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Thread: [3.5] Flowdancer (Model V)

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    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Flowdancer (Model V)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    Pre-posting the thread was more about my personal convenience, as to not have to translate from site to text to site, other than that I wanted to set up the structure in BB code and experiment with it in preview, this makes things look crisp and tidy as they come out, which was one of the biggest shortcomings of model IV.
    Understood. The last one was difficult to fathom at times.

    This model's goal is to create a raw text copy and then phase that into a graphically stylized copy, which is either going to follow the format below or be moved into Model VI.
    Here's where I'm confused...have you actually altered the class at all? If not, why the change in "Model?" Do you expect comments and critique, or are you just using the forums as a giant notepad to transition into a graphical presentation?

    Class-Related Comments: I'm still confused as to the decision to make a single class out of this. By your own definition in the last thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman
    The Flowdancer is a master of movement, conjuration, alteration, divination, mitigation, combat, elements, time, mind, gravity, sound, energy, fludity, chaos and order, shadow and light. In essence, physics and matter manipulation stemming from her own physical movement.

    The choices are endless, but the flavors revolve around north and southeastern martial arts, circus and dance, music, weapon form, weapon dance and real life dervishes, and due to popularity some professions from the game Guild Wars, a minmaxing build-based sandbox MMO released years ago, and while I'm planning to import around 800-1000 maneuvers from it, it's not the focus of flavor.

    This class, as most homebrew tends to be, is around what I enjoy or find interesting and in real life I'm a professional fire performer, musician, martial artist, turning performance volunteer and circus performer (as well as physiology/anatomy/medicine student going into the military as med tech//field med -- going to work in that later which is funneled into int), so most of this kind of circles around my life and interests-- the actual flavor has been left blank because the main purpose of this project was to provide maximum choice...
    I've taken the liberty of emphasizing many of the things you stated gave inspiration for and/or were the focus of the class. Note that many of these have no relation to each other at all. That's not a bad thing for you (good on you for doing so many things! ), but it's not a good thing for class design.

    The issue with cramming this into a single class is that it feels incredibly bloated. The Chameleon and the Factotum have the "do everything" angle covered, and both cover it well (because they do it simply and without requiring thousands of choices and/or extra rules for everything). D&D, however, isn't a system for a single class of infinite variety, especially when you try to apply standardized class features onto something with that much variety. Your goal seems to aim for a class versatile enough to build any concept out of, but all that really becomes is a generic, class-less system.

    In short, in D&D 3.5e (and 4e, but that's neither here nor there), the Base Class concept exists to define an approximate character role. As you seem to be envisioning it, the Flowdancer appears to do the opposite, which runs contrary to D&D 3.5e and all its class conventions. While this isn't bad per se, it does mean that to accomplish that you'd need to do away with all the standardized abilities that detract from freedom of choice...which in this case means any non-selectable, non-generic class abilities (such as the dance, disguise, and other themed class features). Doing away with those weakens the class concept in turn, until you're left with either a bunch of generic class features from which you assemble a blank-slate class, or you're left with an overly bloated class concept that carries around far more options than it will ever need.

    Alternatively, you might want to consider more (and thus more narrowly conceptualized) classes in this project. Trying to cram all of this into one class isn't a good idea, in my opinion. You'll end up working at cross purposes. Further, one of the worst things a class can do is to be overly complicated: a number of players disdain Wizards and Sorcerers due to the time and effort it takes to assemble their spell-lists and keep track of everything, and sorting through even more options (for a class which can, conceivably, cover any role in almost any fashion) seems incredibly daunting even to a veteran player like myself.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-09-20 at 06:18 PM.


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