[3.5] Rainbow Servant and other Brokenness

[mregecko]

Hey everyone -- I wanted to get opinions on these shenanigans and see if they are legal or not. I haven't been able to find any other threads regarding this...

So, if you read the text of the Rainbow Servant PrC from the Complete Divine, under the Spell Casting section, it indicates that you gain +1 spell casting for EVERY level of the PrC. This obviously contracdicts the table, but, as we all know, Text Trump Table, no?

If that's true... I'm thinking that my favorite build has become a Warmage -> Rainbow Servant 10 (finish it off with War Weaver). This means that you have the quantity of spells per day available to a Warmage, full spellcasting progression (except War Weaver 1), and SPONTANEOUS CASTING OF ALL CLERIC SPELLS. Furthermore, all of those delicious Cleric Spells can be cast into the Weave.

Having every cleric spell available spontaneously is ridiculous. You can have 4 Miracles a day with a 34 CHA. Your number of spells per day are: 9/9/9/9/8/8/8/7/4

I'm thinking of trying this out in a lvl 20 1-time session my friends and I are planning. I was thinking of taking as an (Improved) Cohort my (female) PC's dead husband, who wants to protect her from danger. He works out to be a:

LG Half-Celestial Ghost Paladin 4 / Marshal 1 / Monk 2 / Ephemeral Exemplar 3 [EphExemplar is from Libris Mortis, Incorporeal Undead PrC]

If I give him:
Gift of Grace (BoED Exalted, share Paladin save bonus with others)
Spurn Death's Touch (LM, heal ability dmg, paralysis, neg levels from undead with turn attempts)
Empowered Ability Damage (LM, 1.5* on ability drain or dmg)
Ghostly Grasp (use corporeal items)
Improved Turn Resistance (+4 TR)
Necrotic Reserve (When you reach 0 hitpoints, can perform an action then become "weakened")...

I can work him out to have a 40 CHA, for +15 to all saves, +15 to Init (dex checks), Draining Touch (with flurry of blows, for 1d4*1.5 ability drain), and a 43 Touch AC.

And he's incorporeal.

Any thoughts or additions to these monstrous duo?

-- Gecko

[Burley]

Hey everyone -- I wanted to get opinions on these shenanigans and see if they are legal or not. I haven't been able to find any other threads regarding this...

So, if you read the text of the Rainbow Servant PrC from the Complete Divine, under the Spell Casting section, it indicates that you gain +1 spell casting for EVERY level of the PrC. This obviously contracdicts the table, but, as we all know, Text Trump Table, no?

If that's true... I'm thinking that my favorite build has become a Warmage -> Rainbow Servant 10 (finish it off with War Weaver). This means that you have the quantity of spells per day available to a Warmage, full spellcasting progression (except War Weaver 1), and SPONTANEOUS CASTING OF ALL CLERIC SPELLS. Furthermore, all of those delicious Cleric Spells can be cast into the Weave.


Also, Beguiler works well, and Dread Necromancer, if I recall correctly.

[RMS Oceanic]

Read the sample RS in Complete Arcane. He's a Sorceror 6/RS 4, but only has 4th level spells. It's quite clear you're supposed to lose those caster levels.

[KevLar]

About the Rainbow Servant, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, but I'll leave the arguments to someone more experienced.

About the cohort:
Half-celestial ghost is illegal. Half-celestial changes your type to Outsider, and the Ghost template can't be applied to outsiders.

If you want to get silly (and I see you have no problem with that :smalltongue:), you can add a half-dragon there (which changes your type to dragon, but if I was your DM, that would make me scream - two inherited templates that both change your type? no way), or simply make a ghost with a few Evolved Undead templates to boost the cohort's charisma as much as you want. They stack.

Are you sure Touch AC is 41? It's 10 + Charisma + 3 from Ephemeral Exemplar (Deflection) + Dexterity + Wisdom from monk, right? Maybe you'd want a level of Battledancer, from DragonCompendium. It's a like a chaotic monk that gets Cha to AC instead of Wis (including Touch) and the monk's unarmed strike at first level. Sadly, no Flurry of Blows.

Suggested equipment: your ghost fears force effects. Get him a few humble Brooches of Shielding to soak up Magic Missiles and a humble pair of Anklets of Translocation, so he doesn't end up inside a forcecage. And boost the AC. He doesn't count as incorporeal Vs other incorporeal (or just ethereal) foes, so no miss chance there - and no deflection bonus.

[woodenbandman]

From Brilliantgameologists.com, it's quite common knowledge that this works. And it's awesome. But by the time you get it, you basically need it to compete with the other high power people anyway, and clerics have more tricks than you still (not by much, but still more), and besides, at the level you get this to work, you're pretty much untouchable if you're an optimized high power character.

So my opinion of this is that it's really brokenly overpowered, but legal, and a really awesome idea. I just love the idea of a character who can claim to be a cleric or a monk but is really mechanically a warmage or a barbarian.

[Jack_Simth]

Read the sample RS in Complete Arcane. He's a Sorceror 6/RS 4, but only has 4th level spells. It's quite clear you're supposed to lose those caster levels.
That's very much how it's intended to work. However, exactly as written, technically, per the errata for Complete Divine (right at the top, even!) Text Trumps Table. So despite the fact that the Rainbow Servant picks up special abilities at exactly the levels that it doesn't advance spellcasting, and despite the fact that everywhere other than the spellcasting entry for the PrC it's a partial spellcasting class, technically, because the text trumps the table, it's a full progression PrC, exactly as written.

Of course, as written, the DM is supposed to tightly control the availability of prestige classes (check the DMG preface for the PrC's), so who cares? It's not a house-rule for the DM to ban a PrC. Any PrC. Or even to make his own.

[Frosty]

Would a warmage become overpowered like this?

[jcsw]

Would a warmage become overpowered like this?

Yes. Remember why wizards are called batman? Because they can prepare for anything? Well this doesn't have to prepare, it already has all the right spells due to having such a huge spell list, sure they don't get Wizard spells (which are generally better), but if he's going into a buffer role, the cleric spells tend to be better as you can make your allies immune to whatever the enemy is throwing you.

[Jack_Simth]

Yes. Remember why wizards are called batman? Because they can prepare for anything? Well this doesn't have to prepare, it already has all the right spells due to having such a huge spell list, sure they don't get Wizard spells (which are generally better), but if he's going into a buffer role, the cleric spells tend to be better as you can make your allies immune to whatever the enemy is throwing you.
Blindness/Deafness. Chain Spell. Wall of Stone. While the Cleric doesn't get quite as much in the way of "I negate you", the Cleric does get it. When you use a Warmage or Beguiler base, the Rainbow Servant gets rather over-strong when it hits the capstone.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The spellcasting text of Rainbow Servant (and Sacred Fist) is just a sloppy copy-paste job that they didn't properly proofread, just like most of the rest of Complete Divine. Every single foreign translation of that book has text that matches the table's progression, rather than repeating the same misprint as they put in the English version. It is clear that their intent was for it to give spellcasting by what the table's progression shows, rather than according to the prestige class text template that they copied in and forgot to change. Any DM who allows you to take that class with full spellcasting doesn't deserve to be DMing in the first place. Any player who tries to coerce their DM into allowing that class with full spellcasting is a munchkin/cheater.

Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer with Rainbow Servant or an adaptation (Phoenix is a favorite) are just great. Take the feat Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon and you can still get 9th level spells.

[Innis Cabal]

No sane DM would let it slide. RAW dosn't matter. DM sensibiliy does.

[Blood_Lord]

The spellcasting text of Rainbow Servant (and Sacred Fist) is just a sloppy copy-paste job that they didn't properly proofread, just like most of the rest of Complete Divine. Every single foreign translation of that book has text that matches the table's progression, rather than repeating the same misprint as they put in the English version. It is clear that their intent was for it to give spellcasting by what the table's progression shows, rather than according to the prestige class text template that they copied in and forgot to change. Any DM who allows you to take that class with full spellcasting doesn't deserve to be DMing in the first place. Any player who tries to coerce their DM into allowing that class with full spellcasting is a munchkin/cheater.

Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer with Rainbow Servant or an adaptation (Phoenix is a favorite) are just great. Take the feat Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon and you can still get 9th level spells.

1) Some people play in high powered campaigns with DMM Persist Clerics and Incantatrixes, it fits in just find there, except underpowered for the first 15 levels.

2) They have this thing called errata, if they wanted to correct it, they could.

3) You are absolutely wrong on the foreign translations. I believe the Portuguese has 10/10 in text and table. Many others have the text at 10, and the table at 6 as in the English.

[Thurbane]

Any DM who allows you to take that class with full spellcasting doesn't deserve to be DMing in the first place. Any player who tries to coerce their DM into allowing that class with full spellcasting is a munchkin/cheater.
Testify! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, you are correct. If something is a painfully obvious typo, exploiting that in a cheesy build is just poor form all around. It's not a far stretch to The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters (http://home.netcom.com/~rogermw/ADnD/IUDC1.html)...

[Maerok]

Also, Beguiler works well, and Dread Necromancer, if I recall correctly.

It's sure to diversify the latter's color palette, at the very least. :smallsmile: I could see a DN 6/RS X as a follower of that goddess from LM that isn't all gloom and doom.

How does the capstone ability work for Sorcerers, Dreads, and Beguilers?

[Tomada]

1) Some people play in high powered campaigns with DMM Persist Clerics and Incantatrixes, it fits in just find there, except underpowered for the first 15 levels.

2) They have this thing called errata, if they wanted to correct it, they could.

3) You are absolutely wrong on the foreign translations. I believe the Portuguese has 10/10 in text and table. Many others have the text at 10, and the table at 6 as in the English.

You're correct in that portuguese has it as 10/10 in text and table. Which is just silly.

[jcsw]

Any player who tries to coerce their DM into allowing that class with full spellcasting is a munchkin/cheater.

Munchkin yes, cheater, no.

[Starscream]

It's sure to diversify the latter's color palette, at the very least. :smallsmile: I could see a DN 6/RS X as a follower of that goddess from LM that isn't all gloom and doom.

You mean Evening Glory? Nah, a proper "perky goth" would worship a goddess similar to Death of the Endless. We need a D&D version of her.

[Starsinger]

It's sure to diversify the latter's color palette, at the very least. :smallsmile: I could see a DN 6/RS X as a follower of that goddess from LM that isn't all gloom and doom.

How does the capstone ability work for Sorcerers, Dreads, and Beguilers?

For the latter? the same. For Sorcerers? Awful. It adds it to the list of spells a Sorcerer can choose from at level up.

[Fizban]

How does the capstone ability work for Sorcerers, Dreads, and Beguilers?

Warmages, Dread Necros, and Beguilers all know all the spells on their class list automatically, so adding all cleric spells to that means they know all cleric spells. Sorcerers pick their known spells from their class list (Sorcerer/Wizard), and so can pick cleric spells when learning new spells, but don't gain any extra spells known. Ironically, if it weren't for the Warmages/Necros/Beguilers, the class would be just fine with the text over the table, since gaining access to the "chump list" when you've already got sor/wiz spells isn't worth losing spellcasting.

In a similar vein, what are people's thoughts on the Exalted Arcanist? It loses 2 levels of casting, if I remember correctly, but gains all exalted spells as spells known at 5th level (even for Sorcerers). The exalted list isn't exactly a powerhouse, but it's still quite a few spells known, and you get bonus spells known at 1st level too.

[Thurbane]

In a similar vein, what are people's thoughts on the Exalted Arcanist? It loses 2 levels of casting, if I remember correctly, but gains all exalted spells as spells known at 5th level (even for Sorcerers). The exalted list isn't exactly a powerhouse, but it's still quite a few spells known, and you get bonus spells known at 1st level too.
Sand Shaper has similar, adding a lot of spells to the characters list. It also gets Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace as 1st level spells! :smalleek: AFAIK, you can get them though a 1 level dip. At least Sand Shaper has the good grace to lose two caster levels over 10.

[Maerok]

Warmage 6/RS 10/SS 1

You'll be CL 12 (16 with Practiced Spellcasting) and a ton of spells to cast spontaneously.

[UserClone]

Wow, thanks for making me notice the Sandshaper! That is one of the coolest classes I have ever seen, bar none!:smallsmile: