Forms for small (and wanting to be smaller) Alter Self users?

[Caeldrim]

Hey all.

I'm currently looking for some forms to Alter Self my small self (Whisper Gnome) and my tiny familiar (Weasel) into. I'm looking for forms smaller than small with flight/burrow/swim speeds.

All the lists of 'useful forms' i could find around the place were targeted at Medium PCs, and nobody seemed that keen to make themselves SMALLER.

I'd Polymorph into a grig or something, but I don't have polymorph yet, and my DM isn't making it easy for me to get new spells. :)

Ideas? I could probably get away with anything from core/complete/races books, and maybe other stuff (as long as it's not REALLY ridiculously cheesy)

[Eldran]

The only thing I can think of at the moment would be for you to take the otherwordly feat (Reginal Feat FR) and use it to alter yourself into a Mephit of your liking.

Edit: There is also no reason for you to avoid the medium sized forms. Alter Self allows you to change into something of medium size as a small character.

There a quite few possible choices: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=176246

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Humanoids smaller than small are extremely rare(in fact, there are none in the SRD). I can't think of any, at least. For your familiar, well, since it's a Magical Beast, it gets a lot more options.

[kamikasei]

Why do you want to be so small? For AC? Stealth/infiltration? The lulz?

[Khanderas]

Why do you want to be so small? For AC? Stealth/infiltration? The lulz?
I second this question.

[Darrin]

I'm currently looking for some forms to Alter Self my small self (Whisper Gnome) and my tiny familiar (Weasel) into. I'm looking for forms smaller than small with flight/burrow/swim speeds.


I can't find any evidence that there are any Tiny Humanoids in 3.x. The closest I can find is a Tiny Monstrous Humanoid, the Muckdweller (in Serpent Kingdoms, I think).

Possibly useful small humanoids:
Tasloi, climb 40' (Oriental Adventures)
Air Mephling, fly 10' (Planar Handbook)
Earth Mephling, burrow 10' (Planar Handbook)
Water Mephling, swim 30' (Planar Handbook)

To Alter Self into something interesting, you're going to have to change your type. Someone already mentioned Otherworldly (changes your type to Outsider), but I think that can only be taken at 1st level. So you're probably going to need a template of some sort. Fortunately, there are a few templates out there that can be taken as racial class levels. Half-dragon springs to mind, but there are probably fewer tiny dragons in the world than there are tiny humanoids. Fey-Touched and Half-Fey are both fairly cheap LA-wise (+1 and +2 respectively), and as a bonus, most of the really useful tiny forms out there are all pretty much fey. Check the WotC website for details on racial class levels:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

One level of either Feytouched or Half-Fey should do the trick. Half-Fey would probably be best... +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con, +4 on enchantment saves, hypnotism 1/day, and oh, what's this? Charm person *at will*. Oh, like that couldn't possibly be useful.

Take the 2nd level of Half-Fey and you get +2 Wis, +2 Cha, immunity to enchantment, and a fly speed equal to double your base move.

The downside is you lose at least one caster level. You didn't mention if your gnome was a full caster, so I don't know if that's important.

[Caeldrim]

I second this question.

All of the aforementioned reasons.

More AC is always good. I don't think i need to explain that any further.

Stealth is good - said Gnome has a 'no ranks' Hide modifier of +11, and more is always nice. Our party is very stealth oriented, and i'm the only one in the group who doesn't have hide as a class skill, so i'm looking for little boosts here and there to 'keep up'.

Bonus to hit on ranged touch attacks is also nice.

The lulz are also good. :D

Ok, so... no tiny humanoids anywhere. I guess that's that. BOOO.

Edit: Yes, gnome is a full caster. Wizard (Diviner) 6/Silverwood Arcanist 1

If I can't have Tiny, then can anyone recommend any Small forms with good 'alter self applicable' benefits? I can't afford to go Medium, cos I won't be able to ride my Dire Weasel any more... :D

[Sstoopidtallkid]

All of the aforementioned reasons.

More AC is always good. I don't think i need to explain that any further.

Stealth is good - said Gnome has a 'no ranks' Hide modifier of +11, and more is always nice. Our party is very stealth oriented, and i'm the only one in the group who doesn't have hide as a class skill, so i'm looking for little boosts here and there to 'keep up'.

Bonus to hit on ranged touch attacks is also nice.

The lulz are also good. :D

Ok, so... no tiny humanoids anywhere. I guess that's that. BOOO.There are ways to make Hide a class skill. The problem is that most cost a feat. Martial Study:Shadow Hand(ToB), the Apprentice line, and of course Able Learner which just makes it cheaper, not actually a class skill.

See if your DM will let you use another type. Say that you want to be able to be tiny, so would it be okay for you to count as something else for the purpose of Alter Self? Animal, Fey, Outsider, and Magical Beast all have Tiny or smaller forms in Core, and Alter Self could be refluffed to fit any of those. If he won't let you do that, there is a Faerun Feat to make you an Outsider(Otherworldly, PGtF) that you could take and gives various useful benefits, but would require okay from your DM since it doesn't work for any Gnomes.