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Immutep
2008-12-16, 04:53 PM
Hi, as you can tell by my join date, i'm fairly new around here. But one thing that's stuck out to me is that every thread i've read seems to have at least two, usually more regular posters on their that start really just talking about something totally irrelevant, then seem to spark up a conversation within the topic that has nothing to do with what the OP had in mind. What i wanted to know was, does this always happen, or am i just looking at all the threads that do this?

P.s. please don't start talking about how a wizard/cleric/druid/whatever is the best choice for powergaming or something similar. I know i've probably asked for it.

Telonius
2008-12-16, 04:54 PM
Well, sometimes they ...


Ooo! Look! Butterfly!

:smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, most topics do generally drift or die.

lisiecki
2008-12-16, 04:55 PM
Hi, as you can tell by my join date, i'm fairly new around here. But one thing that's stuck out to me is that every thread i've read seems to have at least two, usually more regular posters on their that start really just talking about something totally irrelevant, then seem to spark up a conversation within the topic that has nothing to do with what the OP had in mind. What i wanted to know was, does this always happen, or am i just looking at all the threads that do this?

P.s. please don't start talking about how a wizard/cleric/druid/whatever is the best choice for powergaming or something similar. I know i've probably asked for it.

All threads decend in to how overpowered magic is
OR
Posters going on and on about there 13 doctorates in every subject that could possibly be related to the thread

Glimbur
2008-12-16, 04:56 PM
You know who could stay on one topic and get his point across? Hitler.

Seriously, though, the problem is that in any logical discussion lots of assumptions are made. Sometimes people disagree with those assumptions and so they effectively start a new topic in that thread to talk about that. Or they bring in baggage from other threads (see: Monk v Wizard).

Inyssius Tor
2008-12-16, 04:58 PM
Hi, as you can tell by my join date, i'm fairly new around here. But one thing that's stuck out to me is that every thread i've read seems to have at least two, usually more regular posters on their that start really just talking about something totally irrelevant, then seem to spark up a conversation within the topic that has nothing to do with what the OP had in mind. What i wanted to know was, does this always happen, or am i just looking at all the threads that do this?

P.s. please don't start talking about how a wizard/cleric/druid/whatever is the best choice for powergaming or something similar. I know i've probably asked for it.

I think it could be reasonably said that this happens to all threads which don't die within fifteen posts. On every forum I've ever encountered, in fact. The signal-to-noise ratio is regrettably pretty low here, but it's apparent all over the internet.

And this probably ought to go in Board/Site Issues.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-16, 04:59 PM
Really, I look at topics as a conversation between the posters, and when was the last conversation you had that stayed on the same topic it started on?

Vortling
2008-12-16, 05:00 PM
Threads are like real life conversations. They won't stay on topic unless you have someone very forceful holding them there.

Immutep
2008-12-16, 05:02 PM
I'm not saying by any means that this is solely happening on this forum, just that it is a bit more annoyingly done here. On other hobby forums i've joined the topic isn't RPG so it's much less distracting i think. Some of these posts could really shine if the OP's question or idea is adhered to so to see it debase into other topic trivial matters is much more upsetting i think.

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 05:05 PM
Topics are often resolved to the satisfaction of the Latter Poster, and so he makes a minor point that hasn't yet been addressed.

Often this minor point sparks a longer conversation because it's simply more interesting than the OP's point / question.

And others post to prove some people wrong or answer their unassociated questions.

Batman makes a frequent appearance. And so do people who think it's still clever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin_Law) to throw (http://www.baconcat.com/) tired old memes (http://whatever.scalzi.com/about/the-canonical-bacon-page/) around.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-16, 05:06 PM
I'm not saying by any means that this is solely happening on this forum, just that it is a bit more annoyingly done here. On other hobby forums i've joined the topic isn't RPG so it's much less distracting i think. Some of these posts could really shine if the OP's question or idea is adhered to so to see it debase into other topic trivial matters is much more upsetting i think.This forum is actually pretty good with staying on-topic compared to a lot of others. You really need to check out 4-chan. Or don't, if you value your sanity.

AKA_Bait
2008-12-16, 05:08 PM
Yeah. Sometimes topics do end up derailed by other discussions or just plain silliness (like the Snuggles thread). However, I've also seen topics that stay mostly on point for as many as 10 pages if the topic is particularly contentious and complex.

Personally, I tend to just skip the off topic comments unless they are really funny or interesting.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-16, 07:10 PM
You know who could stay on one topic and get his point across? Hitler.

I see Godwin's Law has been invoked.

I think the problem is that people are deceived. They believe there are infinitely many topics. In reality, there are only a finite number of meta-topics.

KIDS
2008-12-16, 07:13 PM
That is because everyone is in ur topic, off-topicing ur posts...

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 07:14 PM
Speaking of meta-topics, there are really only four types of dramatic theme. This seems appropriate to a roleplaying board, so here goes:

Man vs. Man
Man vs. Elephants
Pac-Man vs. Elephantitis
Ms. Pac-Man vs. Internet Memes

Tokiko Mima
2008-12-16, 07:36 PM
Hi, as you can tell by my join date, i'm fairly new around here. But one thing that's stuck out to me is that every thread i've read seems to have at least two, usually more regular posters on their that start really just talking about something totally irrelevant, then seem to spark up a conversation within the topic that has nothing to do with what the OP had in mind. What i wanted to know was, does this always happen, or am i just looking at all the threads that do this?

P.s. please don't start talking about how a wizard/cleric/druid/whatever is the best choice for powergaming or something similar. I know i've probably asked for it.

How often do you wander into a conversation that's exactly what you want to talk about? Don't you usually find that you have to nudge a discussion one way to make it fit what you want to talk about.

Within a certain limit, I consider it sort of the OP's responsibility to keep a thread on topic, if they want to keep a thread on topic. If the OP has further questions or isn't satisfied with their answers, they should ask more specific questions or refine their question. Keep in mind, you're asking your questions to a forum that's a bunch of unpaid bored people who love to discuss D&D and RPG's in general. If they weren't like that, they'd be reading about Hello Kitty's new releases or macrame or whatever. They answer your questions because it amuses them, and if they bend the thread to be more amusing, that's the price of admission.

Obviously, you can't start doing 180's on every topic so there are limits, but once the OP has been addressed, and the question answered I don't see a compelling need to stay exactly on topic. Sometimes the interesting context will be the hijack itself.

For example, an OP asks 'Hey, what's the best 1st level spell for a wizard?' and get's answered 'Sleep, duh' then a hijacker comes on with a rant about the Logic Ninja's Batman Wizard stereotype being overused and someone else asks where they can find more Batman Wizard information. If they had stayed on topic, the OP might never learn there was a spell by spell guide for Wizards, with save or die, save or suck, and no save spells detailed.

sebsmith
2008-12-16, 07:41 PM
If you want to learn more about how forum topics operate, the best source I found was here (http://web.archive.org/web/20041118132014/http://www.xtalmac.com/webboardmech/).

Kris Strife
2008-12-16, 07:41 PM
You know whats awesome? Pie. I want to go into a resturant and order Pi meals with e sides and -i^2 drinks.

monty
2008-12-16, 07:43 PM
You know whats awesome? Pie. I want to go into a resturant and order Pi meals with e sides and -i^2 drinks.

Just make sure you get square meals. Because, you know, pi r^2.

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 07:43 PM
Whereupon the waiter brings you just about three meals, a crumb of a baked potato on the side, and throws a pitcher of ice water on you.

Roll for Sense Motive to see if he's upset.

Waspinator
2008-12-16, 07:44 PM
I give this topic my seal of approval.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4443/babyseal1024cg9.jpg

Tacoma
2008-12-16, 07:46 PM
That seal of approval is hideous. It gets my club of disapproval (+1).

Moff Chumley
2008-12-16, 08:00 PM
@OP: You were asking for this.

Yukitsu
2008-12-16, 08:02 PM
I see Godwin's Law has been invoked.


Godwin's requires comparing a poster to Hitler, not just saying his name. He's not Hastur. Now Hastur, that's a guy with class. If you want something done, all you have to do is call up Hast...

Ravens_cry
2008-12-16, 08:06 PM
"Glory Unto Good Cat,Who Shoveth rex's Heads Dost Where Hence The Suns Rays Dost Not Be Visible Verily Upon his Native Anatomy."
Neener Unto The Rexites 17:56

Kris Strife
2008-12-16, 08:22 PM
Whereupon the waiter brings you just about three meals, a crumb of a baked potato on the side, and throws a pitcher of ice water on you.

Roll for Sense Motive to see if he's upset.

The number e is actually approximately equal to 2.17

monty
2008-12-16, 08:22 PM
I give this topic my seal of approval.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4443/babyseal1024cg9.jpg

http://store.asymmetric.net/images/club_seals.gif

monty
2008-12-16, 08:27 PM
The number e is actually approximately equal to 2.17

An approximation to three significant figures would be 2.72, actually.

Prometheus
2008-12-16, 08:30 PM
Question: Do all topics run off topic?
Answer: Yes.

Matthew
2008-12-16, 08:41 PM
Some do, some do not. Saph's campaign report thread seems to have been pretty much on topic for five pages or so. Sometimes you can stop a derailment by starting another thread on the topic that is suddenly dominating the thread. Honestly, though, the topics tend to run in cycles with the same ones coming up time and again.

Thurbane
2008-12-16, 08:51 PM
I used to have a dog named Segue. Speaking of dogs...

:biggrin:

Curmudgeon
2008-12-16, 08:55 PM
It's a matter mostly of general poster behavior. I've found that this board tends to have more posters who read the title or first couple of posts and then jump in with their own contributions without reading the rest. The result is that the same points get made repeatedly without reference to prior discussion. In the midst of all that non-interactive input, it's frequently more interesting to follow a discussion among those who have read the prior posts, even if that discussion is tangential to the original theme. Reasoned debate, even if it's off-topic, is much more worthwhile than trying to have a discussion with people who clearly aren't paying attention.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-16, 08:58 PM
It's a matter mostly of general poster behavior. I've found that this board tends to have more posters who read the title or first couple of posts and then jump in with their own contributions without reading the rest. The result is that the same points get made repeatedly without reference to prior discussion. In the midst of all that non-interactive input, it's frequently more interesting to follow a discussion among those who have read the prior posts, even if that discussion is tangential to the original theme. Reasoned debate, even if it's off-topic, is much more worthwhile than trying to have a discussion with people who clearly aren't paying attention.The worst part is those that don't pay attention generally show up most in threads which are so often rehashed that they don't realize how much the point they're making has been re-stated. :smallfurious:

Curmudgeon
2008-12-16, 09:07 PM
The worst part is those that don't pay attention generally show up most in threads which are so often rehashed that they don't realize how much the point they're making has been re-stated. :smallfurious: Well, that makes sense. Those topics keep getting rehashed because they have the most appeal, which means the post counts grow quickly. Those who don't bother to read prior posts generally are avoiding spending the time -- but popular topics will appeal to the post-without-reading crowd just as much as to those of us who do care. QED, alas.

bosssmiley
2008-12-17, 07:32 AM
It's a matter mostly of general poster behavior. I've found that this board tends to have more posters who read the title or first couple of posts and then jump in with their own contributions without reading the rest. The result is that the same points get made repeatedly without reference to prior discussion. In the midst of all that non-interactive input, it's frequently more interesting to follow a discussion among those who have read the prior posts, even if that discussion is tangential to the original theme. Reasoned debate, even if it's off-topic, is much more worthwhile than trying to have a discussion with people who clearly aren't paying attention.

Tl;dr :smallwink: (also too much "BAAAW!")

Some of us have better things to do than swedge through 4-5 pages of the usual suspects going off topic and fisking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking) one another. :smalltongue:

@OP: Yes, yes they do. Sometimes a question is answered in a post or two. The answer itself giving rise to new and interesting discussion.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-12-17, 07:48 AM
The only threads that stay on topic are short, list threads, and Epic Threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53160).

Epic Threads stay on topic because, no matter how far off topic they go, they always regress to the mean. :smallbiggrin:

Honestly though, I find this forum's ability to stay on topic sufficient for the needs. If someone has something useful to say on a topic, they'll say it even if the past 10 pages have been about some cat-god or somesuch.

You can't squeeze blood from a stone; if nobody has said anything useful and on-topic in your thread, then maybe nobody has anything to say about it.

But to the OP directly: you said you find the wandering annoying. Do you have specific examples of threads and how the wandering annoyed you?

AKA_Bait
2008-12-17, 08:34 AM
Question: Do all topics run off topic?
Answer: Yes.

Question: Do all topics run off topic?
Answer: Cheese.

Immutep
2008-12-17, 12:24 PM
But to the OP directly: you said you find the wandering annoying. Do you have specific examples of threads and how the wandering annoyed you?

Well there's one that somebody posted up to suggest a possible cost for casting magic in V3.5 D&D to balance cause/effect, on which there are afew people who have (certainly with the original intention of staying on topic i'm sure) started a debate about the best uses of magic in a totally seperate game system. There are others i assure you but this was the most recent.

Hzurr
2008-12-17, 12:26 PM
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Elephants
Pac-Man vs. Elephantitis
Ms. Pac-Man vs. Internet Memes

*sigh* The first thing I thought of when I read that last one was "Im in ur maze, eatin ur ghosts!"

Also, Pac-Man vs. Elephantitis is no contest. It's very obvious who would win.