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View Full Version : Villain go down the hoooooole [Spell, 3.X]



Rebonack
2008-12-15, 11:32 PM
Knix's Instant Pit
Conjuration [Teleportation]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100'+10' per CL)
Effect: One 10' radius pit 10' deep per two CLs (max 50' at CL 10).
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Ref Negates
SR: No

You point at a target location and make a rising motion with your hand, causing the ground below a foe to suddenly be teleported elsewhere. On a successful Reflex save the target manages to scramble to the edge of the pit before the ground vanishes. On a failure the target tumbles to the bottom and takes fall damage, landing prone.

Once inside the pit the target may climb out. The walls provide a few hand-holds and ledges, though they are rather sparse. Progress can be made out of the pit with a successful DC: 20 climb check.

The spell requires a reasonably flat surface to be cast upon. If the spell's area of effect includes a wall five feet or higher the pit will simply stop at the wall rather than including it. As such, Knix's Instant Pit can not be used to destroy walls. Furthermore, the area teleported away begins at the target point and proceeds downward. Thus it can not be used to remove sections of a ceiling.

Flying creatures or creatures unaffected by gravity are not put in danger by this spell. Nor are creatures that are larger than Huge.

Yay, holes!

I'm pretty sure the spell level is rather accurate. Can't really see it being above four, honestly. For comparison I considered Bands of Steel and good ol' Fireball. BoS is basically a save or lose, save and suck spell. Quite powerful, though it only hits one target. Fireball has better range, deals more damage, still has an effect on a successful save, and like BoS it works just fine on flying monsters. Instant Pit basically puts the target out of the fight and does some damage to boot. But the damage isn't as nasty as Fireball and it doesn't disable the target cripplingly as Bands of Steel.

Yar.

Thoughts on this one, Playgrounders?

EDIT: And now the greater version.

Knix's Greater Instant Pit
Conjuration [Teleportation]
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100'+10' per CL)
Effect: One 20' or four 10' radius pits 10' deep per two CLs (max 100' at CL 20).
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Ref Negates
SR: No

You point at a target location and make a rising motion with your hand, causing the ground below a foe to suddenly be teleported elsewhere. On a successful Reflex save the target manages to leap to the edge of the pit before the ground vanishes, falling prone. On a failure the target tumbles to the bottom and takes fall damage, landing prone.

If the caster so chooses he may create four ten foot radius pits rather than a single twenty foot radius pit.

The walls are perfectly smooth and flat which renders climbing out by normal means all but impossible.

The spell requires a reasonably flat surface to be cast upon. If the spell's area of effect includes a wall five feet or higher the pit will simply stop at the wall rather than including it. As such, Knix's Greater Instant Pit can not be used to destroy walls. Furthermore, the area teleported away begins at the target point and proceeds downward. Thus it can not be used to remove sections of a ceiling.

Flying creatures or creatures unaffected by gravity are not put in danger by this spell. A twenty foot radius pit can capture even Colossal creatures though ten foot radius pits can not capture creatures that are larger than Huge.

Bam!

Here's the greater version.

I'm not sure if this one should be sixth or seventh level, though. Thoughts?

SilentNight
2008-12-16, 12:00 AM
I actually really like this one. Reminds me of a campaign I once played in. (Long, ridiculous story) Seems balanced, good job.

Rebonack
2008-12-16, 12:35 AM
Ha! Glad you approve!

Just remember to cast it on the Big Bad when he's in the middle of his villain speech for extra hilarity.

starwoof
2008-12-16, 12:46 AM
My sorceror just gained another 3rd level spell known, I think I'm going to ask if I can take this. The rest of the group is going to hate me, but its really not my fault that they fell in a 10' hole and died 2 sessions ago.:smalltongue:

Oh yeah. I am going to get some use from this spell.

SurlySeraph
2008-12-16, 01:25 AM
I'm amazed that this spell hasn't been made before. Looks good to me.

Rebonack
2008-12-16, 10:38 AM
Woo for feedback. Glad everyone seems to think that it's balanced for its level. I'll have a higher level Greater version of the spell later on today.

Lappy9000
2008-12-16, 10:41 AM
Woooo! Semi-obscure Tiny Tunes reference!

Nice spell, too!

Fan
2008-12-16, 10:44 AM
I'm going to pair this with sculpt spell for the win.
10 Ft! Bah! Its now 40Ft!

Fri
2008-12-16, 11:32 AM
Ha. I like this spell. But honestly, what attracted me to this thread at the first place was the tiny toon reference. Heh, for some reason it's one of my best remembered episode.

Haven
2008-12-16, 11:45 AM
Oh man, the reference grabbed me but I couldn't remember where it was from. Awesome.


Flying creatures or creatures unaffected by gravity are not put in danger by this spell. Nor are creatures that are larger than Huge.[/i][/QUOTE]

Hee. This reminds me of the comic "Adventurers!", where the villain tries to use a trap door on someone who can fly; he pushes the button and the guy's still just standing in front of him, looking unamused.

Anyway, yeah, third level sounds about right. The greater version should cancel out flight. There should also be a variation that creates an instant spike-filled pit. :smallbiggrin:

I presume this can be cast without a target, to just create an instant pit?

potatocubed
2008-12-16, 11:47 AM
Much as I like it, two things spring to mind:

1. Where does all that ground go, if it's teleported? Somewhere, there's a growing pile of dirt, dungeon floor, and confused bulettes just waiting for an adventuring party...

(This isn't an objection, just something I find humourous.)

2. The main use I can see for this spell isn't villain-smiting, it's hole-digging. A few scrolls (or a wand) of this and you can just drill through dungeon levels. Or cut a path up through dungeon levels, if the GM lets you target the ceiling. Or destroy supporting pillars. Or walls.

On the other hand you can do all that sort of thing with stone shape, too, which is also 3rd level, but stone shape is not (officially) a combat spell and only works on stone. And I think it might have a smaller affected volume.

I don't know what that means in terms of spell level, but it might be worth thinking about.

Glooble Glistencrist
2008-12-16, 01:40 PM
For some reason I want bards to be able to cast this. I feel like there's a lot of comic potential there.

Lappy9000
2008-12-16, 03:59 PM
For some reason I want bards to be able to cast this. I feel like there's a lot of comic potential there.
Oh goodness, yes!

Rebonack
2008-12-16, 04:05 PM
Much as I like it, two things spring to mind:

1. Where does all that ground go, if it's teleported? Somewhere, there's a growing pile of dirt, dungeon floor, and confused bulettes just waiting for an adventuring party...

(This isn't an objection, just something I find humourous.)

The plane of elemental earth. Where else?


2. The main use I can see for this spell isn't villain-smiting, it's hole-digging. A few scrolls (or a wand) of this and you can just drill through dungeon levels. Or cut a path up through dungeon levels, if the GM lets you target the ceiling. Or destroy supporting pillars. Or walls.

On the other hand you can do all that sort of thing with stone shape, too, which is also 3rd level, but stone shape is not (officially) a combat spell and only works on stone. And I think it might have a smaller affected volume.

I don't know what that means in terms of spell level, but it might be worth thinking about.

I had considered that. It could certainly be used to dig holes really fast. Though since the spell is Instant Pit as opposed to Instant Shaft it isn't meant to use on ceilings. An amendment that stipulates that it must be used
on open floor would nicely thwack the danger of stepping on sculpt stone's toes. That way it wouldn't be able to destroy walls. Just make a nice pit right next to them.

The spell certainly does lend some utility in terms of making holes straight down. But I don't think that alone is really enough to justify bumping the level up.

PairO'Dice Lost
2008-12-16, 07:22 PM
The digging-holes-fast application shouldn't be a problem; 1e had a spell called dig (appropriately enough) that dug out lots of area fairly fast, and we never had a problem with it avoiding dungeon levels and such.

J-H
2008-12-16, 08:59 PM
Excellent!

SoD
2008-12-16, 09:59 PM
Yar.

I see your Yar and raise you a Me Hearties.

Additional; I like this spell. Can't wait to use it. But question; how long does it last? Is is permanant? If not, what happens when whatever fell in is now buried down there? Combine with hold person so they can't get out, or stone wall or ice wall or wall of force or even gust of wind...it could be leathal. Especially when you summon a xorn at the bottom.

Sudden Quickened Instand Pit+Summon Elder Xorn=win.

Rebonack
2008-12-16, 10:38 PM
I see your Yar and raise you a Me Hearties.

Additional; I like this spell. Can't wait to use it. But question; how long does it last? Is is permanant? If not, what happens when whatever fell in is now buried down there? Combine with hold person so they can't get out, or stone wall or ice wall or wall of force or even gust of wind...it could be leathal. Especially when you summon a xorn at the bottom.

Sudden Quickened Instand Pit+Summon Elder Xorn=win.

Duration is instantaneous, so the pit doesn't go away. If it weren't then you could dispel it once someone falls in. That would be... much worse.

But once someone is down there you can do all sorts of unpleasant things to them, yes. Summon a monster or two at the bottom and watch the fire-works! Open up a bottle of endless water! Drop rocks on them? The possibilities are as endless as your imagination.

In other news I'll have the greater version up soonish. It will be great!

And probably sixth level.

Icewalker
2008-12-17, 12:51 AM
This is quite an awesome spell, I like it. It feels like it has some blurry points in the description which would require DM ruling, but I don't think any of them would be a particularly hard question, so there shouldn't be any trouble in it's actual use. (An example: using it in the floor of the walkway on a large wall :smalltongue:)

Yeah, I assumed elemental plane of earth as well. Looks balanced, very fun, and I can see a lot of interesting unusual uses for it other than that intended. Which is a good thing.

And I just looked up my other minor problem, and it turns out I was wrong. There isn't a climb DC for perfectly smooth surfaces, it is set as impossible in the book. Well done.

Katasi
2008-12-17, 01:28 AM
Duration is instantaneous, so the pit doesn't go away. If it weren't then you could dispel it once someone falls in. That would be... much worse.

But once someone is down there you can do all sorts of unpleasant things to them, yes. Summon a monster or two at the bottom and watch the fire-works! Open up a bottle of endless water! Drop rocks on them? The possibilities are as endless as your imagination.

In other news I'll have the greater version up soonish. It will be great!

And probably sixth level.

summon monster= cool
open a bottle of endless water? for a lightly armored villian, I wouldn't, cause they can just do the float or tread water thing and float up to the surface, now someone wearing full plate or mountain plate.... do that and sit back laugh at how much help their armor is now. And an enemy fire elemental plus that..... hahahahaha

Rebonack
2008-12-17, 01:40 AM
Using the spell on top of a wall to create a breach seems like a viable enough use of it to me. You would have to be up in the air to begin with so you would have a line-of-sight on the target area.

Or maybe use it right above the evil overlord's bed chambers for additional shenanigans.


summon monster= cool
open a bottle of endless water? for a lightly armored villain, I wouldn't, cause they can just do the float or tread water thing and float up to the surface, now someone wearing full plate or mountain plate.... do that and sit back laugh at how much help their armor is now. And an enemy fire elemental plus that..... hahahahaha

KIP and a Decanter of Endless Water. Great way to get rid of enemy clerics. Heavy armor and bad Ref saves. Better hope they prayed for Water Walk.

Katasi
2008-12-17, 02:02 AM
[QUOTE=Rebonack;5492151]Using the spell on top of a wall to create a breach seems like a viable enough use of it to me. You would have to be up in the air to begin with so you would have a line-of-sight on the target area.

Or maybe use it right above the evil overlord's bed chambers for additional shenanigans.
QUOTE]

I agree, that seems viable.

Putting a hole in the evil overlord's bedchambers could be very bad if he's one of those evil overlords that likes concubines..... especially if he also happens to be something gruesome, like a lich or a demon.

Chrono22
2008-12-17, 07:29 AM
It seems better than passwall. How about, instead of teleporting the ground away, it creates a temporary pocket dimension? Similar to a bag of holding, portable hole, or rope trick. Creatures inside the space are actually in an extradimensional space, which dissapears at the end of the spell duration.
I also think, a creature should be able to prevent some of the fall damage- with a successful tumble check (and/or jump check if they forgo the save).
Creatures still in the space return to the space they occupied before the spell was cast, or if that space is occupied they are shunted to the next nearest free space (taking 1d6 damage per five feet shunted, no save).

Dublock
2008-12-17, 08:32 AM
Ha. I like this spell. But honestly, what attracted me to this thread at the first place was the tiny toon reference. Heh, for some reason it's one of my best remembered episode.

The reason why I went into the thread :P

Giving creatures a way to avoid damage can be nice.

DracoDei
2008-12-17, 09:12 AM
Putting a hole in the evil overlord's bedchambers could be very bad if he's one of those evil overlords that likes concubines..... especially if he also happens to be something gruesome, like a lich or a demon.

Well if you were planning on fighting the BBEG ANYWAY, and if the cocubines have low enough CR not to be relevant, and BBEG doesn't get a Rage bonus out of it (and it seems unlikely that that sort of thing would be the straw that broke the camel's back) then it seems like the element of surprise/distraction could be a net plus. Not to mention that even a "Robe of the Magi" doesn't really strike me as bedroom wear, let alone Full-Plate.

Mercenary Pen
2008-12-17, 09:22 AM
Not to mention that even a "Robe of the Magi" doesn't really strike me as bedroom wear, let alone Full-Plate.

A Bathrobe of the Magi, on the other hand, fits quite nicely.

Rebonack
2008-12-17, 10:07 AM
Heh. It would be somewhat amusing if the spell didn't move creatures, but only inanimate objects. But then that means the target would land on a squirming pile of earth-worms.

I wonder what the stats for an earth-worm swarm are...

And a tumble check can reduce some of the damage since the damage uses the normal falling rules. A jump check won't work because you have to decide to jump into a hole to take advantage of that. As opposed to being abruptly dropped into a hole that wasn't there a moment ago.

As for pass-wall, that can be used to pass through... well... actual walls. If you're in your typical dungeon KIP isn't going to help much when it comes to by-passing walls.

Now a question from another thread.

Knix Instant Pit: i'm still pouring over it. At first glance, it seems like ti could be a lot of fun. i'm trying to crunch numbers on teh refvelx save right now: At 9th lvl the hole will 40 ft radius so a successful reflex of no more than 20 (unless you have a 24+ in the stat) save will move the character 40 feet which seems outlandish with jump DC around 40 (with a 5 foot running start), but that may be from lack of coffee. Regardless, this i snot the place to discuss. You have a nice shiny thread there for all of that mechanics stuff.

The radius of the hole of the spell is static. Ten feet for the normal version and twenty feet for the greater. The way I imagine the spell working the ground begins to fade a bit. If anyone in the area of effect notices what's going on and runs for it fast enough they can scramble to the edge before the ground vanishes all together.

I didn't want to deal with any jump-check related fuzziness.

DracoDei
2008-12-17, 10:35 AM
If it doesn't work on earthworms then it doesn't work on tree roots probably, and it it is strongly reduced in effectiveness in a forest, makeing it to the edge by running the last step or two on roots, grabbing a root to stop fall, and/or using them to aid the climbing are all aspects of this...
OTOH note that there would occasionally be trees falling AWAY from the hole if cast in such areas if it slices through the roots at the edge... which seems fine to me.

Rebonack
2008-12-17, 10:48 AM
If it doesn't work on earthworms then it doesn't work on tree roots probably, and it it is strongly reduced in effectiveness in a forest, makeing it to the edge by running the last step or two on roots, grabbing a root to stop fall, and/or using them to aid the climbing are all aspects of this...
OTOH note that there would occasionally be trees falling AWAY from the hole if cast in such areas if it slices through the roots at the edge... which seems fine to me.

Trees don't have a Wis or Cha score and are considered objects by the rules, not creatures. So tree roots would vanish away as well. And I can certainly see trees falling over the top of the hole if used in forested area. Would make climbing out a real bugger.

Coidzor
2008-12-17, 10:57 AM
This is pretty nice. And something that has been much needed.

I foresee a villainous variant of this spell that causes a much longer shaft (minimum of like, 25-30', maybe only need 20')
that closes up again over them in order to avoid having to have disgraced underlings from having to stand on a big X or anything like that.

Hmm... Maybe with a bit of an Illusory "Fwoosh" of flames. 6th level, maybe?

Maybe another variant that's linked to the plane of air, so that the area where the pit is formed is shunted to the plane of air and when the spell wears off (say, after 1d4 rounds) anyone or anything in the pit is switched with the ground. Maybe with a will save as a third chance to avoid being shunted off of the material plane(reflex save to avoid pit the first, chance to climb out of pit during rounds of grace period). Basically a less lethal, more easily avoided version of shunting things to the negative energy plane. Merely an inconvenience to higher level baddies, but like shoving people into a portable hole/bag of holding gambit if they're on the lower end of the totem pole.


If it doesn't work on earthworms then it doesn't work on tree roots probably, and it it is strongly reduced in effectiveness in a forest, makeing it to the edge by running the last step or two on roots, grabbing a root to stop fall, and/or using them to aid the climbing are all aspects of this...
OTOH note that there would occasionally be trees falling AWAY from the hole if cast in such areas if it slices through the roots at the edge... which seems fine to me.

Don't forget the possibility of having trees falling in on top of the person. /ninja'd

But in addition to what Rebonack said, there's also the crushing damage potential... Tasty.

DracoDei
2008-12-17, 11:30 AM
Come to that, a vertical walled shaft in the middle of a grassland with no bracing or packing doesn't sound like the most stable thing in the world to me... the top-soil might not be solid enough to do lethal damage, but the sub-dual and suffociation threats aren't to be underestimated... deeper down I think the dirt MIGHT be denser packed due to the absence of worms etc, and compaction from the weight above it...
We got any civil engineers, or construction workers around to render an opinion?

Edited January 2nd 2009 for spelling and punctuation in the last sentence.

t_catt11
2008-12-17, 01:04 PM
I'm late to the party, but I love the spell. 3rd level seems perfect for what it does.

This has immediately become a permanent part of my campaign lore!

Rebonack
2008-12-17, 08:40 PM
Making dirt fall on people would make things get really complicated in a hurry. And it would mostly be up to the DM how that kind of thing would be handled since it's so dependent on the precise nature of the surrounding terrain.

Hmm...

This would be a really good way to dig wells...

And I'm glad so many people are looking to add the spell into their games on both sides of the DM screen. Good stuff. Anyone who uses it? Tell me how it goes!

Icewalker
2008-12-17, 09:17 PM
This is pretty nice. And something that has been much needed.

I foresee a villainous variant of this spell that causes a much longer shaft (minimum of like, 25-30', maybe only need 20')
that closes up again over them in order to avoid having to have disgraced underlings from having to stand on a big X or anything like that.

Hmm... Maybe with a bit of an Illusory "Fwoosh" of flames. 6th level, maybe?

Perhaps a pit with spikes at the bottom?

rty275@comcast.
2009-01-02, 02:11 PM
make it teleport the ground directly above the new pit

...Despicable..
2009-01-03, 02:25 PM
snip


I love this. Although, I can see it being a bit overpowered if used right.

afroakuma
2009-01-03, 02:29 PM
I really want this for the Library. :smallbiggrin: