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Thread: There's archers, and then there's THIS.

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    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    California, USA

    Default Re: There's archers, and then there's THIS.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
    How do you get 40 attacks? I thought haste only added one attack? That would be 4x2 +1. 9 attacks.
    I also don't think enemies on your challenge rating would be clumped that closely. DMs donít make such enemies go on zergling rushes, they make them attack on different sides, or at least far away enough that you'd hit two at most with an area of effect attack(I know the ones I fought always were) like rain of arrows, which is purposed specifically for taking down tons of lower level enemies, which WOULD be clumped closely together on a zergling rush. Also, you hit your allies with it. When fighting enemies on your level, there's always a tank in close combat duking it out with the enemy, and you can't use rain of arrows or risk hitting him.
    As you've said, that's very situational, and I think will happen rarely enough that it doesn't make the volley archer too much of a nuker.
    • A level 15 True Archer has a Base Attack bonus of +20/+15/+10/+5 (15 from levels, 5 from Eagle Eyes). We are currently at 4 attacks.
    • Haste adds an additional attack. (5 attacks)
    • Rapid Shooting doubles that. (10 attacks)
    • Multishot allows us 3 additional arrows per attack, for a total of 4 arrows with each attack, thanks to 20 BAB. (40 attacks)
    • And with just one more level we jump to 60 attacks in total!
    • At level 20 you're looking at 84 arrows!!! And you don't even need to use Rain of Arrows, that's optional.

    Hitting your allies is next to a non-effect, as the area it covers is fairly small. CR appropriate enemies at this level will often be at least large sized (2x2 squares), often larger. And even with those that are not Large, nothing says they have to be at the center of the Rain of Arrows, meaning you can aim to have them on an edge, keeping your melee allies perfectly safe. Additionally, your allies (but not your enemies) will be aware of your preference to rain down arrows and should move accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
    As for such a broken weapon, I don't think a DM who's been briefed on the True Archer (and he would have to be, with this being a homebrew and all), would allow you to use such a weapon knowing the carnage you could cause wielding it with this class.
    Those are hardly broken abilities to place on any weapon, including a bow. I'd much prefer the Splitting enhancement (Champions of Ruin).

    • Marrowcrushing is from Book of Vile Darkness, and it is essentially Wounding, except it's a +3 bonus can can be multiplied on crits.
    • Souldrinking is also in BoVD and is a more expensive version of Enervating.
    • Seeking is an enhancement that negates miss chances.
    • Blood Seeking is from Complete Warrior and allows you to ignore cover when shooting.
    • Wraithstrike is a spell that only applies to melee attacks, so he's off there.

    I don't know why he chose to go with the BoVD abilities rather than the SRD and MIC ones. Presumably for the crit procs.

    Regardless, a DM shouldn't have to saw no to weapon abilities as common and balanced as those. The problem lies with the class ability to fire an absurd amount of arrows.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
    I also read the effects for power attack. And no, with Overdraw you do not get 2 points of damage for every point of attack penalty for the bow.
    Then you need to remove "as power attack." Because as writen, that means you get the increased return on damage, since all bows are two-handed weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
    Is it really that bad, though? I keep on hearing about wizards being overpowered to the ninth degree, specifically, they're 'flame-spewing apocalypses in human form'. Is what this class can do enough to challenge a high level wizard of his level?
    I mean, it's SUPPOSED to be near the level of a wizard focused completely on battle spells in the carnage it can cause (and just a squishy, if not more since it doesn't get defense spells *cough*magearmor*cough*). If the true archer can cause MORE destruction however, then there's something wrong, and the entire class may have to be nerfed or, god forbid, scrapped completely.
    Do not fight fire with fire. While some people prefer to have their balance point extremely high (like Frank and K's stuff), that leads to more extreme rocket tag. While you have to brew for your preferred style of play, the commonly targeted balance point is around tier 3. Also note that while Wizards and other tier 1 classes (tier system and explanation) are capable of breaking the game six ways from Sunday, that is often on Theoretical Optimization (TO). Practical Optimization (PO) is much much more common among those that actually know how to optimize, and will often be scaled to be appropriate to the rest of the parties power level.

    Also, mage armor is workable but unexciting as far as defensive options go for wizards. And a wizard who is focused on damage is often far less effective than they otherwise would be, unless you're going for a mailman style wizard.
    Last edited by MammonAzrael; 2012-03-16 at 01:45 AM.