Elan won't stop hogging the spotlight

[itsmeyouidiot]

Elan and Haley. The hooked up. They got separated. They took over the comic.

I know what you're saying right now. You like them. But have you noticed how they seem to dominate every scene they're in?

Whatever happened to sharing the spotlight? The Greysky City ark is pretty good with giving the other characters time on panel, but it's still pretty obviously a way to get Haley's backstory a bit fleshed out, while giving us a good reason to buy your "Orgin of Personal Computers" book. (The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it. I'm suprised I haven't been sued into oblivion yet.) And lampshading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0580.html) it doesn't help one bit. The story's about her, and how she had to deal with her own guild. It really says something that if she hadn't followed Celia there, none of this would have happened.

Elan is worse. Ever since it was implied that he'll be the only one to get a happy ending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html), I've grown absolutly sick of him. (Maybe it's something to do with being a bard; they've always been kinda wussy and obnoxious in my eyes.) I want the other characters to get something too, dammit! More Durkon, more V, More Roy (a.k.a the person I've always felt is supposed to be the main character), and don't kill off Belkar. The Oracle should be wrong occasionally, and I've always felt that future predictions shouldn't be 100% accurate. Why do all my favorite characters in works of fiction get killed off? It's just like Serenity all over again (oh come on, you knew someone was gong to get killed off in that movie.) He utterly dominates every comic he appears in. I barely saw anything going on with the others during the Island ark, and that stupid love triangle didn't help.

I know this seems like trolling, but I just want to be reassured. I, Shirley, am not the only one who feels this way, and I just want to share my opinion and hear what you think.

[Kish]

Elan and Haley. The hooked up. They got separated. They took over the comic.

I know what you're saying right now. You like them. But have you noticed how they seem to dominate every scene they're in?

Whatever happened to sharing the spotlight? The Greysky City ark is pretty good with giving the other characters time on panel, but it's still pretty obviously a way to get Haley's backstory a bit fleshed out, while giving us a good reason to buy your "Orgin of Personal Computers" book. (The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it. I'm suprised I haven't been sued into oblivion yet.) And lampshading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0580.html) it doesn't help one bit. The story's about her, and how she had to deal with her own guild. It really says something that if she hadn't followed Celia there, none of this would have happened.

Elan is worse. Ever since it was implied that he'll be the only one to get a happy ending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html), I've grown absolutly sick of him. (Maybe it's something to do with being a bard; they've always been kinda wussy and obnoxious in my eyes.) I want the other characters to get something too, dammit! More Durkon, more V, More Roy (a.k.a the person I've always felt is supposed to be the main character), and don't kill off Belkar. The Oracle should be wrong occasionally, and I've always felt that future predictions shouldn't be 100% accurate. Why do all my favorite characters in works of fiction get killed off? It's just like Serenity all over again (oh come on, you knew someone was gong to get killed off in that movie.) He utterly dominates every comic he appears in. I barely saw anything going on with the others during the Island ark, and that stupid love triangle didn't help.

I know this seems like trolling, but I just want to be reassured. I, Shirley, am not the only one who feels this way, and I just want to share my opinion and hear what you think.
1) It was not implied that Elan would be the only one to get a happy ending. Gaah. "Yes--for you, at least" means, "Yes, for you. Not for everyone. Not, for example, for Xykon. Probably not for Belkar. Rich doesn't want to tell you whether the story ends happily for anyone else." Why do so many people seem to think it means, "For you and only you and horribly for everyone else"? If you had had a week to think about the answer between Elan asking the question and the Oracle answering it, would you have expected Rich to announce to the audience then and there that whatever happened from then on, nothing permanently bad would happen to any member of the Order, or any other good person? If you answered "yes" to the question I just asked, are you continually confused by all the fiction you read?

2) Just as good a case could be made that Vaarsuvius or Belkar dominates the comic. A better one could be made for Roy. (Durkon, not so much, usually.)

[Lord]

On the case of Elan I would say he is guilty of second degree plot hogging. I felt the Therkla thing was rather annoying, and, to a certain degree, cliche'd. Don't get me wrong Therkla was a decent character, but in the end I feel it could have been done better. However I feel that Elan is getting far to much spotlight. He's already had two crash-through-a-window scenes in short order. Give someone else a chance to shine.
However I feel that I must disagree with you on the part of Haley. The current developments are actually all Celia's fault, and I think it is a well done sequence in which everyone shines equally.

[littlequietguy]

Elan and Haley. The hooked up. They got separated. They took over the comic.1


Elan is worse. Ever since it was implied that he'll be the only one to get a happy ending, I've grown absolutly sick of him.2 More Durkon, more V, More Roy (a.k.a the person I've always felt is supposed to be the main character), and don't kill off Belkar. The Oracle should be wrong occasionally, and I've always felt that future predictions shouldn't be 100% accurate. Why do all my favorite characters in works of fiction get killed off? It's just like Serenity all over again (oh come on, you knew someone was gong to get killed off in that movie.)3 He utterly dominates every comic he appears in. I barely saw anything going on with the others during the Island ark, and that stupid love triangle didn't help.4
I know this seems like trolling, but I just want to be reassured. I, Shirley5, am not the only one who feels this way, and I just want to share my opinion and hear what you think.

None of the following is meant to be insulting.
1- They didn't take over the comic at all. Belkar, Shojo and V have gotten attention since then! (not Durkon because of course, Durkon NEVER gets attention!!:smalltongue:)
2 How can you not like the happy ending prediction?!? I mean really you can't even judge it because it hasn't even finished yet you won't hate it when it's pulled of in some masterful thoughtful way. Also you spelled absolutley wrong.:smallconfused:
3 Okay Roy is the main character it's just a break from him. A breaf respite from the main goal is common in books no? Also, did you just slip a pleasedon'tletBelkardie in their. What does that have to do with what you were origanally saying? About predictions not always being true I think you are right but actually predictions coming true in unexpected ways is more narratively logical.
4- umm Stupid? how is it stupid their was a speech given by Elan that provided tons of insight about his character. A defeat of a major villain. And an incredibly, super duper, kickass, better than better, touchingly, amazingly, tear dropping, perfect, flawless, astounding, character developing death.
5- spelled surely wrong!:smallfurious::smallfurious:

*panting* know I'm going to play that answer a question with a question game... It will be fun...

[Lerky]

Whatever happened to sharing the spotlight? The Greysky City arc is pretty good with giving the other characters time on panel, but it's still pretty obviously a way to get Haley's backstory a bit fleshed outSaying that is like saying that when Nale came into the comic, the story was all of sudden all about Elan and his backstory and brother, which it clearly wasn't. On a side note: of course it's a way to get Haley's backstory fleshed out! We can't just have a theif who was in the theives guild and than just end like that. If the comic doesn't have arcs like this there would be no comic!

Elan is worse. Ever since it was implied that he'll be the only one to get a happy ending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html), I've grown absolutly sick of him.well Kish is right. He isn't the only one with a happy ending. The Oracle said "For you (here's the key part) at least"
at the least: Elan's happy. However the orcale never said "you alone" or anything of the sort.


I want the other characters to get something too, dammit! More Durkon, more V, More Roy (a.k.a the person I've always felt is supposed to be the main character), The character well most likely get more in the end. And Roy is the main character, the story revolves around him. That's why when you look at the comics for OOTS there's a picture of him on the banner.


And lampshading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0580.html) it doesn't help one bit. The story's about her, and how she had to deal with her own guild. It really says something that if she hadn't followed Celia there, none of this would have happened.
yes. The story is about her and the guild alone. Has nothing to do with:
an evil necromancer who turned into a Lich and wants to try and free a evil demigod-like being to try and rule the world with a goblin cleric by his side while they lead a hobgoblin army to destory the world and the only people to defeat them are a bunch of rag-tag adventurers and their leader who has recently died because the group split up due to an accident and has to fulfill his father's Blood Oath of Vengence before the power-mad lich who isn't named Xykon destorys the entire existance and perhaps the gods themselves!In reality that is the story. This is just a random arc to keep people interested and on the edge of their seats.


and don't kill off Belkar. The Oracle should be wrong occasionally, and I've always felt that future predictions shouldn't be 100% accurate. Why do all my favorite characters in works of fiction get killed off?hey, who said the Orcale would be right? He said "Belkar will draw his last breath" that sounds oddly specific to me, I think something's up. And chances are Belkar won't die for a loooooong time. Don't expect it to be the next strip. For my theory on this:
Belkar will be saved by Roy because Roy actually remembers everything, which isn't pointless. He will know when two years go by and be extra protective of Belkar and might even save him. Either that or in his protectivness he somehow kills Belkar, that's usually how these things work


He utterly dominates every comic he appears in. I barely saw anything going on with the others during the Island ark, and that stupid love triangle didn't help.I find it odd that in a thread where you say that Haley and Elan are hogging the spotlight you mention that Belkar "dominates every comic". Ever consider Belkar might be just as much a limelight hog as Haley or Elan? Perhaps even more, you just think he's more badass.


while giving us a good reason to buy your "Orgin of Personal Computers" book.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Well, I'll start out like this: It's Orgin of PLAYER CHARACTERS! Not a Microsoft-made computer. Also I can't believe you would take that joke seriously! The giant isn't forcing us to get the book, it makes pretty good sense even if you haven't read the book.

[Assassin89]

Elan is a Bard/ Dashing Swordsman. I am pretty sure that the role of such a character is to be in the spot light, unless it is someone else's story.

[JaxGaret]

The Oracle should be wrong occasionally

The whole point of have an oracle is that they're always right, but there's always room for interpretation.


, and I've always felt that future predictions shouldn't be 100% accurate.

They wouldn't be future predictions if they weren't 100% correct. They would just be guesses.


that stupid love triangle

There was no love triangle. One party has to have feelings for both the other parties involved for it to be a love triangle.

[OOTS_Supporter]

How could you not get what was happening in the Island Arc with everyone else?

V definitely had a important part, wearing HER/HIMself out by trying to find Haley and Roy.

[Cpt. Soup]

This may have been mentioned numerous times over the course of several eras in this websites history. As I see it each character encompassed a parody of a DnD gamer archetype. While that was just in the beginning and things have elaborated since, the order of the stick still seems to have a basic connection with these archetypes. They aren't fully encompassed by their types and show gleans of each in

While annoying, Elan's stepping into the spotlight seems in keeping with the roleplayer archetype. Haley, as another poster mentioned, had an unresolved backstory just aching to burst out inappropriately in the middle of a campaign. She's in much the same camp as Elan, indulging in dull love plot when there's undead to slay. But to be fair Roy is dead and it would be extremely boring to watch him float around after the first few strips.

Roy is a character that just just wants to get on with the campaign. Indulging in side quests and backstory is great and all but so long as it all serves to bring him further to the climax. Roy is the character that just wants to break the door down and slay the orc guarding the treasure chest.

V is the brains of the party, the elf's only concern is to be prepared for any and all challenges and threats to the party. V's failure to protect Haley lead to I suppose a mental breakdown for the wizard. The wizard manages to remain unknown and pretty much shuts down any attempts to expand on a backstory or even roleplay at all, after all its rather pointless compared to being prepared for a myriad of obstacles that may hinder the order at every turn.

Belkar stands most blatantly as a parody of all that is munchkin. We're even reminded of this when his lucid vision of Sojin advises him to tone it down a bit so as not to get kicked out of the party. I think he's fine as he is, killing things and making crude remarks from the peanut gallery.

The giant seems to have poured as much boring as possible into Durkon, aside from amusing dwarven quirks he's rather dull. throughout the entire comic he managed to remain absurdly neutral, but then theres little you want from a healer beyond a constant stream of healing spells. The healer, much like the baseman provides constant support for the rest of the band but ultimately is overshadowed, Durkon seems to be quite comfortable with this, content to let others lead.

It isn't so much that Elan and Haley are stealing the spotlight as the others aren't as interested in taking it, except for Roy of course who wants to get things moving.

This is my opinion at least.

[adibobo]

There was no love triangle. One party has to have feelings for both the other parties involved for it to be a love triangle.

No that could have actualy been a love triangle, look at this page, i think it would be tipe 4,http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TriangRelations
but i dont think it was a love triangle, because it never got the chance to evolve into one, terkla was killed too soon

[Zordrath]

With Roy gone, Haley and Elan have become the leaders of what's left of the order. While making sense in Haley's case (the only other options are Belkar and Celia), the extreme focus on Elan in the Kubota arc did annoy me a little. It made sense that we didn't see that much of Vaarsuvius because he was below deck, studying, but I think it's time to finally flesh out Durkon a little. The last time he did something meaningful was when he crushed the Huecuva, since then it's mostly been off-panel healing and taking some swings at the demon before V crushed it with a few spells.

So, yeah, Elan is doing a little too much spotlight-hogging for my taste, but it's not the case with Haley. Fifteen strips ago I would have spoken differently, but as we now know what the continued diminishing of Belkar awesomeness was leading up to... :smallamused:

[Kaytara]

Well, the fact that Elan and Haley are leading directly behind Roy in terms of character appearances suggests that the OP may have a point. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90191)

I agree that Elan and Haley seem to do a great deal of spotlight hogging. However, I'm not convinced it's too much, because what the others lack in quantity, they tend to make up in quality. Vaarsuvius, for example, usually doesn't steal every scene he appears in, but at the end of the day, he's the one who blasts the dragon and petrifies the giant devil, etc. The same can be said for Durkon, whose assistance has often arrived at critically important times. And, well, Belkar, you know Belkar. If anything, it's him one can accuse of spotlight hogging, because he has both Crowning Moments of Awesome, usually in a lot of bloodshed, as well as gags and punchlines.
Compared to that, Haley and Elan may get a great deal of focus but usually aren't in the spotlight during whatever climax comes up.

I agree that I would've liked to see Durkon's personality be elaborated on during the arc after the battle. He seems a bit gruffer and more spiteful than usual, more like his old, pre-meeting-Roy self, but aside from that he gets far too little focus.

[pendell]

Couple thoughts:

1) Roy is still the main character. He gets strips even when he's DEAD, for cryin' out loud, which no one else gets except ghost dad. We even get strips of him in the afterlife.

2) I gritted my teeth through the entire island sequence , and although the conclusion was satisfying, the truth is that none of the characters had a common goal or focus. V was trying to find Haley. Durkon was grumbling about going on to Kraagor's gate.

Without Elan, there would have been no story worth telling, which means we would have lost track of that entire half of the order for real-time months. Elan does what a bard does best -- keep the audience entertained while waiting for Roy to be resurrected and Haley's plotline to wrap up.

3) The Giant tells us that the 'happy ending' comment was put in to give readers a ray of hope as the comic took a darker turn. The Giant is a clever storyteller, but this is a heroic story, not an anti-heroic one a la 8-bit theater. He was afraid the audience would think that the story would end badly, and he wanted to give a bit of hope and reassurance without killing all the drama. Whether he was successful or not remains to be seen.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kish]

Durkon was grumbling about going on to Kraagor's gate.
? Where was that?

[Ghastly Epigram]

? Where was that?

504 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html) and 505. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0505.html)

[Boogastreehouse]

As I see it each character encompassed a parody of a DnD gamer archetype.

I like this. I think I've had that thought in the back of my head, but I didn't recognize it 'till you said something.

One of the reasons I like this comic so much is because the characters remind me of the group I played D&D with in high school. I'll bet I'm not the only one, because, as you observed, they are really universal gamer archetypes. I know that there aren't really players controlling the actions of the characters in the stick-universe, but you can still tell what players would be sitting high above their little table-top world. To add my own observations (based on gamers I've known throughout the years) to your already well thought-out assessment:

Roy is the player focused on the mission objectives (and, along with V, is probably really into tinkering with his character build to get the most out of it). He's the team-player and the one who understands that your back-story is supposed to move the main story along.

Elan is—as you say—the role-player; the other players probably made him add a combat-useful prestige class, because he didn't really care if his character was effective. He's probably sketching his character while he waits for his initiative to come up. He's also the one who doesn't notice that he missed his turn.

Haley started out as the treasure-seeker player, who mainly measured her success in the game by her big bag o' loot, but after seeing how much fun Elan was having at role-playing she decided to write in a back-story (that still involved her needing to acquire treasure!).

Durkon is the boring friend, who's really only playing because he wants to hang out with his friends. His idea of character development is mostly cliches, or silly traits like his fear of trees. He's playing the cleric because nobody else wanted to, and he's the one who falls asleep on the couch while waiting for his turn. He's also the one drinking a beer, while everyone else around the table is drinking soda.

V is the tactician. All that matters is defeating the monsters (and complaining about the flaws in the rules). The character wants to prove he/she is the master of the arcane; the player wants to show his friends how brilliant his strategies are. While Roy tries to make his character good but well-rounded (no dump stats, I suspect), V is a min-maxing munchkin.

And Belkar, like V, is really only concerned with kicking-butt (and cracking jokes), but without really worrying about the boring aspect of putting together a well-rounded character. Tracking? Wisdom score? How will these things help his kill things? He really just wants to take out his aggression at the gaming table. He's also the sort who suddenly realizes that he forgot to update his character sheet... from three levels ago.

I'll add Celia to the group; she's the girlfriend of one of the players (probably the DM), and she agreed to play because she was allowed to be a pretty fairy. She's not interested in learning how to play the technical part of the game at all. Instead she applies her real-world personality to her character, and is difficult because she knows she can get away with it.

All right, this has just been a long, stupid exercise in work-avoidance. I'm outta here.

[Stormwolf]

The problem is not that any one character is 'hogging the spotlight' - it's just that it takes so long this this format to present each story arc. If it was being presented in book form you'd get maybe one every 6 months and you'd read it in a couple of days. The story would all be there laid out - it's the inability to turn the page that makes webcomics both so addictive and so frustrating sometimes.

Each of the characters is worthy of development. While Roy was alive his storyline was always going to dominate the others. We all want the story to move along, we're all itching to see the next comic and the next chapter, but it can't move faster than Rich can draw the comics and pencil (or ink) in the details of the story; although I'm sure that he has a very good idea of where he wants to take it and how he's going to get the PCs there, he's still got to write the dialogue and make it fit the plot and make it amusing and if you think it's an easy job feel free to try it yourself.

[whatchamacallit]

Really haven't seen a character I didn't like, Miko was a bit annoying but I was still choked up by her end. I do wish we'd get more on Durkon though.

[Deme]

OK, Yes: Elan gets a lot of arc-time. So does Haley. So does Roy.
A lot of people were complaining during "let's explore heaven" time in the exact way they were complaining during "Therkla wants to jump Elan's bones -- ONOES SHE R DEADLES!" time.

Belkar, up until this point, has gotten no real arc-time to himself, but pretty much owns the vast majority of the strips he's in. In a certain way, he hogs the spotlight to the extreme: in that he takes it away from characters who are actually involved in the STORY at the moment. This isn't automatically a bad thing, because he's normally pretty funny. Funny is good.

V likewise got one small, not very developing little sub-arc, and a major position in a very developing sub-arc. He tends to own the climaxes, but otherwise hasn't gotten a lot of attention. See Durkon.

Durkon doesn't get a lot of attention, though he'll frequently own climaxes when V does not. He's basically, at present, as a character-person, just waiting for the next thing to happen: he's going along with the quest not because it fulfills any personal goals as far as we know, but just because it was the right thing to do and Roy's his friend. He's still waiting for his story to come up, and I hope it does.


Seriously, though...While Elan and Haley are the king and queen of the sub-plot, and maybe that's not 100% fair, we kind of forget something...the MAIN plot, which we aren't in right now, and that should be noted, BELONGS to Roy. Roy is the main plot, the main plot is Roy. Nothing but. The main plot is Roy's quest to stop Xykon, and the other characters are involved. Roy is the lead, the king of spotlight-town. If there's a really major-plot critical moment, it will belong to Roy. He also gets a good handful of smaller sub-arcs, so don't forget that: they're usually less important to his character than Haley or Elan's sub-arcs, though, because his character can, will, and should be involved and developed in the MAJOR PLOT. He don't need no stinkin' sub-plots!

...In short, a more accurate description of what happened may be: Elan and Haley hooked up. Azure City Fell, Roy died. Main plot was put on "hold" for a while. Sub-plots started. Elan and Haley took control of the sub-plots.

*Yeah, my numbers are totally made up.

[Jonathan327]

while giving us a good reason to buy your "Orgin of Personal Computers" book. (The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it. I'm suprised I haven't been sued into oblivion yet.)

You get the webcomic for free (on a website with zero external ads) and you whine about referencing an optional book? Really?

[King of Nowhere]

The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it

That would apply to me as well, except that it depends on HOW you try to sell something to me.
If you write, for free, an amazing webcomic as oots, you may convince me.
And, if the giant really wanted to use low marketing strategies, he could just have put in the books some important facts needed to understand the online comic, which is not the case since he made a point of summarizing everything that is needed in the online comic.
Anyway, I bought the books one year ago. Best spent money on my life. If I could find a way to pirate them, I would have bought them anyway, because I feel Rich really deserves my money for the entertainment he gives me.

For the other points, the other posters have already posted everything I wanted to say.
No offence intended.

[FoE]

(The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it. I'm suprised I haven't been sued into oblivion yet.) And lampshading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0580.html) it doesn't help one bit.

Do you apply this philosophy to every part of your life? How are you able to watch TV or drive down the street? A single commercial or billboard would prevent you from ever buying that product again, except perhaps out of a van in some back alley.

Rich can't live off grass and sleep on park benches. He needs to make a living somehow, and if he can't do so off of this webcomic, he'll have to find another way to do it. If he has to get another job, that will probably mean less time for Order of the Stick.

You don't have to buy his merchandise, but you shouldn't try to rip him off.

[Trizap]

now, now, don't feed the troll everyone.

[Assassin89]

now, now, don't feed the troll everyone.

*feeds the troll alchemist's fire and acid*
Every character has a role in the story. Just because that one particular character is the subject of a few strips does not mean that character is hogging the spotlight. The spotlight will shift to different characters as the plot is resolved

[evileeyore]

(The more you try to sell me something, the harder I try to find a way to pirate it. I'm suprised I haven't been sued into oblivion yet.)

Trying to drum up reasons to make piracy "okay" = Lame.
Giving me a great reason to put someone on ignore = Awesome.






Ignore list +1.

[JaxGaret]

Believe me, I'm no stranger to piracy.

I also own every single book that Rich has ever published or been involved with.

[itsmeyouidiot]

5- spelled surely wrong!:smallfurious::smallfurious:

I find it ironic that you mock my spelling. I've highlighted your errors below.

HEIL DIE GRAMMAR FUHRER!


None of the following is meant to be insulting.
1- They didn't take over the comic at all. Belkar, Shojo and V have gotten attention since then! (not Durkon because of course, Durkon NEVER gets attention!!:smalltongue:)
2 How can you not like the happy ending prediction?!? I mean really you can't even judge it because it hasn't even finished yet you won't hate it when it's pulled of in some masterful thoughtful way. Also you spelled absolutley wrong.:smallconfused:
3 Okay Roy is the main character it's just a break from him. A breaf respite from the main goal is common in books no? Also, did you just slip a pleasedon'tletBelkardie in their. What does that have to do with what you were origanally saying? About predictions not always being true I think you are right but actually predictions coming true in unexpected ways is more narratively logical.
4- umm Stupid? how is it stupid their was a speech given by Elan that provided tons of insight about his character. A defeat of a major villain. And an incredibly, super duper, kickass, better than better, touchingly, amazingly, tear dropping, perfect, flawless, astounding, character developing death.

*panting* know I'm going to play that answer a question with a question game... It will be fun...

I see your point though. I was under a lot of stress that night, and I probably had a little too much to drink, so I was exaggerating a bit.

I still abide by my previous statements, though, Just not as much.

[JaxGaret]

Miko was a bit annoying but I was still choked up by her end.

Tears of joy? :smallwink:

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Drinking + Posting = Bad. Please don't encourage piracy, especially not piracy of OotS material. Please don't insult others, and that includes calling them trolls. (Really, that exact insult is in the Forum Rules as a prohibited flame. This thread is staying locked.