerim Mountains (the updated Taer region) not being among them. There is no Knowledge: Local (Taer), there is no Knowledge: Local (Icerim Mountains), and there is no way for a non-Taer to take Battle Jump.

But Battle Jump doesn't say you have to be a Taer, read it. Its only requirement is being from the region. There are humans and 1/2 orcs there, and one of them could take the feat as well.

So, while you are right, you are also wrong. You can take it as a non-Taer, but you can't qualify for it as a non-Icerim character.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-12-15, 04:34 PM
And maneuvers don't require concentration (well, some do, but not this one). What's your point?


During a Frenzy, the Frenzied Berzerker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability

Iron Heart Surge is not 'attacking to the best of her ability'. In fact, Iron Heart Surge being used to knock her out of Frenzy will be NERFING her ability to attack her opponents, thus the FB is unable to do so during Frenzy.

Sinfire Titan
2008-12-16, 03:45 AM
Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute.
Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berserker.
Play something with good Str and season to taste.

I'd like to point out that this is a misconception. This is a standard Charger build, not the Ubercharger. A lot of people refer to a Charger Build as the Ubercharger, but the two are in fact different entities.

How to tell the difference:

Charger builds are only capable of about 400 damage/round, while the Ubercharger is easily capable of damage around 46,221 (estimate from threads discussing the build).

Charger builds usually have a fall-back option when they can't move (usually just Rage). Ubercharger can't do anywhere near what it should be doing if it can't charge.


Unfortunately, both of the Ubercharger threads have been lost to the Gleemax Archives. Neither of them can be viewed (at least not on my end), and thus I can't post the full build myself. I assure you that the Ubercharger is not meant to be played as a PC.

monty
2008-12-16, 02:33 PM
Charger builds are only capable of about 400 damage/round

You say that like it's a bad thing.