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View Full Version : CHALLENGE: Create a Solar racial progression Class.



Kizara
2008-12-15, 12:42 PM
As the title says, I am in need of a racial progression class for a solar for my next campaign.

Backstory:

The fluff is that the character was a solar in service of Hieronious who was overly prideful, zealous, spirited and often troublesome to the ruling council. She had a childhood friend who was an astral deva. Said deva at one point voluntarily underwent an Atonement to become LE as a heroic sacrifice in order to save the lives of many captured paladins. Regardless, she still fell from grace and commited many atrocities under her new alignment.

My character managed to win her back by virtue of her bravery and previous close friendship, and in bringing her to face the council of archons had to try to convince them to allow her to repent and be allowed back into their ranks.
She managed to convince them, but at a price: She was given a quest on the mortal realm, stripped of her power and forced to atone for her friend's misdeeds by doing good in said realm (it also serves to teach her some humilty, something desperately needed). If she succeeds and rises again to her former status, she can reclaim her place with more power then ever.

So, the class, some stipulations:

-22 level progression, in keeping with its HD.
-Ignore LA. Only concern yourself with the Racial HD. This isn't supposed to be balanced with a normal character, its a special thing for this campaign only.
-I want functional wings before level 8, at most. Preferably much sooner.
-The clerical casting can simply be +1CL/level, which would give level 22 casting at 22 HD, but that's fine.
-All abilities, ability score modifers, nat armor, etc must be included.
-Don't concern yourself with the skill points, as she will be re-learning them for the most part (knowledges being the exception). I'm not sure about the feats ethier, so include them in the progression if possible.
-Try to give a natural, logical progression of gaining abilities that simulates regaining her former glory.


If it matters, it will be a gestalt character with 1WA's Rebalanced Paladin on the other side.

Also, her friend may be joining her if I know my DM, so a astral deva class would be useful as well (again, no LA).

Finally, if anyone wants to give me character build ideas they are welcome to, but such is not the main purpose of this thread.

EDIT: Also, I really need some good name ideas. Right now I have in my mind "Celeste" for her name and "Angela" for her friend's, but I shouldn't have to explain to you how incredibly lame those names are for these characters. Celeste the Celestial and Angela the Angel? Zzzz.... help please.

bosssmiley
2008-12-15, 04:22 PM
I'd suggest starting with the 20 level True Fiend progression from Tome of Fiends (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=28828).

Refluff it with angelic (rather than infernal-themes) abilities, SLA spheres and feats, then giving it +1 cleric casting progression/lvl to boot. Take wings and suchlike as [Angelic] feats when they come onstream at about level 6. Continue the progression for a couple of levels into Epic to get full bore Solar gorgonzola.

Just looking at the Solar as written, by rights the thing should form both sides of a gestalt progression in itself. One side would be a straight cleric build, the other side the 20 outsider HD (full BAB, all Good saves) plus accompanying deluxe suite of racial abilities (SLAs, resistances, immunities, special qualities, etc.).

(The Angels and Eladrin are woefully under-CRed for their range of abilities)

As for a name - here's a partial list (http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/angels.htm) including their spheres of interest. Vohamanal, angel of Optimism, Tahariel, angel of Purification, and Remliel, angel of Awakening all seem fitting.

Starscream
2008-12-15, 04:52 PM
I have to agree with bosssmiley on Solar taking up both sides of the gestalt progression. We're talking a creature who will eventually end up with a total of +78 to its ability scores, a host of spell like abilities (on top of the cleric spells), +21 natural armor, DR, SR and energy immunities.

There's a reason things like this were never intended to be PCs. It's like playing the tarrasque. An optimized gestalt character might approach this level of power by 22 HD, but even then its a stretch.

Kizara
2008-12-15, 08:08 PM
I'd suggest starting with the 20 level True Fiend progression from Tome of Fiends (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=28828).

Refluff it with angelic (rather than infernal-themes) abilities, SLA spheres and feats, then giving it +1 cleric casting progression/lvl to boot. Take wings and suchlike as [Angelic] feats when they come onstream at about level 6. Continue the progression for a couple of levels into Epic to get full bore Solar gorgonzola.

Just looking at the Solar as written, by rights the thing should form both sides of a gestalt progression in itself. One side would be a straight cleric build, the other side the 20 outsider HD (full BAB, all Good saves) plus accompanying deluxe suite of racial abilities (SLAs, resistances, immunities, special qualities, etc.).

(The Angels and Eladrin are woefully under-CRed for their range of abilities)

As for a name - here's a partial list (http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/angels.htm) including their spheres of interest. Vohamanal, angel of Optimism, Tahariel, angel of Purification, and Remliel, angel of Awakening all seem fitting.

Some good points, and thanks for the names.

Thing is, I wanted her to be more powerful for her ordeal/tempering in the mortal lands when she regained her celestial glory, and I felt paladin levels were a good way to do that since all she would be getting out of them would be some auras, boosted saves, a special mount and more smiting.

Nonetheless, thanks for your input and links.

Kyace
2008-12-15, 11:30 PM
Sounds like an interesting character. Interesting that an angel can still display vices like pride, but I suppose that's well in line with Judeo-Christian mythology that Solars are based on. I would third the line of thought that a Solar is well worth both sides of a gestalt balance wise but I suppose that's up to your DM. Have fun with your army of animated objects. Simply being a PC Solar is hugely more powerful than the CR 23 one in the basic entry: You aren't build on 10's and 11's. You can boost your insane AC with armor and you still cast as an cleric.

A solar begins as a medium sized outsider, with the Good subtype (and the Extraplanar subtype if not on their native plane, as normal).

Unless stated below, assume class features are as Solar's entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) when gained.
Hit Die: d8; Skill Points 8 + Int, Adjusting backwards as Int improves in this class
{table=head]Level|BAB|Base Saves|Class Features|Casts as:
1st|+1|+2|Medium Size, Good Subtype, +2 Charisma, Low-Light Vision, Darkvision, 50' Speed|None
2nd|+2|+3|+3 Natural Armor, Resistance Acid 10 and Cold 10|Cleric 1
3rd|+3|+3|Minor Spell-Likes 1/day|Cleric 2
4th|+4|+4|+2 Str, +2 Wis, Tongues, +5 Natural Armor|Cleric 3
5th|+5|+4|+4 Natural Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, Fly 50' (Poor)|Cleric 4
6th|+6/+1|+5|Minor Spell-Likes 3/day, DR 5/Magic or Evil|Cleric 5
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Change Shape 3/day|Cleric 6
8th|+8/+3|+6|+7 Natural Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, Protective Aura (Magic Circle as Angel Subtype)|Cleric 7
9th|+9/+4|+6|Minor Spell-Likes At Will, Spell-Likes 1/day|Cleric 8
10th|+10/+5|+7|+2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Fly 100' (Average), Resistance Electricity 10 and Fire 10|Cleric 9
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+10 Natural Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, Protective Aura (Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, as Angel Subtype)|Cleric 10
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|Minor Spell-Likes Always, Spell-Likes 3/day, Immunity Acid, Cold, Angel Subtype|Cleric 10
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, DR 10/Magic and Evil, Spell Resistance|Cleric 11
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+13 Natural Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, Slam 1d10|Cleric 12
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|Spell-Likes At Will, Major Spell-Likes 1/day, Fly 150' (Good)|Cleric 13
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Cha|Cleric 14
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+16 Natural Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, Change Shape At Will|Cleric 15
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|Major Spell-Likes 3/day or 1/day|Cleric 16
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Cha|Cleric 17
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+19 Natural Armor, +2 Str, +2 Int, Large Size, Slam 2d8|Cleric 18
21st|+21/+16/+11/+6|+12|DR 15/Epic and Evil, +2 Wis, +2 Cha|Cleric 19
22nd|+22/+17/+12/+7|+13|+21 Natural Armor, +4 Str, Regeneration 15|Cleric 20[/table]

Minor Spell-Likes: At third level, a solar may use the following spell-likes once a day: detect evil, detect snares and pits, discern lies, see invisibility. The caster level equals the solar's cleric caster level, the DCs are based on charisma. At sixth level, they may use these powers three times a day. At ninth, at will. At twelfth, they are always active and reactiving them is a free action. At fifteenth, they add True Seeing to this list.

Spell-Likes: At ninth level, a solar may use the following spell-likes once a day: aid, animate objects, commune, continual flame, dimensional anchor, greater dispel magic, holy smite, invisibility (self only), lesser restoration, remove curse, remove disease, remove fear, resist energy, summon monster V, speak with dead, waves of fatigue. The caster level equals the solar's cleric caster level, the DCs are based on charisma. At twelfth level, they may use these powers three times a day and replace summon monster V with summon monster VI. At fifteenth, at will and replace summon monster VI with VII. At eighteenth, they add Imprisonment to this list.

Spell Resistance: Beginning at thirteenth level, a solar has spell resistance equal to 10 + Class level.

Major Spell-Likes: At fifteenth level, a solar may use the following spell-likes once a day: blade barrier, earthquake, heal, mass charm monster, permanency, resurrection, waves of exhaustion. The caster level equals the solar's cleric caster level, the DCs are based on charisma. At eighteenth level, they may use the above spell-likes three times a day and may use the following spell-likes once a day: greater restoration, power word blind, power word kill, power word stun, prismatic spray, wish.

Kizara
2008-12-15, 11:58 PM
Thank you VERY much, but some nitpicks:

1) Large at 20th? Earlier would be nice.

2) Solar have d8 HD, why is this lower?

3) Very well done with the spell-likes progression. Great way to handle it.

4) Needs to have earlier regen before the final 15 at 22.


Again, thank you so much. You've given me the tools to realize this concept.:biggrin:

Kyace
2008-12-16, 12:09 AM
Bah, it should be d8. I considered throwing in Regen 5/Magic or Evil at about level 13ish, but at that point everything that poses a threat will have be able to overcome magic DR and evil weapons/spells are too rare to make it just Regen 5/Evil.

Edit: How'd you feel about the swapping of Fly 150 (Good) and Large Size?

Kizara
2008-12-16, 01:11 AM
Bah, it should be d8. I considered throwing in Regen 5/Magic or Evil at about level 13ish, but at that point everything that poses a threat will have be able to overcome magic DR and evil weapons/spells are too rare to make it just Regen 5/Evil.

Edit: How'd you feel about the swapping of Fly 150 (Good) and Large Size?

Badly, I love my flight. Besides, large size is hardly a big buff, its not even wroth a LA according to savage species. Don't see why you can't give it mid-levelsish balance-wise, since its almost entirely flavor. The weapon size increase is completely meaningless at that level.

Consider the power-level of the character, giving regen 5/evil even at mid-levels isn't going to screw anything.

Kyace
2008-12-16, 01:35 AM
A) Savage Species tends to be on the strong side.
B) Savage Species puts Large at ECL 19 for the Deva Monster Class.
C) The weapon size increase is rather weak. The increased reach and +4 to grapple isn't. :P
D) Regen 5/Evil basically makes you unkillable at mid-level. They'd have to deal your HP in nonlethal then coup de grace you with an evil weapon to have a chance. Any moderately advanced cleric spellcaster will be able to top off HP between fights. The DR/Magic and Evil simulates that resistance quite well.

On the off chance you misunderstood, I meant trade 150' (good) at level 15 for 100' (average) and large then get 150' (good) at level 20, since you got 100' (average) at level 10.

Kizara
2008-12-16, 02:26 AM
A) Savage Species tends to be on the strong side.
B) Savage Species puts Large at ECL 19 for the Deva Monster Class.
C) The weapon size increase is rather weak. The increased reach and +4 to grapple isn't. :P
D) Regen 5/Evil basically makes you unkillable at mid-level. They'd have to deal your HP in nonlethal then coup de grace you with an evil weapon to have a chance. Any moderately advanced cleric spellcaster will be able to top off HP between fights. The DR/Magic and Evil simulates that resistance quite well.

On the off chance you misunderstood, I meant trade 150' (good) at level 15 for 100' (average) and large then get 150' (good) at level 20, since you got 100' (average) at level 10.

You of course realize that I'm simply going to edit this to what I want, anyways, right? :P

You have to remember that my primary goal here is to simulate her assent, not balance the progression. I mean, it semi-approaches balance with the both sides at once thing, but that was never my actual intention.

And that was actually wrose then what I thought, since it delays the second flight progression as well. I really, really like natural flight, I just think its extremely cool.

And yes, +4 to grapple on a character like this at level 13 is irrelivant. I am going to have FoM up in any fight anyways, who cares? Besides that, full BAB, amazing strength, cleric buffs, etc. Increased reach is relivent, but is not game breaking at the level we are talking. And again, its not supposed to be balanced really. A nod towards balance while realizing the concept.

It makes you unkillable by non-evil weapons, you know how easy that is to get?
1) Weapon wielded by a naturally evil creature (vast majority of what would actually fight her).
2) Spell with Curse Weapon cast on it. (or whatever the evil version of bless weapon is; if there isn't one my DM will certinally homebrew it).
3) Naturally evil weapon. Lifestealer axe for instance.

4) Compare it planetar, that gets regen 10 at 14 HD. Thematically, its also just really cool to be able to regenerate like that. Honestly, I have heal at this level, the regen is a decent ability but its mostly flavor.

Kyace
2008-12-16, 03:09 AM
1) Only natural weapons of creatures with the Evil subtype and some sort of DR X/Magic bypass it naturally, merely being of the evil alignment isn't enough.
2) Align Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alignWeapon.htm)is the spell you're thinking of.
3) Nothing snappy to say here. :P
4) Troll gets a fairly easily bypassable regen at ECL 11 is what I used for base.

Eh, just quote the table, edit it however you want, remove the quote tags, preview and print. Not like I even know your DM. I was mostly just trying to approach balance as the game becomes unfun when anything that the DM throws at you that challenges you wipes the floor with the other teammates.

Give yourself whatever at whatever level, I'm quite impotent. *snickers sophomorically*

After years, it's hard to turn off the part of your brain that tries to balance things. :P Well I'm hitting the hay. Have fun in your game.

Blood_Lord
2008-12-16, 03:42 AM
After years, it's hard to turn off the part of your brain that tries to balance things. :P Well I'm hitting the hay. Have fun in your game.

There is nothing balancing about you trying to put off large size. Psychic Warriors spend their time Large or even Huge half the time. Clerics the same.

It's really easy to get large size, and by the way:

"Savage Species is kind of strong."?

Savage species is strong because of the Anthro animals, and other templates which can be used to advantage.

An Astral Deva by definition loses to a level 19 character every time. So the Astral Deva progression at ECL 19 is weak and useless. That's how LA works.

Kizara
2008-12-16, 08:56 AM
Kyace, remember that the character won't be grossly overshadowing the other PCs, as they will have similar special backstories and classes. Alternately, maybe they will get a moderate-LA template for free, or can take or use overpowered stuff that we normally ban (DMM for instance).


On this topic though, could you please make me up a 12 level astral deva class? It'll be far simplier. :)