Elves, elves, and more elves.

[Chrono22]

It's always irked me that there are so many elf varients. These are beings that can live to be 300 years old, and don't mature until 100. It makes no sense at all, that there are so many different kinds. A race as long lived as elves couldn't possibly have so many offshoots, even if the changes were radical, from generation to generation.
Anyway, let's list off every published elf subrace ever made for dnd.

1. Elf
2. Wood Elf
3. High Elf
4. Drow
5. Aquatic Elf
6. Shoal Elf
7. Avariel
8. Snow Elf
9. Harrow Elf
10. Green Elf
11. Lythari Elf
12. Dark Elf
13. Star Elf
14. Ghost Elf
15. Painted Elf
16. Gray Elf

Post more as you think of them.

[Aricandor]

Do the thingies in Unearthed Arcana count? Where every race subjected to the cruel "Arctic/Desert/Jungle... <race>" treatment?

Or fire elf?

[Aneantir]

1. Elf
3. High Elf

Last time I checked, the traditional elves ARE the high elves.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I always thought elf races weren't subspecies, but rather were a mix of culture/race that led to different abilities for some. If the elf grows up in the jungle as part of a tribe, of course he'll be stronger and dumber than a standard elf. That said:

17. Fire Elves
18. Aquatic Elves
19. Arctic Elves
20. Desert Elves
21. Jungle Elves

[Malacode]

Moon and Sun elves, can't forget them. I'll edit if I remember more

Edit: I think the Sun Elves are the D&D version of High Elves, as they're taller than normal ones, and have the whole radiant beauty thing, with the golden skin and all (IIRC)

[Leon]

Wild Elf There is no text here

[Naleh]

25. Eladrin

[Innis Cabal]

Where are Shoal Elves found?

[SurlySeraph]

Here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10002276) It's a list of all standard playable races.

Amusingly, there are actually more varieties of dwarves than of elves.


It's always irked me that there are so many elf varients. These are beings that can live to be 300 years old, and don't mature until 100. It makes no sense at all, that there are so many different kinds. A race as long lived as elves couldn't possibly have so many offshoots, even if the changes were radical, from generation to generation.

You're not the first one to think of that. But someone thought of a solution.


http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-681572.htm][/url] The individual elf is a fine adventurer, blessed with many attributes that make them well suited to a life of killing monsters for their hard-earned possessions. They are extremely long-lived, quick of eye and reflexes, and blessed with the kind of training that comes from a childhood that spans decades. With all of these benefits, one wonders why they don’t rule the world.

The answer is simple: they have a secret. That secret is that elves, as a race, are the pawns of powerful wizards. Just as powerful wizards have taken the heads of giant owls and put them on the bodies of bears, some wizards in the far past decided “hey, lets make a race that’s hot, skinny, and long-lived enough to learn to really please me.” The end result is a race whose favored class is Wizard, a class requiring study and materials. As engineered servants of powerful wizards, they mystically have the ability to learn their master’s arts. The influence of the overlord wizards is the explanation for the variation in the subraces of elves: height, skin coloration, racial abilities, and physical and mental attributes are shaped by the overlords to suit their favored environment and tastes in beauty. Wild elves are physically powerful but dim, while snow elves are hardy but racially arrogant and haughty, and this all stems from the tastes of their wizard overlords in the past. Art and music is encouraged among the young because it makes them more attractive to their overlords.

[ivendale]

Elves have aids...

For those of you who get this referenc, a cokie.

[Lert, A.]

Elves have aids...

For those of you who get this referenc, a cokie.

So, pool's closed?

[Naleh]

Here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10002276) It's a list of all standard playable races.

Amusingly, there are actually more varieties of dwarves than of elves.

Ah, I was looking for that.

[AslanCross]

Where are Shoal Elves found?

Shoal Elves are one of the two aquatic elf races in Dragonlance. I forget if they're the Dimernesti or the Dargonesti, but yeah. DL has two such races. One lives deeper than the other.

I personally prefer the elves in Eberron. The elves are not really recognized by genetics but by culture. The only "subspecies" are the Drow, and they don't have the confusing CE-but-really-LE society in Menzoberranzan. <_<

[SoD]

It's always irked me that there are so many elf varients. These are beings that can live to be 300 years old, and don't mature until 100. It makes no sense at all, that there are so many different kinds. A race as long lived as elves couldn't possibly have so many offshoots, even if the changes were radical, from generation to generation.

Actually, they can live to 1000 years old[/nitpick]

[newbDM]

It's always irked me that there are so many elf varients. These are beings that can live to be 300 years old, and don't mature until 100. It makes no sense at all, that there are so many different kinds. A race as long lived as elves couldn't possibly have so many offshoots, even if the changes were radical, from generation to generation.
Anyway, let's list off every published elf subrace ever made for dnd.

1. Elf
2. Wood Elf
3. High Elf
4. Drow
5. Aquatic Elf
6. Shoal Elf
7. Avariel
8. Snow Elf
9. Harrow Elf
10. Green Elf
11. Lythari Elf
12. Dark Elf
13. Star Elf
14. Ghost Elf
15. Painted Elf
16. Gray Elf

Post more as you think of them.


Dude, there are practically as many dwarf subraces as elven ones. It is just that it is mentioned less by the elf haters.

Here is a complete list of the LA+0 playable races from official WotC and Paizo/Dragon/Dungeon sources:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=697653


edit:
If I am counting correctly, I believe there is actual one more dwarf subrace than elven subraces. There are just about as many gnome subraces, and close to as many human ones.

So jeez people, it is not that there are "more" of them, they are just more popular among a larger portion of D&D players.

[Aneantir]

Dude, there are practically as many dwarf subraces as elven ones. It is just that it is mentioned less by the elf haters.

Here is a complete list of the LA+0 playable races from official WotC and Paizo/Dragon/Dungeon sources:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=697653

There are more dwarf subraces, actually, as was already mentioned by SurlySeraph earlier in this thread.

[m4x0r]

Ghost Elves

[newbDM]

There are more dwarf subraces, actually, as was already mentioned by SurlySeraph earlier in this thread.

Thanks, I should have finished the thread before mentioning that. I just did not think someone would have posted the same archived WotC thread I did. Sorry.

[bosssmiley]

Here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10002276) It's a list of all standard playable races.

Amusingly, there are actually more varieties of dwarves than of elves.

But only three types of Dwarves actually matter: standard Dwarves, Pratchett-style Deep Dwarves, and Duergar. Everything else is just tribalism based on fashions in beard braiding. :smallwink:

As for Elves: geographically-morphic bipedal cockroaches the lot of 'em. :smalltongue:

[Kurald Galain]

What bothers me is not so much that there are five bazillion different kinds of elves out there (after all, if you think about it, we have a ton of different kinds of human on this planet), but that pretty much each of them has different rules and bonuses associated with it, making it both confusing and a munchkin's dream.

Imagine a group of <foo> elves with protest signs in front of the WOTC headquarters, protesting the inherent racism in listing their race with a -2 to wisdom in the <bar> handbook...

[mikej]

Elves have aids...

For those of you who get this referenc, a cokie.

Sounds very familiar to the video D&D PHB PSA, Elves vs Dwarves: Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrLMob39qI)

Elven subraces are like the Baskin Rubbins of D&D, choose from a wide selection of similiar races

[Tempest Fennac]

Regarding their maturity, Races of the Wild ret-conned what the PHB says by claiming that they only take that long to decide to start adventuring (they are really classed as Adults at 25).

[kamikasei]

What bothers me is not so much that there are five bazillion different kinds of elves out there (after all, if you think about it, we have a ton of different kinds of human on this planet), but that pretty much each of them has different rules and bonuses associated with it, making it both confusing and a munchkin's dream.

Imagine a group of <foo> elves with protest signs in front of the WOTC headquarters, protesting the inherent racism in listing their race with a -2 to wisdom in the <bar> handbook...

Yes indeed, the "well they're just different cultures/environments granting different bonuses" argument kind of breaks down when you stop to ask "hang on - what about all the different nations and cultures of humans spread over the world?"

[bosssmiley]

Yes indeed, the "well they're just different cultures/environments granting different bonuses" argument kind of breaks down when you stop to ask "hang on - what about all the different nations and cultures of humans spread over the world?"

"Birthright" actually did this for their five major human cultures (typify them as Feudalia, Vikings, The Hanse, Araby, and The Mounted Hordes). People really did live up to their national stereotypes to the extent it affected their stats, skills options, cultural weapons and likelihood of inheriting different bloodlines.

This is the same setting that had Dwarves made of stone, racist atheist Elves, an entire species of Halfling shadowdancers and non-colour-coded dragons.

It rocked.

[newbDM]

{Scrubbed}

[Talya]

Various races of humans would have different physical (we won't get into mental) statistical averages if accurately modeled in RPG stats. Game companies just wisely avoid opening the door to the cries of racism that would result if they did so.

There are no real life elves or dwarves to protest.

[Kurald Galain]

{Scrubbed}
Heh. This would be fun to discuss at length in another thread, if not for its obvious flamewar potential.
Whoever invented Buddhism deserves a +Wis. Whoever wins the Olympic gymnastics deserves a +Dex.


Again, what about the other large number of subraces for other races?
Same thing, of course. What bothers me is not the large amount thereof, but that they all have different mechanics. Except for humans, of course.

[Kris Strife]

There are no real life elves or dwarves to protest.

The NAELP would like to disagree.

[Project_Mayhem]

{scrubbed}

How dare you sir. Her Majesty's royal navy have been sent out to rectify your mistake.

[Telonius]

Here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=10002276) It's a list of all standard playable races.

Amusingly, there are actually more varieties of dwarves than of elves.



You're not the first one to think of that. But someone thought of a solution.

An alternate hypothesis was that Elves work on Lamarckian, rather than Darwinian, evolution. With the proper divinations, this could work.

[Bayar]

Star elves.

[Talya]

Star Elves (-2 con, +2 cha) are outsiders, which gives them more of an excuse. Not born of prime material. There's no greater mutation catalyst than magic (which in general also helps explain the massive variety of sentient races in D&D.)

[PurinaDragonCho]

{Scrubbed}

{Scrubbed}

[Talya]

But the British Empire wasn't something upon which the sun never set


I never liked that analogy. I tend to think more that the sun was always setting on the British Empire. (Somewhere, anyway.)

[PurinaDragonCho]

I never liked that analogy. I tend to think more that the sun was always setting on the British Empire. (Somewhere, anyway.)

Ah, but the sun also rises.

[Satyr]

{Scrubbed}

[Kurald Galain]

{Scrubbed}
How shall I put this... this is really not the stereotype of Americans, where I live.

Hm, I just noticed that Wikipedia has numerous articles on "<ethnic> stereotypes within America", but I can't find any on the reverse thereof. Oh well.

Possible "reading" material: Any "The Simpsons Go To <insert country here>" episode :smalltongue:

[Simanos]

Sounds very familiar to the video D&D PHB PSA, Elves vs Dwarves: Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrLMob39qI)

Elven subraces are like the Baskin Rubbins of D&D, choose from a wide selection of similiar races
I thought he was referening a Southpark episode...
(a guy has 2 aids helping him, not HIV AIDS)

[Zeful]

There are no real life elves or dwarves to protest.

Micheal Jackson would like to disagree.

[Lappy9000]

Don't forget Plaid Elves, Monochromatic Elves, and Anaerobic Elves.

[Telonius]

{Scrubbed} And Michael Phelps is the aquatic subtype.

Nah, Phelps is just a Were-Dolphin. He was in his intermediate form for most of the Olympics.

[newbDM]

{Scrubbed} And Michael Phelps is the aquatic subtype.

Dude, this gives me an idea for a very interesting campaign setting. :smallbiggrin:

[Rockphed]

Heh. This would be fun to discuss at length in another thread, if not for its obvious flamewar potential.
Whoever invented Buddhism deserves a +Wis. Whoever wins the Olympic gymnastics deserves a +Dex.


Same thing, of course. What bothers me is not the large amount thereof, but that they all have different mechanics. Except for humans, of course.

Did you miss the 10 different subraces of human in that list? Most of them looked pretty much the same, but there were still 10 of them.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: If you ever want to get a thread locked really fast, post racist stereotypes, especially those that impugn the attributes of entire races. (And no, I'm not going to entertain debates about what is racist vs. nationalist.)

Please keep this discussion away from real world racial or national attributes.

[AKA_Bait]

An alternate hypothesis was that Elves work on Lamarckian, rather than Darwinian, evolution. With the proper divinations, this could work.

You know, as I think on it, it would be a really interesting idea to have all racial groups in a setting be that way with the agent of change being divinity, magic or both. Essentially, the idea is this: every humaniod race started out human. Cultures frevently hoping for children with x characteristics have the effect, over a few generations, of acting like a wish spell and actually adding inherent bonuses or pluses. Alternativley (or using both) gods can do it as well. I.e. Thor decides that the next generation of his worshipers will be shorter and have +2 str and poof, one step closer in lamarkian evolotuion from humans to dwarves.

[Talya]

Various races of humans would have different physical (we won't get into mental) statistical averages if accurately modeled in RPG stats. Game companies just wisely avoid opening the door to the cries of racism that would result if they did so.

There are no real life elves or dwarves to protest.


Case in point...


Sheriff of Moddingham: If you ever want to get a thread locked really fast, post racist stereotypes, especially those that impugn the attributes of entire races. (And no, I'm not going to entertain debates about what is racist vs. nationalist.)

Please keep this discussion away from real world racial or national attributes.

...not that I disagree with the Sheriff. It just seems the game companies and the Giant's forums have the same view in this regard. ;)

[Kurald Galain]

You know, as I think on it, it would be a really interesting idea to have all racial groups in a setting be that way with the agent of change being divinity, magic or both. Essentially, the idea is this: every humaniod race started out human.

Shadow Run does that. It has tall and skinny humans (which they call elves), broad and tough humans (which they call trolls) and so forth.

[Matthew]

Conan D20 presents multiple human races with various advantages and disadvantages. Cimmerians get +2 strength and −2 to intelligence. Given the fairly clear analogues to real world races, it always struck me as an interesting exception.

[Satyr]

I am concerned that my post from yesterday could have been misunderstood as a a racist slight; that was never my intend and if it had offended anyone I want to express my honest apology for it.
I though of it as an obviously bad joke without any intend to offend, or hurt; if this was not made clear enough, I am deeply sorry.

[Totally Guy]

Santa has Elves too, they are differentc from D&D elves.

[Kurald Galain]

Santa has Elves too, they are differentc from D&D elves.

Santa Elves have +2 dex, -2 int, and a huge bonus on craft skills.