How can I justify this...

[Talya]

I want my party to encounter a dragon...in the first level of this ancient vault they are exploring. It's a level 4 (possibly 5 by the time they are inside) party, but it's an exceptionally large PBP group (crew of a pirate ship, actually.)

The dungeon is the entrance to an ancient efreeti treasure vault, and it needs to be very fire themed. I thought, as an easy yet epic feeling encounter on the first level, I should put them up against a CR5 dragon--like a very young red. They'll defeat him with ease.

Problem is, this dungeon is supposed to be ancient, and unopened for millenia. A very young dragon is no more than 15 years old. I'm trying to come up with a way to explain this that's immediately apparent to the players without feeling contrived. (I mean, everything in a campaign is technically contrived, but it shouldn't FEEL that way.)

[Oslecamo]

For years another two great dragons nested in there.

However due to some disease/misfortune they and all of their offspring were killed inside said temple.

All except one lonely hatchling, wich has done it's best to guard daddy's treasure year after year for the last decade.

Perhaps his parents sacrificed themselves to seal the monster who somehow sneacked inside the closed temple and almost destroyed them all, and he now wanders the temple, all alone, filled with anger.

[Kurald Galain]

Stasis field.

Or, a Sleeping Beauty-type sleep spell (as opposed to a Rip Van Winkle-style sleep spell).

[bosssmiley]

Suspended animation/hibernation.
An unhatched egg that hatches into a V.Y. red when the players accidentally deactivate the cooling water jets pouring onto it.
The old animating statue/mosaic/mural/bas-relief that turns into a dragon trick.
It's summoned from an inferno by/erupts from the body of a fire-and-forget villain.
Contrived is ok if you slather enough flavourful imagery onto it. :smallwink:

[Charity]

The dragon looking for a secure sight for it's future hoard snuck through some cracks in the structure of the place?

The last lot of adventuring gimps to head this way were carrying a dragon egg?

The last lot of adventuring gimps found a cursed item which transformed one of them into an evil dragon... that proceeded to eat his ex comrades?

red dragons lay their eggs in ancient rock strata that only gestate when uncovered (in this case by shifting earth)?

or just don't explain it, wait for some smart arse player to come up with their own reason and run with that.

[newbDM]

What about a skeletal one which was animated (and probably killed) to be bonded/tied to the area in order to protect the treasure?


Alternative, how did your players hear about this dungeon/treasure? Maybe the young dragon caught wind of the recently discovered treasure at around the same time the PCs did, and is trying to make a "big score" at a much younger age than normal (dragons are ambitious and greedy like that). Maybe if the players use diplomacy instead of immediate violence there is a chance of recruiting the dragon to their side (tactical RPG style)?


p.s. Can you please tell me what is a PBP group means? I have not heard that term yet.

[FinalJustice]

Last descendant of a lineage of Red Dragons destined to hoard and guard the treasure, who shouldn't be guarding the treasure alone but something really terrible and attached to your plot happened to his parents.

Efreeti's pet? He likes puppies, and as puppies he means Wyrmlings, so bigger dragons send their sons to serve the Efreeti's in exchange for treasure (Red Dragons, what can ya do) and hope the kids learn something in the process.

[Charity]

p.s. Can you please tell me what is a PBP group means? I have not heard that term yet.

Play By Post forum game.

[Noneoyabizzness]

Problem is, this dungeon is supposed to be ancient, and unopened for millenia. A very young dragon is no more than 15 years old. I'm trying to come up with a way to explain this that's immediately apparent to the players without feeling contrived. (I mean, everything in a campaign is technically contrived, but it shouldn't FEEL that way.)

dragons are highly intelligent powerful casters. they can get bored easily.
the ancient red might sometimes not be there to run a crime league in a nearby town take ou draconic rivals might have gone to mate (dracological clock ticking)

let them kill the young adult eventually mama will stop shirking responsibility come back to find its spawn dead. some of the trinkets that might have been part of the mamas original horde there as keepsakes gone and the effritti all dead. now, any useful pawns of that cave gone, its child dead, and some horde trinkets gone: it wants to avenge this slight.

you have more plot hooks plus some scaling up to mid-to-high levels

[Egiam]

Have the P.C.s find the skeletons of 2 HUGE dragons. Then the CR 5 baby

[Premier]

Create a new monster, an ornate clockwork dragon which is about the right power, and use that.

Not only does it explain how it could have been there forever, it's also somewhat thematically appropriate. Efreeti are all Arabic, and stuff like clockwork songbirds are not all that alien to the Arabic Oriental genre - see the 1001 Nights.

[Talya]

Have the P.C.s find the skeletons of 2 HUGE dragons. Then the CR 5 baby


That almost works, but I don't see dragons with a newborn hatchling dying of old age.

I think I've got some good ideas from this thread, though. I'm also thinking perhaps this dungeon is partially extradimensional--a dungeon sized bag of holding, if you will--that it sits between planes and time doesn't move much at all there.

Note that this is likely the first combat encounter of the dungeon. It's gonna get more epic from there.

[quick_comment]

Have the dragon is suspended animation, and it is awoken when the PCs trigger a certain trap.

[Another_Poet]

I would like to suggest a twist on one of the ideas above.

Two adult red dragons were trapped in the tomb, and they mated, producing the young dragon on the first level. However, the parents didn't die... they are lurking somewhere on the lower levels of the dungeon. Possibly with more offspring! Nothing like fighting 2 elder red dragons on 3-4 young red dragons all at the same time. Creatures with that much int coordinating their tactics? Heck yeah. For that matter, the kids could alternate form into humanoids and use the piles of magic items in the hoard. Mmmm-hmmmm.

For a spookier twist, add a little ecology to your game. Let's say dragons normally mate, and then split up - daddy doesn't stick around to rear the young. Since mommy and daddy were trapped together in the tomb, however, leaving wasn't an option - and hubby soon became an annoyance to the mother red dragon, who was already ornery from laying eggs and hunting food for screaming younglings. The PC's find the mauled, desecrated and half-eaten remains of a great wyrm red dragon. The bite marks and claw swipes on its carcass are humongous? Who could've done this? Hehehe.... the wife did it, and she has gained character levels from the XP she earned by killing a CR25!

Anyway, that's how I'd set it up, and I wouldn't offer the PCs any immediate explanation. As they go deeper they will find clues.

[Telonius]

That almost works, but I don't see dragons with a newborn hatchling dying of old age.

I think I've got some good ideas from this thread, though. I'm also thinking perhaps this dungeon is partially extradimensional--a dungeon sized bag of holding, if you will--that it sits between planes and time doesn't move much at all there.

Note that this is likely the first combat encounter of the dungeon. It's gonna get more epic from there.


Please tell me your players don't have any portable holes with them. :smalleek:

[Draken]

Make it an effigy or some other sort of construct (or construct-like being). Basically get the dragon describe it as a construct, take away the dragon type and con score and give it construct racials. It will probably remain the same general level of difficulty, but the rogue will be sad. Since it is a pirate crew I presume there are a number of rogues.

The rogue(s) will be less sad, and it will be far more amusing, if you slap warforged racials on the dragon as if they were a template (+ con, - wis, living construct, etc.).

[Burley]

I don't think I'm repeating anybody here, so:

They finally open the door, which has some sort of enchantment about nothing of flame may touch the door. They'll be like, "Okay... Whatever, we're not fire." And the door opens easily.
In the first large room they enter, there is a huge mirror on one wall. As they walk down the room, it looks like their normal party of pirates, but in the mirror, there is a red dragon walking amongst them. Spot checks to notice that there is an extra party member... When called out, he changes shape.
Have the mirror get chattered, leaving only slivers of glass, except for a single palm sized shard that allows True-Seeing once per day, but it cuts the user's hand for 1d4 damage. Good magic item with flavor and a story that they'll all remember.

[KillianHawkeye]

Two adult red dragons were trapped in the tomb, and they mated, producing the young dragon on the first level. However, the parents didn't die... they are lurking somewhere on the lower levels of the dungeon. Possibly with more offspring! Nothing like fighting 2 elder red dragons on 3-4 young red dragons all at the same time. Creatures with that much int coordinating their tactics? Heck yeah. For that matter, the kids could alternate form into humanoids and use the piles of magic items in the hoard. Mmmm-hmmmm.

If you do something like this, then the initial young dragon could have wandered off to the upper levels of the dungeon and gotten lost, explaining why it's the first thing the PCs come across.

[SurlySeraph]

If he's on the first level, why not say he broke in? Better yet, have him enter by the same entrance the PCs did, following them. Given that it's fire-themed, it's easy to explain why the dragon wanted in.

[Prometheus]

It's a stone statue of a dragon, that subsequently transforms into a real dragon upon the player's encountering it. Whatever magic went into either a) preserved the age of the original dragon or b) was limited in size and settled for a smaller dragon. This also gives the feel of trespassing and the like.

[Tacoma]

If he's on the first level, why not say he broke in? Better yet, have him enter by the same entrance the PCs did, following them. Given that it's fire-themed, it's easy to explain why the dragon wanted in.

This is excellent. It also incorporates a more active, mobile feeling to the upper dungeon to contrast with the ancient stillness of the lower tomb.

[lisiecki]

Problem is, this dungeon is supposed to be ancient, and unopened for millenia. A very young dragon is no more than 15 years old. I'm trying to come up with a way to explain this that's immediately apparent to the players without feeling contrived. (I mean, everything in a campaign is technically contrived, but it shouldn't FEEL that way.)

He was guarding the Sphere of Annihilation

~~Innocent Look~~

[Tsotha-lanti]

Problem is, this dungeon is supposed to be ancient, and unopened for millenia. A very young dragon is no more than 15 years old.

It's a magical dungeon where things do not age. After all, the efreeti wouldn't want their treasures molding, corroding, rotting, etc.

Alternately, the dungeon has many portals to other places and planes that work in arcane and mostly random ways so that the PCs can't figure out how to use them on purpose.

[Fax Celestis]

He's been summoned? Planar bound? Earthbound in a room whose only exit is vertical?

Maybe he's a dracolich and the cave is his phylactery.

[Tacoma]

Oh, of course! Make the Young Red Dragon actually a child with a plush red dragon doll. You do have a PC who has a death curse to be struck down by a red dragon, right?

[MammonAzrael]

I was going to suggest something close to Another Poet's idea, where the parents of the dragon are lurking deeper in the dungeon (perhaps bound into service by the efreeti?). The little guy wandered away on his own, exploring the tomb, and that's why the party encounters him so early, and away from adults.

[Epic_Wizard]

I don't think I'm repeating anybody here, so:

They finally open the door, which has some sort of enchantment about nothing of flame may touch the door. They'll be like, "Okay... Whatever, we're not fire." And the door opens easily.
In the first large room they enter, there is a huge mirror on one wall. As they walk down the room, it looks like their normal party of pirates, but in the mirror, there is a red dragon walking amongst them. Spot checks to notice that there is an extra party member... When called out, he changes shape.
Have the mirror get chattered, leaving only slivers of glass, except for a single palm sized shard that allows True-Seeing once per day, but it cuts the user's hand for 1d4 damage. Good magic item with flavor and a story that they'll all remember.

You scare me :smalleek:

[tonberrian]

He's an adventurer, looking to loot the place for profit. Let him escape, and he could come back as a recurring rival, seeking out lost treasures and artifacts for his own purposes.

Fedora and whip cost extra.

[Tacoma]

He could start a criminal organization called the Red Dragon Gang, and make everyone wear red and black cloaks and red and black laquered full-face masks.

They rob from the rich and give to the dragon!

EDIT: And then he eats the rich.

[woodenbandman]

He is a half-elf dragon, thus having a longer life span.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Dragon is a Mature Adult or Old. He's physically and magically bound to guard the dungeon. It's muzzled(no bite/breath) looks scrawny due to the lack of exercise(fewer HD, lower stats), is in too small an area to turn around(no tail), that sort of thing. You have to homebrew it completely, but it means your characters can kill a Huge Dragon at level 5.

[Epic_Wizard]

The Dragon is a Mature Adult or Old. He's physically and magically bound to guard the dungeon. It's muzzled(no bite/breath) looks scrawny due to the lack of exercise(fewer HD, lower stats), is in too small an area to turn around(no tail), that sort of thing. You have to homebrew it completely, but it means your characters can kill a Huge Dragon at level 5.

Nah this would just annoy the players.

As far as a viable reason for the dragon to be there goes. Part of a trap and/or temporal stasis, flesh to stone, mechanical, etc..., are probably your best bets. You can always just summon it and then give them the exp for defeating the trap which just happens to be the same as for defeating the dragon. Plus this gets rid of clever players and dragon crafted items since summons just disappear when slain. (Clever players ALWAYS seem to want to harvest dragon bits)

[Coidzor]

@^: This is because, as Dragonprime can attest. Dragons. Taste. Delicious. :smallamused:


Create a new monster, an ornate clockwork dragon which is about the right power, and use that.

Not only does it explain how it could have been there forever, it's also somewhat thematically appropriate. Efreeti are all Arabic, and stuff like clockwork songbirds are not all that alien to the Arabic Oriental genre - see the 1001 Nights.

This and Burley Monk's idea about the Dragon hiding amongst them and being revealed through a magical mirror/ambushing them by infiltration are pretty good, I say.

[Talya]

I absolutely love the clockwork dragon.

[Random NPC]

They finally open the door, which has some sort of enchantment about nothing of flame may touch the door. They'll be like, "Okay... Whatever, we're not fire." And the door opens easily.
In the first large room they enter, there is a huge mirror on one wall. As they walk down the room, it looks like their normal party of pirates, but in the mirror, there is a red dragon walking amongst them. Spot checks to notice that there is an extra party member...

Hilarity ensues.

[Samurai Jill]

For years another two great dragons nested in there.

However due to some disease/misfortune they and all of their offspring were killed inside said temple.

All except one lonely hatchling, wich has done it's best to guard daddy's treasure year after year for the last decade.

Perhaps his parents sacrificed themselves to seal the monster who somehow sneacked inside the closed temple and almost destroyed them all, and he now wanders the temple, all alone, filled with anger.
Awww... you can't just kill him!

Poor lonely hatchling... *sniff*

[Doresain]

its actually a serial killer with a tattoo of a red ragon on his back...he likes to kill women and replace their eyes with shards of broken glass

anyone who gets the obvious reference will get an imaginary cookie

[Epic_Wizard]

I absolutely love the clockwork dragon.

It just occurred to me that this one has the extra advantage of treasure. You just loot the 'corpse' for valuable/magical items. Plus if need be you can buff it and add more treasure by making stuff like it's claws magical (and having them loot as +1 or +2 daggers or whatever someone in the party can use.