PDA

View Full Version : (2e D&D) Wish help



Shpadoinkle
2008-12-15, 09:40 PM
As I've saiid in a couple other threads, I'm playing a centaur Giant Killer (ranger kit) in a game my brother-in-law is running. Right now he's 9th level, and the 'group' (myself and my sister) just got our hands on a Ring of Three Wishes. As my character was one of the three to locate it, it's pretty much a given that he'll receive one of them.

So far, what I've come up with is wishing for the ability to cast spells as a druid of my level. What I need is a way to word this so that I don't get less than I intended from it. I'm thinking "I wish to be able to cast spells as though I had been a druid my whole life." What I'm afraid of is that this might freeze his 'druid' spellcasting at 9th level- even when I advance to ranger level 10, I'll still cast spells as a 9th level druid, because I didn't specify that I want my spellcasting abilities to advance with me. When I proposed this to the DM, he warned me to be very careful about the way I word it, because if it's worded poorly, he might just give me the spells per day of a druid, with my regular ranger spell list, or he might give me the spells per day of a druid, but I can only cast from the Plant and Animal spheres, etc.

So I'm looking for a fairly foolproof, but not hugely longwinded way of wording this wish. Help is appreciated.

Matthew
2008-12-15, 09:49 PM
"I wish to be able to cast spells as though I had been a druid my whole life."

More likely with a wording like that he will turn you into a druid. In general, if you wish for something greedy, you can expect the game master to try and interpret the wording so that the benefit is minor. Wishes are usually best saved for when things go completely wrong, in my opinion.

Dervag
2008-12-15, 09:50 PM
"I wish to gain, and to always have, the spellcasting power of a druid of proficiency equal to my own proficiency as a ranger at that time."

How's that?
_______

That said, the previous poster is right. Such a powerful wish really should be creatively interpreted by the DM to limit your powers. Granting full druid spell progression to a 2e ranger greatly increases his powers.

Shpadoinkle
2008-12-15, 09:57 PM
I meant to mention, but I forgot, that my DM endorsed this wish as one he like and would be willing to grant, should I not screw up the wording.

Matthew
2008-12-15, 10:03 PM
You could try:

"I wish to have the spell casting ability of a druid of a power equal to my own."

But you should be aware that a deity (or some power) will have to endorse and continue to approve, as well as supply, your spell casting ability, and that a successful dispel magic, or the equivalent, may have the potential to undo the wish, should you be unlucky enough to be the subject of one, and depending how the game master decides to handle things.

[edit]
He could, of course, interpret "equal to my own" to mean "none". More thinking required!

Flickerdart
2008-12-15, 10:21 PM
"I wish I had a Druid's full spellcasting powers in addition to my Ranger abilities, that increased in power along with me as they would have had I become a Druid instead of a Ranger from the beginning."

That should cover everything. Scaling, proper spells per day and levels, etc.

Ninetail
2008-12-15, 10:29 PM
"I wish that I could cast druidic spells exactly as I would if I were a druid."

Technically, that conditional should prevent the "okay, you're a druid now" interpretation, but arguing semantics is not necessarily the best course, should things go that way.

There's also the "Well, you could cast druidic spells..." interpretation, but hey... If your GM's going to hose you, he's going to hose you. Keep things simple, so that you don't contribute to your hosing.

I know that personally, I only outright try to twist wishes when they're presented in lawyer-speak. (Or when it makes sense for the wishgranter, of course. Don't trust efreet.)

Matthew
2008-12-15, 10:32 PM
"I wish I had...

Past tense may be a bad idea. :smallbiggrin:

Shpadoinkle
2008-12-15, 10:32 PM
"I wish I had a Druid's full spellcasting powers in addition to my Ranger abilities, that increased in power along with me as they would have had I become a Druid instead of a Ranger from the beginning."

That should cover everything. Scaling, proper spells per day and levels, etc.

That sounds pretty good, I think I'll be using that. Thank you.

BrainFreeze
2008-12-15, 10:37 PM
Watch out, you may end up with the Druid's class flaws also and not be able to use metal.

Douglas
2008-12-15, 10:48 PM
"I wish that from this moment on, without this wish changing anything else, I will always have the full spellcasting powers I would have if I had always been a Druid instead of a ranger but had otherwise experienced all the same things, in addition to the abilities I would have if I had never made this wish."

Of course, ranger and druid probably have different XP-to-level charts in 2e and my version of the wish does the equivalence by experience points, but I'm not sure how to word "same level" in character and it seems close enough to your intent.

Ninetail
2008-12-15, 11:32 PM
"I wish that from this moment on, without this wish changing anything else, I will always have the full spellcasting powers I would have if I had always been a Druid instead of a ranger but had otherwise experienced all the same things, in addition to the abilities I would have if I had never made this wish."


See, that's the sort of wish I'd twist all to hell, myself. Way too many clauses in there.

Flickerdart
2008-12-15, 11:43 PM
If your friends are willing to share a wish, this could get so much easier.
1. I wish that the party knew the contents of the legendary Player's Handbook tome.
2. I wish for the spellcasting of a Druid of my character level that will increase on a level by level basis every time I level up.

Douglas
2008-12-15, 11:48 PM
See, that's the sort of wish I'd twist all to hell, myself. Way too many clauses in there.
And how, exactly, would you twist it? I honestly don't see any possible way to do so without ignoring at least one part of it.

Mark Hall
2008-12-16, 01:13 AM
"I wish to gain the favor of X, such that I may cast spells as one of [his/her] priests, while remaining one of [his/her] rangers."

It's not quite a wish, but a call for attention.

(Actually reminds me of a story from Palladium Fantasy's "Dragons and Gods". A guy was going to a temple of the Dragonwright cult, just before a battle, and couldn't think which deity he wished to dedicate himself to, so he just received a generic, pantheonic, blessing. Then, when his entire army was getting slaughtered, he prayed to Kym-nark-mar to save him, and he would then, in return, serve Kym-nark-mar for the rest of his life. He bargained with the God, instead of giving himself away, and got to live while everyone else died. With that in mind, you might talk to your DM about simply offering the wish to your nature deity of choice, and allowing him/her to reward you as she wishes. Sacrifice is a powerful magic, after all.)

Grail
2008-12-16, 01:20 AM
"I wish I had a cookie"

"Oh, and that I could....., damn too late!"

BobVosh
2008-12-16, 01:42 AM
And how, exactly, would you twist it? I honestly don't see any possible way to do so without ignoring at least one part of it.

Easy.


"I wish that from this moment on, without this wish changing anything else, I will always have the full spellcasting powers I would have if I had always been a Druid instead of a ranger but had otherwise experienced all the same things, in addition to the abilities I would have if I had never made this wish."

Of course, ranger and druid probably have different XP-to-level charts in 2e and my version of the wish does the equivalence by experience points, but I'm not sure how to word "same level" in character and it seems close enough to your intent.

You have them, but you are incapable of using them. To use them you would cause something else to have changed, indirectly admittably, by said wish.

Been better to have done this line as "without this wish changing anything else about myself, without my express permission, including any mental ones issued by myself, when not mind controlled or otherwise incapable of making decisions on my own, excluding such times as it would benefit me by my current mindframe updated with any relevant knowledge to the situation."

Now we are getting ridiculous. Better to pray on DM's lazyness.
"I wish I had the spellcasting as per a druid companion, if one had been adventuring with me my whole life, sharing all expariences."
Now they use different exp charts, different ways to get bonus exp (basing this on 1st ed, but I think 2nd ed did the "you get exp for objects found and/or having a stat of 16+ in so forth") So he WOULD be different level than you...but what DM is going to track that?

This one is flawed in a way if I spent a bit more time I'm sure I could twist it, but if the DM is agreeing to do this, he shouldn't screw that one over too much.

TMZ_Cinoros
2008-12-16, 01:55 AM
"I wish I had a cookie"

"Oh, and that I could....., damn too late!"

You get a cookie... IN YOUR HEART! AND THEN YOU DIE!

Personally, I am way too paranoid to do wishes in 2nd edition. One of the people in our group started up the joke that every Wish in 2nd edition ends in "AND THEN YOU DIE!" I always found it amusing in a sardonic way that the 2E DMG actively encourages the DM to screw over players. I guess its just part of the era, along with insta-kill unavoidable traps (monofiliament wire unexpectedly lopping off body parts, rooms suddenly locking and filling up with acid, ect.) Of course, not all DMs are like that. But it makes for an amusing generalization.

Anyway, good luck with your wish! Hopefully the entire "druid for my whole life" thing isn't interpreted to mean that you are druid who has lived out your WHOLE life, and is seconds away from dying of old age.

BobVosh
2008-12-16, 01:59 AM
You get a cookie... IN YOUR HEART! AND THEN YOU DIE!

Personally, I am way too paranoid to do wishes in 2nd edition. One of the people in our group started up the joke that every Wish in 2nd edition ends in "AND THEN YOU DIE!" I always found it amusing in a sardonic way that the 2E DMG actively encourages the DM to screw over players. I guess its just part of the era, along with insta-kill unavoidable traps (monofiliament wire unexpectedly lopping off body parts, rooms suddenly locking and filling up with acid, ect.) Of course, not all DMs are like that. But it makes for an amusing generalization.

Anyway, good luck with your wish! Hopefully the entire "druid for my whole life" thing isn't interpreted to mean that you are druid who has lived out your WHOLE life, and is seconds away from dying of old age.

Your second edition game reminds me of paranoia

Khanderas
2008-12-16, 02:13 AM
I wish to gain the spellcasting power, spellselection and spelloptions of a druid of the same power as my ranger is now all this will be without impediments to my development as a ranger.

Note the gain, otherwise he just puts you as multiclass druid 5 / ranger 5
Spellselection - otherwise you get one druidspell per level and cannot learn any other
Spelloptions - whatever counts as feats in 2nd ed. I know nothing of that really.
Now and will be - obviously.
and the last part to avoid getting a freeze on ranger level gain, xp blocking etc etc

The DM is onboard with this, otherwise this would be a suicidal thing to ask for. Angry druids, heavy curses, backlash on using the druid spells, plain Wish-fail, rock fall you die etc.
No mention of the druidic language if you feel you need to add that in yourself. Also I am unsure if Druidic spells includes shapeshifting. if you feel that is essential don't forget to include that.

Shpadoinkle
2008-12-16, 03:23 AM
I wish to gain the spellcasting power, spellselection and spelloptions of a druid of the same power as my ranger is now all this will be without impediments to my development as a ranger.

Note the gain, otherwise he just puts you as multiclass druid 5 / ranger 5
Spellselection - otherwise you get one druidspell per level and cannot learn any other
Spelloptions - whatever counts as feats in 2nd ed. I know nothing of that really.
Now and will be - obviously.
and the last part to avoid getting a freeze on ranger level gain, xp blocking etc etc

The DM is onboard with this, otherwise this would be a suicidal thing to ask for. Angry druids, heavy curses, backlash on using the druid spells, plain Wish-fail, rock fall you die etc.
No mention of the druidic language if you feel you need to add that in yourself. Also I am unsure if Druidic spells includes shapeshifting. if you feel that is essential don't forget to include that.

Heh. I was actually considering being a multiclass druid/ranger at first (DM would have allowed it), but decided against it for some reason I can't for the life of me remember now. I retrospect, I wish I had gone for it, since because of the way experience works in 2e, I'd be about a ranger 8/ druid 8 by now. Ah well.

Another option I've come up with is wishing for the ability to cast Magic Missile of Lightning Bolt at will.

Kurald Galain
2008-12-16, 04:36 AM
I meant to mention, but I forgot, that my DM endorsed this wish as one he like and would be willing to grant, should I not screw up the wording.

It strikes me that either (1) your DM is out to be friendly, in which case he'll interpret your wording in a favorable way and it doesn't matter what you say, or (2) your DM is out to screw you, in which case he'll twist your wording no matter what, and again it doesn't matter what you say.

Shpadoinkle
2008-12-16, 04:43 AM
It strikes me that either (1) your DM is out to be friendly, in which case he'll interpret your wording in a favorable way and it doesn't matter what you say, or (2) your DM is out to screw you, in which case he'll twist your wording no matter what, and again it doesn't matter what you say.

He's a fair DM, he wouldn't just arbitratily decide to screw me over (or let me get away with murder) regardless of anything else. Everything he's done so far has made me fairly confident that it WILL be decided by how I word the wish.

Dervag
2008-12-16, 05:12 AM
But he won't creatively misinterpret the wish so as to cause you the maximum possible suffering?

"I wish I had a cookie" -> "A cookie materializes in your heart and you die" is an example of creative misinterpretation. Not even a complete idiot would think that is what the wisher meant. In this case, the wish-granting being or force isn't actually granting a wish at all. They've just already resolved to kill the wisher using a horrible twisted version of whatever their greatest desire is.

Creative misinterpretation is perhaps better referred to as "making %(&# up."

If your DM is into creative misinterpretation of wishes, then the best wish you can make is "I wish to be completely unaffected by this wish." Though there's probably a way to screw with that too.

Premier
2008-12-16, 05:37 AM
If I were the GM in question (I'm not), I'd be silently laughing all over this thread.

It shows exactly how the 'Wish arms race' evolved, with players coming up with more and more elaborate and fanciful phrasings, which then just prompto DMs to screw up their wishes for fun.

Seriously, if I were you?

"I wish to have the ability to cast druidic spells."

That's all. The DM - especially considering that he has already OK-ed the idea OOC - will appreciate that you do not indulge in ridiculously baroque phrasings, and just grant it in goodwill. Every single extra word you add to that will increase his irritation, and thus the likelyhood that the wish will bite you in the arse.

And don't be grabby. The whole "I insist that I get the number of spells appropriate for my level" thing just comes across as getting greedy and trying to ensure that you get what you're "entitled to", whereas in fact you don't have any "entitlements" with Wishes at all. Just let the DM decide whether to give you druidic casting ability at your ranger level, or two levels below that, or whatever he might feel appropriate. After all, if he thinks getting it at your ranger level is too powerful, then he WILL nerf the wish in some manner, anyway.

hamlet
2008-12-16, 08:29 AM
Personally, I am way too paranoid to do wishes in 2nd edition. One of the people in our group started up the joke that every Wish in 2nd edition ends in "AND THEN YOU DIE!" I always found it amusing in a sardonic way that the 2E DMG actively encourages the DM to screw over players. I guess its just part of the era, along with insta-kill unavoidable traps (monofiliament wire unexpectedly lopping off body parts, rooms suddenly locking and filling up with acid, ect.) Of course, not all DMs are like that. But it makes for an amusing generalization.

.

Neither the DMG nor the PHB say any such thing.

The spell merely states that the wish will most likely be filled literally and intimates that selfish wishes will be filled literally in such a way that their benefit will be negated or minimal.

It SPECIFICALLY states that a wish used for unselfish purposes (such as escape or the aid of another) will not cause the wisher any problems.

TMZ_Cinoros
2008-12-16, 03:23 PM
Note: My observations about 2nd edition have NOTHING to do with my actual play experience. They have more to do with the kinds of things my DM saw "back in the day" when 2nd edition was the norm, as well as the general tone of the books. My GM actually has a system for powerful spells like Wish, where he rolls randomly to determine which God grants the wish, and what mood the God is in (he has a reaction roll system for all NPCs/Gods where he rolls 2d12, one die for humor, and one die for friendliness). This makes more sense in context of his games, where Clerics are able to pray to a god on a regular basis and get direct messages from the god (which can be incredibly cryptic, silence, a long monologue, divine intervention, or anything in between, depending on the reaction roll). So, sometimes the god will grant the spirit of the wish (and possibly more), and sometimes the god will just screw over the wisher. Anyways...


Neither the DMG nor the PHB say any such thing.

The spell merely states that the wish will most likely be filled literally and intimates that selfish wishes will be filled literally in such a way that their benefit will be negated or minimal.

It SPECIFICALLY states that a wish used for unselfish purposes (such as escape or the aid of another) will not cause the wisher any problems.

It is much more in the tone of what is stated. Here is the text of Wish:


The wish spell is a more potent version of a limited wish. If it is used to alter reality with respect to damage sustained by a party, to bring a dead creature to life, or to escape from a difficult situation by lifting the spellcaster (and his party) from one place to another, it will not cause the wizard any disability. Other forms of wishes, however, cause the spellcaster to weaken (-3 on Strength) and require 2d4 days of bed rest due to the stresses the wish places upon time, space, and his body. Regardless of what is wished for, the exact terminology of the wish spell is likely to be carried out. Casting a wish spell ages the caster five years.
Discretionary power of the DM is necessary in order to maintain game balance. For example, wishing another creature dead is grossly unfair; the DM might well advance the spellcaster to a future period in which the creature is no longer alive, effectively putting the wishing character out of the campaign.

The Wish spell actively encourages the DM to subvert the spell in a perverse manner if the wish would "upset game balance," rather than just saying "no" to the spell. Also note that the spell says nothing about selfish or unselfish acts. It only has a short list of effects that will not will not cause the wizard any disability.

Ultimately, it boils down to what Kurald Galain and Dervag stated. Either the DM will be favorable and grant the spirit of the wish, or the DM will do anything he can to creatively misinterpret the wish.

As for my comments about the DMG, those had to do more with overall tone, not for wishes. The DMG repeatedly explains in detail how to screw over players who are getting uppity. Rather than, you know, just talking to the player out of game or not granting a request. Things like giving a noble title to the player, but telling the player that his estate is deeply in debt and debt collectors are constantly hounding him and planning to drag him off to debtors' prison. It is a deep part of the overall tone of the game, because that's how Gary Gygax ran his games. The entire idea of nesting portable holes and handy haversacks creating blackholes came from a one-time ruling from a Gygax game where a player was trying to find a creative way to store all his money in a portable fashion.

To make this clear, I am not saying this is a bad thing. Its a part of the overall tone. I find it highly amusing. Individual GMs can ignore that and be benevolent. But it is a major part of the 2E culture nonetheless. 3E and up more or less dropped that tone, though some GMs from 2E kept that mindset of "screw the player in malicious ways", which we ridicule on these boards.

All of this is just an observation, not a value judgment.

Matthew
2008-12-16, 03:40 PM
To be honest, I think you are now creatively misinterpreting the PHB and DMG (not to mention conflating Gygax's AD&D with Cook's AD&D, though to be fair the latter is better understood in the context of the former). There is very little in any of the books about "screwing over the players", though there is quite a bit of advice that is given in an amusing (even adversarial) tone. The passage you are referring to is for newly generated character backgrounds, for instance, and not with reference to titles gained during the course of play, not to mention the caveats that go along with it.

Apparently, wishing another creature dead is "grossly unfair" (I am not sure I agree, it being a ninth level spell that ages the caster), but it is seemingly within the scope of the spell's powers, and a character who words it carefully will not be subject to a "misfire".

Thane of Fife
2008-12-16, 04:15 PM
Apparently, wishing another creature dead is "grossly unfair" (I am not sure I agree, it being a ninth level spell that ages the caster), but it is seemingly within the scope of the spell's powers, and a character who words it carefully will not be subject to a "misfire".

Eh... since it doesn't allow a Saving Throw and has no range limit to it, I'd say that it potentially could indeed be grossly unfair. In general, it might not be, but it would be very easy to abuse - "I wish Villain x was dead!" "I wish the person who hates me the most was dead!" "I wish that the next person who tries to hire an assassin to kill me will die the instant he does so!"

You could do some pretty nasty stuff.


To the OP: The best idea might very well be simply to wish that you become a Druid/Ranger with the same total of XP.

Matthew
2008-12-16, 04:25 PM
Eh... since it doesn't allow a Saving Throw and has no range limit to it, I'd say that it potentially could indeed be grossly unfair. In general, it might not be, but it would be very easy to abuse - "I wish Villain x was dead!" "I wish the person who hates me the most was dead!" "I wish that the next person who tries to hire an assassin to kill me will die the instant he does so!"

You could do some pretty nasty stuff.

Depends on the context; the magician always ages five years when casting the spell (one year per hundred years of life span in limited wish, which I think should probably be errated for wish as well, if you remove level limits), and the risks of magically aging are potentially quite deadly. Even with a constitution of 18, there is that risk. A major villain appropriate for a seventeenth level magician probably has multiple contingencies in place!

In the case of magical wish items, the case is less clear, of course.

pingcode20
2008-12-16, 07:17 PM
Heh. I was actually considering being a multiclass druid/ranger at first (DM would have allowed it), but decided against it for some reason I can't for the life of me remember now. I retrospect, I wish I had gone for it, since because of the way experience works in 2e, I'd be about a ranger 8/ druid 8 by now. Ah well.

Another option I've come up with is wishing for the ability to cast Magic Missile of Lightning Bolt at will.

Wish granted. Easy as that.

Just clear it with your DM first, let him know what you're asking for, then have the character say it without fooling about with Wish Legalese, which invariably backfires. It's a lot more reasonable (you're just fixing a mistake, rather than making a power grab) and your DM would probably be more than happy to oblige.

Have your ranger ponder his life, and his mind would come back to that one nagging mistake he always regretted (not multiclassing as druid), and he wishes "I wish I'd paid more attention to my mentor when he was talking about getting in touch with nature."

Bam, you become a multiclass Ranger/Druid 8. Losing that ranger level would be accounted for because you changed how you grew up slightly, but significantly, meaning that you didn't achieve quite so much martially.

I suppose you could try and convince your DM to throw a bonus in as a result, so you still gain some benefit other than just changing your build. Maybe membership in a druidic circle?

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 07:58 PM
Hire an NPC magic-user to write your wish for you with the assistance of an NPC lawyer. Go to another NPC lawyer and have him look it over. Don't bother asking the DM to write it out. Just say you're satisfied if three of the best experts did the best job possible. Refuse any attempt by the DM to actually have the wish written out in real life or its terms stated in any but the most conversational way.

For example,

"I want to be able to cast Druid spells just like a Druid of my level"

This way the DM can't screw you over unless he decided the three experts all made mistakes. And you can't get any better than that.

Any wish has loopholes. Entire forums have been devoted to the perfect wish. Don't start that.

Also, in 2E wishes are typically of varying rarity. In order from weakest to strongest:

1: The Wish spell
2: Ring of Wishes
3: Artifact that grants wishes
4: Trapped Genie
5: God-granted wishes

That said, we always played that the Wish spell could re-create the effect of any spell level 9 or less. If an effect would be more powerful than a 9th level spell, Wish cannot do it.

A Ring of Wishes is theoreticaly creatable by a high level Magic-User. If he could create the ring, obviously its power is limited to what he could accomplish alone. That means it's basically just a ring that holds three Wish spells. If the Ring of Wishes is more powerful than that, I'd call it an Artifact instead.

Artifacts should have limits too. Probably doubling your personal power by granting the best ability of another class is too much. Wishing for a magic item or wealth is probably cool.

Genies regularly are expected to grant wealth and magic items. It might be able to grant one limited ability (to Read Languages like a Thief or to Inspire Allies like a Bard).

God-granted wishes are all-out whatever the DM is willing to give.

Also, note that in the 1E DMG in the beginning it described using Wishes to raise your stats. It says the Wish spell can be used to raise your stats by 1 pt per Wish, permanently, or 1/10th a point once your stat is 16. Or 18. I forget. And the max is still 25.

Also note that wish spells age you three years. So typically all Elven Magic-Users have straight 25s a couple months after they hit 18th level. Humans, not so much. That is if you're not using racial level limits, in which case the elf can't hit level 18 in Magic-User at all.

It makes sense that an Artifact should be able to grant a 1 pt perm. increase no matter how high your stat is. Genies should be able to grant 2 points maybe, or raise you to 15. Gods might be willing to do 3, or raise you to 18.

This is all from a DM perspective, because it's so difficult to grasp this weird spell.

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 08:04 PM
Another option I've come up with is wishing for the ability to cast Magic Missile of Lightning Bolt at will.

This sounds like an amazing spell. Do want.

Also, if you do go for the lawyerly method, remember that the DM can always just claim to be so confused by your excellently-worded and airtight 15-page text that he misinterpreted it and the underisable wish result happened. No going back now!

Also also, the perverted wishes thing is kind of lame when the wish has no intelligent source. A spell or ring or artifact doesn't KNOW to twist your wish. Which is why a bound genie is kind of a dangerous way to wish, though the rewards are great.

Ninetail
2008-12-17, 06:00 AM
And how, exactly, would you twist it? I honestly don't see any possible way to do so without ignoring at least one part of it.

How? Well, your wish was "I wish that from this moment on, without this wish changing anything else, I will always have the full spellcasting powers I would have if I had always been a Druid instead of a ranger but had otherwise experienced all the same things, in addition to the abilities I would have if I had never made this wish."

The easiest way would be to note that you could not possibly have "otherwise experienced the same things" if you "had always been a Druid instead of a ranger." Therefore, the wish cannot be granted. (It might have shifted you to an alternate prime material plane where the prevailing laws of nature are different enough that you could have experienced those things, but the "without changing anything else" clause probably prevents that.)

Another way would be to speculate as to exactly what "abilities (you) would have if (you) had never made this wish." You could read that as asking the wish to divine the future and grant you all of those abilities. Maybe at some point you get bitten by a werewolf and contract lycanthropy. Congratulations, you're now an NPC with druid and ranger (and werewolf) powers. This is not "changing anything else" because you asked for all the abilities you would have.

hamlet
2008-12-17, 08:37 AM
The Wish spell actively encourages the DM to subvert the spell in a perverse manner if the wish would "upset game balance," rather than just saying "no" to the spell. Also note that the spell says nothing about selfish or unselfish acts. It only has a short list of effects that will not will not cause the wizard any disability.


No, absolutely not.

The spell only states that the Wish is to be interpreted literally according to the words rather than any supposed unspoken intent.

That seems only fair since you should be expected to actually state clearly what it is you are wishing for.

On top of that, it's really not logical to judge the book stating that "2ed wishes were explicitely actively perverted according to the book" based on a host of house rules from your past DM. It'd be a lot like me saying that 3.5ed actively screwed players over because my last DM in that system didn't allow fighters to use exotic weapons.

Mark Hall
2008-12-17, 10:04 AM
My rules for wishes (which I laid out to players):

Wishes granted by items would grant things via the path of least resistance.
Wishes granted by powerful benevolent beings would follow the character's intent as the benevolent being is capable of understanding.
Wishes granted by powerful malicious beings would be twisted as much as possible.
Wishes cast by the caster would follow intent.