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BRC
2008-12-16, 01:15 PM
A Thought-Experiment/Potential character for an epic campaign. A Red Half-Dragon Troll with a Ring of Acid Immunity. The idea is that, because it is now immune to both Fire and Acid, it cannot be killed except by Starvation, Drowning, or Death Effects.
Now, The idea is that, provided at least one party member survives to stop the enemy from taking off the ring and splashing it with acid or something, the troll cannot die from hit-point damage.

AKA_Bait
2008-12-16, 01:25 PM
A blanket dispel magic, targeted dispel magic, AMF or DMZ would all allow the troll to get killed by HP damage as it would negate the ring long enough to kill the troll.

BRC
2008-12-16, 01:27 PM
True, but then you are fighting a Half-dragon troll barbarian in a slugfest. Yeah, we know the character won't be invincible, but I think the idea is to make it immune to as many things as possible.

Boci
2008-12-16, 01:30 PM
True, but then you are fighting a Half-dragon troll barbarian in a slugfest. Yeah, we know the character won't be invincible, but I think the idea is to make it immune to as many things as possible.

Halfblack dragon wartroll / Barbarian 1 / Frenzy Beserker 4

ECL: 26

AAANNNNDDDDD....full catsers still outshine this purely by existing.

AKA_Bait
2008-12-16, 01:33 PM
True, but then you are fighting a Half-dragon troll barbarian in a slugfest. Yeah, we know the character won't be invincible, but I think the idea is to make it immune to as many things as possible.

Why are you doing that? A blanket or targeted dispel will shut down the ring for a matter minutes without negating later magic in the area (like lots of fireballs). Also, you can throw Orbs into an AMF, you just can't cast them from outside.

BRC
2008-12-16, 01:34 PM
AAANNNNDDDDD....full catsers still outshine this purely by existing.
Of course, but if you go that route, there is no point in playing anything except a Wizards, Druids, and Clerics.

RTGoodman
2008-12-16, 01:37 PM
You don't need the ring of acid immunity. Surely there's a template out there with Acid Immunity. Like Half-Black Dragon. I mean, you'll have to hurt your brain figuring out how to make a Half-Red Dragon Half-Black Dragon Troll, but that should work. If you can find another template that gives it that'd be better, but RAW you can add two Half-Dragon templates.

Also, you're not the first to think of this - I've seen a few threads about it here and on WotC's forums before. Check Google - you should be able to find quite a bit on making a completely invincible monster.

arguskos
2008-12-16, 01:38 PM
Half-Black Dragon War Troll that somehow gains immunity to non-lethal damage. *ding!* It's immune to hit point damage of all types (now, to figure out how to make it immune to that non-lethal...)

Darrin
2008-12-16, 01:44 PM
Half-Black Dragon War Troll that somehow gains immunity to non-lethal damage. *ding!* It's immune to hit point damage of all types (now, to figure out how to make it immune to that non-lethal...)

Most "unkillable" builds use the Swarm template to make it immune to weapon damage and a Half-Golem template to make it immune to most magic. Not sure about non-lethal... but the Swarm template probably takes care of that.

Kurald Galain
2008-12-16, 01:52 PM
Fiendish black pudding. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4135320&postcount=21) Make it half-troll if you must :smalltongue:

RTGoodman
2008-12-16, 02:06 PM
Okay, I got it - Half-Black Dragon Dracolich War Troll.

A War Troll is a Giant with Regeneration that's overcome ONLY by Acid. Making it a Half-Black Dragon changes its type to Dragon and grants it immunity to Acid. Giving it the Dracolich template (Draconomicon), which can be added to any Evil dragon (like our creature) gives it standard Undead traits. This means immunity to Death effects AND non-lethal damage (which is what ALL damage done to it is), as well as no need to breathe, meaning it can't drown either. Completely immune to everything, I think. Anyone see anything I missed?

Prometheus
2008-12-16, 02:07 PM
This is the Gestalt build for it, posted by JeminiZero in one of those Gestalt challenges:
I'm kinda new to building Gestalt (and sticking so many templates onto one critter), so if I made a mistake please point it out. I think this is a relatively straight forward Ikea Tarrasque:

Golden Saint of Mystra
Or what you get when applying Half Gold-Dragon and Saint template (along with many others) to a Troll cleric of Mystra.

Alignment LG

Progression
01 Troll LA 1 / Troll HD 1: Feat: Extend Spell, Flaw: Poor Reflexes, Flaw Feat: Multiattack
02 Troll LA 2 / Troll HD 2:
03 Troll LA 3 / Troll HD 3: Feat: Persist Spell
04 Troll LA 4 / Troll HD 4:
05 Troll LA 5 / Troll HD 5:
06 Fetch LA 1 / Troll HD 6: Feat: Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
07 Fetch LA 2 / Wizard 1:
08 Fetch LA 3 / Cleric 1:
09 Fetch LA 4 / Cleric 2: Feat: Alternate Spell Source (needed to qualify for Geomancer)
10 Fetch LA 5 / Cleric 3:
11 Half GoldDragon LA 1 / Geomancer 1:
12 Half GoldDragon LA 2 / Geomancer 2: Feat: Initiate of Mystra
13 Half GoldDragon LA 3 / Geomancer 3:
14 Saint LA 1 / Geomancer 4:
15 Saint LA 2 / Geomancer 5: Feat: DMM: Persist Spell
16 Woodling LA 1 / Geomancer 6:
17 Woodling LA 2 / Geomancer 7:
18 Woodling LA 3 / Geomancer 8: Feat: Extra Turning
19 Phrenic LA 1 / Geomancer 9:
20 Phrenic LA 2 / Geomancer 10:


Geomancer Drift Abilities
Stage 1 (Geomancer 1 & 2):
(Purely fluff and unimportant)

Stage 2 (Geomancer 3 & 4):
-You sprout leaves and become photosynthetic. (You can subsist on 1 hour/day of sunlight in lieu of food, though you still require the same amount of water as before.)
-You can constrict like a snake. (You deal 1d3 points of damage with a successful grapple check against a creature of your size category or smaller.)

Stage 3 (Geomancer 5 & 6):
-You sprout fish gills. (You can breath both water and air.)
-Your toes grow lionlike claws. (You can make two rake attacks for 1d4 points of damage each if you gain a hold on your target.)

Stage 4 (Geomancer 7 & 8):
-You gain a boar's ferocity. (You can continue to fight without penalty even while disabled or dying.)
-You can grab like a bear. (You gain the improved grab ability as described on page 310 of the Monster Manual.)

Stage 5 (Geomancer 9 & 10):
-Your sense become as sharp as a bat's. You gain blind-sense out to 30 feet as described on page 306 of the Monser Manual.
-You grow a unicorn horn. (You gain +4 bonus on Fortitude saves against poison and a gore attack for 1d8 points of damage.)


Attributes

Attribute Modifiers
Str +12 Troll +8 Half Dragon = Total +20
Dex +4 Troll = Total +4
Con +12 Troll +2 Saint +2 Half Dragon = Total +16
Int -4 Troll +2 Phrenic +2 Half Dragon = Total +0
Wis -2 Troll +2 Phrenic +2 Saint = Total +2
Cha -4 Troll +4 Phrenic +4 Saint +2 Half Dragon = Total +6

AC Modifiers
-16 Natural Armor Bonus (5 Troll + 4 Half Dragon + 7 woodling)
-Saint Wis Insight bonus to AC (+7 if you assume +6 Wis Gear, +4 without)
Giving a total +20 (+23 with Wis boost gear +6) bonus to AC on top of what normal gear can net you (e.g. amulets of Barkskin, rings of deflection etc)

28 Point Buy
6 Str 14 +20 = 34
0 Dex 8 +4 = 12
6 Con 14 +16 = 30
6 Int 14
4 Wis 12 +2 = 14 +5 level up = 19
6 Cha 14 +6 = 20


Mechanics:
Troll: Gives Regeneration (Only Fire and Acid are lethal, you gain Fire and Acid immunity from other sources)
Saint: Immune to Acid, Cold, Electricity, & Petrifaction, Fast Healing = HD/2
Half Gold-Dragon: Immune to Fire, Paralysis, Sleep
Fetch: Immune to energy drains, ability damage, ability drain, and the special attacks of Ghosts.
Woodling: Immunity to Poison, Magical Sleep, Paralysis, Polymorph, Stunning, & Mind-Affecting spells & spell-like abilities. Does not take extra damage from Critical Hits.
Phrenic: PR equal HD + 10 (30 at ECL 20)
Geomancer: Immunity to Drowning (via Water Breath), HP falling below 0 (via Ferocity), slightly cheesy grapple attack (see below)

Half-Dragon Troll + Geomancer Attack Combo
(at least I think it works this way, could be wrong though)
Full Round Natural Attacks: Bite, Claw, Claw, Gore (Multiattack feat means secondary attack penalty is only -2)
-If both Claw hits, you get a Troll Rend as well
-If Either Claw hits, you can use improved grab
-If Improved Grab hits, you get 2 rakes + Constrict

All these are Ex abilities which function even in an antimagic field. So if an AMF is somehow advantageous to itself, it can cast it on itself and then e.g. grapple the lich to death. Beyond that it has spells of level 13 cleric (level 7) and caster level of 17, along with 2 DMM persists per day (or more if you use alignment shift cheese) and initiate of Mystra permitting casting in an AMF. So it can use DMM persisted Cleric spells to cover notable weaknesses (see below)


Items:
-Cha +4 Gear (for extra turning attempts)
-Wis +6 Gear (useful but not necessary, boost the Saint Wis insight AC bonus)
-Any other standard AC gear you might like (e.g. amulets of Barkskin, rings of deflection etc)


Notable Flaws:
-Multiclass penalty (Wizard 1 / Cleric 3 / 10 Geomancer)
-Can't use Nightsticks to power DMM. Unfortunate side effect of being LG as an Initiate of Mystra. It does not employ the alignment shifting cheese of the Twice betrayer of Shar, but if that is permitted, than Nightstick away.
-It is not normally immune to instant death effects, or disease. However, considering all its other immunities (particularly ability damage and drain), most disease will have no effect on it. That still leaves instant Death effects, but it can cover that via DMM persisted Cleric Death Ward or AMF. Edit: Or using gear like the Soulfire Armor mentioned below.
-Depending on your intepretation, certain 'fire' effects which can bypass fire immunity can damage it. E.g. Divine fire, Hellfire-Locks. Even then, it still has high HP from high Con bonus and Saint Fast Healing, and can do stuff like cast DMM persist Delay Death, so it won't die even from lethal HP loss (and it won't get knocked out either as Geomancer provides Ferocity as an Ex ability).-Subject to Turn Undead as a Fetch. Fetches can be stunned by turn undead, but this has immune to stunning via Woodling immunities. So the worst that turning can do is inflict "–4 penalty on attacks, saves, skill checks, & ability checks until the ‘turner’ attacks the Fetch, up to 10 rounds".


Break Points:
With all the Templates it unfortunately only starts off at level 20. Unless you use some kind of custom savage species progression, where you gradually gain template abilities as you level up. In which case ECL 15 (Troll + Half Dragon + Saint + Fetch) gives it most of its important immunities, preventing death from HP or ability score damage/drain.


Other Notes:
-With base Charisma of 20, and Extra Turning, gives it 12 turn attempts. A simple +4 Cha item improves this to 14 turn attempts, letting it DMM persist 2 spells per day (Deathward, Delay Death, Divine Power, AMF etc).
-Also has Woodling SLAs, and Phrenic PLAs
-Reasonably powerful fighter with high base strength + cleric buffs + many natural attacks
-Fetch gives Fly 30’, with Perfect maneuverability. Half Dragon gives Flight 2x base land speed (60' in this case) with average maneuverability. Not sure how these would stack together.
-6 levels of Troll HD (base troll HD is d8, half-dragon improves this to d10)

Winged One
2008-12-16, 02:26 PM
Okay, I got it - Half-Black Dragon Dracolich War Troll.

A War Troll is a Giant with Regeneration that's overcome ONLY by Acid. Making it a Half-Black Dragon changes its type to Dragon and grants it immunity to Acid. Giving it the Dracolich template (Draconomicon), which can be added to any Evil dragon (like our creature) gives it standard Undead traits. This means immunity to Death effects AND non-lethal damage (which is what ALL damage done to it is), as well as no need to breathe, meaning it can't drown either. Completely immune to everything, I think. Anyone see anything I missed?

CON as a nonability takes away regeneration.

Telonius
2008-12-16, 02:28 PM
Ways of rendering this thing as-good-as-dead:

Spell: Flesh to Stone. You now have a troll statue. Unfortunately it's still alive.

Spell: Polymorph Any Object. Now we're talking. PAO it into a Troll Zombie. It no longer has a Constitution score, and therefore no longer has Regeneration. Pound it to bits.

Elhann
2008-12-16, 02:32 PM
Okay, I got it - Half-Black Dragon Dracolich War Troll.

A War Troll is a Giant with Regeneration that's overcome ONLY by Acid. Making it a Half-Black Dragon changes its type to Dragon and grants it immunity to Acid. Giving it the Dracolich template (Draconomicon), which can be added to any Evil dragon (like our creature) gives it standard Undead traits. This means immunity to Death effects AND non-lethal damage (which is what ALL damage done to it is), as well as no need to breathe, meaning it can't drown either. Completely immune to everything, I think. Anyone see anything I missed?

Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) type means no constitution score. Which you need to have regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration).
Undeadifying the half dragon troll removes its regeneration, and thus, all damage you inflict on him (besides the immunities granted by the dracolich template, and probably acid if the template doesn't remove them) would be lethal.

EDIT: of course, I got ninjaed. But I gave shiny links. :smallsmile:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-12-16, 02:35 PM
At the higher levels and especially at the epic levels, anything you build your character specifically to do, any primary spellcaster can outdo you at that without hindering their ability to be a primary spellcaster.

Anyone level 21 with Epic Spellcasting can make Spellcraft DC 0 epic spells, meaning they take no time and cost nothing to research, you just need enough mitigating factors. You can make instantaneous spells (i.e. non-dispellable/MDJable) that use the Ward seed for each of Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing, plus any other type of damage you can think of, plus every single specific spell in the game. If the DM shows up with a new type of damage, just "research" another epic spell as a free action to ward against that too. Since it's instantaneous it can't be dispelled, can't be MDJed, AMF and dead magic areas don't affect it, just like ability score bonuses from Wishes.

There's absolutely no point in even trying to play this game at the epic levels, especially if you're going to try some kind of unkillable character shenanigans without making a spellcaster. Focus an epic nonspellcaster build on being unkillable, and you'll pose absolutely no threat to your opponents and end up with a worthless character. It doesn't matter if you're unkillable if the spellcasters in the party with +50 initiative and in the form of a Dire Tortoise always end every encounter on the Celerity round anyway.

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 02:35 PM
Pickpocket the ring and walk away. Let him die of old age.

Besides you can't die from drowning.

RTGoodman
2008-12-16, 03:26 PM
CON as a nonability takes away regeneration.


Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) type means no constitution score. Which you need to have regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration).

Ah, right. You know, I even looked up regeneration to look for that, but apparently the SRD I looked on had that little bit in a different section. :smallannoyed:

Well, surely there's another way to get immunity to non-lethal damage without losing your Con score.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-16, 03:29 PM
Ah, right. You know, I even looked up regeneration to look for that, but apparently the SRD I looked on had that little bit in a different section. :smallannoyed:

Well, surely there's another way to get immunity to non-lethal damage without losing your Con score.No Types or Subtypes, but do Warforged suffer from non-lethal?

Keld Denar
2008-12-16, 03:31 PM
Acidborn Woodling 1/2 Red Dragon Troll. Its a plant (immune to crits/SA), has the aquatic subtype so it can breath air or water, is immune to acid and fire.

Still subject to death effects, but not Flesh to Stone (no flesh, its a plant!).

RS14
2008-12-16, 03:42 PM
Anyone level 21 with Epic Spellcasting can make Spellcraft DC 0 epic spells, meaning they take no time and cost nothing to research, you just need enough mitigating factors. You can make instantaneous spells (i.e. non-dispellable/MDJable) that use the Ward seed for each of Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing, plus any other type of damage you can think of, plus every single specific spell in the game. If the DM shows up with a new type of damage, just "research" another epic spell as a free action to ward against that too. Since it's instantaneous it can't be dispelled, can't be MDJed, AMF and dead magic areas don't affect it, just like ability score bonuses from Wishes.


I don't believe it works that way.


A spellcaster can prepare or cast any epic spell he or she knows as many times per day as he or she has available epic spell slots. A spellcaster who can cast epic spells has a number of open epic spell slots per day equal to one-tenth his or her ranks in the Knowledge skill appropriate to the spell and the caster’s class.

So a level 21 spellcaster can only leave two epic spell slots open should they need to develop and cast a spell instantly.

As a DM, I would hit you with a book if you tried to pull-off instant development cheese. Or rule, wrt
Developing an epic spell takes one day for each 50,000 gp in resources required to develop the spell, rounded up to whole days.
that "whole" in this context means positive integers, and thus you cannot develop any epic spell in less than a day.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-16, 03:45 PM
I don't believe it works that way.



So a level 21 spellcaster can only leave two epic spell slots open should they need to develop and cast a spell instantly.

As a DM, I would hit you with a book if you tried to pull-off instant development cheese. Or rule, wrt
that "whole" in this context means positive integers, and thus you cannot develop any epic spell in less than a day.Fine. Greater Celerity, Time Stop, Planeshift, develop the spell, Planeshift, cast it.

TheCountAlucard
2008-12-16, 07:23 PM
You don't have to kill the troll to "defeat" him. Just Plane Shift him to the Negative Energy Plane. Not your problem anymore.

EDIT: Dang! Ninja'ed! My Internet REALLY sucks!

monty
2008-12-16, 07:28 PM
Lernaean Two-Headed Half-Clay Golem Half-Red Dragon.

Can only be hurt by death effects, and is immune to almost everything that allows spell resistance.

puppyavenger
2008-12-16, 07:31 PM
isn't there an IKEA tarrasque for this?

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 07:31 PM
Half-City Cave Troll. And since it's the king, it has the Right of Eminent Domain, which means it can stop you from bulldozing where it doesn't want you to.

SoD
2008-12-16, 08:27 PM
You can still kill it by knocking it unconcious with non-leathal damage, then coup de graceing it.

Telonius
2008-12-17, 06:11 AM
The Coup de Gras attack still has to be able to deal lethal damage to it. Since it's a troll, normal damage is automatically converted to nonlethal. And if he's immune to energy etc. ... see the problem?

Grail
2008-12-17, 06:37 AM
A Thought-Experiment/Potential character for an epic campaign. A Red Half-Dragon Troll with a Ring of Acid Immunity. The idea is that, because it is now immune to both Fire and Acid, it cannot be killed except by Starvation, Drowning, or Death Effects.
Now, The idea is that, provided at least one party member survives to stop the enemy from taking off the ring and splashing it with acid or something, the troll cannot die from hit-point damage.

I tried building and playing something like this in an Arena combat a couple years back... thought myself so smart.

First fight, the opposition hit me with CON damage. :smalleek:
Game over.

There is always something that will get around it. Of course, the trick is that people won't necessarily realize what they're up against to start with and will be bringing out the good'ol toys of fire an acid, at least for 1, maybe 2 rounds.

Charity
2008-12-17, 06:50 AM
isn't there an IKEA tarrasque for this?

yup (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160)

Oh of course the post too short message *laments the passing of brevity in the playground*

Belial_the_Leveler
2008-12-17, 06:51 AM
People, people. An Arcane Reach greater teleport is core and it is a will save or be teleported wherever the wizard wants. The destination happens to be the wizard's specially prepared room with a sphere of annihilation inside. Instant obliteration.

Rei_Jin
2008-12-17, 07:44 AM
Also, note tnat the metamagic feat, Scorching Spell from Sandstorm allows you to overcome fire immunity with fire based spells. Even the almighty Ikea Tarrasque will die to this feat, and I should know, I made the thing.

Codex creep means that for every situation, there is something you can use to defeat it.

Stupid Wizards of the Crackpipe, making their own game internally inconsistant.

Iku Rex
2008-12-17, 08:06 AM
People, people. An Arcane Reach greater teleport is core and it is a will save or be teleported wherever the wizard wants. The destination happens to be the wizard's specially prepared room with a sphere of annihilation inside. Instant obliteration.

Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
-- Teleport

hewhosaysfish
2008-12-17, 08:34 AM
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
-- Teleport

Plane Shift then.


And on the subject of "the Unstoppable Troll":
- 4e sucks because it doesn't have the flexibility to create characters like this; all characters in the dumbed-down edition are identical.
- These build suggestions prove that magic is not the Win Button that all the Logic Ninja fanboys say it is; this thing would totally kick any Wizards ass.
- Why can the Dracolich template only be applied to Evil Dragons anyway? What is I had a Golden Dragon Paladin who was forced by a curse to eat a baby every day? Would becoming a Dracolich (so he didn't have to eat any more) be a Good act? The Alignment system is stupid and restrictive.

Zen Master
2008-12-17, 09:41 AM
AAANNNNDDDDD....full catsers still outshine this purely by existing.

No thread without someone pointing this out. Like it's some magical mantra that automatically makes you awesome, and makes all other discussion moot.

Funny thing is - in no game I have EVER played was this true. Casters are only overpowered if you let them. And that's not happening, not in any game I've played in just over 21 years of roleplaying.

Gee ..... wonder why.

Keld Denar
2008-12-17, 09:45 AM
Gee ..... wonder why.

You're...doing...it...wrong? (TM)

BardicDuelist
2008-12-17, 10:02 AM
Plane Shift then.


And on the subject of "the Unstoppable Troll":
- 4e sucks because it doesn't have the flexibility to create characters like this; all characters in the dumbed-down edition are identical.
- These build suggestions prove that magic is not the Win Button that all the Logic Ninja fanboys say it is; this thing would totally kick any Wizards ass.
- Why can the Dracolich template only be applied to Evil Dragons anyway? What is I had a Golden Dragon Paladin who was forced by a curse to eat a baby every day? Would becoming a Dracolich (so he didn't have to eat any more) be a Good act? The Alignment system is stupid and restrictive.

Are you just trying to start a flame war by bringing the three topics (at least you didn't mention monks) up that get argued to the point of threads being closed the most?

What was the relevance of the 4e comment?

The fact that at least three suggestions for how to kill it with spells contradicts your last statement (at least one of the suggestions is quoted INT THE SAME POST that you said this).

So don't use it.

ericgrau
2008-12-17, 10:43 AM
Take troll out with nonlethal damage. Sever head. You now have 3d6 minutes to figure out a more permanent solution like, say, removing the ring. I mean regeneration 5?? How effective did you expect that to be?

Ability score damage works too.

monty
2008-12-17, 02:46 PM
People, people. An Arcane Reach greater teleport is core and it is a will save or be teleported wherever the wizard wants. The destination happens to be the wizard's specially prepared room with a sphere of annihilation inside. Instant obliteration.

And where are you getting this Sphere of Annihilation from? Seriously, what are the odds of you having an artifact? That assumes it even exists in the setting.

BRC
2008-12-17, 02:50 PM
And where are you getting this Sphere of Annihilation from? Seriously, what are the odds of you having an artifact? That assumes it even exists in the setting.
Orb of Ultimate Destruction perchance? 9th level spell that gives you essentially a temporary Sphere of Annihilation.

Deth Muncher
2008-12-17, 03:09 PM
Acidborn Woodling 1/2 Red Dragon Troll. Its a plant (immune to crits/SA), has the aquatic subtype so it can breath air or water, is immune to acid and fire.

Still subject to death effects, but not Flesh to Stone (no flesh, its a plant!).

This, + Ring of Sustenence? Or does the plant subtype let you photosynthesize?

EDIT:


Orb of Ultimate Destruction perchance? 9th level spell that gives you essentially a temporary Sphere of Annihilation.

One that's better controlled too, as I recall.



Are you just trying to start a flame war by bringing the three topics (at least you didn't mention monks) up that get argued to the point of threads being closed the most?

What was the relevance of the 4e comment?

The fact that at least three suggestions for how to kill it with spells contradicts your last statement (at least one of the suggestions is quoted INT THE SAME POST that you said this).

So don't use it.

Ironic that the troll you quoted is flaming this thread. :smallwink: Or that there's even flaming in a troll thread.

The Glyphstone
2008-12-17, 03:45 PM
Meta-trolling? Surreal.

Heliomance
2008-12-17, 04:12 PM
Plane Shift then.


You mean the one with the error margin measured in hundreds of miles?

Actually, Plane Shift can be used to kill it, but not like that. Shift it to the Positive Energy plane. Only Undead are protected from going boom due to positive energy overdose.

monty
2008-12-17, 04:32 PM
You mean the one with the error margin measured in hundreds of miles?

Actually, Plane Shift can be used to kill it, but not like that. Shift it to the Positive Energy plane. Only Undead are protected from going boom due to positive energy overdose.

Another way: get your Fort bonus to at least +19 and take Steadfast Determination (so you don't fail on a 1).

SoD
2008-12-17, 04:46 PM
The Coup de Gras attack still has to be able to deal lethal damage to it. Since it's a troll, normal damage is automatically converted to nonlethal. And if he's immune to energy etc. ... see the problem?

I see...I stuffed up last session then...the party faced a troll, they knocked it unconcious, and coup-de-graced it with a katana.