Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
Here's where I'm confused...have you actually altered the class at all? If not, why the change in "Model?"
Model means a fundamental change in the class, and how it works, it's gone from having no system and has drifted to something parallel to ToB in model V.

If there is a model VI it will likely be as a re-released due to a PDF format for download as a finished product.

Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
Class-Related Comments: I'm still confused as to the decision to make a single class out of this. --many of these have no relation to each other at all. That's not a bad thing for you (good on you for doing so many things! ), but it's not a good thing for class design.

Your goal seems to aim for a class versatile enough to build any concept out of, but all that really becomes is a generic, class-less system.

In short, in D&D 3.5e (and 4e, but that's neither here nor there), the Base Class concept exists to define an approximate character role. As you seem to be envisioning it, the Flowdancer appears to do the opposite, which runs contrary to D&D 3.5e and all its class conventions. While this isn't bad per se, it does mean that to accomplish that you'd need to do away with all the standardized abilities that detract from freedom of choice...which in this case means any non-selectable, non-generic class abilities (such as the dance, disguise, and other themed class features). Doing away with those weakens the class concept in turn, until you're left with either a bunch of generic class features from which you assemble a blank-slate class, or you're left with an overly bloated class concept that carries around far more options than it will ever need.

Alternatively, you might want to consider more (and thus more narrowly conceptualized) classes in this project. Trying to cram all of this into one class isn't a good idea, in my opinion. You'll end up working at cross purposes. Further, one of the worst things a class can do is to be overly complicated: a number of players disdain Wizards and Sorcerers due to the time and effort it takes to assemble their spell-lists and keep track of everything, and sorting through even more options (for a class which can, conceivably, cover any role in almost any fashion) seems incredibly daunting even to a veteran player like myself.
Well, that's a very valid point.

As far as I see it, different base classes do have the convention of running with the role mainly due to a few things:

Array Preference, Core Mechanic, Magic/Saves/HD/Skillpoint/Skills balance

Now, let's consider that the flowdancer gains 5 disciplines (you can pick from the 20+ provided in the flowdancer source material, 8+ from the supported forum source material and 9 from the tome of battle, these are going to be termed "Supported Disciplines")
Supported Disciplines add a class feature each to the flowdancer (possibly hybrid abilities for more than one as there are plans to expand disciplines into Hybrid Disciplines opening up even more specific options, but we'll see how far that goes), this makes up the class features and flavors the character contextually with the maneuvers provided.
Supported Disciplines are split into a few stats each, I'm planning to give them about a 3 attribute split and will be varied among the source material.
Because of both the varied class features, and that the matching features fit the maneuvers and the array of the split, the Array Preference balance is dealt with.
The class feature provides a smaller core mechanic rather than a large one, these are planned to provide a substantial effect on the player. This takes care of core mechanic.
The balance of magical(or utility) weighed with saves, total hit point and raw damage pool or mitigation, skills/bonuses/skilltricks/skillbalances are all dealt with by preference of the creator as well.

This is not about being able to create a ToB T1 or T2 character, this is more about creating a character who has the maximum amount of dynamic ability.

Wizard, Ozodrin, these are classes people enjoy because a wizard can learn dozens of spells and change them, an ozodrin is spore + dnd, and a flowdancer, a flowdancer is 35 ToB flavors in one, and you get to add on a new flavor depending on whatever your in the mood for when the time comes, instead of re-making the character or being forced to multi-class into something weaker than the whole.

Now, I totally understand that to an experienced player-- ESPECIALLY an experienced CO'er this class could make your head explode by looking at it, but thats mainly due to some people's habit of looking at the character from the perspective of level 20 or gestalt 15.

I need to clear up a few points about myself and my experience with the game to show some perspective:
First of all, I do not ever plan to be level 20 in any game I play, to be brutally honest I see DnD between level 4-17, 4 as a great starting point, and 17 where the game should hit it's climax. I will play lower than 4, it's slower but nice still, but I probably wouldn't be interested starting even as high as 15 unless it was closer to a one-off.
Secondly, I run VERY detailed VERY complex characters-- my DM currently outright refuses to play my characters while I'm away on the grounds that they "look like an F-16 cockpit", mostly due to making ridiculously complex and versatile characters.
This class leaks out a little bit of that, an an expression of the need to expand a character beyond it's simple existence of what that character was beforehand, in a large number of possible ways beyond the confines of the class.

The PLAN is to have 5x9x20 source maneuvers (900) available through this content, another 8+ homebrew and the 9 core disciplines from ToB, aprox. 600 maneuvers. This does not include the addition of Hybrid Disciplines which is a concept around mixing disciplines and class features together to unlock specialized disciplines as a progression-unlock.

In total this source is planned to have 1500 supported maneuvers, so clearly ridiculous amounts of combinations are possible, and whats more is that this is several times the amount of existing content readily compiled, making this into a sourcebook of it's own-- eventually moving to PDF.

Because of this, the flowdancer is not only an embodiment of all ToB, but also the central rung to attach endless keys of content to, creating a bridge of centralized homebrew to be formatted into a large-scale professional-grade end product.