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firgadin
2008-12-18, 07:32 PM
Okay, I'm brand new to Dungeons & Dragons; never played a game, nor do I really now the rules for it. I'm planning on DMing for a bunch of my friends that also have never played, but I can only buy one of the core books right now, so which one should I get to get a good head start on understanding the game and being a DM. I always hear that the Player's Handbook details all the rules, but obviously, the Dungeon Master's Guide would help me out as far as DMing, so...which one?

Overlord Nicy
2008-12-18, 07:43 PM
Player's Handbook. That is where the rules are.

monty
2008-12-18, 07:44 PM
Most of the stuff from the PHB can be found in the SRD, so I'd go with the DMG.

Hey boys and girls, it's acronym time!


...unless you're playing 4E, in which case I have no idea.

Malacode
2008-12-18, 07:45 PM
Well, really you need both... but you can probably just get away with the DMG and stick with the Online SRD (d20 SRD dot com, or D&D Wiki are useful) A Monster Manual would be handy as well, unless you're planning on an RP-only campaign (In which case, bugger the rules)

firgadin
2008-12-18, 07:54 PM
yeah, I'll eventually get the other core books, but I'll check out this SRD, thanks

TheCountAlucard
2008-12-18, 09:23 PM
Well, really you need both... but you can probably just get away with the DMG and stick with the Online SRD (d20 SRD dot com, or D&D Wiki are useful) A Monster Manual would be handy as well, unless you're planning on an RP-only campaign (In which case, bugger the rules)

Sorry to be nitpicky, but it's dot org.

Anyway, if you've already found a gaming group, there'll probably be enough PHBs to go around, and if there aren't, there's still the SRD. Nonetheless, getting the PHB is still not a bad idea.

Of course, if you're intending to DM, all three of the core books are needed.

TheEmerged
2008-12-18, 09:24 PM
...unless you're playing 4E, in which case I have no idea.

For 4E, get the Player's Guide first -- period, end of sentence, end of discussion :smallbiggrin: It contains all the rules you'll need, and 70-80 of the rules you'll want.

Have you ever DM'd/GM'd a roleplaying game before? If so, the second purchase should be the 4e Monster Manual. The 4E DMG is a nice purchase but by no means required unless you're new to DMing/GMing. There is a sample adventure in the 4e DMG you may find a useful learning experience -- I am *extremely* glad I self-tested that adventure three times before I tried it with players.

-------------------------------

To rate later 4e purchases...

Unless you're planning to run your campaign in the Forgotten Realms, skip the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide -- there is literally NOTHING in there you need outside of the FR. Similarly, the Manual of the Planes is of minimal use unless you're planning to make the planes a big part of your campaign or plan to use it for a lot of flavor.

The Forgotten Realm Player's Guide, on the other hand, has some nice material. The swordmage class and genasi race for example graduated directly to my campaign world. You may have also heard about those drow things :smallredface: They also introduce us to the 'background bonus' mechanics, and it is pretty easy to backward-engineer the core system used to create them. It also gives us a better picture of how languages are going to work under 4e.

The Adventurer's Vault was actually a bit of a disappointment. Can't recommend it unless you've got money to burn or don't feel the magic items in the Player's Guide gave you enough of an idea how magic items work now.

Martial Power, in my less-than-humble opinion, should be either the 3rd or 4th 4e book you buy. Yes, if you're familiar with DMing/GMing you should buy Martial Power before you buy the DMG :smallredface:

Now, WotC has been pushing the modules but frankly I don't buy them so I can't comment on them beyond my standing policy that they're usually an inefficient purchase.

firgadin
2008-12-18, 10:22 PM
Hmmm...would it probably be a better idea to try and join a group as a player first?

esorscher
2008-12-18, 10:38 PM
If you're doing 3.5, try and get the starter kit. It had a copy of the player's handbook, a sample adventure, and miniatures, and it costs about the same I believe.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953927200

monty
2008-12-18, 11:14 PM
Of course, if you're intending to DM, all three of the core books are needed.

Actually, I've found that I can get by reasonably without any of the books. The DMG is mostly fluff and the majority of the PHB and MM are in the SRD.


Hmmm...would it probably be a better idea to try and join a group as a player first?

If possible, yes.

Grynning
2008-12-18, 11:22 PM
Hmmm...would it probably be a better idea to try and join a group as a player first?

Yes, it would. However, if you can't find a group that's already going and just want to give it a try with your friends, WotC does sell a 4th edition "starter kit" that comes with dice, tiles and some pre-made stuff that basically lets you play one adventure without having to buy all the books. Granted, if you're pretty sure you'd eventually buy all the books anyways, it's just an extra 16 bucks you've spent, but if you're not sure about whether you want to invest in 4th ed, I'd recommend it.

LoopyZebra
2008-12-18, 11:42 PM
Additionally, there is a 3.5 Basic Set, which is equivalent to the one Grynning mentioned. Personally, I'd get 4th, but it's a matter of taste. I would also recommend against trying to go solely off the SRD; its a reference, not a rulebook, and loses all the text that makes things learnable.

Kroy
2008-12-19, 12:14 AM
I would also recommend against trying to go solely off the SRD; its a reference, not a rulebook, and loses all the text that makes things learnable.

Seconded. I personally believe 3.5 is better, though it's a matter of opinion.

Egiam
2008-12-19, 01:43 PM
THIS:
http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Roleplaying-Starter-Introductory/dp/0786948205/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229712142&sr=8-1

ChaosDefender24
2008-12-19, 01:45 PM
Seconded. I personally believe 3.5 is better, though it's a matter of opinion.

please don't

I'd get the core books like everyone else said. It's easy for everyone to use the SRD once they know what's going on, but until then you're looking at blocks of statistics with names like "behir" and "eldritch knight" instead of creatures and characters

After that I'd go with the Book of Vile Darkness because it makes any campaign memorable.

EDIT: But become well-acquainted with your rules first, Gorbash is right

Gorbash
2008-12-19, 01:54 PM
Yes, but that's 3.0 material, and that makes it only more complicating for begginers.

firgadin
2008-12-19, 02:16 PM
I hear that the 4th edition isn't that great, and that 3.5 is better, but none of the local shops have it, they're all sold out, so...

ChaosDefender24
2008-12-19, 02:27 PM
I think all the 3.5's are out of print. Use your bookstore's used books option/eBay

mikej
2008-12-19, 02:28 PM
I hear that the 4th edition isn't that great, and that 3.5 is better, but none of the local shops have it, they're all sold out, so...

I don't usually recommend it but seeing you have little choice, my suggestion is that a lot of the 3.5 books are available in PDF downloads. I have all of them on one disk, of course I still own a few books ( like my Faiths of Ebberon, scare people with the Planar Shepherd ) and SRD soo I'am very well supplied

Artanis
2008-12-19, 02:46 PM
I hear that the 4th edition isn't that great, and that 3.5 is better, but none of the local shops have it, they're all sold out, so...
If you ask ten people how good 4e is compared to 3.5, you'll get ten different answers, with five being some degree of "4e is better" while five are some degree of "3.5 is better".

Long story short, don't believe what you hear, one way or the other.

Tempest Fennac
2008-12-19, 02:52 PM
If I'm honest, I'd recommend against BoVD (and the Book of Exhaulted Deeds) due to classing the fluff for both of them to be poor (and I don;t think either of them add much of anything to games).

ChaosDefender24
2008-12-19, 03:09 PM
The fluff is awful, yes. But the crunch is amazing. In particular, the spells are masterfully done. Hit a PC with one of them and it will be a day to remembered. When the 1st-level party runs into a skeleton that makes the fighter's eyeballs explode, and when the person who tripped the door trap starts decomposing, it's so cool. The prestige classes are very hit-or-miss, but at their best they are terrific. I think the soul eater is the most amazing thing ever to happen to D&D; it's great for DMs because you can give almost anything energy drain and adjust its power level based on the number of natural attacks the creature has (vampire energy drain gets stupid when you're level 14), and in high-powered campaign it can make for some hilarious builds. The fluff is cool, too

Zeta Kai
2008-12-19, 03:12 PM
If I'm honest, I'd recommend against BoVD (and the Book of Exhaulted Deeds) due to classing the fluff for both of them to be poor (and I don;t think either of them add much of anything to games).

I'm highly inclined to disagree with you there. The BOVD & the BOED are both great books, in my opinion.

However, they are not crucial to play, so they do not pertain to this discussion. You're best off getting the PHB, DMG, & the MM. That goes for either edition. You can just homebrew the rest, really.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-19, 03:15 PM
I think all the 3.5's are out of print. Use your bookstore's used books option/eBay Amazon.com has lots of used books available, too. I think at least the last dozen 3.5 books I bought were used, and bought via Amazon.

monty
2008-12-19, 03:18 PM
In particular, the spells are masterfully done. Hit a PC with one of them and it will be a day to remembered.

Two words: Mind Rape.

Tempest Fennac
2008-12-19, 03:20 PM
I can never look through BoED without killing brain cells (it's beyond me how half of that has anything to do with playing a good character intelligently). BoVD is just way too over-the-top for me as well. I tend not to like dark games, so those spells, as well as energy drain, aren't really the sort of thing I like (I think the fact that my inns have vegetarian options and free tooth paste sums up how gritty my campaign world is :smalltongue:).

rubycona
2008-12-19, 05:26 PM
Honestly, my best suggestion is this:

{Scrubbed} I know, it's technically stealing and all that, {Scrubbed}

If you want an absolutely awesome 3.5 online reference, try http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html

{Scrubbed}

Good luck :) I'd also recommend, even if you can't actually Play a D&D game, go find someone who plays and at least watch a game through. Get a feel for combat. Maybe the DM will let you play as one of the monsters if there's no room for a player. Your local game store is very likely to know of some game going somewhere nearby.

Edit: A final note, to actually answer your question, I'd say, for 4.0 Player's Handbook and luck, and for 3.5 I'd say the DMG + online resources, of which there is plenty, since the System Reference Document link has virtually all of the 3.5 Player Handbook on it. An important note is that the Experience tables are not legal to share, so you'd have to get them some other way.

Waspinator
2008-12-19, 11:28 PM
For 3.5, the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide are the big ones. With those, you can handle player characters and humanoid enemies. The Monster Manual would be needed to really handle more monstrous enemies, but that's not necessary for every campaign plus those are relatively easy to get from the SRD.

The SRD is fine if you're already familiar with the rules and just want to look something up, but it's really bad for a "sit down and read through it" guide to the game, which the books are.

Aaronski
2008-12-20, 10:49 AM
Everything in the DMG, PHB and MM (with a few exceptions - mostly fluff) is in the SRD. But the SRD is a very, very bland document. Its purpose is outlined in its name - it's a reference.


The PHB is the corest of the cores. You need it. It has the rules.

The DMG is for creating campaigns, adding fluff and assorted miscellany.

The MM is for populating your campaigns.


To DM, you need all three, but the PHB is the most important.

As to the question of which edition is better, it is indeed a personal preference thing. 3.5e is a venerable system which is all about glorious minutiae and literally infinite options for anything, traits which are reinforced by the vast amounts of material available for it. 4e is a newer system which glosses over a lot of the minutiae so as not to slow the game down to much (IMHO, anyway). Try them both. 4e is easier to learn, but I find 3.5 more rewarding (because I'm obsessive-compulsive, probably :smalltongue:)


{Scrubbed}

Good luck :) I'd also recommend, even if you can't actually Play a D&D game, go find someone who plays and at least watch a game through. Get a feel for combat. Maybe the DM will let you play as one of the monsters if there's no room for a player. Your local game store is very likely to know of some game going somewhere nearby.

Edit: A final note, to actually answer your question, I'd say, for 4.0 Player's Handbook and luck, and for 3.5 I'd say the DMG + online resources, of which there is plenty, since the System Reference Document link has virtually all of the 3.5 Player Handbook on it. An important note is that the Experience tables are not legal to share, so you'd have to get them some other way.

{Scrubbed}

You could also luck out if your local library has the books, though this is a pretty remote possibility. {Scrubbed}

Also also, don't post the same thread twice. I'm guessing it was accidental and you don't even know that you've done it, so I'm in-before-ing the curmudgeons who'll yell at you.

lisiecki
2008-12-20, 12:20 PM
Also, Run a small child down in a parking lot
Illegal yes
but ill be dammed if it isnt fun.
Try to go for one with a sibling,
The one problem with my plan is, you dont get to hear the kid cry

Waspinator
2008-12-20, 07:11 PM
You might look into Pathfinder. It's basically a variant of 3.5 being developed by Paizo to allow them to continue their current product lines without going 4.0. The final rulebook is not out yet and will cost money, but the Beta is available for free.